[theforum] the new CSS... now, please?

Tara Cleveland tara.cleveland at gmail.com
Sun Nov 23 03:21:32 CST 2008

Hi Erika,

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:58 AM,  <ekm at seastorm.com> wrote:
> see:
> http://www.evolt.org/guide_code2 [and lots of other relevant things...]

I've done a screenshot of that code guidelines that you linked to
because for me on FF3(something) on Mac those headlines are actually
different sizes:

I agree that the light grey isn't great, but I'd rather find something
better than all black (the red was in Martin's design btw).

Can you get me a screenshot of what you're seeing and can other people
with IE7 please concur with Erika about the headlines before we go
changing things unnecessarily?

> I've been for weeks... some of it is in these past couple emails.  Anyway,
> check the code guide, look at how things render - lists - headers -  and
> *you* tell me. :)

> CSS typography is not, need not, should not be complex, or difficult to
> tweak.  If one keeps a backup of one's original styles, why shouldn't a
> person just go for it?

Because what you see and what you like may not be what I see or what I
like. So you could go in there and change things, and then I could
change them back... Unless we have some consensus about what it is
we're doing and why then I don't see that we should do it.

I don't think you're seeing the same things as I am. I think things
are displaying a bit strangely for you - based on what you've
described and your reaction to the site - which isn't great but I
don't think it sucks quite as much as you say.

>> What would you change the styles of the headlines to? What would you
>> change the styles of the paragraphs, lists etc to so that the
>> typography didn't suck and why would changing it that way make it not
>> suck?

I would change it so that some of the headlines have colour. So that
the default font size is bigger. I would change it so that the side
columns aren't almost *all* in bold.... lots of things! I'm *not*
saying things shouldn't change, I'm just saying perhaps a little...
um... thought and discussion beforehand would be a good idea.

> I think what Martin proposed is better than what we have now, and that we
> should switch out, the way he pointed out, and then if that does something
> bad, retract if necessary, and discuss.

I think we should discuss first :D Frankly, I think that'd be easier
than going with something that we think kinda sucks. We are
professionals, so lets make up a decent stylesheet ourselves.

> I'm particularly bothered by H1-H6 which do not appear to have any
> relationship to their heirarchy.  Lists also offer no information when
> marked up POSH.

Okay, maybe I'm really dumb.... what does POSH stand for?

> There is other stuff I just consider "sucky" such as italicizing
> everything between <q> tags, too much space around header tags, and the
> default font-size which I find difficult to read... but, whatever.  Some
> of it is just annoying, but other stuff seems almost ridiculous.

I agree with all those things... Can we increase the default font
size? Anyone have objections to that?

Okay... enough line by line responses... I'm now working on changing
the styles - but on a couple of example html pages sucked off of
evolt.org... although I do need to go to bed at some point so those
examples will probably come tomorrow.


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