[Theforum] Re: [*dmin] #evolt on IRC

aardvark roselli at earthlink.net
Fri Dec 21 18:35:30 CST 2001

> From: "Warden, Matt" <mwarden at mattwarden.com>
> .jeff wrote:
> >the channel has our name on it.  i don't think it's too much to ask
> >that it properly represents us.
> Personally, I don't think it's too much to ask to have a laid-back,
> real-time place to chat that isn't hindered by doing every single
> thing "properly" and without humor that *might* be misconstrued by
> someone.. to have a place to chat with X-number of people in the room
> and not have it logged and archived for everyone to see. And, you're
> damn right that's because I have stuff to hide. I only feel

here's a very simple suggestion -- if you *truly* had stuff to hide, 
you'd say it behind closed doors (private channel, personal emails, 
AIM chat, Yahoo chat, etc.).... it's a public forum, and as such, 
you should expect that it get seen by all...

and given your desire to have all admin business open to the 
public, and given that the IRC channel has been known to conduct 
evolt business, logging just seemed like a good idea...

> comfertable talking about certain things in my personal life with
> people like dan, michele, garrett, etc., not with Joe Googleuser. That
> should be okay. I shoudn't have to create a separate room with ICQ or
> something so that it isn't publically archived.

why not?  that's what i'd do....

when you talk about deep scalp itch, do you do it out loud in grand 
central station, or do you do it quietly with your friends in the lobby, 
or at your house, or on the phone?  how about my favorite 
statement, "it's funny, i hate the itching, but i don't mind the 
swelling..."  do you really wanna hear that in a public forum?  ick.

i'm sorry, but your argument to use a public forum to have private 
conversations is... well... not making sense to me...

have personal conversations, but don't try to impose privacy on a 
forum that is public by nature...  you've always asked admin if we 
had stuff to hide by not opening up the admin archives... you've 
admitted above you have stuff to hide... you are putting us in a 
predicament now by trying to parlay a public forum into your 
personal chat room...

> The argument that it should be archived like everything else on evolt
> doesn't make sense. That's why this thing came to be: it's a safe
> place to discuss things with the x-number of people who are in the
> room. If it's just like everything else on evolt, what's the point of
> having it?

if it's got the evolt.org "brand" on it, then it can easily be 
considered, to outsiders, as an evolt.org sanctioned group (and as 
far as i know, it is)... i doubt you can deny that if you look at it from 
outside all of our positions here as active admin/forumers... that 
being said, yeah, if it doesn't match the tone of the rest of our stuff, 
i think that's unfortunate at best...

as for the point of having it, it wasn't created specifically so you 
could have private conversations about private things... that it 
happens is fine (but if you think they'll stay private, you're missing 
the point of 'public forum')... it was created as an extension of the 
evolt.org community, so people could chat in an open, friendly 
community and so people could get help in a more real-time 

if this is *not* why it was created, please correct me...

> I like the humor. I like the tight sense of community that makes it
> seem safe to talk about certain things.

it can be safe, and it should be safe -- for *everyone*... if martin or 
john walk into that room, they shouldn't feel unwelcome... and 
that's not how it is right now... why should they be excluded from 
that public community?  go to your own room if you want to 
exclude people...

if martin was a wanker, so be it, but making fun of people behind 
their back is childish -- do it to their face, like i do... i don't want to 
see childish crap when i go looking for help on web stuff... i don't 
mind, however, a good brawl (but that's just me)...

> And I use it often. Most of you don't. Please don't mess up this thing
> that I use.

and what if we all started using it?  it *is* a public forum, and your 
opinions, as an admin of evolt.org, can be misconstrued to 
outsiders as the party line... i think that's an important thing to 

however, i am now thinking about the public bathroom down the 
hall that no one uses but me (except for those two accountants on 
thursdays)... i'm thinking i'll just hang all my anti-accountant 
posters in there because, well, i use it most... who cares if it's a 
public bathroom... maybe i'll put a lock on it, too, but still leave the 
public bathroom sign in place...

> Personally, i think it's very rare that conversations in that room are
> anything but "so how's your day" kind of stuff. The harsh words that
> some people seem to have popped in on are rare occurances... except
> for those of you who show up in the room and start arguments. For you,
> they aren't rare.

i agree, i may have stepped in on the *only* two instances of 
character assault, but as far as i'm concerned, not only is two way 
too many, but given the timeframe in which they both occurred, i 
doubt that's the only two times...  this is how you fraction a group --
 promoting this kind of behavior instead of confronting the issues...

it's funny, seeing that stuff in IRC didn't bug me nearly as much as 
seeing the response above about how it's a closed forum... i don't 
expect to censor people, but i do expect the admins to set a 
precedent...  clearly, there's no interest in doing that on your part 
from what i read above...

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