[thesite] comments on test.evolt.org

.jeff jeff at members.evolt.org
Wed Jun 27 16:58:56 CDT 2001


djc,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Daniel J. Cody
:
:
: > ah, careful what you say kemosabe.
: >
: > several have already listed css as an example.
:
: see last post to iSac for that.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

right, lemme copy-n-paste here for continuity:

  "some others have brought up this point, and
   the big thing thats being overlooked is the
   fact that when I come into evolt.org with
   NS3 I see everything that ie5.5 sees, sans
   colors.

   There is no loss of functionality or content."

is that really true?

let's say we implement the style changer.  i'd say that's a pretty serious
departure from your statement above.

i think we need to all come to an agreement on what is acceptable support
for certain browser/os combinations.  without that, we're going to continue
to run up against this argument -- with no solution in sight.

so, using nn3 (all platforms) as an example, i'd say that as long as the
content is accessible and usable that is satisfactory.  we're not concerned
with the colors the browser displays the content in (provided it's not white
on white or black on black, etc.).

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: dude, don't fucking hang flame bait out like that..
: you *know* that i would have said the same thing if
: you developed it for Opera only. and believe it or
: not, its got nothing to do with you.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i didn't say it as flamebait -- although that was the perception.  from the
way you worded your complaint it sounded like a problem with the fact that
it was currently a ms product only feature.  i never thought it had anything
to do with me at all.  you're publicly very pro-linux and anti-ms.  i was
simply pointing out that it felt like part of your complaint was in that.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: > ah, so there goes dhtml in any fashion.  hell,
: > even javascript is completely
:
: [snipageofwahwah]
:
: dont throw a tantrum.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

instead of just snipping it and dismissing my points as a tantrum, why don't
you take a look at them and address them?  i'm not sure i know anymore
what's acceptable and what's not?  maybe it needs to be broken out.  if
dhtml is out cause it won't work in nn3, then i need to know.  if javascript
is out cause it won't work in lynx, then i need to know that too.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: > am i considering adding my richtext editor as
: > an optional tool for
:
: [snipage of teen-like rebellion]
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sorry you see more valid points (maybe poorly presented) as a rebellion.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: interesting that you're apparently the one and only
: stop for desecions here. i'll save usefull comments
: till you've calmed
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i never said i'm the one that makes the decisions around here.  what i *am*
trying to say is that it feels like everyone is trying to tell me that i'm
not fit to make any at all.  i made a ton of the decisions that went into
the development of v2.0 of thesite.  the product seems to work fine (with a
few exceptions), so i must have done ok with those decisions.

this notion that everyone has to agree on something in order for it to be a
good idea and implement is utopian bullshit.  you can please some of the
people some of the time, but you can't please all of them all the time.  we
have to be able to reach some sort of majority without all this heated
debate.  i, for one, don't have the time to back up every little action.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: its a different issue only in that it happened a couple
: months ago. it has been brought up numerous times here(i
: believe) and on admin. you just choose not to respond,
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

not numerous times.  there was one small thread about it and it died.  i
chose to not respond because i didn't have the time and the end consensus
was that it was annoying but manageable since it was only the admins that
saw it.  that doesn't mean i'm not trying to formalize some way of fixing
it.  time in an issue.  heck, the time i'm spending in defense of an idea
could be spent on that, but obviously everyone is quite adamant about
disliking this feature to the point of affecting other work on thesite.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: like you've choosen not to respond to some of my
: questions in this thread.. *shrug*
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and you've not done the same with some of mine?  maybe some of them haven't
been answered yet cause i haven't had the time to respond to everything in
this thread and defend an idea (that doesn't even happen to be mine, but
would be useful).

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: you found the time to jump in with it to begin
: with, as well as this latest feature..
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and?  what's your point?

again ... am i on the clock when i take time for evolt and expected to
answer to someone else's higher call of priority?

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: > when someone here at evolt.org is signing my
: > f*cking checks *then* they can tell me how to
: > work, what to do, etc.  until then, let's keep
: > in mind that we're all busting our ass, on our
: > own time/dime, and do this cause it's supposed
: > to be fun.  when i'm getting reamed for jumping
: > on an idea that i think would be neat (when i
: > don't really have the time to be doing it anyway),
: > that doesn't make me wanna be so quick to help
: > out in the future.  dig?
:
: hey, reminder: you're not the only one doing work.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i didn't say i was -- notice the bit above "we're all busting our ass, on
our own time/dime".

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: don't get snippy when others that do just as much as
: you get upset when they see zero input on something
: they're working on get changed.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

someone else was working on the display of comments?

or, are you referring to getting zero input on the project you're working
on?

if none of the above, then what are you talking about?

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: yes, we're all busting our ass blah blah. it is fun
: except when you come through like a fucking mac truck
: with a fuck-everyone else attitude. for me at least,
: i can't speak for anyone else.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

huh?  you make it sound like this was all my idea?  it'd be a fuck-everyone
else attitude if i implemented something that broke our foundational
accessibility/usability/functionality.  that's not the case here.  somebody
else came up with the idea and i thought it was a good idea too so tried to
build a prototype to work from.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: you're only getting 'reamed' because this has happened
: before(lack of input, heads up, anything in the way of
: what is going on)
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

maybe because there's something flawed in our "gotta convince a couple of
people first" sort of attitude in our process?

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: i don't know what to tell ya, except that there *are*
: rules here even if they're unspoken.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

unspoken rules are not rules -- they are personal opinion on how things
should be done.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: #1 rule is noone just goes off and does shit because
: we all work together.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i thought rule #1 is you don't build it on the live site when we have a test
site.  i thought that the test site was for implementing ideas like i helped
with on this.  see the problem with unspoken rules?

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: its your choice to help out and be part of that
: group, and we all appreciate that.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i'm getting the feeling it's only appreciated when i take the time to hash
it out and get *everyone's* opinion first.  unfortunately, i rarely have the
time for that.  i wouldn't even be involved in this time-wasting
conversation if i didn't feel that i was being attacked personally.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: don't threaten to take your ball and walk away
: like that either..
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

it's not a threat.  if this ceases to be fun that's where i draw the line.
this isn't something i *have* to do.  it's something i do because i want to.
life is far too short to f*ck around with things that aren't fun.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: its your choice what you spend your time
: on. while you spend it here, i'd expect
: for you - and anyone else - to play by the
: rules
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

like i said -- rules that aren't written down are not rules.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: My statement against platform specific *features* doesn't
: just go for this either.. I just don't think its worth all
: this chatter,
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so why bother?  i sure as hell would have preferred to not get the public
lambasting for the idea/implementation/whatever.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: and still waiting for an answer to:
: http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-June/001901.html
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

answered.

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/






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