[Theforum] Changes to the VotingReqs document

.jeff jeff at members.evolt.org
Tue Feb 5 15:21:43 CST 2002


elfur,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Elfur Logadóttir
>
> everything but the userid would of course go to the
> first table when using the anonymous way. and only the
> userid and the questionid would go into the second (the
> core things needed to make sure that one userid can't
> vote twice)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

take a minute to go read one of my first reply's to you in this thread.
you'll see that's exactly what i proposed to you.  i still don't like it
though.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> i still believe that we should have the anonymous voting
> for a certain *few* but important things. There is a
> reason why this is done when voting in normal elections
> and it has to do with attempting to maintain
> comfortability for the voter.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

but you're missing the point.  as long as we have to ensure the integrity of
the vote (ie, each user can only vote once), then there's no chance of 100%
anonymity.  in fact, doing alittle creative querying from the two tables,
one can easily combine the results, compare line by line and see who voted
what.  what you're suggesting doesn't provide anonymity, it merely makes the
data alittle harder to get at (though not really that difficult).

let me give you an example:

SELECT *
  FROM results
 WHERE voteid = 1
 ORDER BY resultsid

RESULTSID  VOTEID  QUESTIONID  ANSWERID  USERID
    1        1         1          3        0
    2        1         2          7        0
    3        1         3         10        0
    4        1         4         14        0
    5        1         1          1        0
    6        1         2          6        0
    7        1         3         12        0
    8        1         4         16        0
    9        1         1          3        0
   10        1         2          8        0
   11        1         3         11        0
   12        1         4         13        0

There's no telling who voted for what based on the results of the query
above.  So, let's go look at the anonresults table.

SELECT *
  FROM anonresults
 WHERE voteid = 1
 ORDER BY anonresultsid

ANONRESULTSID  VOTEID  QUESTIONID  USERID
      1          1         1         15
      2          1         2         15
      3          1         3         15
      4          1         4         15
      5          1         1         13
      6          1         2         13
      7          1         3         13
      8          1         4         13
      9          1         1         20
     10          1         2         20
     11          1         3         20
     12          1         4         20

now, to compare, it's as simple as combining them line by line, to give you
the following:

VOTEID  QUESTIONID  ANSWERID  USERID
  1         1          3        15
  1         2          7        15
  1         3         10        15
  1         4         14        15
  1         1          1        13
  1         2          6        13
  1         3         12        13
  1         4         16        13
  1         1          3        20
  1         2          8        20
  1         3         11        20
  1         4         13        20

where's the anonymity?  answer -- it doesn't exist, based solely on more
important considerations that can't/shouldn't be changed/removed.

so, since vote integrity is paramount (especially for the sort of votes
you'd want to have anonymous), 100% anonymity is out.  therefore, there's no
compelling case for your solution since it doesn't create/guarantee
anonymity.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I still maintain my belief that some things i shouldn't
> have to explain my position on, and *noone* should be
> able to figure out my position on it, not even those
> with root access or db access to the computer/db.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

agreed.  however, it's a fact of life that it can happen -- even with your
idea.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> but if the majority doesn't care, i won't fight for it
> further.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i'm -1 to complete anonymity as it doesn't exist or making it possible would
mean a loss of vote integrity making the results completely useless.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





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