[thesite] comment searches

Bruce Heerssen bruce at heerssen.com
Sat Nov 17 11:56:56 CST 2001


My major objection to this whole issue is that I don't think we should erect 
barriers to finding information on the site. That just flies in the face of 
promoting an open atmosphere for learning and contributing. For the blow by 
blow, read on...


On Saturday 17 November 2001 01:39, .jeff wrote:

> in your opinion, where do you draw the line between what requires
> registration and what doesn't?  is the line drawn by those things that
> actually require user information to work properly?  or is the line
> somewhere else?  if it's somewhere else, what criteria is used to determine
> where that line is drawn?
>

I think the line is drawn at the point where we need some culpability. Like 
access to the m.e.o server, or list access, or creating articles or comments.

> > The fact is, a whole lot of people do not want to
> > register with the site.
>
> this begs the question why.
>

Perhaps, but the reasons are known only to those that don't want to register. 
I don't think it's worth persuing. If you think it is worth persuing, perhaps 
an examination of other sites might provide some hints. Slashdot, for 
example, has a very large member base - why is that? Personally, I think it's 
because they foster an elitist atmosphere, which is attractive to a lot of 
little snots out there, but that's beside the point. I offer slashdot as an 
example only, I don't mean to suggest that we should or should not be more 
like them.

> > Nobody can change that, period.
>
> not completely, but surely we can lessen the number of people that feel
> this way.
>

You're right to an extent. We could perhaps convince a slight few who would 
not otherwise register, but the overwhelming majority still would not.

> > Not offering regular users the same search functionality
> > as registered users discriminates against the former.
>
> it would be discriminatory if the users that were left out were left out
> because of something they couldn't change.  however, 2 minutes of their
> time and that barrier is no longer there.
>

 From experience so far, two minutes of their time seems to be enough of a 
barrier. You and I may think it's not much of a barrier, but evidence 
suggests otherwise.
<snip>

> > On the other hand, if we allow regular users this search
> > functionality, it should enhance evolt's image because
> > regular users would see added functionality that other
> > sites don't have.
>
> i'm sure it would, but at what expense?  if we give everything away for
> free, what do we have left to give the non-registered users a reason to
> register?
>

The ability to post articles and comments is a pretty powerful hook. However, 
this begs the question, why do we need so many people to register with w.e.o? 
When is enough, enough? We already have an impressive readership, and an 
impressive mailing list.

> > In this light, I fail to see how requiring registration
> > for any sort of search of public areas in the site can
> > offer any added value to our visitors, and by extension,
> > to evolt itself.
>
> how about protecting the information of our existing member base?
>
> by your theory, the user search should be available to the casual user.
> what's to keep that casual user from harvesting all the information?  sure,
> they could create an account and then do it, but that barrier seems to stop
> most.
>

Uhh... What user search? I've never seen such a thing, and I can't find it 
now. In any case, spammers are known to go to great lengths to get this sort 
of info. Registration doesn't seem too much of a barrier. Not requiring a 
registration for this sort of search would cut down on the number of bogus 
registrations, and we already have mechanisms in place to stop spiderts (to 
use dan's term).

> do you want the casual site user to be able to easily find your user record
> in the system?

Absolutely. That's why I put everything in plain view on my site. I don't, 
and never have had a problem with spam. In any case, I know where the delete 
button is. But I understand your point. If there really is a user search, it 
should be either 1) restricted to administrators to use, or 2) opt in 
(members are not included in it unless they specifically agree to it in their 
preferences).

> > As for the hooks to registration, I agree that there
> > should be some, but surely offering free web space is
> > enough?
>
> m.e.o. isn't the core piece of evolt.org.  the centerpiece is w.e.o.  the
> hooks for registration to w.e.o. need to exist within w.e.o.
>

In that case, we have the list sign-up, which if I'm not mistaken, signs one 
up for w.e.o also? If not, it should. And then there is the ability to add 
comments and new articles. With the coming of ueue (soon, I hope?), this hook 
only gets stronger

> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > If you want new hooks for registering, how about a code
> > library or something?
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> already created and recreated ad nauseam everywhere else and publicly
> available.
>

Agreed. Just an example.
<snip>
> i'd like to work on additional
> hooks, but i don't know what they are yet.
>

Me neither. Perhaps this is a good topic for a questionaire on the site. When 
in doubt, ask. Anyone care to start a new thread on this? Perhaps we could 
come up with a list of questions and a database to store the answers, and a 
tool for generating the report. This should be fairly simple.

> > P.S. - Jeff, you posted a great comment on javascript
> > today - the one explaining how variables work inside
> > functions. I thought it was very clear and concise. How
> > about encapsulating it in a tip sometime? Or maybe even
> > an article?
>
> yeah, i've been asked to do that offlist by a couple other list members and
> thought when i was writing it that it'd work well for that.  i'll do that
> as soon as i have time to put some polish on it along with a few helpful
> illustrations.
>

Right on, I look forward to it.

Regards,
Bruce




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