[Theforum] UCE Complaint (bCentral Daily Digest #1410)

David and Sherry Oncale rocking40 at cds1.net
Fri Sep 6 10:25:15 CDT 2002

I have received the attached unsolicited e-mail from
someone at your domain.

I do not wish to receive such messages in the future, so
please take the appropriate measures to ensure that this
unsolicited e-mail is not repeated.

David and Sherry Oncale

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From: "bCentral Daily Digest" <MSN_Newsletters at hotmail.com>
Subject: bCentral Daily Digest #1410
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Date: 5 Sep 2002 14:24:01 -0700

Send your posts to: mailto:digest at le-digest.com

                bCentral Daily Digest
             Moderated Discussion List
           "Effective Online Advertising"
List Moderator:                      Supported by:
Adam Audette                              bCentral
aa at le-digest.com          http://g.msn.com/0NL48253/1289
September 4, 2002                    Digest #1410

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              .....IN THIS DIGEST.....

==== CONTINUING =================

	-=Search Engines & Dynamic Sites=-

		~ Veronica Yuill
"...you can have the best of both worlds - Javascript
popups which function as normal links..."

		~ Rich Dudley
"Support varies [for variable URLs]..."

		~ Bob Tanski
"...you might want to take a look at [XQASP]..."

	-=Establishing Digital Ownership=-

		~ Andrew Waldack
"...what about when a competitor steals your
images and your clients?"

		~ Ashley Watts
"...use a programme that camouflages another
file inside the main one."

==== GEEK TIPS ===================

	-=Search Engines & Site Latency=-
		~ Eric Pederson

==== BILLBOARD ===================

	-=Changing Domain, Retaining Links=-
		~ Sankar Viswanathan

	-=Free Site Stats?=-
		~ Mike Jacobs

===== CONTINUING =================================

From: Veronica Yuill
Subject: Dynamic sites

 > We have a website that is primarily built
 > with [dynamic] .asp pages... [How can we]
 > optimize the site for search engine indexing.
	- Brian Scholte, Daily 1407

 > The specs make up the bulk of your content,
 > but they're in little islands of non-searchableness
 > as JavaScript pop-ups...
	- Christian Nielsen, Daily 1408

It's true, too much of the content on the site is "hidden" behind
Javascript -- this is at least as likely to be responsible for SEs
not crawling the site as dynamic pages are.

But you can have the best of both worlds -- Javascript popups which
function as normal links for non-JS browsers and search engine
spiders. There's an article at Evolt which explains it all: www.evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/

I'd also agree with Christian that you need more descriptive
content for your products -- if this is stored in the database,
it's a simple matter to amend your product template so that each
item has unique title, keywords etc.


Veronica Yuill

Archetype Information Technology Ltd www.archetype-it.com/english/ veronicay[AT]archetype-it[DOT]com

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Dynamic-sites

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Richard Dudley
Subject: Dynamic sites

 > ... but I've also heard that the search engines
 > don't crawl pages with variables in the URL...
	- Brian Sholte, Daily 1407

Support varies.  Do a Google search for "roses butler pa", and look
at the second result's link.  AltaVista, MSN and Teoma don't seem
to be able to follow the link (we participate in Inktomi's paid
submission program).

If you do a Yahoo search for the same words, you'll see Google's
results presented differently -- there's a "Search within this
site" link to follow, which then shows the dynamic page.

AOL's Search, again using Google's results, displays the dynamic
link as the second result.

That's the short of it.

Rich Dudley

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Dynamic-sites

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Bob Tanski
Subject: Dynamic sites

I've never used this product you might want to take a look at
it:  www.xde.net/product_xqasp.htm . I read over the product
description and it sounds as if it should do what you want. I'm
sure there are many more products out there that do the same thing.

Bob Tanski

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Dynamic-sites

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------- new post - new topic -------

From: Andrew Waldack
Subject: Ownership

Reading Craig Herrington's post (issue 1408) regarding ownership, I
agree, in most cases - GET OVER IT.  But what about when a
competitor steals your images and your clients?

Here is the story, in short. We publish a niche business directory.
Our clients are small businesses, limited budgets, very little
computer and internet experience. But the internet works well for
their industry, we have had some great success with clients. To
help them get on the net, we usually build simple, but effective
websites and we do it cost effectively. We also promote their
website on our business directory.

We make our money through hosting websites and advertising them on
our directory. As a value added service, we do the webpages for
close to nothing and the really simple pages for free.

We have one competitor who is going through our directory and
poaching our clients. Our competitor collects contact details of
listed businesses, then uses unsolicited email (spam in my opinion)
to contact them. This competitor is offering similar packages at
reduced prices and quotes website statistics which I think (but
can't prove) are fabricated. We have had many poached clients tell
us they were getting more inquiries from our directory than our
competitors directory.

Basically, my competitor is copying the webpages we created. We
spend the time to scan images and type up the text from brochures
and our competitor copies this. It may take us four hours to scan
images and type text. It takes our competitor seconds to copy all
this and a few minutes to do the layout and format on a webpage.

We have on two occasions sent cease and desist letters. Our
competitor is still poaching our clients and copying our work. Our
competitor is resizing and resampling our images to produce images
which are different in pixels and bytes size. Our competitor claims
to have scanned the images, but some former clients have told us
they never supplied the images or brochures.

I agree with Craig, if it's trivial LET IT GO. I would also like to
make the point, if it directly effects your business, FIGHT FOR IT!
That's what we plan to do.

I would like to thank you all for reading my rave. It felt good to
get it off my chest.

Andrew Waldack

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Ownership

------- new post - same topic -------

From: Ashley Watts
Subject: Ownership

 > Clearly, I need a hidden mark (invisible?)
 > in every image I create... but what?
	- Philip Chave, Daily 1400

This is the first time I have posted, and I am far from a guru,
however, when I read this post I thought I might have an answer for

What you could use is a programme that camouflages another file
inside the main one. To everyone else this file would look / work
exactly the same as normal, but when the file is uncamouflaged it
would give you your main file and the other file that was inside. I
know this sounds confusing but it really is not.

You can get camouflage from www.webmasterfree.com/camouflage.html
(by the way I do not get anything for recommending this program --
not connected at all!) or just type in 'camouflage files' in a
search engine.

Once it is installed you could create some kind of small image /
text file that you would recognise easily (possibly your logo?) and
camouflage it within the banner. Then because you cannot see if a
file is camouflaged someone may try to copy your banner. If you
ever suspect that someone has copied a banner, all you would have
to do is try and uncamouflage their file to see if it contains your
logo. If it does -- jackpot!!

I know it's a bit long winded, but I thought it would be a good way
to solve your problem, oh, and the program is free!!

Hope it gets you on the right track,


Ashley Watts, Junior Webmaster

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Ownership

==== GEEK TIPS ====================================

From: Eric Pederson
Subject: Robot ping tolerance? (latency)

There has been a lot of great discussion about the search engines
and SEO, but I have a "Geek" question on the subject.

I have several domain names which are hosted on free servers while
I define and build the web sites off-line.  I've noticed the
placeholder pages at these sites are slow to load (you get what you
pay for).  Out of curiousity I tried pinging them (using "ping" at
the command prompt).  Here is what I found:

Reference site:
Cisco.com   (  Packet loss 0%   Avg. RT 27ms

Paid server:
Zomething.com   (  Packet loss 0%   Avg. RT 43ms

Free servers:
Mackingjava.com ( Packet loss 100%  (failed)
ParadigmB.com   ( Packet loss 100%  (failed)
Rocket88.us     ( Packet loss 100%  (failed)

Note, each of these sites (such as they are) load using Netscape 6.

I am wondering how long the timeout function of the major search
engines is.  Surely they make a trade-off between the number of
pages they can crawl and how long they wait for a network
handshake, but is it in "ms" or seconds?

A related question, what is the policy of the major search engines
if upon a new web crawl they are not able to connect to a website
(which could be due to network latency or maybe the servers are
down altogether)?  Will Google, et. al. pull you from the listings
or put you on some kind of probation?

I am not suggesting that any serious web enterprise would be hosted
on a free server, but I am curious about excess network legacy
mucking things up.


Eric Pederson

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Site-timeout

==== BILLBOARD ====================================

From: Sankar Viswanathan
Subject: Linking - Change in domain name.

I have been a regular reader of link digest for more than two years
now and have benefited immensely.

I have a web site dealing with a esoteric subject. The site is not
commercial. I put up the site with one of the free web hosts in
1998. In the last four years many sites have linked to my site and
the site has become the main source for that subject. The site is
ranked number one in almost all search engines. It is also listed
in ODP and Looksmart Directories.

Now I would like to move the site out of the free web host and may
be get a separate domain name. I want to switch over to a new web

The question I have is:

1. How do I ensure that I retain all the links to the old site ? 2. How do I retain the search engine position ?

Does anyone have any experience / suggestions?

Thanking You,

Sankar Viswanathan

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Changing-domain

------- new post - new topic -------

From: Mike Jacobs
Subject: Free stats

 > For years I have been using WebTrends Live
 > Personal Edition... Now I get notice that this
 > free version will be unavailable after September...
	- Terry Riley, Daily 1405

Try Hitbox.  Almost the same product, to a "t".  Still free.

Mike Jacobs

WebMogul - Online Marketing that Works

Comment? mailto:digest at le-digest.com?Subject=Free-stats


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