[thechat] Jan 18 peace march

aardvark roselli at earthlink.net
Tue Jan 21 16:50:01 CST 2003


> From: Erika Meyer <emeyer at lclark.edu>
>
> >you can dismiss the comment with that statement, but do you agree
> >that as a parent it's your responsibility to help educate your child?
>
> of course.  Somehow it seems like a non sequitur though.  I have a
> responsibility to educate my child, yes.  As does a school (aka
> educational institution).  And it's not like we're talking about a
> scientifically controversial issue.  I've never heard of a doctor or
> dentist saying: 'this child needs to eat more refined sugars.'

should've met my doctor... you know, my brother, who was born a 40-
year-old man mentally, was 'diagnosed' as hyperactive some 20 years
ago... the teacher recommended a doctor visit, the doctor recommended
ritalin, and my parents, still new to the concept, even considered
it, before they found that the teacher just didn't deal well with
kids that had minds of their own... teachers have an unfortunate
power in that regard, which is now shifting off topic (again)...

> Childhood obesity and related diseases are growing, according to news
> reports... so it would seem to follow that responsible schools (which
> are in-theory institutions interested in the well-being of children)
> would lean toward discouraging the trend toward consumption of low
> value foods.  Or at least would avoid encouraging the trend.

but *instead* of parents taking responsibility, we have obese people
suing McDonald's for being fat... we have all sorts of apologists
telling us that thin-body images are a detriment to our children --
as we sit in a populace that is fatter (and fatter younger) than ever
before...

that happy medium hasn't been reached, and it has nothing to do with
whether or not it appears in the schools... what you're seeing is the
effects *outside* of schools... if parents stepped up, then it
wouldn't matter where the marketing happens...

don't blame McDs or the rest, they're doing what any corporation will
try to do -- market... that, in and of itself, is not evil...

so, instead, take the money, and continue to educate your children...

> I don't think the schools should hire child molesters, either (to get
> a bit extreme...) -- with the idea that I should be teaching my child
> to avoid being molested.  I'll teach her that, yes.  But I still
> expect the school to take measures to keep her environment as safe as
> possible.

sadly, the restrictions on prior convictions and things like that all
too often have come from litigation -- people have sued schools after
learning about weird hiring practices, and only then do those rules
make into law... hell, laws on testing for 'sick building syndrome'
came into effect locally only when my school was shut down from kids
getting sick...

do you not hire convicted felons at all? what about felons from pot
use? they're still a felon, after all... the rules are so full of
holes it's hard to be certain they're any good...

i expect the school to take those measures as well, but i also know
there are cracks and can be certain to keep my eyes open...

> >i would agree, *if* i thought it was possible... sadly, there's no
> >way to eliminate teacher bias on subjects like politics, morality,
> >and many other facets of life...
>
> this is true.  That's also a reason why political actions can be
> instructive for children.  She's asking me, "why are they saying hey
> hey ho ho George Bush has got to go..." and I can at least give her
> the perspective of the chanters, why they are saying these things.
> With the underlying idea that there are many different opinions out
> there, that we don't have to buy everything that's being sold, either
> from the marchers or the teachers or the TV...

and i understand that you're not required to vocalize the underlying
idea that there are different viewpoints, or what they are, but
there's a difference between educating a child with a political
action (which i'd rather do from home, while watching it on tv,
should tear gas come into the mix because of some rowdy bonehead in
the front) and using a child as a political pawn... i'm not
suggesting you did that, because i didn't witness it, but i've seen
it happen so many times, that i recoil at the thought of children at
marches...

> >about brands of clothes -- those are marketed by the kids themselves,
> >and their parents buy into it (literally)... there is no protection
> >from branding, and hiding is futile...education is better...
>
> In general, I agree with you.

say it ain't so...

> >since when do kids worship teachers? most kids i knew, including me,
> >didn't even get along with their teachers...
>
> a lot of this has to do with a child's age and his/her teacher's
> abilities.

agreed... kids are good at sensing incompetence, and substitute
teachers...

>   A lot of my individual issues and disagreements with other parents
> have to do with the fact that her school is an elementary mixed with a
> middle school.  It seems to me in this case that they cater too much
> to the older children at the expense of the younger.

that i can see... i've seen similar around here...

> >again, schools have already faltered on that path... my entire
> >education can be characterized by under-educated left-wing teachers
> >with little grasp of reality outside the classroom...
>
> while I had right-wing whacko teachers... hmm...  I remember my 6th
> grade teacher railing against snail darters and the metrics system
> (1979-80).  And my 7th grade math teacher (80-81) going on about the
> greatness of his highness Ronald Reagan...

every american rails against the metric system... as for a math
teacher going on about reagan, it's not really his subject to teach,
although i probably would have enjoyed a class with him...

> >listen to my teacher talk about conservation when she drives a 76
> >buick electra to work?
>
> hehe.  I know a few like that.

but i also hate SUVs, too, so i'm certainly biased... oh, if only i
could have gotten the hybrid civic...

> >  school is *not* a safe and healthy place, it's simply the
> >first exposure children have to long-term challenge of life...
>
> hmm.... okay there's something to that POV...

yeah, i also take it a few steps further when it comes to graduation
from high school...

there should be no high school graduation parties or ceremonies...
graduating should be expected...

there should be public humiliation spectacles for those who don't
graduate high school... at least those who had the opportunity...

> >group who wants to remove things like dodgeball because throwing a
> >foam ball at another child is too traumatic... regardless of what
> >happens every morning in the school hallways...
>
> um... we used leather balls for dodgeball.

damn, i am *so* jealous... good spin? minimal drop?

> Remember "smear the queer"?  It was the most popular recess game in my
> elementary school.  My bro loved it.  My mom sure freaked out over
> that one.

we didn't have that one... i was usually immune to those games
because i a) fought back (but usually later, with a significant up to
the ante) and b) i could squirm away from any three people...

> >so, who's porn are we talking about? what you perceive as porn, or
> >what others perceive as porn? because you might be unwittingly
> >blocking out safe sex education with such a blanket statement...
>
> Unlike junk food sales, sex education usually involves parental
> permission slips.   And offers medically sound information.

well, hey, there you go... that's a potential solution... packing
your kid's lunch is akin to an anti-permission slip, right? and that
offers medically sound information... sounds like a win-win...

> I wish you were in the PTA.  You're more fun than the minivan moms.

and if this weren't publically archived, i'd love to tell you about
some of my other ideas...  you and i should join the same PTA -- we'd
scare the hell outta everyone else during these debates, and then
confuse them when we go out for coffee afterward...

--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151159/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1904151159






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