Elfur asked: > Do I sense your comments correctly in that regard? That we don't have a > proper community today because noone had to work hard to build or maintain a > bespoke solution? No, that's backwards from what I was trying to say. We lost our community. I am not trying to explain why, and certainly it is not as simple as 1 reason. Maybe someone will write a book some day. I'm starting from the point where we have agreement that we no longer have an evolt community, at least like we did. Martin offered a great bulleted list of reasons why I'm wrong with the custom CMS idea, and while I appreciate that, I think the time might be better spent on a bulleted list of community-building alternatives. Upgrading our technology is not going to build community. The visual redesign has some potential, but right now 1-2 people are working on that (I could be wrong -- I haven't been following it closely), so that's not going to build community much either. What is our common purpose anymore? Why, other than history and stubbornness, are we even bothering with evolt anymore? People join a community because they are passionate about the common purpose. People join a community because the community offers value to them personally. People join a community because they wish to feel a part of something positive and bigger than themselves. We don't have a community because we no longer meet any of the above conditions. We have no defined common purpose. We have no articles. We have 10 softball posts per day on thelist with an answer and question quality that could be found anywhere on the web. We are not something bigger and we are usually not positive. (Yes, it's a little ironic for me to be so negative about not being positive.) If we have no ideas on how to revive the community that was, then we should stop wasting our time, give the treasury funds to something that is actually useful and positive in the world, and turn off the servers. I'd be willing to do a weekly "ask tom"-style SQL column. And I bet I could get some db gurus from the past to do guest articles, which could perhaps pique their interest in evolt again. Come on, people. I know you understand this stuff. You are half of those who taught me 10 years ago. Think outside the drupal. -- Matt Warden Cincinnati, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy.