/me hands erika a larger shovel... :-) That was pretty funny actually. Put a smile on my face - which I sorely needed! I think that I'm more of a front end person and thelist now tends to be a lot more back end or at least the front end stuff is very basic. Perhaps it's all basic and I just don't know because the more techy stuff is beyond me. In fact I'm not even subscribed to thelist anymore. So I have no idea what it's like. But that's why I stopped paying attention anyway. I'd agree with you about the community stuff as well. I think that the sticky-ness of evolt is all about the community and I'm really only still here because people I like are here. That's what evolt is for me now. But I'm not sure "club of friends" really works as a mission statement for everyone else! :-) In fact I'd pretty much say +1 for most of what erika said so I'll just write about the parts I disagree with... I do think we need a bit more structure in this process. While I agree mightily that everything that has been said has been worthwhile and valuable, I'm not sure we're any closer to our "goals" then we were when we started a few weeks ago. In fact, I'm not sure any more what exactly our goals are. I think we need a set of defined goals and a plan on how to get there. I think that should be our first order of business. But you know... that's what I think... so what do you all think?