> It seems to me (as more of an outsider) that the 'community' you lost > is actually just a group of friends, smart, intelligent, witty people > that were part of thelist and part of the evolt.org admin and that > have mostly moved on I guess I can only suggest you go back and read some of the archives from a long time ago. Your impression of community simply is not correct. Even today, there are not many true online communities in the web dev world like we had. > You appear to be implying that getting more people involved with the > visual redesign will grow the community more? Um, yes? > An archive of interesting articles which continues to > grow. ??? > > People join a community because they wish to feel a part of something > > positive and bigger than themselves. > No. That's why they get involved in admin/content of evolt.org, and > that's a subsection of the community, not the entire community. That's > not why people read articles or subscribe to thelist. Articles and mailing list posts do not make a community. I still think you are not on the same page, here. If you were here when evolt was actually a leading, living community, I think you would have understood that people truly did join to be a part of something and to be associated with this leading, living community. If you were hear when publishing an article on evolt was actually an impressive thing rather than a response to solicitation, then perhaps you would not have reacted to my post like you have. > We happen to be in an era of web dev where frankly, not > much really new and exciting is happening. If that were true, I would have left the industry a long time ago. > To imply that those > questions and answers [on thelist] are worthless is to insult those people imnsho. To imply that I said anything like that is disingenuous. I said there is nothing special about the questions and answers on thelist, which translates into having no reason to post to thelist over any online forum or other mailing list. thelist did once have a very specific niche and you simply could not find an equivalent. It offered very specific value. It does not anymore. If you think saying so is harsh, I'm not sure what to tell you. > What's in it for them? Why on earth would db > guru's be interested in answering noobie questions on thelist, > repeatedly. Again, I don't know how to respond to this. Even today rudy fielded a "newbie" database question. He is not subscribed to thelist, but he occasionally checks the archive for SQL and database questions. Your question of "What's in it for them" is precisely what you and everyone else here needs to understand in order to build community. Again, I don't mean to be harsh, but I actually had a little bit of faith in the likelihood of success from the responses to my last couple emails until I saw yours. We need to put the ego aside, recognize how overgrown the garden has become in the absence of gardeners, and focus on what will build community. Building community is about people, not technology. The "roll your own" CMS idea was not about a technology need; it was about people and common purpose and the community that is created around such a project. You may disagree with the individual idea, but that isn't the point. The point is that prior to the last couple of days, the entire focus has been on HTML and server configuration and whether fonts should be this or that. These are all good discussions and need to happen, but they have nothing to do with community. If there isn't some focus on community building ideas, then I don't really know what we're doing here. This isn't about living in the past. It's about recognizing that things have fundamentally changed in a negative way in the last number of years, and people leaving and articles stagnating and thelist post quality falling are all SYMPTOMS of a loss of community. If we can agree that we need to work on the community side of things, I'm willing to help. If we don't agree about that, then let's just come to that conclusion that so I can avoid wasting my time. Thanks, -- Matt Warden Cincinnati, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy.