[thesite] comments on test.evolt.org

Daniel J. Cody djc at starkmedia.com
Wed Jun 27 18:19:06 CDT 2001


.jeff wrote:


> right, lemme copy-n-paste here for continuity:
> 
>   "some others have brought up this point, and
>    the big thing thats being overlooked is the
>    fact that when I come into evolt.org with
>    NS3 I see everything that ie5.5 sees, sans
>    colors.
> 
>    There is no loss of functionality or content."
> 
> is that really true?
> 
> let's say we implement the style changer.  i'd say that's a pretty serious
> departure from your statement above.


which stylechanger? why would someone be using a stylechanger in ns3?

 
> i didn't say it as flamebait -- although that was the perception.  from the
> way you worded your complaint it sounded like a problem with the fact that
> it was currently a ms product only feature.  i never thought it had anything
> to do with me at all.  you're publicly very pro-linux and anti-ms.  i was
> simply pointing out that it felt like part of your complaint was in that.


my complaint wasn't worded that way, although that was your perception.

being pro-linux or anti-ms has never been an issue, so I'm not sure 
where thats coming from

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : > ah, so there goes dhtml in any fashion.  hell,
> : > even javascript is completely
> :
> : [snipageofwahwah]
> :
> : dont throw a tantrum.
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> instead of just snipping it and dismissing my points as a tantrum, why don't
> you take a look at them and address them?  i'm not sure i know anymore


my fault. how do I address "shit, that'd make html v4 a waste as well. 
while we're at it, let's throw out images too" ? with counter-sarcasm?

> what's acceptable and what's not?  maybe it needs to be broken out.  if
> dhtml is out cause it won't work in nn3, then i need to know.  if javascript
> is out cause it won't work in lynx, then i need to know that too.


ok

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : > am i considering adding my richtext editor as
> : > an optional tool for
> :
> : [snipage of teen-like rebellion]
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> sorry you see more valid points (maybe poorly presented) as a rebellion.


when i see "am i considering adding my richtext editor as an optional 
tool for submitting articles.  you better f*cking believe it." and go on 
to bash mozilla/ns/scripting/whatever, it does come off as rebelious 
jeff. and i didnt, and still dont see, any valid points in there.. just 
frustration

 
> trying to say is that it feels like everyone is trying to tell me that i'm
> not fit to make any at all.  i made a ton of the decisions that went into
> the development of v2.0 of thesite.  the product seems to work fine (with a
> few exceptions), so i must have done ok with those decisions.


sorry it feels that way.. i dont think anyone has said or implied that 
you're not fit to make decisions. i realize that you did make the 
majority of coding for v2, as do we all. the difference between that and 
this is we had a plan of what features we were adding and we had 
eachother(me, you, rudy) there to bounce ideas off. you didn't just go 
ramming whatever you wanted into that version, and thats the difference 
between then and now

 
> this notion that everyone has to agree on something in order for it to be a
> good idea and implement is utopian bullshit.  you can please some of the
> people some of the time, but you can't please all of them all the time.  we
> have to be able to reach some sort of majority without all this heated
> debate.  i, for one, don't have the time to back up every little action.


what if everyone here agrees that its not a good idea except you? is it 
still utopian bullshit because you're one who thinks it is a good idea? 
we're not trying to please everyone either and we do go as a majority.

 
> not numerous times.  there was one small thread about it and it died.  i
> chose to not respond because i didn't have the time and the end consensus
> was that it was annoying but manageable since it was only the admins that
> saw it.  that doesn't mean i'm not trying to formalize some way of fixing
> it.  time in an issue.  heck, the time i'm spending in defense of an idea
> could be spent on that, but obviously everyone is quite adamant about
> disliking this feature to the point of affecting other work on thesite.


we could all be spending our time doing something better, sure. as for 
this affecting other work, wtf? its not like you said, "Ok, well as soon 
as I write this new feature up and implement it and defend it i'm going 
to finish working on that select box" you choose to use your time to do 
this latest feature, and its not anyones fault here if we feel the need 
to question said latest feature.

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : like you've choosen not to respond to some of my
> : questions in this thread.. *shrug*
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> and you've not done the same with some of mine?  maybe some of them haven't
> been answered yet cause i haven't had the time to respond to everything in
> this thread and defend an idea (that doesn't even happen to be mine, but
> would be useful).


thanks for responding to that particular question

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : you found the time to jump in with it to begin
> : with, as well as this latest feature..
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> and?  what's your point?
> 
> again ... am i on the clock when i take time for evolt and expected to
> answer to someone else's higher call of priority?


who said you're on a clock? my point was that you were complaining about 
not having time to finish up other things, yet you had the time do jump 
in and write this latest thing. how you manage your time is your choice, 
i was just pointing out that you're contradicting yourself..

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : don't get snippy when others that do just as much as
> : you get upset when they see zero input on something
> : they're working on get changed.
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> someone else was working on the display of comments?
> 
> or, are you referring to getting zero input on the project you're working
> on?
> 
> if none of the above, then what are you talking about?


let me clarify for you; other people on this list(and not on this list) 
do just as much work as you on evolt. Don't be suprised when they get 
upset if you make changes without their input on something(evolt) that 
they spend as much time more/less than you.

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : yes, we're all busting our ass blah blah. it is fun
> : except when you come through like a fucking mac truck
> : with a fuck-everyone else attitude. for me at least,
> : i can't speak for anyone else.
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> huh?  you make it sound like this was all my idea?  it'd be a fuck-everyone
> else attitude if i implemented something that broke our foundational
> accessibility/usability/functionality.  that's not the case here.  somebody
> else came up with the idea and i thought it was a good idea too so tried to
> build a prototype to work from.
> 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : you're only getting 'reamed' because this has happened
> : before(lack of input, heads up, anything in the way of
> : what is going on)
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> maybe because there's something flawed in our "gotta convince a couple of
> people first" sort of attitude in our process?


so you'd say the 'get no input from other people first, just do it' is a 
better attitude? cus thats wrong. i'm not saying our process is without 
flaws, but i hardly see letting other people know wtf is going on before 
you put it on our website as a *bad* idea.

 
> i thought rule #1 is you don't build it on the live site when we have a test
> site.  i thought that the test site was for implementing ideas like i helped
> with on this.  see the problem with unspoken rules?


cute

 
> i'm getting the feeling it's only appreciated when i take the time to hash
> it out and get *everyone's* opinion first.  unfortunately, i rarely have the
> time for that.  i wouldn't even be involved in this time-wasting
> conversation if i didn't feel that i was being attacked personally.


no one is making you get 'everyones' opinion first and you know it. what 
i'm saying is, 'hey, anyone else besides me and isac think this is a 
good idea? if so, i'll throw some shit up on t.e.o unless people think 
its a bad idea' doesn't take a lot of time

i'm not sure why you think you're being attacked personally, but sorry 
you feel that way

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : don't threaten to take your ball and walk away
> : like that either..
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> it's not a threat.  if this ceases to be fun that's where i draw the line.
> this isn't something i *have* to do.  it's something i do because i want to.
> life is far too short to f*ck around with things that aren't fun.


no ones saying its something you *have* to do, and that goes for anyone 
else too, and everyone already knows that. we all do it because we want 
to, and that goes for everyone else too, and everyone knows that. i'm 
sorry if you aren't having fun right now, neither am i. but you've got 
to respect everyone else here and all the work they do. its your choice.

 
> like i said -- rules that aren't written down are not rules.


so what rules should we have? thoughts?

 
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : My statement against platform specific *features* doesn't
> : just go for this either.. I just don't think its worth all
> : this chatter,
> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> so why bother?  i sure as hell would have preferred to not get the public
> lambasting for the idea/implementation/whatever.


the only lambasting you got woulda been from me, and i didnt mean it 
that way. i'm trying to hold out the olive branch here instead of you 
and i trading endless replies to eachothers posts. i know that neither 
of us is going to back down from our opinions, and thats good. i just 
want to make sure these things don't happen in the future, cus I know 
neither of us like it and would rather be doing cool shit like having 
sex and drinking. :)

so lets work something out i guess. i can understand where you're coming 
from totally. and i hope you understand where I'm coming from too. and 
everyone else..

ttyl

.djc.







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