[thechat] A balance of opinion. - Iran

[Syed Zeeshan Haider]

From: "Madhu Menon"

> "An eye for an eye" must be the same justification the Saudis use when they
> saw off people's hands for theft. [1]

It's what Quran has said. But all punishments must be given on the proof of a
crime, with proper judicial procedure. I have written a lot on this matter
earlier.

> But that's not the point. Stoning in most cases is for *adultery* or even
> engaging in sex outside marriage. There's no crime committed there. It's an
> action between consenting adults. Adultery may be morally wrong to some
> people, but it's not criminal.

Maybe, it's true for you. But Islam has no place or tolerance for adultery.
Islam DOES consider it a crime. But proving the act of adultery is difficult
task because Islam has very strict laws for proving it. Therefore, in most cases
the "criminals" can save themselves by keeping their secret hidden.

> How many rapists have been stoned to death?

That's an irony. Because Islam has not been yet implemented in its true sense.

> >Anyhow, I have an open mind if any Islamic scholar provides me any solid
> >Islamic
> >proof against it.
>
> Proof against what? There can't be any "proof" for things humane or inhumane.
> Perhaps it's time that certain provisions in the holy books were abandoned
> to reflect the progress in human civilisation. This is supposed to be the
> 21st century.

I said "Islamic proof". A proof that the words "stoning to death" or "sangsaar"
in Urdu/Persian are JUST symbolic words for death penalty. Remember that this
punishment is ONLY for married people (not divorced or widows).

> >No offence, it is your own (westernised) perspective of seeing such things.
>
> Westernised? No, my perspective is my own. In my country, we don't stone
> anyone for sex outside marriage, and I don't live in a Western country.

You are in your country but you are not. It's 21st century, man. You have a big
country with many diverse cultures.

> >Please explain your point in detail.
>
> OK, I'll explain.
>
> If WomanX is not married and she has sex with another man, that too
> qualifies for the stoning punishment. No?
> In other words, sex before marriage is a sin.

Illegal sex by an unmarried person or a person without a spouse does NOT
qualifies for death penalty. It is ONLY for a person having a legally
sex-partner (spouse).

> The Sharia law considers any sex outside marriage to be illegal, doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

> >Ironically, it's right. Mostly, women are the victims of such punishments.
One
> >reason is that they provide the medical proofs of being engaged in sex.
>
> Or maybe they are just regarded as inferior to men.

Yes, but it has its roots in culture NOT religion. Islam has more strict laws
for men because they are physically superior to the women (I mean physically NOT
as a human). As humans, both are equal.

> Summary: French woman gets gang-raped by four men. Reports rape to police.
> One of the men admitted to having "consensual sex" with the woman, which
> made her, in the eyes of Dubai's judiciary, guilty of both adultery and
> making a false rape accusation. So she's now being held by the authorities.
>
> Oh yes, true justice.

As I already said, it's because of ignorance of people. They don't understand
Islam or Islamic law before implementing it. It is same as a car driver flying a
jet-plane.

> The fact that men and women seem to get along for the most part on this
> planet seems to indicate that these "scientists" need to do more research.
> The statistics are against you.

I have my own opinion and you have your own. I have once posted a link of such a
kind. May be some biologist or sexologist can help us.
--
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/