From dcody at oracular.com Fri Dec 1 13:30:28 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Dec 1 13:30:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <3A27FBE0.3050603@oracular.com> Hi everybody - Just wanted to see where we're at with test.evolt.org this week. I've been brutally busy getting moved into my new place, so I haven't been around much lately, but I wanted to see where we're at. Jeff? 'Nuh? Elfur? Rudy? David? Special Ed? Adrian? Just wonering what we have done and what we have yet to finish up. THanks ;) .djc. From elfur at lists.evolt.org Fri Dec 1 13:42:34 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Fri Dec 1 13:42:34 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. References: <3A27FBE0.3050603@oracular.com> Message-ID: <018a01c05bcf$79c89400$40aefea9@DWARFS> I'm heading out for the evening, but this is my status: What I've done is pretty much what I can do for now (at least that's what I think) This is mainly because there is too much programming left on the part I have (the member/user pages + login/out) I've offered Marlene help with her part, but haven't had any reply yet, and don't dare to just start without asking first. Anyways, I will talk to you tomorrow, figuring this out. *the partying one rests* From: "Daniel J. Cody" | Just wanted to see where we're at with test.evolt.org this week. | | Jeff? 'Nuh? Elfur? Rudy? David? Special Ed? Adrian? | | Just wonering what we have done and what we have yet to finish up. From djc at five2one.org Fri Dec 1 14:36:28 2000 From: djc at five2one.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Dec 1 14:36:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] November Stats Message-ID: <3A280B58.2060901@five2one.org> http://evolt.org/stats/stats.nov2k.html Page views were down a bit this month compared to last, but traffic was up in a big way(from 17Gb last month to 22Gb this month). Failed requests were down by 50%, probably because I finally put a robots.txt file on our site Even though our page views were down, 'hits' were up to 300,000(which i dont understand..) Most widely read article(suprise suprise) was the flamefest between me and Jeff Zeldman, followed by the NS6 article and the freelancing tips article by iSac's partner(not in the gay sense ;) Nick. discuss amongst yourselves.. .djc. From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Fri Dec 1 14:58:28 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Fri Dec 1 14:58:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F01602218@EXPO1> >Just wanted to see where we're at with test.evolt.org this week. Been pretty busy with work, so I haven't really done anything for a couple of days. I've done the bulk of the work that needs to happen on my blob of pages. There's still some detail stuff that needs to happen, but it's just a matter of picking through the stuff line by line. I have a couple of questions, though: I created this page to validate the articles template: http://test.evolt.org/test/article/validate_article.html and when I run it through validator.w3.org, there are some problems with CF code in links not validating. (There are some other errors, too, but that's the stuff I was referring to in the first 'graph. A bunch of it is form tags outside cell tags.) Here's an example: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Line 51, column 126: ... ref="http://test.evolt.org/evolt.borg?cfid=337544&cftoken=99383017"> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ftest.evolt.org%2Ftest%2Fartic le%2Fvalidate_article.html Is there something we can do to make those validate? Or should we not worry about it? All in all, though I think we're pretty well on target. Dave From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Dec 1 15:09:32 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:09:32 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F01602218@EXPO1> Message-ID: <200012012109.eB1L9Vh13364@farmer.oracular.com> > From: McCreath_David [...] > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Line 51, column 126: > ... ref="http://test.evolt.org/evolt.borg?cfid=337544&cftoken=99383017"> ... > ^ > Error: general entity "cftoken" not defined and no default entity > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > And here's the link to the actual validation: > > > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ftest.evolt.org%2Ftest%2Fartic > le%2Fvalidate_article.html > > > Is there something we can do to make those validate? Or should we not worry > about it? ampersands in links should be &, not &... so it's looking for &cftoken (or &cftoken;) as an ISO entity, just the same way © is the copyright symbol... so, the CF guys would have to do a replace for all instances of '&' in a hyperlink, replacing it '&' dig? From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Fri Dec 1 15:18:38 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:18:38 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F01602219@EXPO1> >ampersands in links should be &, not &... so it's looking for >&cftoken (or &cftoken;) as an ISO entity, just the same way >© is the copyright symbol... > >so, the CF guys would have to do a replace for all instances of '&' >in a hyperlink, replacing it '&' > >dig? Dug. So are we going to change it or are we going to say that it's an known error when we're validating and let it go? In some ways it would be nice to really, truly get a clean validation, but at the same time, if it's just an issue with that one thing... From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Dec 1 15:20:59 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:20:59 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F01602219@EXPO1> Message-ID: <200012012120.eB1LKwh13560@farmer.oracular.com> > From: McCreath_David > > Dug. So are we going to change it or are we going to say that it's an known > error when we're validating and let it go? In some ways it would be nice to > really, truly get a clean validation, but at the same time, if it's just an > issue with that one thing... if you can't make that happen, then we have to ask the CF guys... if they can't (for whatever reason), then we may have to live with it... From mwarden at mattwarden.com Fri Dec 1 15:21:28 2000 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:21:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] CF error upon admin edit on new article Message-ID: <041101c05bdc$31528c00$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> thesitians, testing the edit functionality of new articles: post from http://test.evolt.org/article/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=25&aid=4246 to http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=article&action=process error: An error occurred while evaluating the expression: #getcontent.categoryid# Error near line 90, column 49. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Error resolving parameter GETCONTENT.CATEGORYID The column CATEGORYID is not present in the query named GETCONTENT. It is likely that you have misspelled the name of the column. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#getcontent.categoryid#), occupying document position (90:48) to (90:70). Date/Time: Fri Dec 1 15:22:08 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) Remote Address: 207.90.123.89 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=25&aid=4246 Query String: section=article&action=process -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Fri Dec 1 15:24:11 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:24:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F01602219@EXPO1> Message-ID: <041701c05bdc$920f8fc0$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> > Dug. So are we going to change it or are we going to say that it's an known > error when we're validating and let it go? In some ways it would be nice to > really, truly get a clean validation, but at the same time, if it's just an > issue with that one thing... What happened to the SSURL (super sexy URL)? This wouldn't even be an issue if these parameters were included in the SSURL format. Dig? Spade? Hoe (the tool)? Shovel? -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Fri Dec 1 15:27:53 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:27:53 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221A@EXPO1> >if you can't make that happen, then we have to ask the CF guys... >if they can't (for whatever reason), then we may have to live >with it... As far as I can tell, those URLs are generated by the application. If there is a way for me to change, them I'll be more than happy to, but I'm not sure where to start looking. Dan? Jeff? From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Fri Dec 1 15:33:48 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:33:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221A@EXPO1> Message-ID: <042501c05bdd$e404e540$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> > As far as I can tell, those URLs are generated by the application. If there > is a way for me to change, them I'll be more than happy to, but I'm not sure > where to start looking. > > Dan? Jeff? Aren't they usually stored in cookies? If there's an option to throw them onto URLs, there might be an option to change the format. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From seth at sethbienek.com Fri Dec 1 15:37:15 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:37:15 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: <042501c05bdd$e404e540$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: Hey Guys, Sorry, I've been dozing.. The CFID and CFTOKEN attributes are stored in the client scope, i.e., #client.cfid# AND #client.cftoken#. Hope this helps, Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Warden, Matt > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:30 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. > > > > As far as I can tell, those URLs are generated by the > application. If there > > is a way for me to change, them I'll be more than happy to, but > I'm not sure > > where to start looking. > > > > Dan? Jeff? > > Aren't they usually stored in cookies? If there's an option to > throw them onto > URLs, there might be an option to change the format. > > -- > mattwarden > mattwarden.com > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Fri Dec 1 15:38:55 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:38:55 2000 Subject: [thesite] article auto-approve?? Message-ID: <042b01c05bde$a0a04820$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> all, do admins have their artivles automatically approved? I tried to submit an article that I could use to play with, but it doesn't show up in the new articles. However, it *does* show up in the adminbox. When I click on the article link, it brings me to a view of the article with a comment box, etc. but no admin functions. Yet, it doesn't show up on the front page either. Does someone else have to approve the article or is it auto-approved because I'm in the admin realm? Is there an article that I can use to play with? I see many test articles, but I don't know if people are using them to test something specific and I don't want to mess any of that up. Let me know ASAP. thanks, -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Fri Dec 1 15:42:11 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:42:11 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] CF error upon admin edit on new article References: <041101c05bdc$31528c00$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> Message-ID: <043501c05bdf$15768f60$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> another related but different error: posting from: http://test.evolt.org/article/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=12&aid=4286 to: http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=article&action=process Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: #getcontent.who# Error near line 40, column 12. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Error resolving parameter GETCONTENT.WHO ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: You have misspelled the parameter name, or You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (#getcontent.who#), occupying document position (40:11) to (40:26). Date/Time: Fri Dec 1 15:43:29 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) Remote Address: 207.90.123.89 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=12&aid=4286 Query String: section=article&action=process > error: > An error occurred while evaluating the expression: > > > #getcontent.categoryid# > > > > Error near line 90, column 49. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > > Error resolving parameter GETCONTENT.CATEGORYID > > > The column CATEGORYID is not present in the query named GETCONTENT. It is > likely that you have misspelled the name of the column. > > > > The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of > (#getcontent.categoryid#), occupying document position (90:48) to (90:70). > > > Date/Time: Fri Dec 1 15:22:08 2000 > Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) > Remote Address: 207.90.123.89 > HTTP Referer: > http://test.evolt.org/article/evolt.borg?action=edit&tid=25&aid=4246 > Query String: section=article&action=process From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Fri Dec 1 15:46:14 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:46:14 2000 Subject: [thesite] article auto-approve?? Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221B@EXPO1> >do admins have their artivles automatically approved? I tried >to submit an >article that I could use to play with, but it doesn't show up >in the new >articles. Ooo! That reminds me! I submitted an article to test.evolt.org earlier this week so that I could get a look at the article/dsp_edit.cfm and I don't think it's been approved yet. Is it waiting or did it not go through? If it's waiting, could someone approve it? tanxamil Dave From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Fri Dec 1 15:48:19 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:48:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221C@EXPO1> >The CFID and CFTOKEN attributes are stored in the client scope, i.e., >#client.cfid# AND #client.cftoken#. > >Hope this helps, > >Seth Thanks, Seth -- However, pardon my CF ignorance, but does that mean that those of us doing HTML clean up can change them or not? Dave From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Fri Dec 1 15:48:52 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:48:52 2000 Subject: [thesite] article auto-approve?? References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221B@EXPO1> Message-ID: <044901c05be0$0418a5e0$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> that the wolf article or whatever? doing that now... ----- Original Message ----- From: McCreath_David To: Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: RE: [thesite] article auto-approve?? > >do admins have their artivles automatically approved? I tried > >to submit an > >article that I could use to play with, but it doesn't show up > >in the new > >articles. > > Ooo! That reminds me! I submitted an article to test.evolt.org earlier this > week so that I could get a look at the article/dsp_edit.cfm and I don't > think it's been approved yet. Is it waiting or did it not go through? If > it's waiting, could someone approve it? > > tanxamil > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From mwarden at odyssey-design.com Fri Dec 1 15:50:56 2000 From: mwarden at odyssey-design.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:50:56 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] trying to approve dave's article References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221B@EXPO1> Message-ID: <044d01c05be0$4e9ba900$b8ee00cf@mwardenlaptop> from: http://test.evolt.org/article/The_Wolf_and_the_Lamb/25/4246/evolt.borg to: http://test.evolt.org/test/index.cfm?section=article&action=approve&tid=25&aid =4246 Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: "#Replace(Trim(Replace(Replace(Replace(ReplaceList(form.contentname, bad_chars, good_chars), ",", "", "ALL"), " ", " ", "ALL"), " ", " ", "ALL")), " ", "_", "ALL")#" Error near line 3, column 40. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Error resolving parameter FORM.CONTENTNAME The specified form field cannot be found. This problem is very likely due to the fact that you have misspelled the form field name. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFPARAM), occupying document position (3:1) to (3:205). Date/Time: Fri Dec 1 15:52:53 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) Remote Address: 207.90.123.89 HTTP Referer: http://test.evolt.org/article/The_Wolf_and_the_Lamb/25/4246/evolt.borg Query String: section=article&action=approve&tid=25&aid=4246 From seth at sethbienek.com Fri Dec 1 15:56:10 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:56:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Incidentally, what are y'all using to look at/edit the code? I'm using FTP and I swear to God I am about to bash my own head in. It is SOOOOOO slow!!!! Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Seth Bienek > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:40 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: RE: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. > > > Hey Guys, > > Sorry, I've been dozing.. > > The CFID and CFTOKEN attributes are stored in the client scope, i.e., > #client.cfid# AND #client.cftoken#. > > Hope this helps, > > Seth > > ------------------------------ > Seth Bienek > Solutions Development Manager > Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. > 972.455.7294 tel > 972.404.9754 fax > ------------------------------ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Warden, Matt > > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:30 PM > > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > > Subject: Re: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. > > > > > > > As far as I can tell, those URLs are generated by the > > application. If there > > > is a way for me to change, them I'll be more than happy to, but > > I'm not sure > > > where to start looking. > > > > > > Dan? Jeff? > > > > Aren't they usually stored in cookies? If there's an option to > > throw them onto > > URLs, there might be an option to change the format. > > > > -- > > mattwarden > > mattwarden.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From seth at sethbienek.com Fri Dec 1 15:56:13 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Fri Dec 1 15:56:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221C@EXPO1> Message-ID: Hi Dave, It depends.. On where they are, and how you want to change the way they are dealt with. Are they going to be used in conjunction with the SSURL's? For all clients, or just those with cookies disabled? Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of McCreath_David > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:54 PM > To: 'thesite at lists.evolt.org' > Subject: RE: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. > > Thanks, Seth -- However, pardon my CF ignorance, but does that mean that > those of us doing HTML clean up can change them or not? > From McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us Fri Dec 1 16:01:25 2000 From: McCreath_David at xmail.asd.k12.ak.us (McCreath_David) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:01:25 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221E@EXPO1> >Hi Dave, > >It depends.. On where they are, and how you want to change the way they are >dealt with. Are they going to be used in conjunction with the SSURL's? For >all clients, or just those with cookies disabled? > >Seth Not a clue. I guess we'll have to defer to Dan/Jeff as authors of the SSURL scheme. As for the editing/viewing, I use WS-FTP to grab the files I need, edit them in Homesite, and FTP 'em back up. The connection process occasionally drags and the timeout is occasionally quicker than I'd like, but I always get a connection and the actual transfer rates are pretty decent. Dave From joshua at alphashop.net Fri Dec 1 16:11:54 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:11:54 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221E@EXPO1> Message-ID: <01b701c05bfd$746abe60$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> SSURL the cfid and cftoken are what CF uses to track user sessions. They are roughly the same as maintaining the client state with cookies. I don't understand why the validator does not like the attributes on the url. That, to me, seems like a perfectly normal way to pas attributes. Technically, the application could be set up to store client state in cookies and completely forgo the cfid and cftoken (SSURL would still work) but the idea is to not discourage users who do not have cookies enabled. Can anybody explain again (I did now quite understand the first time) why the validor as w3c is horking on the parameters? -joshua From joshua at alphashop.net Fri Dec 1 16:16:48 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:16:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] Hijacking prevention... References: <9627DBCB3063D311BC4B00902785C55F0160221E@EXPO1> <01b701c05bfd$746abe60$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: <01bd01c05bfe$23463b80$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> Was any sort of session hijacking prevention method installed on evolt this go-around? That could, potentially, cause problems with autovalidators examining urls with cfid and cftoken. Just a thought, though I'm not sure you even put one on. -joshua From seth at sethbienek.com Fri Dec 1 16:26:17 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:26:17 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: <01b701c05bfd$746abe60$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: Hi Joshua, XHTML 1.0 (the current W3C Recommendation) says you need to use '&' instead of just '&' in query strings... Thus the fuss... http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#guidelines (See appendix C-12) Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joshua OIson > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:16 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. > > > SSURL > > the cfid and cftoken are what CF uses to track user sessions. They are > roughly the same as maintaining the client state with cookies. I don't > understand why the validator does not like the attributes on the > url. That, > to me, seems like a perfectly normal way to pas attributes. Technically, > the application could be set up to store client state in cookies and > completely forgo the cfid and cftoken (SSURL would still work) > but the idea > is to not discourage users who do not have cookies enabled. Can anybody > explain again (I did now quite understand the first time) why the > validor as > w3c is horking on the parameters? > > -joshua > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From joshua at alphashop.net Fri Dec 1 16:32:55 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:32:55 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. References: Message-ID: <01c501c05c00$64e330a0$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> It sounds like this should be easy to fix. Application.cfm defines and_tokens and quest_tokens... change them to the w3c correct format and most of the site should clean itself up. -joshua > Hi Joshua, > > XHTML 1.0 (the current W3C Recommendation) says you need to use '&' > instead of just '&' in query strings... Thus the fuss... > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#guidelines > > (See appendix C-12) > > Seth From joshua at alphashop.net Fri Dec 1 16:35:56 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:35:56 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. References: Message-ID: <01d001c05c00$d153a850$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> scratch that. I assumed (and you know where that gets us) that application.cfm did that as I've seen reference to the variables quest_tokens and and_tokens in some posts. But, whereever they are, and assuming they're being used correctly, they need just be changed. -joshua From seth at sethbienek.com Fri Dec 1 16:47:16 2000 From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek) Date: Fri Dec 1 16:47:16 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: <01d001c05c00$d153a850$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: It should be as easy as replacing all of the '&'s in the HTML code with '&'s.. Just gotta be careful to not replace any of the ones in the CF code... Seth ------------------------------ Seth Bienek Solutions Development Manager Stonebridge Technologies, Inc. 972.455.7294 tel 972.404.9754 fax ------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org > [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joshua OIson > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:40 PM > To: thesite at lists.evolt.org > Subject: Re: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. > > > scratch that. I assumed (and you know where that gets us) that > application.cfm did that as I've seen reference to the variables > quest_tokens and and_tokens in some posts. But, whereever they are, and > assuming they're being used correctly, they need just be changed. > > -joshua > > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ > and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ > From marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com Fri Dec 1 17:58:48 2000 From: marlene.bruce at colemandesign.com (Marlene Bruce) Date: Fri Dec 1 17:58:48 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. Message-ID: <93A7B5EFAA22D4119C8400105A9CA616265CA1@EXCHANGE> Here I am. I'm way behind on thesite, so I'll read the most recent posts to make sure I'm on target for my immediate duties. Just got caught up on admin. Dave, I just read your email from the 28th (thanks, I'm feeling better...it's been a hectic week too). I'll be in touch with both you and Elfur this weekend. I'll plow through my responsibilities over the next few days. Do we have a target for when our stuff needs to be done? Monday? Wednesday? How much time do we want to leave to weed out final bugs before the 14th? Sorry if this kind of schedule stuff has already been decided on, or if it's implied in the work everyone's doing. Anyone wanna give me a recap? I'll be online again in a few hours. Marlene > ---------- > From: Elfur Logadottir > > I've offered Marlene help with her part, but haven't had any > reply yet, and don't dare to just start without asking > first. From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Dec 1 20:13:24 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Fri Dec 1 20:13:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: seth, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Seth Bienek : : The CFID and CFTOKEN attributes are stored in the : client scope, i.e., #client.cfid# AND #client.cftoken#. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ actually they're only in the client scope if client management is turned on (which it is *not* on test.evolt.org). otherwise they're in a session variable called session.urltokens (assuming sessions is turned on). just wanted to clarify, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From elfur at elfur.is Fri Dec 1 20:31:04 2000 From: elfur at elfur.is (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Fri Dec 1 20:31:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] Login with "Remember me" checked Message-ID: <022301c05c08$8c031580$40aefea9@DWARFS> I can't recall if this one has been discovered: On the front page, trying to login, choosing remember me and got this: (the url that was returned was: http://test.evolt.org/evolt.borg?cfid=346984&cftoken=410 4878) ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic Information An error occurred while evaluating the expression: "caller.attributes.#ListFirst(listElement, '=')#" = IIF(ListLen(listElement, '=') IS 2, "ListLast(listElement, '=')", DE("")) Error near line 63, column 12. ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Cannot set dynamic variable with name 'caller.attributes.amp;cftoken'. The variable name is illegal. Variable names must start with a letter and can include only letters, numbers, and underscores. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFSET), occupying document position (63:5) to (63:137). Date/Time: Fri Dec 1 20:32:54 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0; DigExt) Remote Address: 194.144.199.108 ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- [elfur] From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Dec 1 20:36:07 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Fri Dec 1 20:36:07 2000 Subject: [thesite] [bug] Login with "Remember me" checked In-Reply-To: <022301c05c08$8c031580$40aefea9@DWARFS> Message-ID: elfur, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Elfur Logadottir : : I can't recall if this one has been discovered: : : On the front page, trying to login, choosing remember me and : got this: : (the url that was returned was: : http://test.evolt.org/evolt.borg?cfid=346984&cftoken=410 : 4878) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i was testing out how easy it would be to swap the & in the url with &. it's not going to be very easy at all. should be back to working now. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From martin at members.evolt.org Sat Dec 2 05:42:18 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sat Dec 2 05:42:18 2000 Subject: [thesite] 14 days and counting.. In-Reply-To: References: <01b701c05bfd$746abe60$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001202113955.039af770@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 22:29 01/12/00, Seth Bienek wrote: >XHTML 1.0 (the current W3C Recommendation) says you need to use '&' >instead of just '&' in query strings... Thus the fuss... > >http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#guidelines Seth We're not coding to XHTML. Although I have seen ie5 have problems when you don't use & Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOijgHHHoHnCoNczLEQJLlgCgnl7EPz3tKxjR5B+uJlPUPukGZjIAn0wm A7kOeqLQRVb2wrFWy3fXapTF =Nk18 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From joshua at alphashop.net Sat Dec 2 05:57:28 2000 From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson) Date: Sat Dec 2 05:57:28 2000 Subject: [thesite] & vs & (XHTML w3c Specification) References: <01b701c05bfd$746abe60$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> <5.0.2.1.0.20001202113955.039af770@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <023701c05c70$c7d261c0$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> I messed around with & vs & last night on one of my sites and I noticed that while ie5.5 (undoubtedly the most stable and well developed browser ever ) does like href's to use & (as per the w3c specification) it does not like the &'s in action (like in a form tag, again, as per the w3c specification) So, a handy search and replace on the code for & and &is not really appropriate, and changing quest_tokens and and_tokens is not really appropriate since that should affect every url. Can anybody else verify my observations? -joshua From mccreath at ak.net Sat Dec 2 22:46:04 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Sat Dec 2 22:46:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] Bug? Message-ID: Hi hi hi -- I don't know if this constitutes a bug, but while playing around with some of the comment documents, I was trying to find the comment search (which I still haven't found... is it an admin function?). Anyway, while looking at a comment, I started plugging actions into the query string based on app_comment to try to get to the comment search. So I tried "delete" and I got a 404 message, but when I went back to the article that the comment was attached to, I realized that I had deleted it! It was one of Elfur's comments (sorry, E. :(), not mine which is what concerns me. Do we need to have a confirmation *page* instead of just a dialogue box? I'm just thinking about malicious deletion of comments, and I guess anybody bent on deleting someone else's comment would just answer yes, but is there some way to prevent that from happening (deleting a comment by adding "delete" to the query string)? Dave From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 3 11:36:57 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 3 11:36:57 2000 Subject: [thesite] Bug? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dave, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: David McCreath : : I don't know if this constitutes a bug, but while : playing around with some of the comment : documents, I was trying to find the comment : search (which I still haven't found... is it an : admin function?). :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://test.evolt.org/comment/index.cfm it's not really an admin function, but it's also not fully developed yet either. i'm still having some issues with the search functionality. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Anyway, while looking at a comment, I started : plugging actions into the query string based on : app_comment to try to get to the comment search. : So I tried "delete" and I got a 404 message, but when : I went back to the article that the comment was attached : to, I realized that I had deleted it! It was one of Elfur's : comments (sorry, E. :(), not mine which is what concerns : me. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i'm curious what the url looked like. could you reconstruct what you did and post it? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Do we need to have a confirmation *page* instead of : just a dialogue box? I'm just thinking about malicious : deletion of comments, and I guess anybody bent on : deleting someone else's comment would just answer : yes, but is there some way to prevent that from happening : (deleting a comment by adding "delete" to the query string)? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ well, since only the author of a comment or an admin should be able to delete a comment, i just went ahead and put in that exact logic. so, unless you own the comment or have the appropriate level of access you shouldn't be able to do this again. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 3 11:43:32 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 3 11:43:32 2000 Subject: [thesite] Hijacking prevention... In-Reply-To: <01bd01c05bfe$23463b80$0300a8c0@agusta1.ga.home> Message-ID: joshua, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Joshua OIson : : Was any sort of session hijacking prevention : method installed on evolt this go-around? That : could, potentially, cause problems with autovalidators : examining urls with cfid and cftoken. Just a thought, : though I'm not sure you even put one on. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ there isn't any session hi-jacking prevention in place at this time. it's assumed that if you paste a url from the site while you're logged in and tokens are appended that you intended to share you session with whom you're sharing the url. if you're logged in with a persistent login then you don't need to worry about it as tokens are not appended. i believe the problem is that none of the urls on the site point at any actual documents on the server. for whatever reason, other servers see that and report it as a 404, even though our server will still serve up a document. very odd. i discovered the same problem occurs on the sites we've built at alphashop using this technique so it's not isolated to linux. i wonder what search engines will think? crawl or 404? thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From mccreath at ak.net Sun Dec 3 12:20:15 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Sun Dec 3 12:20:15 2000 Subject: [thesite] Bug? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Jeff -- > : documents, I was trying to find the comment > : search (which I still haven't found... is it an > : admin function?). > :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > http://test.evolt.org/comment/index.cfm > > it's not really an admin function, but it's also not fully developed yet > either. i'm still having some issues with the search functionality. Okey doke. I'll go ahead and fix the HTML. > : So I tried "delete" and I got a 404 message, but when > : I went back to the article that the comment was attached > : to, I realized that I had deleted it! It was one of Elfur's > > i'm curious what the url looked like. could you reconstruct what you did > and post it? Well, I just tried and I can't. I'll play some more with it later. I know that I started by clicking on the grrr! link, then I started taking stuff in and out of the query string. At some point I put "delete" in as the action, but I can't remember specifically what I had done up to that point. I'll see if I can reconstruct it. > well, since only the author of a comment or an admin should be able to > delete a comment, i just went ahead and put in that exact logic. You mean you added more logic between the time that I deleted the comment and now? Because that's exactly what I was able to do; I deleted somebody else's comment. What I did just now was go to one of your comments: http://test.evolt.org/comment/grrr/evolt.borg?action=grrr&tid=18&aid=4109&ci d=4127 and type in "delete" instead of "grrr", and I got a CF processing error. Then I took out the /grrr/ directory and replaced the action with "delete" again, and got another CF error. If you've changed the code, then I think you fixed it. I'll play with it more later. Dave From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Tue Dec 5 14:53:19 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy) Date: Tue Dec 5 14:53:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] the test evolt site Message-ID: i'm using netscape 4.04 and i have the following problems with the test site 1. why is there a horizontal scrollbar? 2. why is there a gap between the top black tab/bar and the rest of the content? 3. how do i enlarge the text in the main light green content area and the top of the dark green sidebar down the right? (beginning with the word Submit, the size is okay, but above that it's too small) i logged in and went to "Edit Style" but i have no idea what to change -- i saw something called SIDE but it didn't seem to affect the sidebar, and i saw something called SIDEBAR but there was no font size option actually, i just went and changed *every* instance of font size (about a dozen places) to 32px, but nothing happened when i hit Save Style -- do i have to log out and back in again for it to take effect? or is this feature not working? assuming it will be working when we launch, will there be instructions? i found the "Edit Style" page quite intimidating 4. did we abandon the idea of the new sexy urls? every page i went to had a url with a question mark in it e.g. http://test.evolt.org/style/evolt.borg?action=edit http://test.evolt.org/topics/evolt.borg?tid=25 http://test.evolt.org/faq/evolt.borg 5. is anybody working on the cf code for "Edit Account" -- i thought this was half done already (i do remember inserting some test data for dan and myself) rudy slow day at the office From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Tue Dec 5 14:53:20 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy) Date: Tue Dec 5 14:53:20 2000 Subject: [thesite] the test evolt site Message-ID: i'm using netscape 4.04 and i have the following problems with the test site 1. why is there a horizontal scrollbar? 2. why is there a gap between the top black tab/bar and the rest of the content? 3. how do i enlarge the text in the main light green content area and the top of the dark green sidebar down the right? (beginning with the word Submit, the size is okay, but above that it's too small) i logged in and went to "Edit Style" but i have no idea what to change -- i saw something called SIDE but it didn't seem to affect the sidebar, and i saw something called SIDEBAR but there was no font size option actually, i just went and changed *every* instance of font size (about a dozen places) to 32px, but nothing happened when i hit Save Style -- do i have to log out and back in again for it to take effect? or is this feature not working? assuming it will be working when we launch, will there be instructions? i found the "Edit Style" page quite intimidating 4. did we abandon the idea of the new sexy urls? every page i went to had a url with a question mark in it e.g. http://test.evolt.org/style/evolt.borg?action=edit http://test.evolt.org/topics/evolt.borg?tid=25 http://test.evolt.org/faq/evolt.borg 5. is anybody working on the cf code for "Edit Account" -- i thought this was half done already (i do remember inserting some test data for dan and myself) rudy slow day at the office From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Tue Dec 5 14:53:24 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy) Date: Tue Dec 5 14:53:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] the test evolt site Message-ID: i'm using netscape 4.04 and i have the following problems with the test site 1. why is there a horizontal scrollbar? 2. why is there a gap between the top black tab/bar and the rest of the content? 3. how do i enlarge the text in the main light green content area and the top of the dark green sidebar down the right? (beginning with the word Submit, the size is okay, but above that it's too small) i logged in and went to "Edit Style" but i have no idea what to change -- i saw something called SIDE but it didn't seem to affect the sidebar, and i saw something called SIDEBAR but there was no font size option actually, i just went and changed *every* instance of font size (about a dozen places) to 32px, but nothing happened when i hit Save Style -- do i have to log out and back in again for it to take effect? or is this feature not working? assuming it will be working when we launch, will there be instructions? i found the "Edit Style" page quite intimidating 4. did we abandon the idea of the new sexy urls? every page i went to had a url with a question mark in it e.g. http://test.evolt.org/style/evolt.borg?action=edit http://test.evolt.org/topics/evolt.borg?tid=25 http://test.evolt.org/faq/evolt.borg 5. is anybody working on the cf code for "Edit Account" -- i thought this was half done already (i do remember inserting some test data for dan and myself) rudy slow day at the office From dcody at oracular.com Tue Dec 5 15:42:44 2000 From: dcody at oracular.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Dec 5 15:42:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] Things.. Message-ID: <3A2D60CC.1040000@oracular.com> Heya gang - Finally got all our stuff moved into the new place, and have some time to check out email and that kinda stuff..Couple updates: The new place is really kick ass. Jen and I had a couple friends help move us in, and most of the stuff is there.. now its just a matter of unpacking it all and trying to find where the hell my clean socks are..being with a roomate(if thats what you call it, also known as "Living in Sin") for the first time in 2 years is taking a bit of getting adjusted to.. i'm used to coming home from work, throwing clothes everywhere and leaving empty beer bottles everywhere(as rudy, jeff, and marlene can attest ;).. now theres like this other person there. and even though i've known her for a long ass time, its still kinda wierd :) things are going ok though, and i'll actually be sending out christmas cards(if people not on the admin list want one, send me your address so i can shoot you one :) this year.. another one of those things that women get on men to do.. javi - if you have a chance, can you look into a wine from chile for me called 'La Playa'? jen and i had a bottle(payment for contract work for wines.com a couple years back) last night for our first night in the new place, and it was really good. it was a merlot, but i'm interested more in the vineyard. i'd be interested to see if you could ship some up to me(at my expense of course :) if it works for ya.. I'll be putting in my two weeks at Oracular tomorrow as I've accepted a job with a firm in Milwaukee called stark media (http://www.starkmedia.com ) its pretty much the same thing I'm doing now, just on a larger scale with more responsibility and a much much better working enviornment. I'm excited about the new job to say the least.. Jen only works about 5 blocks away in downtown Milwaukee, so we'll be able to commute together which will kick some serious ass :) Still don't have internet access at my new place yet, so I'll only be able to communicate during the day for the next couple days. christ my emails always turn into fucking dissertations.. Still catching up on email here and on thesite and stuff, more to come soon hopefully.. Hope everyone is having a nice holiday season thus far :) .djc. From jeff at members.evolt.org Tue Dec 5 15:49:01 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Tue Dec 5 15:49:01 2000 Subject: [thesite] the test evolt site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: rudy, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: rudy : : 1. why is there a horizontal scrollbar? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dunno, can't answer that one for ya. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : 2. why is there a gap between the top black : tab/bar and the rest of the content? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dunno, can't answer that one for ya either. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : 3. how do i enlarge the text in the main light green : content area and the top of the dark green sidebar : down the right? (beginning with the word Submit, : the size is okay, but above that it's too small) : : i logged in and went to "Edit Style" but i have no idea : what to change -- i saw something called SIDE but it : didn't seem to affect the sidebar, and i saw something : called SIDEBAR but there was no font size option : : actually, i just went and changed *every* instance of : font size (about a dozen places) to 32px, but nothing : happened when i hit Save Style -- do i have to log out : and back in again for it to take effect? or is this feature : not working? assuming it will be working when we : launch, will there be instructions? i found the "Edit Style" : page quite intimidating :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the site isn't hooked up to the dynamic style template right now. it's actually just hooked up to a plain-old vanilla css file. so, that means that style changing doesn't work right now. there can be instructions if someone wants to write some. better yet, i'd prefer to have someone that wants to write a dhtml interface for this get in touch with me and we can take it from there. as the page is now it *is* quite intimidating, but i think if there were an "edit properties" dialogue like when editing the appearance of your win9.x environment that it'd be much easier to work with. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : 4. did we abandon the idea of the new sexy urls? every : page i went to had a url with a question mark in it : : e.g. http://test.evolt.org/style/evolt.borg?action=edit : http://test.evolt.org/topics/evolt.borg?tid=25 : http://test.evolt.org/faq/evolt.borg :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ no, we haven't abandoned them at all. in fact, the last example you gave doesn't even have a question mark. those urls that aren't important for the search engines to index may have question marks and querystrings, but all the regular links to content will not. visit the site when you're not logged in and you'll see what i mean - no question marks anywhere on the site where links to content is concerned. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : 5. is anybody working on the cf code for "Edit Account" -- : i thought this was half done already (i do remember inserting : some test data for dan and myself) :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i'm not aware of anyone working on it. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : slow day at the office :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ apparently. ;p thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca Tue Dec 5 15:50:24 2000 From: Rudy_Limeback at maritimelife.ca (rudy) Date: Tue Dec 5 15:50:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] apologies Message-ID: my apologies for the triple posting the company lotus notes server was barfing here, and made it look (via an arcane error message, which i neglected to screencap) as though the messages had not been sent, when they had usually i manage to keep a pretty cool head when systems die on me, and i'm a bit peeved that i didn't remember to take the screencap i have a small collection, which aren't really all that funny, but which illustrate how self-centered error message authors can be f'rinstance, the previous one i saved from lotus notes said Sorry, an uncorrectable error has occurred Lookuphandle: handle not allocated Press ENTER to abort the application. duh rudy.ca From elfur at lists.evolt.org Tue Dec 5 17:33:31 2000 From: elfur at lists.evolt.org (Elfur Logadottir) Date: Tue Dec 5 17:33:31 2000 Subject: [thesite] apologies References: Message-ID: <030501c05f14$72fb9990$40aefea9@DWARFS> don't you just love Lotus Notes, Rudy And you too Martin When I see your posts I keep thinking how lucky I am to at least have full access to my Lotus Notes account, being able to adjust it in all ways to how I want things. *the chatting one rests* [elfur] From: "rudy" | my apologies for the triple posting | | the company lotus notes server was barfing here, and made it look (via an | arcane error message, which i neglected to screencap) as though the | messages had not been sent, when they had | | usually i manage to keep a pretty cool head when systems die on me, and | i'm a bit peeved that i didn't remember to take the screencap | | i have a small collection, which aren't really all that funny, but which | illustrate how self-centered error message authors can be | | f'rinstance, the previous one i saved from lotus notes said | | Sorry, an uncorrectable error has occurred | Lookuphandle: handle not allocated | Press ENTER to abort the application. | | duh | | | rudy.ca | | _______________________________________________ | http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ | and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: | http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ | From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Dec 5 22:48:55 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Dec 5 22:48:55 2000 Subject: [thesite] the test evolt site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A2D7D66.27535.107B473E@localhost> > From: rudy > > i'm using netscape 4.04 and i have the following problems with the test > site > > 1. why is there a horizontal scrollbar? appears to be a combination of the table width as well as the CSS- assigned page margins... can't seem to find any way around this, and have it validate / work for later browsers... but this isn't new, we discussed this back in june... i was under the impression we were gonna suck it up and leave it... > 2. why is there a gap between the top black tab/bar and the rest of the > content? see above... i leave the rest to jeff, since he addressed them already... From mccreath at ak.net Wed Dec 6 00:19:44 2000 From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath) Date: Wed Dec 6 00:19:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] the test evolt site In-Reply-To: <3A2D7D66.27535.107B473E@localhost> Message-ID: > > 2. why is there a gap between the top black tab/bar and the rest of the > > content? > > see above... > > i leave the rest to jeff, since he addressed them already... Rudy -- I don't have Netscape 4.04, but in 4.75 (Mac and PC) and 4.08 (Mac), Adrian's template doesn't have a gap. http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/ We haven't plugged in the new tab bar yet on the site, so maybe that's it? Dave From roselli at earthlink.net Wed Dec 6 17:04:24 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Wed Dec 6 17:04:24 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Alert - DO NOT APPROVE -- test article In-Reply-To: <3A2E78CA.27951.14516D44@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3A2E7E76.25216.1467948E@localhost> From: "aardvark" [...] > > > what i don't know is if
 tags will automatically be
> > > replaced by  tags.  now that's all gone and i have to write it
again.

thanks,

.jeff

name://jeff.howden
game://web.development
http://www.evolt.org/
mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org




From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Sat Dec 16 21:32:05 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Sat Dec 16 21:32:05 2000
Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Update - The Tao of Testing
In-Reply-To: <200012170328.VAA16368@poet.oracular.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217163125.01a14ff0@mail.paradise.net.nz>

At 21:33 16/12/2000 +0000, you wrote:

>An article on thesite has been updated by an admin.
>
>Article:  The Tao of Testing
>Author:   MartinB
>Date:     12/16/2000
>Time:     9:33 PM CST(-0600)
>Admin:    olineham
>
>Synopsis:
>
>Fred Brooks says that a third of IT development time and effort should be 
>spent in testing. In any software development project, with many people 
>working on the coding, testing is essential to make su

okay, i give up.  i decided to start fixing some synopses (ones with 
sentences cut in the middle), starting with this one.

despite two attempts, it's not committing the changes.  it says it is, but 
actually isn't.



____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From oliver at lineham.co.nz  Sun Dec 17 00:38:40 2000
From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham)
Date: Sun Dec 17 00:38:40 2000
Subject: [thesite] Jobs
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217193824.032c8128@mail.paradise.net.nz>

jobs are still showing up in the main list on the front page - see the 
Dreamweaver one that's at the top of the list now - as well as the "Recent 
jobs" bit in the sidebar.

i expect this is just a simple matter of altering a query or something.



____________________________________________________
     v i b e   m e d i a    http://www.vibe.co.nz/
  po box 10-492              wellington, new zealand
  phone +64 21 210-7845         oliver at lineham.co.nz



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sun Dec 17 00:50:43 2000
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
Date: Sun Dec 17 00:50:43 2000
Subject: [thesite] Jobs
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217193824.032c8128@mail.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: 

    , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : jobs are still showing up in the main list on the front : page - see the Dreamweaver one that's at the top : of the list now - as well as the "Recent jobs" bit in : the sidebar. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ fixed. next? .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 00:54:07 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 00:54:07 2000 Subject: [thesite] Jobs In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217193824.032c8128@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217195501.019319f8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 22:52 16/12/2000 -0800, you wrote: >fixed. > >next? gimmie a sec :)
____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 00:55:01 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 00:55:01 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217194957.033bfed8@mail.paradise.net.nz> On the article editor, the content in the "body" textarea isn't (IMO) being escaped properly. The result is IE5.5 sometimes shows tags, sometimes doesn't (haven't tried other browsers). Example that works right: http://www.evolt.org/article/evolt.org?action=edit&tid=20&aid=4142 (The Tao of Testing) - I can see all the tags,

's etc in the body Example that doesn't work right: http://www.evolt.org/article/evolt.org?action=edit&tid=25&aid=4112 (P3P Project) - I can see a few tags like the and

s, but the

's have been interpreted by the browser and I can't see or edit them. ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 01:00:10 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:00:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217194957.033bfed8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217195942.01d89bd8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 19:56 17/12/2000 +1300, you wrote: >Example that doesn't work right: >http://www.evolt.org/article/evolt.org?action=edit&tid=25&aid=4112 >(P3P Project) - I can see a few tags like the and

s, but >the

's have been interpreted by the browser and I can't see or edit them. Arr, fuck, it's worse than that. i just edited the P3P one's synopsis and IE5.5 actually submitted the body field with the

's stripped. now i have to go back and put them back in. look at another article instead - that Nariworld one or something - which exhibits the bug, please. ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 01:09:19 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:09:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217194957.033bfed8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:

    , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : On the article editor, the content in the "body" : textarea isn't (IMO) being escaped properly. : The result is IE5.5 sometimes shows tags, : sometimes doesn't (haven't tried other browsers). :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ this has nothing to do with the browser. if you view the source of the document you'll see that the only characters that are being replaced are the ampersand (&) with it's html character entity (&). that's all that's necessary to make it work. it will show *everything* else in the textarea as it gets it. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Example that works right: : (The Tao of Testing) - I can see all the tags,

    's etc in the body :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ correct - you can see them cause in the source code too. html tags that are escaped and intended to be viewed on the page they'll appear beginning with <blah>. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Example that doesn't work right: : (P3P Project) - I can see a few tags like the and :

    s, but the

    's have been interpreted : by the browser and I can't see or edit them. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that's because that article did not have any

    tags in it to begin with. if you don't believe me go to the edit screen and view the source. you'll see that there aren't any

    tags anywhere in the body textarea. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 01:10:52 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:10:52 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217195942.01d89bd8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:

      , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : Arr, fuck, it's worse than that. i just edited the : P3P one's synopsis and IE5.5 actually submitted : the body field with the

      's stripped. now i have : to go back and put them back in. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ it never had

      tags in it to begin with - sorry to say. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : look at another article instead - that Nariworld one : or something - which exhibits the bug, please. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ same thing, no

      tags at all, anywhere in it. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 01:16:18 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:16:18 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217194957.033bfed8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217201155.03252bf8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 23:10 16/12/2000 -0800, you wrote: >that's because that article did not have any

      tags in it to begin with. >if you don't believe me go to the edit screen and view the source. you'll >see that there aren't any

      tags anywhere in the body textarea. oh, but it did. example (i haven't touched this article): http://www.evolt.org/article/A_useful_list_of_Office_2000_shortcut_keys/12/4 093/evolt.org There are no

      's in the body at all (look at the code). You can see where they used to be, because the CR/LFs are still there. There were paragraphs there when Rudy wrote the article - bits like the "Why Excel?" section didn't used to be one big block of text - it was multiple paragraphs. As I recall, Rudy edited that article to fix a colouring problem. The paragraphs would've been ripped out at that point. If you still don't believe me that this is a bug, try submitting an article that is just:

      First

      Second

      View it, check the source, it will have

      's. Click the edit link, hit "Update Article!", view the article again and those

      's will be gone. Why aren't you using htmleditformat()?

    ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 01:19:02 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:19:02 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217195942.01d89bd8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217201738.01963de8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 23:12 16/12/2000 -0800, you wrote: >: Arr, fuck, it's worse than that. i just edited the >: P3P one's synopsis and IE5.5 actually submitted >: the body field with the

    's stripped. now i have >: to go back and put them back in. > >it never had

    tags in it to begin with - sorry to say. yeah, it did.. >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >: look at another article instead - that Nariworld one >: or something - which exhibits the bug, please. >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >same thing, no

    tags at all, anywhere in it. because it's been edited since (this is exactly what i'm trying to say :)

____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 01:22:10 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:22:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217195942.01d89bd8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217202027.019ca640@mail.paradise.net.nz> http://www.evolt.org/article/birthday_wishes_from_a_wanna_be_evolt_minion/25 /4233/evolt.org has no

's in it, but it used to - ask meredith. http://www.evolt.org/article/Share_intrusion_information_on_DShield_org/1/41 10/evolt.org has no

's either, it is just one lump of text. it used to be several paragraphs - ask wolf. believe me yet? ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 01:44:27 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:44:27 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217201155.03252bf8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:

    , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : example (i haven't touched this article): : http://www.evolt.org/article/view/12/4093/evolt.org :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ first few lines of the source from the page: This is the plain text version -- there is an Excel sheet available (see below). Product index: Access, Excel, Frontpage, Outlook, Photodraw, Powerpoint, Publisher, and Word.

    Product: Access 2000

    same lines from the source of the edit page: This is the plain text version -- there is an Excel sheet available (see below). Product index: Access, Excel, Frontpage, Outlook, Photodraw, Powerpoint, Publisher, and Word.

    Product: Access 2000

    same lines from the textarea on the edit page: This is the plain text version -- there is an Excel sheet available (see below). Product index: Access, Excel, Frontpage, Outlook, Photodraw, Powerpoint, Publisher, and Word.

    Product: Access 2000

    hate to say it, but they're identical in every way. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : There are no

    's in the body at all (look at the code). : You can see where they used to be, because the CR/LFs : are still there. There were paragraphs there when Rudy : wrote the article - bits like the "Why Excel?" section didn't : used to be one big block of text - it was multiple : paragraphs. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ if you'll notice the first

    tag you encounter in the source is a closing one just before the first named anchor. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : If you still don't believe me that this is a bug, try submitting : an article : that is just: : :

    First

    :

    Second

    : : View it, check the source, it will have

    's. : : Click the edit link, hit "Update Article!", view the article : again and those

    's will be gone. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ tried that - it's the same every time. all the

    tags are exactly where i put them. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Why aren't you using htmleditformat()? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ because it has nothing to do with this problem. furthermore, it aggravates things by removing carriage returns. at least with carriage returns in place when an article is reviewed for the first time we can see where the author intended to break up content into paragraphs and we can then wrap paragraphs with

    tags. don't even get me started on using ParagraphFormat() when displaying the content. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 01:49:09 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 01:49:09 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217201155.03252bf8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217204704.01a11880@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 23:45 16/12/2000 -0800, you wrote: >tried that - it's the same every time. all the

    tags are exactly where i >put them. yes, i see that. i'm still trying to work out what's making IE decide between rendering the

    or displaying it as a tag for editing. >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >: Why aren't you using htmleditformat()? >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >because it has nothing to do with this problem. furthermore, it aggravates >things by removing carriage returns. i never suggested we should be removing carriage returns. you clearly don't believe me that this is a problem. hence, i am interested to know how you explain this: http://www.evolt.org/article/WAP_put_up_or_shut_up/25/4105/evolt.org don't try telling me that's how it is supposed to look. ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From isaac at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 02:13:19 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Sun Dec 17 02:13:19 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > don't even get me started on using ParagraphFormat() when displaying the > content. /me suddenly starts feeling a bit stupid for using paragraphformat() and htmleditformat() extensively... wish i knew why though... ;p i From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 02:54:10 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 02:54:10 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217204704.01a11880@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:

      , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : yes, i see that. i'm still trying to work out what's : making IE decide between rendering the

      or : displaying it as a tag for editing. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the problem isn't occurring with the edit page - that's what i'm trying to tell you. some days ago (before we even went live) i had to remove the ParagraphFormat() from around the output of the content because it was causing some mega-css problems i discovered. on top of that since we're replacing

       blocks with textarea tags we *really* can't use the
      ParagraphFormat() function.
      
      i think the problem you're talking about, specifically with steve's article
      that you mentioned, is that we're no longer wrapping our articles with the
      ParagraphFormat() function.  that means that all those articles that we let
      slide through admin without 

      tags are no going to run together as one big block. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : i never suggested we should be removing carriage returns. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that's one of the things that HTMLEditFormat() does though, which is why we're not using it. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : you clearly don't believe me that this is a problem. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ no, i believe it's a problem - just not where you think it is. the problem is that we've relied on ParagraphFormat() for so long without ever realizing what problems it caused. now the answer is to fix all those articles that slipped through editing without

      tags around each paragraph. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : don't try telling me that's how it is supposed to look. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ it is if you don't wrap paragraphs with

      tags. ;p .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From isaac at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 03:04:04 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Sun Dec 17 03:04:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > articles that slipped through editing without

      tags around each > paragraph. alright, what we need now is a list of articles. a bunch delegated to each person, to go through and fix them all. probably doing the most popular articles first is a good idea. if each person updates their own articles first, we'll be left with a few strays to take care of in the above manner. i'm CC'ing this to admin. can everyone who's written articles find time to go through every single one of their articles. view them. if they're looking weird (mostly paragraphless), fix them by wrapping each paragraph in

      tags. i'm guessing that martin is suddenly regretting writing so many articles - this is what happens when you try to out-submit me! :P (unless of course all of yours are appropriately

      'ed (most of my recent ones should be)). am i right in saying that this is what needs to occur, or should we pause before something else is updated (code-wise)? jeff? green light? i From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 03:08:17 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 03:08:17 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217214642.0191d3a8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 18:45 17/12/2000 +1030, you wrote: > > don't even get me started on using ParagraphFormat() when displaying the > > content. > >/me suddenly starts feeling a bit stupid for using paragraphformat() and >htmleditformat() extensively... paragraphformat() is stupid, but htmleditformat() is not. consider the context of tags nested within a textarea. the purpose of a block-level tag is to describe its contents, and allow appropriate formatting to be applied. for example, a blockquote says "my contents are a quote, so display it like quotes should be displayed". inside a textarea, that doesn't make sense - its contents are indeed a quote, but it is not intended to be displayed as one. rather, we want to see the actual tag text. let me say again, htmleditformat() is your friend. and here's another reason why: http://www.evolt.org/article/evolt.org?action=edit&tid=1&aid=4273 and don't try to tell me tag-filtering is a solution to that one. filtering out tags is a separate issue.

    ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Dec 17 03:11:32 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Dec 17 03:11:32 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217204704.01a11880@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <3A3C3D34.19634.115B1746@localhost> > From: "jeff" [...] > i think the problem you're talking about, specifically with steve's article > that you mentioned, is that we're no longer wrapping our articles with the > ParagraphFormat() function. that means that all those articles that we let > slide through admin without

    tags are no going to run together as one big > block. [...] > the problem is that we've relied on ParagraphFormat() for so long without > ever realizing what problems it caused. now the answer is to fix all those > articles that slipped through editing without

    tags around each > paragraph. i think it's a problem, alright, but maybe not the way you think... all the admins have gotten quite used to editing articles without any

    tags... in fact, we've all seen it add

    at the end of paragraphs (provided there are two cr/lfs)... obviously removing that feature is preferrable since not only is it invalid, but it made inserting carriage returns into code and other things quite annoying... so instead we need to remember to add the

    tags in now (which means opening and closing them properly), since that is not automatically done... i don't think i ever saw a heads-up on that, but i guess this is it... what is odd, though, is why articles submitted before the conversion should have had the

    tags stripped... granted, i didn't read http://www.evolt.org/article/WAP_put_up_or_shut_up/25/4105/evolt. org (his stuff's always hard to digest), so i don't know if it was that way to begin with... and i can't check my own as a point of reference because i completely rebuilt the HTML... so, was it stripped? From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Dec 17 03:18:35 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Dec 17 03:18:35 2000 Subject: [Admin] RE: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A3C3EDB.25990.11618C66@localhost> > From: "isaac" [...] > if each person updates their own articles first, we'll be left with a few > strays to take care of in the above manner. ugh... well, since a good john woo film keeps me up too late anyway, i'll hack a few of mine before the sun comes up... From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 03:26:59 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sun Dec 17 03:26:59 2000 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Update - The Tao of Testing In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217163125.01a14ff0@mail.paradise.net.nz> References: <200012170328.VAA16368@poet.oracular.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217092652.02b51a70@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 03:33 17/12/00, Oliver Lineham wrote: >>Fred Brooks says that a third of IT development time and effort should be >>spent in testing. In any software development project, with many people >>working on the coding, testing is essential to make su > >okay, i give up. i decided to start fixing some synopses (ones with >sentences cut in the middle), starting with this one. The wierd thing is that in the old site, the 200 chars cut off after the word 'essential', which was pretty much OK. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOjyHAXHoHnCoNczLEQJZZACfZNrl08ObmamoqVRKzRQHlQPMQdIAoJ6f HuHw4X6iOCMAji9e0AYB6323 =tiyx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 04:02:35 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 04:02:35 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20001217204704.01a11880@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001217221308.019bced8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 00:55 17/12/2000 -0800, you wrote: >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >: i never suggested we should be removing carriage returns. >:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >that's one of the things that HTMLEditFormat() does though, which is why >we're not using it. humour me for a moment, jeff. i use htmleditformat() all the time for almost identical purposes. right now i'm using it to populate a textarea on a recruitment company website. i just tried, and it isn't stripping carriage returns (despite what the docs say. this wouldn't be the first time the allaire docs are wrong). i am managing to freely enter carriage returns inside my textarea, and they are being reflected when the job vacancy is displayed on the site. this page illustrates this in the simplest way possible: http://www.vibe.co.nz/textarea.cfm to view the CFML source of this page, use http://www.vibe.co.nz/textarea.cfm?source=1 * carriage returns are preserved, so re-editing the code is fine * there is zero chance of any browser rendering the tags within the textarea instead of displaying them as code * anything you enter in the textarea shows up within the page (at the bottom, not in the textarea) just how you would want for something like articles tell me again, what's wrong with htmleditformat()? ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 04:24:04 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 04:24:04 2000 Subject: [thesite] Body edit textarea - not always escaping chars In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001217214642.0191d3a8@mail.paradise.net.nz> Message-ID:

      , :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: Oliver Lineham : : paragraphformat() is stupid, but htmleditformat() : is not. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ we already know i don't agree with you about that, but i'll listen to you argument anyway. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : consider the context of tags nested within a textarea. : the purpose of a block-level tag is to describe its : contents, and allow appropriate formatting to be : applied. for example, a blockquote says "my contents : are a quote, so display it like quotes should be displayed". : inside a textarea, that doesn't make sense - its contents : are indeed a quote, but it is not intended to be displayed as : one. rather, we want to see the actual tag text. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and in all instances, except html character entities, a textarea displays everything *exactly* as it gets it. that means the only thing you have to fix is the html character entities so they'll display as html character entities and not the character they represent. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : let me say again, htmleditformat() is your friend. and : here's another reason why: : : http://www.evolt.org/article/evolt.org?action=edit&tid=1&aid=4273 :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i didn't see what you were referring to because i deleted the article before reading this email, but i'm guessing it had something to do with a closing textarea tag. with that example i see your point about HTMLEditFormat(). i have just made it a point of not using it in the past because it had a nasty habit of stripping carriage returns (learned this the hard way). guess i just like to know exactly what is happening to the data i'm working with. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : and don't try to tell me tag-filtering is a solution to : that one. filtering out tags is a separate issue. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ actually, we're in agreement on this cause tag filtering *is* a whole separate issue. at any rate, tags in textareas will no longer cause problems and i'm not using HTMLEditFormat() to do it so no worries of text going into a black box and not coming out what we expect it to look like. next? .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 09:49:46 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sun Dec 17 09:49:46 2000 Subject: [thesite] [BUG] edit comment Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217155018.02b8cd00@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Just tried to edit a comment, and got this: Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic InformationTemplate file not found. HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not FoundNote: If you wish to use an absolute template path (e.g. TEMPLATE="/mypath/index.cfm") with CFINCLUDE then you must create a mapping for the path using the ColdFusion Administrator. Using relative paths (e.g. TEMPLATE="index.cfm" or TEMPLATE="../index.cfm") does not require the creation of any special mappings. It is therefore recommended that you use relative paths with CFINCLUDE whenever possible. The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFINCLUDE), occupying document position (11:3) to (11:45) in the template file /home/evolt/main_html/evolt/app_comment.cfm.Date/Time: Sun Dec 17 09:53:57 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) Remote Address: 62.31.64.1 HTTP Referer: http://evolt.org/article/After_2_Years_I_m_Finally_Defining_Evolt/25/4212/evolt.org ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOjzg5nHoHnCoNczLEQJ1UQCg/jbY9ymRSb3R/3XJEnlwz16RrkEAoI8l won7N2UEQak/c2mOWoQCVZcr =pcNz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 09:52:30 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sun Dec 17 09:52:30 2000 Subject: [thesite] [BUG] delete comment Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217155205.02b86aa0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Error Occurred While Processing Request Error Diagnostic InformationAn error occurred while evaluating the expression: "#attributes.datasource#"Error near line 72, column 51. Error resolving parameter ATTRIBUTES.DATASOURCE ColdFusion was unable to determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to the fact that either: You have misspelled the parameter name, or You have not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag.The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFQUERY), occupying document position (72:5) to (72:74) in the template file /home/evolt/main_html/evolt/comment/act_process.cfm.Date/Time: Sun Dec 17 09:55:53 2000 Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) Remote Address: 62.31.64.1 HTTP Referer: http://evolt.org/article/After_2_Years_I_m_Finally_Defining_Evolt/25/4212/evolt.org ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOjzhNXHoHnCoNczLEQKBJACdGF38Djq8dxf7BZ38PL3Z43ugOzEAoOkf cxNERl6a/7zhLBQl4nFHdUmM =zhb5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 09:54:44 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sun Dec 17 09:54:44 2000 Subject: [thesite] [BUG] delete comment In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217155205.02b86aa0@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217155429.02b855b0@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is from the 'delete' link in the left hand column (under the 'grrr' report). The one in the Comment header: MartinB wrote on 12/17/2000 at 09:46 AM [delete] just bounced me back to the home page. Neither appear to work. Cheers Martin At 15:52 17/12/00, I wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Error Occurred While Processing Request >Error Diagnostic InformationAn error occurred while evaluating the >expression: "#attributes.datasource#"Error near line 72, column 51. Error >resolving parameter ATTRIBUTES.DATASOURCE ColdFusion was unable to >determine the value of the parameter. This problem is very likely due to >the fact that either: You have misspelled the parameter name, or You have >not specified a QUERY attribute for a CFOUTPUT, CFMAIL, or CFTABLE tag.The >error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of >(CFQUERY), occupying document position (72:5) to (72:74) in the template >file /home/evolt/main_html/evolt/comment/act_process.cfm.Date/Time: Sun Dec >17 09:55:53 2000 >Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) >Remote Address: 62.31.64.1 >HTTP Referer: >http://evolt.org/article/After_2_Years_I_m_Finally_Defining_Evolt/25/4212/evolt.org > > > > > >________________ >Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant >tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 >http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 >http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use >Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB > >iQA/AwUBOjzhNXHoHnCoNczLEQKBJACdGF38Djq8dxf7BZ38PL3Z43ugOzEAoOkf >cxNERl6a/7zhLBQl4nFHdUmM >=zhb5 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > >_______________________________________________ >http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/ >and new & improved kentucky fried old archives: >http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/old/ ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOjziGnHoHnCoNczLEQIRyQCdGsgz4qcd/6jKGpmX9C2XeqXsXOsAoLdW hrqrMhgdYDYEjvGYUuKQbrqZ =GrqZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 11:19:00 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 11:19:00 2000 Subject: [thesite] [BUG] edit comment In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217155018.02b8cd00@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: martin, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: martin burns : : Just tried to edit a comment, and got this: :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ fwiw, those features were to have been turned off. upon checking thesite it appears that *once again* the display file for articles no longer has the changes i made to it, including the pending article message, replacing
       combinations with  combinations, and other
      changes.  it was fine until i went to bed around 3am or so pacific time.
      who's edited it since then?  you can reply to me offlist if you like.
      
      my concern is that all the little things i'm addressing on the live site are
      disappearing too.  please tell me that's not happening.
      
      thanks,
      
      .jeff
      
      name://jeff.howden
      game://web.development
      http://www.evolt.org/
      mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org
      
      
      
      
      From roselli at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 17 11:25:02 2000
      From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 11:25:02 2000
      Subject: [thesite] [BUG] edit comment
      In-Reply-To: 
      References: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217155018.02b8cd00@members.evolt.org>
      Message-ID: <3A3CB0D1.25404.131EC5AA@localhost>
      
      > From: "jeff" 
      > 
      > fwiw, those features were to have been turned off.  upon checking thesite it
      > appears that *once again* the display file for articles no longer has the
      > changes i made to it, including the pending article message, replacing
      > 
       combinations with  combinations, and other
      > changes.  it was fine until i went to bed around 3am or so pacific time.
      > who's edited it since then?  you can reply to me offlist if you like.
      
      aw geez... ok, this has happened twice, which leads me to believe 
      it will happen again... i'd suggest you do some local version control 
      in case this happens some more... that way you can just upload 
      the latest file, without having to worry about what happened...
      
      in the meantime, if anyone is making changes, *always* download 
      the version from the test site and make changes there... but you 
      should let someone know if you are going to edit it...
      
      
      
      
      From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sun Dec 17 11:28:06 2000
      From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 11:28:06 2000
      Subject: [thesite] [BUG] edit comment
      In-Reply-To: 
      Message-ID: 
      
      djc,
      
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      : From: jeff
      :
      : upon checking thesite it appears that *once again*
      : the display file for articles no longer has the changes
      : i made to it, including the pending article message,
      : replacing 
       combinations with  combinations, and other changes.  it was
      : fine until i went to bed around 3am or so pacific time.
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      false alarm everyone.  we have a little disorganization problem with the
      files for thesite.  i happened to be looking at files with the same name
      that are one level up and not being used.
      
      dan, can we please lose all the directories in main_html that are there
      unnecessarily?
      
      thanks,
      
      .jeff
      
      name://jeff.howden
      game://web.development
      http://www.evolt.org/
      mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org
      
      
      
      
      From mccreath at ak.net  Sun Dec 17 11:43:08 2000
      From: mccreath at ak.net (David McCreath)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 11:43:08 2000
      Subject: [thesite] SSURL redirect page
      Message-ID: 
      
      Morning --
      
      I was doing some browsing yesterday, and tried to follow an old-style link
      from aarvark's site to one of his articles on evolt, and the "Upate Your
      Links" page isn't properly formatted (on test or live):
      
      http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=352&catid=21
      
      I can't seem to find the pieces that are building that page... Can anybody
      direct me?
      
      Dave
      
      
      
      
      From joshua at alphashop.net  Sun Dec 17 16:12:53 2000
      From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua OIson)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 16:12:53 2000
      Subject: [thesite] Is the 404 bug figured out yet?
      References: 
      Message-ID: <000f01c06890$77209fe0$0200a8c0@agusta1.ga.home>
      
      I installed PWS on my 98 box with CF and noticed that I get a client side
      404 error using the same ssurl if I did a  and the target of the
      relocation did *another*   If it's not yet figured out, maybe
      check to relocations and make sure you're not doubling up.
      
      -joshua
      
      
      
      
      From roselli at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 17 17:05:26 2000
      From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 17:05:26 2000
      Subject: [thesite] comments outta order
      Message-ID: <3A3D0093.24298.14565F64@localhost>
      
      http://www.evolt.org/article/After_2_Years_I_m_Finally_Defining_Evo
      lt/25/4212/evolt.org
      
      somehow taylor's reply to martin is appear before either my or 
      martin's reply to his original comment...
      
      dig?
      
      
      
      
      From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sun Dec 17 17:11:24 2000
      From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 17:11:24 2000
      Subject: [thesite] comments outta order
      In-Reply-To: <3A3D0093.24298.14565F64@localhost>
      Message-ID: 
      
      aardvark,
      
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      : From: aardvark
      : 
      : http://www.evolt.org/article/view/25/4212/evolt.org
      : 
      : somehow taylor's reply to martin is appear
      : before either my or martin's reply to his original
      : comment...
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      i noticed that too.  not sure why either.
      
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      : dig?
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      no, i don't dig.  i think that sucks.  wonder what's causing it.
      
      another item for the to do list i guess.
      
      .jeff
      
      name://jeff.howden
      game://web.development
      http://www.evolt.org/
      mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org
      
      
      
      From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sun Dec 17 17:14:54 2000
      From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 17:14:54 2000
      Subject: [thesite] Is the 404 bug figured out yet?
      In-Reply-To: <000f01c06890$77209fe0$0200a8c0@agusta1.ga.home>
      Message-ID: 
      
      josh,
      
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      : From: Joshua OIson
      :
      : I installed PWS on my 98 box with CF and noticed
      : that I get a client side 404 error using the same
      : ssurl if I did a  and the target of the
      : relocation did *another*   If it's not yet
      : figured out, maybe check to relocations and make
      : sure you're not doubling up.
      :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      
      thanks for the insight.  since we're using the same sort of architecture as
      the other sites we develop i can't imagine there being more than just a
      single cflocation.
      
      fwiw, i notice that if i go directly to a page that's supposed to have a
      query string (ie, with the question mark) it will give me a 404 whereas if i
      click a link to it i get it just fine.  very odd, but happening somewhat
      predictably for me.
      
      thanks,
      
      .jeff
      
      name://jeff.howden
      game://web.development
      http://www.evolt.org/
      mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org
      
      
      
      
      From isaac at members.evolt.org  Sun Dec 17 17:20:05 2000
      From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 17:20:05 2000
      Subject: [thesite] SSURL redirect page
      In-Reply-To: 
      Message-ID: 
      
      
      > http://www.evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=8&cid=352&catid=21
      >
      > I can't seem to find the pieces that are building that page... Can anybody
      > direct me?
      
      might be in application.cfm somewhere.
      
      
      btw, nice user search (jeff?). i searched for "is" and it returned people
      with "is" in their name, username, or email address.
      
      but is it gonna be dangerous allowing people to search for "a", list 100
      users, and copy them into a db? then "b", etc? there are 1806 users returned
      by the "a" search. i assume i can change the query string to list all of
      them on one page.
      
      maybe we should not show email addresses in that listing?
      
      are the addresses that aren't showing, not showing cos people haven't
      entered one? or just asked them not to be shown?
      
      often having email showing is the only way for people to track you down
      after having read your article.
      
      i think the user search is useful. but i'd prefer that it hid email
      addresses in the results listing.
      
      
      i
      
      
      
      
      From martin at members.evolt.org  Sun Dec 17 17:21:59 2000
      From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 17:21:59 2000
      Subject: [thesite] comments outta order
      In-Reply-To: <3A3D0093.24298.14565F64@localhost>
      Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217232113.02b3d110@members.evolt.org>
      
      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1
      
      At 23:06 17/12/00, you wrote:
      
      >http://www.evolt.org/article/After_2_Years_I_m_Finally_Defining_Evo
      >lt/25/4212/evolt.org
      >
      >somehow taylor's reply to martin is appear before either my or
      >martin's reply to his original comment...
      >
      >dig?
      
      yup - it's actually mine which is out of order. Should be the 3rd
      comment, not the last one.
      
      
      ________________
      Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant
      tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418
      http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32
      http://www.easyweb.co.uk/
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      From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Sun Dec 17 17:36:20 2000
      From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
      Date: Sun Dec 17 17:36:20 2000
      Subject: [thesite] Fwd: [Admin] Article Alert - testing bookmarks
      Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217233412.02b5fc70@pop.easyweb.co.uk>
      
      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1
      
      
      >Title:   testing bookmarks
      >Article:
      >
      >

      >Test 1 This comes out as http://evolt.org/evolt/evolt.org#test1 >

      >

      >test 2 >

      This comes out as http://evolt.org/evolt/#test2 How the hell does a bookmark in a page: http://evolt.org/article/testing_bookmarks/18/4289/evolt.org get interpreted by both IE5.5 and NS6 as either of the above? Oh and http://evolt.org/article/testing_bookmarks/18/4289/evolt.org#test2 works fine Cheers Martin >bookmark1 > >bookmark2 > >Someone want to approve it? > >http://evolt.org/article/testing_bookmarks/18/4289/evolt.org > > >___________________________________________________ >..the phrase "e-business solutions" gives me the skweebies. ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOj1ONXHoHnCoNczLEQKJIQCePsQORpmcuD4mSnIntKe4VNVHk78AnRIG YQPrH/jCN+++9cxJBveVyPDf =0c3S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 17:36:56 2000 From: martin at members.evolt.org (martin burns) Date: Sun Dec 17 17:36:56 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] accesskey and form id attributes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001126230547.00a22010@members.evolt.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 18:36 24/11/00, David McCreath wrote: >couple of questions: > >Are we assigning accesskeys to *all* form elements? We should be >Do we have a standard >for picking the key? We should be >Some forms have both the "name" and "id" attribute and some don't. Should we >be adding the missing piece to the forms that don't have both? Yes. I really think that unless there's a good reason, we should be implementing WAI recommendations. Push back on a case-by-case basis if you don't agree. Cheers Martin ________________ Martin Burns, Content Management Consultant tel: +44 (0)778 068 6418 http://evolt.org/index.cfm?menu=9&uid=32 http://www.easyweb.co.uk/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use Comment: PGP Key ID: 0xA835CCCB iQA/AwUBOiGXoHHoHnCoNczLEQLBhQCgiAXkisl/ILYOE/Ft6yOqhY7j5N0AnAt1 0oxteVRaDAfGsNcx6VXQ26bE =Jt5X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeff at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 17:42:23 2000 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (jeff) Date: Sun Dec 17 17:42:23 2000 Subject: [thesite] SSURL redirect page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: isaac, :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : From: isaac : : btw, nice user search (jeff?). i searched for "is" : and it returned people with "is" in their name, : username, or email address. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ yeah, that's my work. notice that you don't get that search option unless you're logged in. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : but is it gonna be dangerous allowing people to : search for "a", list 100 users, and copy them into : a db? then "b", etc? there are 1806 users returned : by the "a" search. i assume i can change the query : string to list all of them on one page. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that's a good question. that's part of the reason why it's not available until you log in. i figured that we could probably trust our users with the information. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : maybe we should not show email addresses in : that listing? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ that can be done easy enough. question is though - what do you show in the listing? i'm happy to change it to show other things. number of articles written. average rating from all articles written. average number of comments per article. total comments. total rating. i just need some ideas. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : are the addresses that aren't showing, not showing : cos people haven't entered one? or just asked them : not to be shown? :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ some of both i'm guessing. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : often having email showing is the only way for people : to track you down after having read your article. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ true, but if you give people the option to not show their email address, then we have to respect that. however, we could add a contact form to the individual user page if the user has their email turned off. this contact form would use a cfmail and the users email address without exposing it to the person contacting them. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : i think the user search is useful. but i'd prefer that it : hid email addresses in the results listing. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i'm fine with that. i'll give you that if you give me something to put in it's place because even as it is now it looks kinda empty. thanks, .jeff name://jeff.howden game://web.development http://www.evolt.org/ mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org From isaac at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 18:12:31 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Sun Dec 17 18:12:31 2000 Subject: [thesite] SSURL redirect page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > that can be done easy enough. question is though - what do you > show in the > listing? i'm happy to change it to show other things. number of articles > written. average rating from all articles written. average number of > comments per article. total comments. total rating. i just need some > ideas. dump email. keep link to their profile. put in number of articles written. number of comments made number of comments written on their articles maybe duration of membership. that'll give people an idea of how prolific each member in the listing is. i From isaac at members.evolt.org Sun Dec 17 18:12:36 2000 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Sun Dec 17 18:12:36 2000 Subject: [thesite] comments outta order In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217232113.02b3d110@members.evolt.org> Message-ID: > yup - it's actually mine which is out of order. Should be the 3rd > comment, not the last one. did it happen when you edited it? it was it like that previously? i From oliver at lineham.co.nz Sun Dec 17 18:35:16 2000 From: oliver at lineham.co.nz (Oliver Lineham) Date: Sun Dec 17 18:35:16 2000 Subject: [thesite] Fwd: [Admin] Article Alert - testing bookmarks In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001217233412.02b5fc70@pop.easyweb.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001218133517.017ac7f8@mail.paradise.net.nz> At 23:37 17/12/2000 +0000, you wrote: >How the hell does a bookmark in a page: >http://evolt.org/article/testing_bookmarks/18/4289/evolt.org >get interpreted by both IE5.5 and NS6 as either of the above? it's the base: you have to be really careful mixing fu2a-style things with #anchors
    ____________________________________________________ v i b e m e d i a http://www.vibe.co.nz/ po box 10-492 wellington, new zealand phone +64 21 210-7845 oliver at lineham.co.nz From roselli at earthlink.net Sun Dec 17 20:13:13 2000 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sun Dec 17 20:13:13 2000 Subject: [thesite] [html] accesskey and form id attributes In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001126230547.00a22010@members.evolt.org> References: Message-ID: <3A3D2C85.17368.15020E8B@localhost> > From: martin burns i'm only replying to the list, since cc'ing everyone along with this is just silly... i also haven't seen the original message yet... > >Are we assigning accesskeys to *all* form elements? > > We should be no. not all form elements can take the accesskey attribute. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.11.2 "The following elements support the accesskey attribute: A, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, LABEL, and LEGEND, and TEXTAREA." also, if we can't demonstrate what the accesskey is, then we shouldn't use it... for instance, the select menu at the top of every page (which cannot accept 'accesskey' anyway since it is a select menu) would not have one since there is no label to indicate what it would be... also, the textareas that encapsulate
     blocks should not, given their use...
    
    c'mon guys, there's usually a reason why i do things... even if it's lame...
    
    > >Do we have a standard
    > >for picking the key?
    > 
    > We should be
    
    yes... in order to to truly satisfy usability and accessibility requirements, 
    *every* form element should be addressed, and should be addressed in 
    every possible configuration... that being said, we do not have the 
    resources to do that... if an element appears on one page with another 
    element, but without it on yet another page, that can be problematic when 
    assigning accesskeys since you may need to address it on a view-by-view 
    (not page-by-page) basis to avoid doubling up or assigning inappropriate 
    ones...
    
    as a perfect example, somebody completely failed to notice that the 
    comment textarea already had an 'a' assigned as its accesskey, which 
    competes with the 'a' assigned to the article search... that's bad... and an 
    example of why this can be difficult to maintain... read end of message for 
    my recommendation on how to fix this...  assigning accesskeys is not an 
    easy process, and user testing should really be done on a case-by-case 
    basis... something we aren't prepared to do...
    
    in addition to all this, you can truly only have about 26 accesskeys on a 
    page, and then that's assuming that every form element has a label with a 
    letter of the alphabet not being used elsewhere, or one of the remaining 
    letters... after all, what form element might have 'q' in its label?
    
    oh yeah... some are reserved, too... for instance, on a logged-in page, 'a' 
    and 'u' are already taken (where did that double search pop up?  didn't see 
    that until just now)... on a non-logged in page, 'l' is taken, in addition to 'a'... 
    frankly, i had not foreseen a breakdown of the search into two fields, so ya 
    got me there...
    
    aw jeez... and then how do you assign an accesskey when you can't style 
    an underline? like on buttons?
    
    are y'all getting my drift here?
    
    > >Some forms have both the "name" and "id" attribute and some don't. Should we
    > >be adding the missing piece to the forms that don't have both?
    > 
    > Yes.
    
    all form elements should have an 'id' attribute... if form elements contain 
    none, then that's an error on implementation... the 'id' should match the 
    'name', which will also make it much easier when