From r937 at interlog.com Sat Sep 1 21:31:28 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Sep 1 21:31:28 2001 Subject: [thesite] (OT) spam or what? Message-ID: <01c13356$bf6d4d20$ec4b149a@rudy> > Clever spam, which is even worse...Or am I just getting paranoid???? hi peter this one isn't nearly as clever, but i kind of admire the chutzpah in asking people to contact an overseas phone number to verify that their email address is well and truly alive and that the person using it is a simpleton... oh, and i guess i've just disqualified myself from the winnings... oh well... rudy <>><><><><><><><><> EL GORDO NETHERLANDS SWEEPSTAKES LOTTERY, n.l, BURDENSTRAAT 21B, 2053 DS AMSTERDAM, THE NETHERLANDS. TEL/ FAX: 31 617730370 FROM: THE DESK OF THE PROMOTIONS MANAGER, INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPARTMENT, REF: EGS/2551256003/03 BATCH: 14/0017/IPD ATTENTION: RE/ AWARD NOTIFICATION; FINAL NOTICE We are pleased to inform you of the announcement today, 1ST SEPTEMBER, of winners of the EL GORDO NETHERLANDS SWEEPSTAKE LOTTERY/ INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMS held on 16TH AUGUST 2001. Your company, attached to ticket number 012-4257-5862-012, with serial number 5237-24 drew the lucky numbers 13-15-22-37-39-43, and consequently won the lottery in the 3rd category. You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay out of US$1,200,000.00 in cash credited to file REF NO. EGS/5214036002/03. This is from total prize money of US$20,400,000.00 shared among the seventeen international winners in this category. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn form 25,000 names from Australia, New Zealand, America, Europe and North America as part our International Promotions Program, which is conducted annually. CONGRATULATIONS! Your fund is now deposited with a Finance and Security House insured in your name. Due to the mix up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award strictly from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your account. This is part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unscrupulous acts by participants of this program. We hope with a part of you prize, you will participate in our end of year high stakes US$1.3 billion International Lottery. To begin your claim, please contact your claim agent; DANNY TAYLOR, FOREIGN SERVICE MANAGER, GLOBAL CROSSING, AMSTERDAM, n.l TEL: 31 619676795 FAX: 31 619690723 For due processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice. Remember, all prize money must be claimed not later than 15TH SEPTEMBER 2001. After this date, all funds will be returned as unclaimed. NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference and batch numbers in every one of your correspondences with your agent. Furthermore, should there be any change of your address, do inform your claims agent as soon as possible. Congratulations again from all our staff and thank you for being part of our promotions program. Sincerely, THE PROMOTIONS MANAGER, EL GORDO NETHERLANDS SWEEPSTAKES LOTTERY, n.l. N.B. Any breach of confidentiality on the part of the winners will result to disqualification. From charnon3000 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 21:45:58 2001 From: charnon3000 at yahoo.com (Isaac Charnon) Date: Sat Sep 1 21:45:58 2001 Subject: [thesite] (OT) spam or what? In-Reply-To: <01c13356$bf6d4d20$ec4b149a@rudy> Message-ID: <20010902024136.28265.qmail@web20608.mail.yahoo.com> uh, what? Excuse me? This is a private email address. please keep your hands and comments to yourself thank you sir. --- rudy wrote: > > Clever spam, which is even worse...Or am I just > getting paranoid???? > > hi peter > > this one isn't nearly as clever, but i kind of > admire the chutzpah in > asking people to contact an overseas phone number to > verify that > their email address is well and truly alive and that > the person using > it is a simpleton... > > oh, and i guess i've just disqualified myself from > the winnings... > > oh well... > > > rudy > > <>><><><><><><><><> > > > EL GORDO NETHERLANDS SWEEPSTAKES LOTTERY, n.l, > BURDENSTRAAT 21B, > 2053 DS AMSTERDAM, > THE NETHERLANDS. > TEL/ FAX: 31 617730370 > > FROM: THE DESK OF THE PROMOTIONS MANAGER, > INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPARTMENT, > REF: EGS/2551256003/03 > BATCH: 14/0017/IPD > > ATTENTION: > RE/ AWARD NOTIFICATION; FINAL NOTICE > > We are pleased to inform you of the announcement > today, 1ST SEPTEMBER, of winners of the EL GORDO > NETHERLANDS SWEEPSTAKE LOTTERY/ INTERNATIONAL > PROGRAMS > held on 16TH AUGUST 2001. > > Your company, attached to ticket number > 012-4257-5862-012, with serial number 5237-24 drew > the > lucky numbers 13-15-22-37-39-43, and consequently > won > the lottery in the 3rd category. > > You have therefore been approved for a lump sum pay > out of US$1,200,000.00 in cash credited to file REF > NO. EGS/5214036002/03. This is from total prize > money > of US$20,400,000.00 shared among the seventeen > international winners in this category. All > participants were selected through a computer ballot > system drawn form 25,000 names from Australia, New > Zealand, America, Europe and North America as part > our > International Promotions Program, which is conducted > annually. > > CONGRATULATIONS! > > Your fund is now deposited with a Finance and > Security > House insured in your name. Due to the mix up of > some > numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award > strictly from public notice until your claim has > been > processed and your money remitted to your account. > This is part of our security protocol to avoid > double > claiming or unscrupulous acts by participants of > this > program. > > We hope with a part of you prize, you will > participate > in our end of year high stakes US$1.3 billion > International Lottery. > > To begin your claim, please contact your claim > agent; > DANNY TAYLOR, > FOREIGN SERVICE MANAGER, > GLOBAL CROSSING, > AMSTERDAM, n.l > TEL: 31 619676795 FAX: 31 619690723 > > For due processing and remittance of your prize > money > to a designated account of your choice. > > Remember, all prize money must be claimed not later > than 15TH SEPTEMBER 2001. After this date, all funds > will be returned as unclaimed. > > NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and > complications, please remember to quote your > reference > and batch numbers in every one of your > correspondences > with your agent. Furthermore, should there be any > change of your address, do inform your claims agent > as > soon as possible. > > Congratulations again from all our staff and thank > you > for being part of our promotions program. > > > Sincerely, > > THE PROMOTIONS MANAGER, > EL GORDO NETHERLANDS SWEEPSTAKES LOTTERY, n.l. > > N.B. Any breach of confidentiality on the part of > the > winners will result to disqualification. > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From r937 at interlog.com Sat Sep 1 21:55:03 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Sep 1 21:55:03 2001 Subject: [thesite] (OT) spam or what? Message-ID: <01c1335a$08669ba0$ec4b149a@rudy> dear Isaac Charnon i sent my note to thesite at lists.evolt.org decidedly *not* private, i assure you did you subscribe to this list in error? or are you one of my buddies with a yahoo address pulling my leg? rudy From skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Sat Sep 1 23:14:45 2001 From: skaiser1 at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns) Date: Sat Sep 1 23:14:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] table cells suddenly centering... In-Reply-To: <01c131a8$8309aa40$5449149a@rudy> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010901210530.027c5b70@mail.midtown.net> At 04:07 PM 08/30/2001, you wrote: >can't remember where i heard that there was a solution for this... > >apparently in ie6 table cells no longer default their contents left, >everything is centered > >i am not about to install ie6 (and that's a different thread) so i cannot >test the workarounds myself > >anybody know the right way to restore things? > >i suppose the brute force way is to change to ? > >does TD { text-align: left } fix it? > >what about the doctype, any influence of "quirks" mode or whatever >microsoft calls it? > > >rudy There's a thread about this via webdesign-L -- Eric Meyer, Joe Crawford, others: Date: aug. 31, 2001 Subject: (incorrectly) centered content in IE6 (artlung.com I can copy/paste the info if needed here, but what you're suggesting, Rudy, is what I believe the answer was. Eric Meyer gave a terrific explanation of what's going on and why that's happening. I flagged it. Warmly, Shirley -- Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A. SKDesigns mailto:skaiser1 at skdesigns.com Website Development http://www.skdesigns.com/ Pianist, Composer http://www.shirleykaiser.com/ Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html From r937 at interlog.com Sat Sep 1 23:26:32 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Sep 1 23:26:32 2001 Subject: [thesite] table cells suddenly centering... Message-ID: <01c13366$ce207940$ec4b149a@rudy> > There's a thread about this via webdesign-L thanks, shirley, i saw that thread and james aylard posted a nice article on evolt yesterday which suggested taking the URI out of the doctype so that ie6 reverts to "quirks" mode Does IE 6 Center Your Table Content? http://evolt.org/article/foo/17/15341/index.html simple and sweet rudy From charnon3000 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 2 13:29:11 2001 From: charnon3000 at yahoo.com (Isaac Charnon) Date: Sun Sep 2 13:29:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] (OT) spam or what? In-Reply-To: <01c1335a$08669ba0$ec4b149a@rudy> Message-ID: <20010902182454.92362.qmail@web20610.mail.yahoo.com> Lol!. This was just a misunderstanding. I thought that you were being spammed and the smapper was using my email address. I forgot I was subscribed to the list. Sorry. So how come I was able to read this message? --- rudy wrote: > dear Isaac Charnon > > i sent my note to thesite at lists.evolt.org > > decidedly *not* private, i assure you > > did you subscribe to this list in error? > > or are you one of my buddies with a yahoo address > pulling my leg? > > > rudy > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Sep 4 15:15:53 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Sep 4 15:15:53 2001 Subject: [thesite] august stats Message-ID: <3B953302.5060801@starkmedia.com> August stats for the evolt.org sites are in: 1.2 Million 'hits' 500K page views(first time over half a mil!!) 77.5K distinct hosts served 51Gb data transferred(another first!) 17K page views per day of interest: the 500K page view total may be a bit low. apparently, analog doesn't count 404's as page views. due to our URL scheme, apache writes every viewed article to the error log, hence, none of the articles get counted for anything. this sucks, but if we assume 1 in 5(a low estimate IMO) of the 147,838 'Failed requests' were actually page views, we can figure another 29K or so page views that aren't getting reported. although if we said that every time isaac.css (the main stylesheet) got pulled up, we'd have 45K page views that aren't being reported. not a huge thing, but some people have asked me privatly why articles don't show up in the stats at times.. if there's a budding statistical analyst in the crowd and would like to do some plotting for us, lemme know :) google, 'dynamicdrive', altavista, my digital-web article, and martin's new york pictures round out the top 5 referers for the month 'admins' held 3 of the top 5 positions for hits on m.e.o again(jeff, me, david(the 'veritas' account has been inactive since week 1 aug)) i cut off the logs around midnight on the 30th, because i was taking off for the weekend(yes i roll them manually :), which gives us one less day to work with, but that extra day will be reflected in next months stats. lastly, we had a kick ass month for content on w.e.o - very high quality articles are leading to more referers from other web forums, etc. IMO, the best month we've ever had in terms of quality and quanity.. although september *is* shaping up pretty nice as well nice job and a big thanks to all the authors that contribute their content, time and energy :) http://browsers.evolt.org/stats/stats.aug2001.html as always, feel free to shout if there are questions or comments .djc. From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 4 16:32:34 2001 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue Sep 4 16:32:34 2001 Subject: [thesite] weo slow? Message-ID: <0b07e2216180491PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk> Anyone else finding weo really slow? Cheers Martin _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From gnarly at punkass.com Tue Sep 4 17:06:01 2001 From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson) Date: Tue Sep 4 17:06:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] weo slow? References: <0b07e2216180491PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <001101c1358c$f5ad1860$9865fea9@uridium> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Burns" Subject: [thesite] weo slow? > Anyone else finding weo really slow? Seems fine here (Opera 5.12, Win2k, 33.6). Olly - www.gnarly.f2s.com - From martin at easyweb.co.uk Tue Sep 4 17:53:35 2001 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Tue Sep 4 17:53:35 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: voting app Message-ID: <05bf03113220491PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk> Daniel J. Cody wrote on 4/9/01 10:48 pm >walker is also on vacation till at least the end of this week, so you >can try to reach him when he gets back for new features OK Cool. What we have is really good - once we're using it, now's the time to start noting the stuff we need to make it really sing. Cheers Martin _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From emeyer at lclark.edu Tue Sep 4 18:31:49 2001 From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer) Date: Tue Sep 4 18:31:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: voting app In-Reply-To: <05bf03113220491PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <05bf03113220491PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: http://admin.evolt.org/vote/ Some things I notice in Mac IE5: - When I first pull the site up, the white space on the right is empty (maybe that's just a default state). - Visited links disappear completely. - I see the option to add a question, but not the option to remove questions. - I tried to log out of a.e.o. 3 times w/o success (could this. I realize a lot of these fixes may be in the works, but anyway, since it has come into discussion, that's what I've noticed. Also, since I wasn't around at the inception, I realize that I'm speaking from a point of not knowing nothing about nothing... so get out the grains of salt... General comments: This stuff has probably already been considered, but: 1. voting is a process that needs to have a beginning and an ending time. However we work it, it's something that is part of any formal voting process. 2. since voting needs to end at some point, it would make sense to be able to turn voting on or off on certain issues, so the app doesn't represent the tally as something other than what it is. 3. would be great if we could archive/record results of votes with the app... though we could also do that by hand. 4. +1 on Isaac's ideas about email. Erika -- From djc at starkmedia.com Tue Sep 4 23:02:14 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Tue Sep 4 23:02:14 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Update - .au Redelegated Despite Opposition References: <3B9563FE.9597.947397@localhost> Message-ID: <3B95A319.5020307@starkmedia.com> couple things :) features for next april fools are cool, but aren't there more pressing issues that we have to implement?(user images, stylesheets, member pages, etc(and not that i'm trying to stomp out a cool idea here or anything, but its like, 8 months away)) this should probably be on thesite list anyways, its a very cool idea, just a bit out there time wise .djc. .jeff wrote: > isaac, > > >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>From: isaac >> >> >>>there we go, how's that for next april fool's? >>>reverse all the text strings when they're pulled >>>from the db? >>> >>+1 from me. aardvark wrote: >>From: ".jeff" >> >>nope, simple as shit. would take about 10 minutes total to implement. >> > > ok code monkey.. .bring it on... > > let's see some samples... From roselli at earthlink.net Tue Sep 4 23:08:19 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Tue Sep 4 23:08:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Update - .au Redelegated Despite Opposition In-Reply-To: <3B95A319.5020307@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <3B956BFB.9680.B3A8D5@localhost> > From: "Daniel J. Cody" > > couple things :) i only count one... must have forgotten the other point that would act like the blocker for this one... > features for next april fools are cool, but aren't there more pressing > issues that we have to implement?(user images, stylesheets, member > pages, etc(and not that i'm trying to stomp out a cool idea here or > anything, but its like, 8 months away)) hey, we're just brainstorming there, daddy(-o)... although i consider it much cooler than user style sheets... > this should probably be on thesite list feh, what do they... er... hi everybody! > anyways, its a very cool idea, just a bit out there time wise damn straight it's cool... From martin at easyweb.co.uk Wed Sep 5 01:13:41 2001 From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns) Date: Wed Sep 5 01:13:41 2001 Subject: [thesite] Fwd: weo slow? Message-ID: <0b4394346200491PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk> Anyone else finding weo really slow? Slow on page view, fails to load on article update preview Slow for comment preview, commit & delete (but loads) Cheers Martin _______________________________________________ email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland From djc at members.evolt.org Wed Sep 5 09:10:50 2001 From: djc at members.evolt.org (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Wed Sep 5 09:10:50 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: Fwd: weo slow? In-Reply-To: <0b4394346200491PCOW025M@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: martin - i asked a couple random people on irc today to try it out and they had no problems.. also, i'm not seeing a problem on page loads from a couple different machines around the net. the DB times are right where they should be too.. ?? .djc. On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Martin Burns wrote: > Anyone else finding weo really slow? > > Slow on page view, fails to load on article update preview > > Slow for comment preview, commit & delete (but loads) > > Cheers > Martin > > _______________________________________________ > email: martin at easyweb.co.uk PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB > martin at members.evolt.org snailmail: 30 Shandon Place > tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985 Edinburgh, > url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk Scotland > From djc at starkmedia.com Thu Sep 6 00:21:53 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Sep 6 00:21:53 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [Admin] Article Update - Breadcrumbs in Javascript References: Message-ID: <3B970743.407@starkmedia.com> this is on my list of things to talk about during codefest .djc. isaac wrote: > i also wonder if we could increase readership of older articles by linking > related articles together. ie, "if you liked this article, you might also > find _these_ interesting". that linking would probably be done manually > rather than amazon-style. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 09:11:31 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 09:11:31 2001 Subject: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements Message-ID: <017f01c136dd$505b0820$05a9fea9@mef> Hi Folks .... Anyone have their travel arrangements made for Codefest? Can you send me the details please, either via thesite or privately is fine too. I'll put together a page with all the information on it. If you're driving, let me know your estimated time of arrival too please. Any locals planning on attending as well? Thanks, Michele From gnarly at gmx.co.uk Thu Sep 6 12:11:18 2001 From: gnarly at gmx.co.uk (Olly Hodgson) Date: Thu Sep 6 12:11:18 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Idea Message-ID: <023f01c136f6$327508b0$9865fea9@uridium> Hi all, Whilst browsing the latest set of tips, I had an idea for them. Why not get the harvester software to write them out in a more structured fashion, eg: --- Author: Bill Is (bill-is at peace.with.himself.com) Type: Type of tip Comment: this is a good one! Blah blah blah... --- Author: Jon Is (jon-is at peace.with.himself.com) Type: Type of tip Comment: this is good too! Blah blah blah... --- etc... It could leave out fields (author/type/comment etc) that arent specified in the tip, or just put "Type: unknown" or whatever instead. Discuss... Olly - www.gnarly.f2s.com - From djc at starkmedia.com Thu Sep 6 12:15:58 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Sep 6 12:15:58 2001 Subject: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements References: <017f01c136dd$505b0820$05a9fea9@mef> Message-ID: <3B97ABCB.8060305@starkmedia.com> ya, this would be a good thing so i can start figuring out how many rooms to get too :) miriam, jeremy sap., greg sampson, a high school groupie or two from the suburbs, and hopefully jeremey ash. from chicago, and a couple people i work with are locals going to be here too :) Michele Foster wrote: > Hi Folks .... > > Anyone have their travel arrangements made for Codefest? > > Can you send me the details please, either via thesite or privately is fine > too. I'll put together a page with all the information on it. > > If you're driving, let me know your estimated time of arrival too please. > > Any locals planning on attending as well? From hblair at hotfootmail.com Thu Sep 6 12:36:59 2001 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Thu Sep 6 12:36:59 2001 Subject: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements In-Reply-To: <3B97ABCB.8060305@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: I've been quiet about this so far, but I'm trying to clear my schedule for the weekend. I probably won't know until almost the last minute, but if I can attend, I can haul 2-3 folks from O'Hare to the North Woods. I'll jump into the conversation later when I have my schedule set. -Hugh Living in Schaumburg, 60173, 13 miles west of O'Hare. > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements > > > > > Any locals planning on attending as well? > From mwarden at mattwarden.com Thu Sep 6 12:58:05 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Thu Sep 6 12:58:05 2001 Subject: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements In-Reply-To: <017f01c136dd$505b0820$05a9fea9@mef> Message-ID: Michele, I'm driving. If people need a ride from Chicago to Milwaukee (like from O'Hare), I'll coordinate my arrival time with their flight arrival times, so I dunno my ETA. If youre keeping track of shit like that too, I can seat two passengers max. Mccreath and Dexter pre-called those seats, but I think we'll have to wait until flights are in stone to figger all that out. werd? -- mattwarden mattwarden.com On Sep 6, Michele Foster had something to say about [thesite] Codefest: ... >If you're driving, let me know your estimated time of arrival too please. From djc at starkmedia.com Thu Sep 6 12:58:37 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Thu Sep 6 12:58:37 2001 Subject: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements References: Message-ID: <3B97B5C9.7080304@starkmedia.com> great! would be a blast if you could make it hugh :) i love how you chicagoans call milwaukee(1.25 hours north) the 'north woods' ;) Hugh Blair wrote: > I've been quiet about this so far, but I'm trying to clear > my schedule for the weekend. I probably won't know until > almost the last minute, but if I can attend, I can haul > 2-3 folks from O'Hare to the North Woods. I'll jump into > the conversation later when I have my schedule set. > > -Hugh > Living in Schaumburg, 60173, 13 miles west of O'Hare. > > >>-----Original Message----- >>Subject: Re: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements >> >> >>>Any locals planning on attending as well? >>> > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite > From hblair at hotfootmail.com Thu Sep 6 13:11:10 2001 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:11:10 2001 Subject: [thesite] Codefest: Travel Arrangements In-Reply-To: <3B97B5C9.7080304@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: Sorry, but one of the first things I was taught was that everything above the Lake/Cook line was called "Behind the Cheddar Curtain". And I thought I was being gentle... :) -Hugh > great! would be a blast if you could make it hugh :) > > i love how you chicagoans call milwaukee(1.25 hours north) the 'north > woods' ;) From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 13:28:13 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:28:13 2001 Subject: [thesite] weo bug? (Editing Comments Before Publishing) References: <20010828110430.3f6ed660.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk> Message-ID: <02bc01c13701$2fcc55e0$05a9fea9@mef> Folks, I can confirm this as being an error for non-admin users. The error happens regardless of whether "Remember Me" is on or off. Can someone get to this sometime this week, please. I'll add to aeo if no one has time this week. Thanks GC for pointing it out... sometimes ya gotta bring up an issue more than once to get others to notice it and respond though. ;) Thanks, Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrett Coakley" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:04 AM Subject: [thesite] weo bug? (Editing Comments Before Publishing) | | I've just been writing a quick reply to joobars comment on my PHP/Apache | article: | | http://www.evolt.org/article/view/17/15049/index.html#comments | | Now, after I wrote my reply I went to preview it, and found that I'd | made a mistake (haven't had coffee yet), but clicking "Edit" dropped me | to a page saying I wasn't authorised to edit the comment. | | I could go back and edit it by using my back button, and it's up there | now, but is this something that needs to be looked at? | | G. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 13:31:34 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:31:34 2001 Subject: [thesite] [bug]Bug on weo : Submission style guide References: <20010817134210.397912b3.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk> <3B7D9087.1010709@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <02c101c13701$a76391e0$05a9fea9@mef> Folks, I've nothing to add here .. except just reposting as this is still an error. Confirmed both Admin and general users, same problem. Can someone get to it this week, please? Or I'll add to aeo's lotd. Thanks, Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" | thanks garrett - | | jeff, evolt/dsp_sidebar.cfm isn't taking into account that the page may | not have a section and subsection.. IOW, its happening on all articles | that have a keyphrase. | | i'll try jerking around with it this weekend unless you get their first.. | | thanks, | | .djc. | | Garrett Coakley wrote: | > | > Odd little hiccup, if you bring up the Submission Style guide... | > | > http://evolt.org/guide_code/index.html | > | > and then try to minimize the sidebar, the location switches to | > | > http://evolt.org/article/index.html?sidebar=0 | > | > And you get the following error: | > | > article not found | > Sorry, the article you are looking for could not be found. | > | > G. From jeff at members.evolt.org Thu Sep 6 13:45:07 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:45:07 2001 Subject: [thesite] weo bug? (Editing Comments Before Publishing) In-Reply-To: <02bc01c13701$2fcc55e0$05a9fea9@mef> Message-ID: michele, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Michele Foster > > I can confirm this as being an error for non-admin > users. The error happens regardless of whether > "Remember Me" is on or off. > > Can someone get to this sometime this week, please. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< fixed. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Thu Sep 6 13:56:06 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:56:06 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Idea In-Reply-To: <023f01c136f6$327508b0$9865fea9@uridium> References: <023f01c136f6$327508b0$9865fea9@uridium> Message-ID: <20010906190649.14812@polytechnic.co.uk> On Thu, Sep 6, 2001, Olly Hodgson said: >Hi all, > >Whilst browsing the latest set of tips, I had an idea for them. Why not get >the harvester software to write them out in a more structured fashion, eg: +1 G. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk From jeff at members.evolt.org Thu Sep 6 13:58:39 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Thu Sep 6 13:58:39 2001 Subject: [thesite] [bug]Bug on weo : Submission style guide In-Reply-To: <02c101c13701$a76391e0$05a9fea9@mef> Message-ID: michele, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Michele Foster > > I've nothing to add here .. except just reposting as > this is still an error. Confirmed both Admin and > general users, same problem. > > Can someone get to it this week, please? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< fixed. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 14:13:46 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 14:13:46 2001 Subject: [thesite] [bug]Bug on weo : Submission style guide References: Message-ID: <02f201c13707$8cbed560$05a9fea9@mef> Thanks Jeff!! Works fine now. Mich *crosses item off lotd* ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" | michele, | | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | > From: Michele Foster | > | > I've nothing to add here .. except just reposting as | > this is still an error. Confirmed both Admin and | > general users, same problem. | > | > Can someone get to it this week, please? | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | | fixed. | | thanks, | | .jeff From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 14:15:38 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 14:15:38 2001 Subject: [thesite] weo bug? (Editing Comments Before Publishing) References: Message-ID: <02f901c13707$b713a020$05a9fea9@mef> Thanks Jeff!! This too, works fine now. Mich *crosses item off lotd* ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" | michele, | | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | > From: Michele Foster | > | > I can confirm this as being an error for non-admin | > users. The error happens regardless of whether | > "Remember Me" is on or off. | > | > Can someone get to this sometime this week, please. | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | | fixed. | | thanks, | | .jeff From mwarden at mattwarden.com Thu Sep 6 15:11:45 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Thu Sep 6 15:11:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: new features - average rating received Message-ID: >Before that happens, can someone suggest how it's going to >work? > >My 1st thoughts: >The mathematical mean of all the ratings given to all of >a user's approved articles is displayed in similar but >distinct way to the 'number of articles' cubes. The >similar but distinct way might include doing those >cubes differently, but it would have to be a stonkingly >good idea to mess with the existing (pretty damn good) >standard (which took an age to think through, and let's >not revisit that without a damned good reason). IMO, it ought to be much like the ratings display for articles: mean of all ratings our of # of ratings total and, IMO, it ought to only show up on the user page. thankz0rz, -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From roselli at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 15:31:15 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Thu Sep 6 15:31:15 2001 Subject: [thesite] (Fwd) Re: new features - average rating received Message-ID: <200109062031.f86KVEE08095@leo.evolt.org> oops... wrong list ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "aardvark" To: admin at lists.evolt.org Date sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:10:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Admin] new features - average rating received Priority: normal Send reply to: admin at lists.evolt.org total every rating for every article an author has written... obviously non-ratings are not zeros... do a simple average -- divide number of ratings into total rating score, factor to two decimals to mimic ranking on home page... display results in some fashion on author page, not on individual articles... protoype functional capability as plain text, worry about design independently of technical implementation... Name: James Aylard Email: jaylard%40members.evolt.org User Since: 11/18/1999 Last Login: 09/06/2001 Articles Written: 8 Average Rating: 4.29 out of 5 dig? ___________________________________________________ shits, giggles, and babies ------- End of forwarded message ------- From dmah at shaw.ca Thu Sep 6 22:33:01 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Thu Sep 6 22:33:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Idea In-Reply-To: <023f01c136f6$327508b0$9865fea9@uridium> from "Olly Hodgson" at Sep 06, 2001 06:05:54 PM Message-ID: <200109070331.VAA04076@alice.monkeyland.ca> All of the tips are in the database and are slowly being classified as to their category. What we need is a way of searching the tips and presenting them. The tip harvests as you see them now are going to be obsolete once this is done. With the CF frontend, hopefully, we'll be able to customize the appearance of the tips for each person viewing them as well as present a default view. Dean Olly Hodgson writes: > Whilst browsing the latest set of tips, I had an idea for them. Why not get > the harvester software to write them out in a more structured fashion, eg: > > --- > Author: Bill Is (bill-is at peace.with.himself.com) > Type: Type of tip > Comment: this is a good one! > > Blah blah blah... > --- > Author: Jon Is (jon-is at peace.with.himself.com) > Type: Type of tip > Comment: this is good too! > > Blah blah blah... > --- > > etc... > > It could leave out fields (author/type/comment etc) that arent specified in > the tip, or just put "Type: unknown" or whatever instead. > > Discuss... > > Olly > - www.gnarly.f2s.com - From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 22:48:01 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 22:48:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] Category Definitions .. (Was: Re: [***] new features - average rating received References: Message-ID: <009601c1374f$56a236a0$4438fea9@mef> Jeff, I agree with this 100%. It's actually an FAQ I've been thinking to write for a while now .. just haven't decided what the best approach would be to writing it. When Isaac first brought up the new "Web Business" proposed category, this is one of the suggestions I had to help "launch" the category. It was one of the problems that we noticed with the AnswerThis Category. Anyway, I've no problem writing up some definitions .. finding existing ones, and pulling together the proposed content for this. Unfortunately, it will be mid next week, for my timetable. Someone else is more than welcome to do it if they want. How would your proposed implementation work, i.e. a description on each category page? I was thinking an FAQ, but I like your idea better. Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" | | this brings to mind a need i've been seeing. we need to have some | intro/descriptive text for each category. this text would then be displayed | at the top of every category listing of articles. this would eliminate the | need to have an article in the category that explains the category (and | which eventually falls off the first page and out of sight). | From michele at wordpro.on.ca Thu Sep 6 22:53:51 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Thu Sep 6 22:53:51 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category Message-ID: <00a001c13750$26211c20$4438fea9@mef> Hi Folks, Further to the messages from last week with respect to the FAQ category, I didn't see any objections to renaming the FAQ category to "evolt FAQs" or "evolt.org FAQs". If no objections, can someone with db access modify the category name for both live and teo dbs. (Jeff, all references to FAQ category in the code would be to the number not the name, correct?) Thanks, Michele From javier at msm.cl Fri Sep 7 09:48:20 2001 From: javier at msm.cl (mantruc) Date: Fri Sep 7 09:48:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] article randomizer? Message-ID: <3B98DD3A.9A719D9@msm.cl> hi, sorry for being so quiet this week, been overloaded. anyway, my mind keeps on thinking of evolt... i had an idea for the site: i've realized -correct me if the logs say otherwise- that once the articles leave the home page, their visits drop fast. we still have many quality articles that soon get lost into categories and have never been rated. i was wondering if it would be worth the effort pulling some random old articles to the home page, to give them new life... thoughts? -- Javier Velasco M. - nurun Chile Information Architect - http://www.nurun.cl ----------------------- -------------------------- -- Personal: http://mantruc.com -- -- Member of http://evolt.org -- From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 7 09:51:29 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Fri Sep 7 09:51:29 2001 Subject: [thesite] Wanted: beta testers for new d.e.o. feature Message-ID: Hi, I've been working on a new feature for the evolt directory, but before I release it into the wild I'd appreciate it if a few people could take a look and point out any problems they might find. It's a bookmarklet to make it much easier to make suggestions to the site. You can install it by visiting this page: http://members.evolt.org/simonc/bookmarklet.html I'd like it to be as platform/browser independent as possible so if it doesn't work for you then please let me know your OS/Browser combination. All comments/thoughts are welcome. Cheers! Simon From djc at starkmedia.com Fri Sep 7 10:01:10 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:01:10 2001 Subject: [thesite] Wanted: beta testers for new d.e.o. feature References: Message-ID: <3B98DDA9.8010506@starkmedia.com> cool idea! win98 on both netscape 6.1 and moz 0.9.3 i can add it to my bookmarks, but can't drag it to my toolbar.(this is probably a bug with moz though) worked dandy in ie 5.5 i'll give it a whirl in linux later unless someone beats me too it :) .djc. Simon Coggins wrote: > Hi, > > I've been working on a new feature for the evolt directory, but before I > release it into the wild I'd appreciate it if a few people could take a > look and point out any problems they might find. > > It's a bookmarklet to make it much easier to make suggestions to the > site. You can install it by visiting this page: > > http://members.evolt.org/simonc/bookmarklet.html > > I'd like it to be as platform/browser independent as possible so if it > doesn't work for you then please let me know your OS/Browser combination. > > All comments/thoughts are welcome. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Fri Sep 7 10:01:12 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:01:12 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants Message-ID: <003a01c137ad$4b627c60$4438fea9@mef> Hi Folks, A very preliminary list of CodeFest 2001 participants is posted here: http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/cf_attend.htm Please send additions/modifications. Thanks, Michele From miriam at dynagirl.com Fri Sep 7 10:07:24 2001 From: miriam at dynagirl.com (Miriam) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:07:24 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants References: <003a01c137ad$4b627c60$4438fea9@mef> Message-ID: <005701c137ae$271fd7c0$79cff3cd@walthers.com> Hi Michele! Nope, don't need a hotel... ;) Looking forward to meeting you! Miriam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Foster" To: Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 9:56 AM Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants > Hi Folks, > > A very preliminary list of CodeFest 2001 participants is posted here: > > http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/cf_attend.htm > > Please send additions/modifications. > > Thanks, > > Michele > > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Sep 7 10:22:02 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:22:02 2001 Subject: [thesite] Category Definitions .. (Was: Re: [***] new features - average rating received In-Reply-To: <009601c1374f$56a236a0$4438fea9@mef> Message-ID: michele, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Michele Foster > > How would your proposed implementation work, i.e. a > description on each category page? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< yes, we'd need a description column on the categorys table with a datatype of long. then, in the category add/edit/delete interface (which i've yet to build) we'd need to add a text area for managing the new column. finally, at the top of the article listing pages we'd output this category description. the one exception would be the home page as it's a collection of content from all categories. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Sep 7 10:27:27 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:27:27 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category In-Reply-To: <00a001c13750$26211c20$4438fea9@mef> Message-ID: michele, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Michele Foster > > If no objections, can someone with db access modify > the category name for both live and teo dbs. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< i'll leave this one to djc or rudy. and, can we please use "evolt.org FAQ"? FAQ by its very definition is a collection and therefore plural. there's no need to tack additional plurality to it. besides that trailing "s" just looks silly. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > (Jeff, all references to FAQ category in the code > would be to the number not the name, correct?) ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< yes, with one exception. the "directory" in the url is hardcoded to "faq" i believe, but that's as it should be. evolt.org_faq would look silly. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From michele at wordpro.on.ca Fri Sep 7 10:30:57 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:30:57 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category References: Message-ID: <006101c137b1$8ee81cc0$4438fea9@mef> ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" | | i'll leave this one to djc or rudy. and, can we please use "evolt.org FAQ"? | | FAQ by its very definition is a collection and therefore plural. there's no | need to tack additional plurality to it. besides that trailing "s" just | looks silly. hehehehehe "silly" ya say, eh? ;) Ok, works for me. evolt.org FAQ Mich From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri Sep 7 10:32:55 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Fri Sep 7 10:32:55 2001 Subject: [thesite] Wanted: beta testers for new d.e.o. feature In-Reply-To: <3B98DDA9.8010506@starkmedia.com> References: <3B98DDA9.8010506@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <20010907162945.38db1ce1.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk> On Fri, 07 Sep 2001 09:46:01 -0500, "Daniel J. Cody" wrote: > cool idea! +100 > i'll give it a whirl in linux later unless someone beats me too it :) Works here on Linux 2.4.3 / Mozilla 0.9.3 I'd tweaked my mozilla preferences to restrict sites from opening new windows, so I had to reinstall my default prefs file. Once that was done, it worked fine. Would there be any way of getting it to fail to the current browser window if someone has their browser set up like this? It's becoming more prevalent in browsers these days. Moz will have a UI for it in the prefs in ver1.0, and Omniweb and iCab for Mac OSX also have this option. But.. yeah, top work fella *:) G. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 7 11:02:34 2001 From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins) Date: Fri Sep 7 11:02:34 2001 Subject: [thesite] Wanted: beta testers for new d.e.o. feature In-Reply-To: <20010907162945.38db1ce1.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk> Message-ID: > I'd tweaked my mozilla preferences to restrict sites from opening new > windows, so I had to reinstall my default prefs file. > > Once that was done, it worked fine. Would there be any way of getting it > to fail to the current browser window if someone has their browser set > up like this? It all depends on if I can detect the absence of support for the window.open method. If so I could do something along the lines of: if (window.open) { window.open(newurl); } else { document.location.href = newurl; } Without checking I don't think the above code would work (since open is a method) but I will experiment further. Maybe something like: if (!window.open(newurl)) { document.location.href = newurl; } would work instead (assuming window.open() returns false if it fails, rather than throwing an error). Okay, enough of my rambling. In short I'll look into it and see what I can do. Simon From jungwirr at yahoo.com Fri Sep 7 11:23:45 2001 From: jungwirr at yahoo.com (Russell Jungwirth) Date: Fri Sep 7 11:23:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] Addition to CodeFest roster Message-ID: <20010907162000.61691.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com> I will be accompanying Miriam Frost to the 'Fest. Though I've not been active on the list, I've been active at the gatherings. I will be a local participant. Regards, Russell Jungwirth __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From sgd at ti3.com Fri Sep 7 11:44:11 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Sep 7 11:44:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants Message-ID: I wanna sleep on Dan's floor, if that's okay (I'm presuming that will be the comfy spot closest to the bottle of Sapphire).... and I may fly direct into OshKosh, or Milwaukee, or St Paul, or ride with Matt, or have a herd of chickens with me. Won't know until I pull the trigger (next week).... (Dan, whaddya think about a Wed or Thurs arrival?) dex > -----Original Message----- > From: Michele Foster [mailto:michele at wordpro.on.ca] > > http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/cf_attend.htm > From djc at starkmedia.com Fri Sep 7 11:50:48 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Sep 7 11:50:48 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants References: Message-ID: <3B98F75A.4020401@starkmedia.com> Scott Dexter wrote: > I wanna sleep on Dan's floor, if that's okay (I'm presuming that will be > the comfy spot closest to the bottle of Sapphire).... only if my hand containing the bottle of saphire is on the floor too ;) as far as hotels go, i'm probably just gonna foot the bill for 2 or three of them fri - sat to make it easier on everyone so don't worry *too* much about accomidations :) > and I may fly direct into OshKosh, or Milwaukee, or St Paul, or ride > with Matt, or have a herd of chickens with me. Won't know until I pull > the trigger (next week).... since i live in milwaukee, thats probably you're best bet ;) > (Dan, whaddya think about a Wed or Thurs arrival?) rock! :) although you'd have to entertain yourself durning the day, but theres actually a fair amount of things to do here before it snows :) but ya, no prob! From r937 at interlog.com Fri Sep 7 12:23:57 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:23:57 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category Message-ID: <01c137c1$4e508480$3b50149a@rudy> > i'll leave this one to djc or rudy. okay, i got it -- i'll do it in t.e.o first > and, can we please use "evolt.org FAQ"? kay > we'd need a description column on the categorys > table with a datatype of long. long? kay we're not going to be writing novels in there though, right? i'll try to get to this later today matt, your contcat design is #1 on the list i'm gonna do an insert/select from your contentattr table to see if it fits... rude stewed in a fine mood From mwarden at mattwarden.com Fri Sep 7 12:32:50 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:32:50 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sep 7, Scott Dexter had something to say about RE: [thesite] CodeFest: ... >and I may fly direct into OshKosh, or Milwaukee, or St Paul, or ride >with Matt, or have a herd of chickens with me. Won't know until I pull >the trigger (next week).... > >(Dan, whaddya think about a Wed or Thurs arrival?) Yeah, actually I think i'll be taking off ASAP on Thursday. I can take the hit of the extra hotel night's stay and i'd rather not be really rushed. But, if Mccreath really needs a ride on Friday, i'm ok with that too. -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From djc at starkmedia.com Fri Sep 7 12:34:11 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Sep 7 12:34:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category References: <01c137c1$4e508480$3b50149a@rudy> Message-ID: <3B990180.3000500@starkmedia.com> rudy - one thing about making that LONG - i'm not sure which table its going in, but in oracle you can only have one LONG datatype per table. maybe we should start looking at CLOB's or maybe a varchar2 (4000) ? would 4000 chars be enough to define a category? .djc. rudy wrote: >>we'd need a description column on the categorys >>table with a datatype of long. >> > > long? kay > > we're not going to be writing novels in there though, right? > > i'll try to get to this later today From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Sep 7 13:04:37 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Fri Sep 7 13:04:37 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category In-Reply-To: <3B990180.3000500@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: djc, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: Daniel J. Cody > > i'm not sure which table its going in [...] ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< categorys ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > [...] but in oracle you can only have one LONG > datatype per table. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ok, that's officially stupid. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > maybe we should start looking at CLOB's or maybe a > varchar2 (4000) ? would 4000 chars be enough to define > a category? ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< yes, 4000 characters should be more than sufficient. thanks, .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From djc at starkmedia.com Fri Sep 7 13:21:04 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Sep 7 13:21:04 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category References: Message-ID: <3B990C6D.6020304@starkmedia.com> .jeff wrote: > djc, > ok, that's officially stupid. i know theres a good reason for it, just can't think of it.. LONG was never meant to be used the way we use it either :) >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >>maybe we should start looking at CLOB's or maybe a >>varchar2 (4000) ? would 4000 chars be enough to define >>a category? >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< >> > > yes, 4000 characters should be more than sufficient. oky. .djc. From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk Fri Sep 7 13:49:52 2001 From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley) Date: Fri Sep 7 13:49:52 2001 Subject: [thesite] Wanted: beta testers for new d.e.o. feature In-Reply-To: References: <20010907162945.38db1ce1.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010907194555.0deea149.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk> On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:58:48 +0100 (BST), Simon Coggins wrote: > It all depends on if I can detect the absence of support for the > window.open method. Javascript is not my bag I'm afraid, but if it helps any, this is the page that references the way this is set under mozilla: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/components/configPolicy.html > Okay, enough of my rambling. In short I'll look into it and see what I > can do. Who da man? If you need any more help testing, just holler. G. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/ PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/ From mwarden at mattwarden.com Fri Sep 7 14:32:58 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Fri Sep 7 14:32:58 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category In-Reply-To: <3B990C6D.6020304@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: On Sep 7, Daniel J. Cody had something to say about Re: [thesite] Renaming... >> ok, that's officially stupid. > >i know theres a good reason for it, just can't think of it.. LONG was >never meant to be used the way we use it either :) Um, 'cuz it has to be stored at the end of a table? because it's actually a pointer... or is that *LOBs? -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From michele at wordpro.on.ca Fri Sep 7 23:45:35 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Fri Sep 7 23:45:35 2001 Subject: [thesite] Category Definitions .. (Was: Re: [***] new features - average rating received References: Message-ID: <019001c13820$8b5384e0$4438fea9@mef> Jeff, Thanks .. I get it.. I can't do it, but I get it. ;) Did you have some text already prepared, or would you like me to create a first draft for everyone to review? (would be mid next week before I can). Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: ".jeff" | michele, | | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | > From: Michele Foster | > | > How would your proposed implementation work, i.e. a | > description on each category page? | ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< | | yes, we'd need a description column on the categorys table with a datatype | of long. then, in the category add/edit/delete interface (which i've yet to | build) we'd need to add a text area for managing the new column. finally, | at the top of the article listing pages we'd output this category | description. the one exception would be the home page as it's a collection | of content from all categories. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Fri Sep 7 23:47:16 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Fri Sep 7 23:47:16 2001 Subject: [thesite] Renaming FAQ Category References: <01c137c1$4e508480$3b50149a@rudy> Message-ID: <019501c13820$d3837040$4438fea9@mef> Thanks Rudy for doing making the modifications to the DB. :) Michele ----- Original Message ----- From: "rudy" | > i'll leave this one to djc or rudy. | | okay, i got it -- i'll do it in t.e.o first | From michele at wordpro.on.ca Fri Sep 7 23:55:12 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Fri Sep 7 23:55:12 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants References: Message-ID: <019e01c13821$ecbbee60$4438fea9@mef> Scotty, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Dexter" | or have a herd of chickens with me. Please leave the herd of chickens at home. Else I'll be forced to bring a herd of Moose .. or is that David .. perhaps I'll bring Buffalo .. nope, that would be Adrian. Damn, I'll bring theCats!!! ;) Keep me posted on the details .. if others are arriving earlier, I can too ... my ticket is transferable... woohoo! (Sidenote: Scott, Matt and I on our own .. let's recode thesite in ASP ;) ) Michele (This is sooo incredibly off-topic I should owe a tip.) From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Sep 8 13:44:44 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Sep 8 13:44:44 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester Message-ID: <006c01c13895$cd6c6480$8520fea9@mef> Hi Folks, What's happened with the Tip Harvester email notifications to thelist? The last one that I can find in the archives is from August 6th. http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010813/010822.html Was a decision made not to send these out anymore? Or is it just not working properly? I see all the tips archived on leo, however. Thanks, Michele From dmah at shaw.ca Sat Sep 8 16:42:08 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Sat Sep 8 16:42:08 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester In-Reply-To: <006c01c13895$cd6c6480$8520fea9@mef> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 08, 2001 02:40:58 PM Message-ID: <200109082140.PAA02180@alice.monkeyland.ca> Sorry, I did the last three weeks worth of tip harvesting at one time. I didn't think that there was any value in sending the notifications out since they were harvested late. I'll send the notification out with the next batch. Dean Michele Foster writes: > What's happened with the Tip Harvester email notifications to thelist? The > last one that I can find in the archives is from August 6th. > > http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20010813/010822.html > > Was a decision made not to send these out anymore? Or is it just not > working properly? I see all the tips archived on leo, however. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Sep 8 16:55:20 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Sep 8 16:55:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvester References: <200109082140.PAA02180@alice.monkeyland.ca> Message-ID: <00c801c138b0$5ffb7880$8520fea9@mef> Dean. Ahh ok .. I wasn't sure if it was a trigger you flipped to send the messages or not. Haven't talked to ya in ages .. hope ya doing well. :) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Mah" | Sorry, I did the last three weeks worth of tip harvesting at one time. | I didn't think that there was any value in sending the notifications | out since they were harvested late. I'll send the notification out | with the next batch. | | Dean | | | Michele Foster writes: | | > What's happened with the Tip Harvester email notifications to thelist? The | > last one that I can find in the archives is from August 6th. From mwarden at mattwarden.com Sat Sep 8 19:09:54 2001 From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt) Date: Sat Sep 8 19:09:54 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category Message-ID: >There hasn't been any objection to the new category that I've seen. It >already exists, and would just be a simple matter of activating it on >live and test DB's. set to active on teo. easy to change back if there ends up being opposition to this. SQL> select categoryid, category, active from categorys; CATEGORYID CATEGORY ACTIVE ---------- -------------------------------------------------- ---------- 1 News 1 4090 IA/Usability 1 4091 Web Business 0 12 Reviews & Links 1 17 Code 1 18 Backend 1 20 Site Development 1 21 Software 1 22 Visual Design 1 23 Jobs 1 25 Commentary & Society 1 26 Suggestions 1 9741 FAQ 1 10047 Answer This! 0 14 rows selected. SQL> update categorys set active=1 where categoryid=4091; 1 row updated. SQL> commit; Commit complete. thans, -- mattwarden mattwarden.com From michele at wordpro.on.ca Sat Sep 8 19:56:21 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Sat Sep 8 19:56:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category References: Message-ID: <00e201c138c9$bab6ab00$8520fea9@mef> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warden, Matt" | | set to active on teo. easy to change back if there ends up being | opposition to this. Thanks, Matt. Rudy, Didn't you update the FAQ category name the other day? Did the change not work? | CATEGORYID CATEGORY ACTIVE | ---------- -------------------------------------------------- ---------- | 9741 FAQ 1 Thanks, Michele From r937 at interlog.com Sat Sep 8 20:43:19 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Sat Sep 8 20:43:19 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category Message-ID: <01c138d0$2f6fe5a0$4b4a149a@rudy> > Didn't you update the FAQ category name the other day? not yet sorry dead tired From sgd at ti3.com Mon Sep 10 09:33:52 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:33:52 2001 Subject: [thesite] codefest agenda? Message-ID: I know bringing it up may cause me to be the owner, but I'll take that risk. Do we have an agenda/checklist of items to be accomplished during codefest3? (besides hang out, party, and write code) I haven't been paying enough attention to even start an initial list ("Off to the archives with you!"), but if someone can spin one up off the top of their head I'll take it from there.... (digging up a couple cents) sgd -- work: http://ti3.com/ non: http://thinksafely.org/ From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Sep 10 09:39:49 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:39:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] codefest agenda? References: Message-ID: <01bd01c13a05$c84b2560$8520fea9@mef> Working on it here Scotty .... probably be ready later this afternoon. I've got a very "rough" list already, others can add to it once I get it all together and post it. Thanks :) Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Dexter" | I know bringing it up may cause me to be the owner, but I'll take that | risk. | | Do we have an agenda/checklist of items to be accomplished during | codefest3? (besides hang out, party, and write code) From sgd at ti3.com Mon Sep 10 09:42:49 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:42:49 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Participants Message-ID: > that would be Adrian. Damn, I'll bring theCats!!! okay okay, theChickens stay home. Promise. > ... my ticket is transferable... woohoo! (Sidenote: Scott, > Matt and I on > our own .. let's recode thesite in ASP ;) ) hmm. Be a good idea to show a real-world example of Fusebox in ASP. Think we can do it in a weekend? (remember to take hangovers into account) sgd From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Sep 10 09:51:51 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Sep 10 09:51:51 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category References: <00e201c138c9$bab6ab00$8520fea9@mef> Message-ID: <3B9CD015.3090109@starkmedia.com> i just updated it.. evolt FAQ is what it says now. if thats not kosher, lemme know :) .djc. Michele Foster wrote: > > Rudy, > > Didn't you update the FAQ category name the other day? Did the change not > work? From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Sep 10 10:00:24 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Sep 10 10:00:24 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category References: <00e201c138c9$bab6ab00$8520fea9@mef> <3B9CD015.3090109@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <01d001c13a08$d17771e0$8520fea9@mef> Dan, I think it was agreed to be "evolt.org FAQ" http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-September/1563323.html Is that ok? Either way is fine with me, actually. Mich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel J. Cody" | i just updated it.. evolt FAQ is what it says now. if thats not kosher, | lemme know :) From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Sep 10 10:03:58 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Sep 10 10:03:58 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category References: <00e201c138c9$bab6ab00$8520fea9@mef> <3B9CD015.3090109@starkmedia.com> <01d001c13a08$d17771e0$8520fea9@mef> Message-ID: <3B9CD2ED.3000709@starkmedia.com> oky, updated :) .djc. Michele Foster wrote: > Dan, > > I think it was agreed to be "evolt.org FAQ" > http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2001-September/1563323.html From r937 at interlog.com Mon Sep 10 10:13:03 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Mon Sep 10 10:13:03 2001 Subject: [thesite] Re: [*dmin] Web Business Category Message-ID: <01c13a0a$990c7920$a54a149a@rudy> >oky, updated :) >> I think it was agreed to be "evolt.org FAQ" dan, if you can shoot me the password for the test database, i wanted to do some work on matt's category content (attributes) as well as add the categorys remarks column varchar2(4000) rude From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Sep 10 18:45:21 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Sep 10 18:45:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] finally? Message-ID: <3B9D4CBD.8090402@starkmedia.com> testing From djc at starkmedia.com Mon Sep 10 18:49:25 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Mon Sep 10 18:49:25 2001 Subject: [thesite] finally? References: <3B9D4CBD.8090402@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <3B9D4DB1.5040901@starkmedia.com> ugh. well *that* was a !@(*^!#@*&! &&!@^!@&!@& anywyas, looks like MG is back up and at it, some of his config files got corrupted(?) and that led to 'issues'. *very* sorry about the large amount of downtime this afternoon/evening, i miss my evolt mail just as much as the rest of you - and just in time for monday night football!! :) thanks for everyone's patience, i'll keep on eye on everything, feel free to contact me if you notice any more oddities! :) one bonus: we upgraded to sendmail 8.12.0 today. .djc. Daniel J. Cody wrote: > testing > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Sep 10 20:50:05 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Sep 10 20:50:05 2001 Subject: [thesite] Just Another Test Message-ID: <002c01c13a63$3b2c0b00$06dafea9@mef> Testing ...... M From ronwhite at gate.net Mon Sep 10 21:33:35 2001 From: ronwhite at gate.net (Ron White) Date: Mon Sep 10 21:33:35 2001 Subject: [thesite] Moving email across lists Message-ID: Sorry about the cross post, but I want to make sure everyone sees this... I'm sure I am not the only one who uses [thechat], [thelist] and [thesite] to sort email into different folders. So could you all please remove whatever one is in the header when you move the discussion to a different list? Thanks, Ron White From isaac at members.evolt.org Mon Sep 10 21:40:39 2001 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Mon Sep 10 21:40:39 2001 Subject: [thesite] RE: [thelist] Moving email across lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Sorry about the cross post, but I want to make sure everyone sees this... > > I'm sure I am not the only one who uses [thechat], [thelist] and [thesite] > to sort email into different folders. So could you all please remove > whatever one is in the header when you move the discussion to a different > list? Sorry to do this to you (reply-to-all will contribute to the problem you've mentioned), but I have success with sorting based on the sender in Outlook 2000: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org thechat-admin at lists.evolt.org Totally eliminates the sorting problem you've mentioned. isaac -------------------------------------------------------------- triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067 (08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au From michele at wordpro.on.ca Mon Sep 10 21:45:43 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Mon Sep 10 21:45:43 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Updated Files and LOTTD Message-ID: <003e01c13a6b$1ca87bc0$06dafea9@mef> Hi Folks, I've updated the CodeFest files. You can access them here: http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/ A Working Draft of the proposed list of things to do has also been created. Additions and modifications should be discussed on thesite. Holler if you have any questions. Michele From isaac at members.evolt.org Mon Sep 10 22:06:53 2001 From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac) Date: Mon Sep 10 22:06:53 2001 Subject: [thesite] RE: [Admin] CodeFest: Updated Files and LOTTD In-Reply-To: <003e01c13a6b$1ca87bc0$06dafea9@mef> Message-ID: > I've updated the CodeFest files. You can access them here: > http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/ I have concerns that the user defined stylesheet features may sap development time which could be better directed at other features. As much as we have become excited about it in the past, and justified the glitz by noting that people with poor eyesight would benefit, are we not simply duplicating a feature available in most modern browsers (IE has it, and I'd certainly expect Netscape 6 and Mozilla to have it also)? Or is it notably different due to the custom style applying only to the evolt site? How will the shit-to-do-list proposed by Michele be prioritised in the days leading up to the codefest? isaac From dmah at shaw.ca Mon Sep 10 23:00:07 2001 From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah) Date: Mon Sep 10 23:00:07 2001 Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Updated Files and LOTTD In-Reply-To: <003e01c13a6b$1ca87bc0$06dafea9@mef> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 10, 2001 10:40:25 PM Message-ID: <200109110357.VAA03964@alice.monkeyland.ca> Next step in Tip Harvester development? Eventually, one of the goals should be to meet the original tip harvesting requirement at: http://members.evolt.org/martin/thetips/reqs.html if everyone still agrees with them. Immediately, it would be good to have an interface to search and display tips. Something similar to what Seth did for thelist messages would be good to display a week's worth of tips. We also need to get the tips classified by a canonical tip type eventually so search by type is meaningful. Dean Michele Foster writes: > I've updated the CodeFest files. You can access them here: > http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/ > > A Working Draft of the proposed list of things to do has also been > created. Additions and modifications should be discussed on > thesite. > > Holler if you have any questions. From michele at wordpro.on.ca Tue Sep 11 07:19:59 2001 From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster) Date: Tue Sep 11 07:19:59 2001 Subject: [thesite] RE: [Admin] CodeFest: Updated Files and LOTTD References: Message-ID: <007201c13abb$5a136380$06dafea9@mef> Isaac, ----- Original Message ----- From: "isaac" | I have concerns that the user defined stylesheet features may sap | development time which could be better directed at other features. Noted - thanks. | How will the shit-to-do-list proposed by Michele be prioritised in the days | leading up to the codefest? Once we have a better idea of who is coming to CodeFest and what their specific skill levels are, we'll be in a better position to determine which tasks can be done. We'll need to take into consideration how much time each task will take, and who is capable and willing to work on that task. Let's spend the next couple of weeks brainstorming various ideas, further discussing the various options on the proposed LOTTD, then we'll work at pulling together a master list. Thanks, Michele From ronwhite at gate.net Tue Sep 11 08:09:11 2001 From: ronwhite at gate.net (Ron White) Date: Tue Sep 11 08:09:11 2001 Subject: [thesite] TWO PLANES KAMIKAZEED the World Trade Center!! Message-ID: Thanks, Ron White From r937 at interlog.com Fri Sep 14 11:03:35 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri Sep 14 11:03:35 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: <01c13d36$0edd5880$7046149a@rudy> can one of you network gurus please walk me through the process of finding out what's wrong when my site comes up with the error message "The page you are ooking for is currently unavailable." which seems to indicate that it's my web server however, when i enter http://rudy.ca/ into the address bar, it sits there for a *looooong* time with the message "Finding http://rudy.ca/" which seems to indicate that it's a dns lookup problem i stretched my network diagnostics skills to the maximum and opened a dos window and tried "ping rudy.ca" but again, it just sat there, with that stupid blinking cursor, for several minutes, and then came back with "Unknown host" is this a dns problem, and what do i do to find this out for myself? (in words of one syllable, and please not in unix) rudy From sgd at ti3.com Fri Sep 14 11:06:08 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Sep 14 11:06:08 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: > > i stretched my network diagnostics skills to the maximum > and opened a dos window and tried "ping rudy.ca" but > again, it just sat there, with that stupid blinking cursor, for > several minutes, and then came back with "Unknown host" > it is a dns problem, though can you surf to other sites? we can take it off list if you wanna dex From sgd at ti3.com Fri Sep 14 11:08:33 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Sep 14 11:08:33 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: I can pull up which dns servers to use, but no addresses, have you phoned your ISP yet? sgd > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dexter > > it is a dns problem, though can you surf to other sites? > From r937 at interlog.com Fri Sep 14 11:19:56 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri Sep 14 11:19:56 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: <01c13d38$61c8d860$7046149a@rudy> > I can pull up which dns servers to use ? in english this means what? where do you do this, whois.com? > but no addresses you mean ip numbers? whose ip numbers? > have you phoned your ISP yet? my isp doesn't take phone calls and anyhow, my problem is, i don't know what the problem is i did notice something more specific -- microsoft (wanting to be helpful, i am certain) generates the following as the TITLE of the error page -- Cannot find server -- Microsoft Internet Explorer again, this confirms what i got when i did the ping (Unknown host) now, please explain to me -- remember, i'm a babe in the woods when it comes to server shit -- why i should phone my host and complain that my browser can't find the host?????? rudy From sgd at ti3.com Fri Sep 14 11:26:04 2001 From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter) Date: Fri Sep 14 11:26:04 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: > > > I can pull up which dns servers to use > > ? in english this means what? where do you do this, whois.com? a program called nslookup, it is a command-line program that you can use to issue dns queries (asking the servers-that-be to translate 'rudy.ca' to an ip address (number)) > you mean ip numbers? whose ip numbers? the ip address of the server that runs rudy.ca > > > have you phoned your ISP yet? > > my isp doesn't take phone calls WTF?! --who runs your dns stuff for rudy.ca ? --fastdnsservers.com ? > > and anyhow, my problem is, i don't know what the problem is nah, you've got the problem (dns is fux0red), just no idea how to proceed =) need to contact thos in charge of taking care of rudy.ca for you (judging by the replies I'm getting, it is fastdnsservers.com). They have fux0red something that is preventing people from finding you. They can fix it. help? sgd From r937 at interlog.com Fri Sep 14 12:30:39 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:30:39 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: <01c13d42$509eba00$7046149a@rudy> >> my isp doesn't take phone calls > >WTF?! --who runs your dns stuff for rudy.ca ? --fastdnsservers.com ? i'm not sure any more!! i thought i understood this stuff, but i realize now i'm really hopeless at it okay, number one is the domain name registrar that's who -- shoot me if i'm wrong -- "runs [my] dns stuff" far as i know, that's internic.ca number two is my isp, where my site is hosted, where my html pages come from they are not the same, right? i have since separately concluded that it is my isp that is down that's because http://r937.com, which is hosted by the same isp (in fact they are exactly the same site!! i use cold fusion to tell me which domain the site visitor is using) is also down >nah, you've got the problem (dns is fux0red), see, that's the part i don't understand why, if it's my web host that is down, am i getting domain, i.e. dns errors??? i must be stupid rudy From jeff at members.evolt.org Fri Sep 14 12:35:21 2001 From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:35:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? In-Reply-To: <01c13d42$509eba00$7046149a@rudy> Message-ID: rudy, ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > From: rudy > > number two is my isp, where my site is hosted, where > my html pages come from ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< correct. there appears to be a problem with connecting to any sites with that host, including the host itself. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > i have since separately concluded that it is my isp > that is down ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< that is correct. .jeff http://evolt.org/ jeff at members.evolt.org http://members.evolt.org/jeff/ From Ron.Luther at compaq.com Fri Sep 14 12:49:42 2001 From: Ron.Luther at compaq.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:49:42 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F2D1@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> Hi Rudy, Naw - you're okay - this stuff gets pretty strange. I'll probably screw this up .. cuz I'm new at this too! (I bought the dang O'Reilly book - but it's sitting under the last 10 O'Reilly books I haven't had time to read yet!) I think the problem is with your host. I would guess that the server they have that contains DNS lookup information is down. Internic is the registrar ... I don't think the problem is with them because they probably aren't hosting your site. I don't think the problem is with your ISP ... UNLESS you are hosting your site through them. In which case (I think) it IS their problem. In my (extremely) limited understanding, a normal sized web hosting company has a bunch of servers ... some that hold the actual html files ... and some that only hold the "routing" information - the DNS stuff. I think they are supposed to have two of these, usually on different boxes, that "fail over" when one goes down. I also think it doesn't always happen that way. Anyway, that's my guess ... one of your host's DNS servers went down and they may or may not be aware of it or working to fix it. HTH, RonL. -----Original Message----- From: rudy [mailto:r937 at interlog.com] Subject: Re: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? i thought i understood this stuff, but i realize now i'm really hopeless at it From djc at starkmedia.com Fri Sep 14 12:50:07 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Sep 14 12:50:07 2001 Subject: [thelist] Re: [thesite] finally? References: <3B9D4CBD.8090402@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: <3B9D4DB1.5040901@starkmedia.com> ugh. well *that* was a !@(*^!#@*&! &&!@^!@&!@& anywyas, looks like MG is back up and at it, some of his config files got corrupted(?) and that led to 'issues'. *very* sorry about the large amount of downtime this afternoon/evening, i miss my evolt mail just as much as the rest of you - and just in time for monday night football!! :) thanks for everyone's patience, i'll keep on eye on everything, feel free to contact me if you notice any more oddities! :) one bonus: we upgraded to sendmail 8.12.0 today. .djc. Daniel J. Cody wrote: > testing > > > _______________________________________________ > For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to: > http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite --------------------------------------- For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From djc at starkmedia.com Fri Sep 14 14:17:20 2001 From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody) Date: Fri Sep 14 14:17:20 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? References: <01c13d42$509eba00$7046149a@rudy> Message-ID: <3BA2540D.6080607@starkmedia.com> rewd - it looks like fastdnsservers.com(the people that put rudy.ca into an IP, DNS services) are having some problems with their network. if you open up a DOS window and type tracert 209.81.157.1 you'll see it stop around a hostname like 'core1-S0.lansing.corecomm.net' - the IP address is that of the machine that does your DNS for you - the core1-S0 is a router 'on the way' to your DNS provider.. the next router in the link doesn't seem to be responding, and as a result, our browsers can't turn rudy.ca into the IP address they need to see your website :) hope that makes sense rudy wrote: >>>my isp doesn't take phone calls >>> >>WTF?! --who runs your dns stuff for rudy.ca ? --fastdnsservers.com ? >> > > i'm not sure any more!! > > i thought i understood this stuff, but i realize now i'm really > hopeless at it From hblair at hotfootmail.com Fri Sep 14 14:57:15 2001 From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair) Date: Fri Sep 14 14:57:15 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? In-Reply-To: <3BA2540D.6080607@starkmedia.com> Message-ID: It seems like you're back up. -Hugh ____________________________ From r937 at interlog.com Fri Sep 14 15:24:00 2001 From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy) Date: Fri Sep 14 15:24:00 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: <01c13d59$fe15a6a0$6c49149a@rudy> >It seems like you're back up. thanks, hugh, yes, i had noticed just moments before your note thank you all for your help it's not like there's anything important on my site, eh! rudy From Ron.Luther at compaq.com Fri Sep 14 15:26:01 2001 From: Ron.Luther at compaq.com (Luther, Ron) Date: Fri Sep 14 15:26:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] what's wrong with my site? which server is down? Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0601F2F4DF@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net> I dunno, I thought the business cards lined up along your resume were kind of an interesting touch. RonL. -----Original Message----- From: rudy [mailto:r937 at interlog.com] it's not like there's anything important on my site, eh! From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 09:29:41 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Sep 15 09:29:41 2001 Subject: [thesite] rating images Message-ID: <3BA32C72.6442.1D8C331@localhost> surfing the site today in Lynx, and noted that the rating info shows up as: Author: aardvark rating6.gif the code that contributes to that: rating6.gif just thought we might want to change that 'alt' to something more useful, especially for browsers that don't support 'title' (like NN4.x, etc.)... perhaps match the 'title' attribute from the href? From filip at netdesign.se Sat Sep 15 12:14:21 2001 From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson) Date: Sat Sep 15 12:14:21 2001 Subject: [thesite] rating images In-Reply-To: <3BA32C72.6442.1D8C331@localhost> Message-ID: Aardvark: > surfing the site today in Lynx, and noted that the rating info shows > up as: > Author: aardvark rating6.gif > > the code that contributes to that: > rating6.gif src="images/rating/6alt_rating06.gif"> > > just thought we might want to change that 'alt' to something more > useful, especially for browsers that don't support 'title' (like NN4.x, > etc.)... > > perhaps match the 'title' attribute from the href? How about changing the title value to something more specific - "aardvark has written 27 articles" - and having the alt value say basically the same thing, though shorter (text browsers in mind), like "(27 articles written)"? Oh yeah, and I'd still prefer having the cubes aligned "absmiddle". :-) /filip -- silent is the new loud. From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 12:19:24 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Sep 15 12:19:24 2001 Subject: [thesite] rating images In-Reply-To: References: <3BA32C72.6442.1D8C331@localhost> Message-ID: <3BA3543A.8135.8F87B1@localhost> > From: "Filip Salomonsson" > > How about changing the title value to something more > specific - "aardvark has written 27 articles" - and > having the alt value say basically the same thing, > though shorter (text browsers in mind), like "(27 > articles written)"? i think the title describes the cubes, which is necessary, since that value (27 as an example) would be different from article to article -- even if they use the same images... > Oh yeah, and I'd still prefer having the cubes aligned > "absmiddle". :-) yeah, i can dig that, too... From filip at netdesign.se Sat Sep 15 12:36:33 2001 From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson) Date: Sat Sep 15 12:36:33 2001 Subject: [thesite] rating images In-Reply-To: <3BA3543A.8135.8F87B1@localhost> Message-ID: Aardvark: > i think the title describes the cubes, which is necessary, since that > value (27 as an example) would be different from article to article -- > even if they use the same images... Is that really an issue? Hmm. Maybe it is. I haven't really thought of it that way. I just thought of the title as an excellent way to get a bit more specific for those who care. Much like the title displays the full article title in the "highest rated articles" and "recent hot discussions" sections in the sidebar. /filip -- silent is the new loud. From filip at netdesign.se Sat Sep 15 12:57:01 2001 From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson) Date: Sat Sep 15 12:57:01 2001 Subject: [thesite] HTML encoding sections in print version Message-ID: Is there no HTML encoding of at all going on in the print version of articles? I went to print altherda's thing on Boolean Fulltext Searching, but the code samples came out.. well, wrong. Dead wrong. Now what am I going to read tonight? ;-) /filip -- silent is the new loud. From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 13:10:45 2001 From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark) Date: Sat Sep 15 13:10:45 2001 Subject: [thesite] HTML encoding sections in print version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BA3603E.21403.BE752D@localhost> > From: "Filip Salomonsson" > > Is there no HTML encoding of at all going on > in the print version of articles? I went to print > altherda's thing on Boolean Fulltext Searching, but > the code samples came out.. well, wrong. Dead wrong. > > so this:

<?php
[...]

as an example... good question, looks like the author didn't enter it 
correctly...

as an example:
http://evolt.org/article/yo/17/4438/index.html?format=print

if you view the source, you'll see the <> symbols are encoded...

looks like the article needs to be fixed...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 15 13:11:05 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Sep 15 13:11:05 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3BA3543A.8135.8F87B1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3BA36058.998.BEDAD9@localhost>

> rom: "Filip Salomonsson" 
>
> Aardvark:
> > i think the title describes the cubes, which is necessary, since
> > that value (27 as an example) would be different from article to
> > article -- even if they use the same images...
> 
> Is that really an issue? Hmm. Maybe it is. I haven't really thought of
> it that way. I just thought of the title as an excellent way to get a
> bit more specific for those who care. Much like the title displays the
> full article title in the "highest rated articles" and "recent hot
> discussions" sections in the sidebar.

well, let's just worry about the 'alt', since that's what non-title-
friendly browsers see...




From filip at netdesign.se  Sat Sep 15 13:15:22 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Sat Sep 15 13:15:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] HTML encoding  sections in print version
In-Reply-To: <3BA3603E.21403.BE752D@localhost>
Message-ID: 

Aardvark:
> as an example... good question, looks like the author didn't enter it 
> correctly...
> 
> as an example:
> http://evolt.org/article/yo/17/4438/index.html?format=print
> 
> if you view the source, you'll see the <> symbols are encoded...
> 
> looks like the article needs to be fixed...

Ah. Of course, you're right. I'll just go away now.

Thanks.

/filip
-- 
silent is the new loud.



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 15 13:22:46 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Sep 15 13:22:46 2001
Subject: [thesite] HTML encoding  sections in print version
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3BA3603E.21403.BE752D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3BA36314.26483.C98C57@localhost>

> From: "Filip Salomonsson" 
> > 
> > looks like the article needs to be fixed...
> 
> Ah. Of course, you're right. I'll just go away now.

no prob...

i'd fix it, but i gotta run right now...




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Sep 15 14:40:46 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Sep 15 14:40:46 2001
Subject: [thesite] HTML encoding  sections in print version
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Sep 15, Filip Salomonsson had something to say about [thesite] HTML...

>Is there no HTML encoding of  at all going on
>in the print version of articles? 

Actually, those parts are in 
, but anyways...  =)

>I went to print
>altherda's thing on Boolean Fulltext Searching, 

Good article, eh? He's a Cincinnati, OH, USA boy (or at least he goes to
University of Cincinnati), like myself, so it is to be expected.

;-)

>but
>the code samples came out.. well, wrong. Dead wrong.
>
>
>
>Now what am I going to read tonight? ;-)

That article, now that I've fixed the problem for ya.

http://evolt.org/article/sexdrugsrocknroll/18/15665/index.html?format=print


thanks,



--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Sep 15 16:25:13 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Sep 15 16:25:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] Comments not Printing Correctly
Message-ID: <005301c13e2c$348689c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Folks,

I was just checking some of the other recent articles, and noticed that
comments aren't displaying as they should be in print view.  The line breaks
aren't working correctly, as they do in articles.

http://evolt.org/article/Breadcrumbs_in_Javascript/17/15480/index.html?forma
t=print


Michele

(p.s. mail is very flaky here this week.  I sent this a few hours ago under
another heading, but it still hasn't arrived.)






From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sun Sep 16 04:09:26 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sun Sep 16 04:09:26 2001
Subject: [thesite] HTML encoding  sections in print version
References: <3BA3603E.21403.BE752D@localhost> <3BA36314.26483.C98C57@localhost>
Message-ID: <02c801c13e18$cff40ea0$55a1fea9@mef>

I'll get it in about an hour .. unless someone else beats me to it.

I was just checking some of the other recent articles, and noticed that
comments aren't displaying as should be in print view.  The line breaks
aren't working correctly, as they do in articles.

http://evolt.org/article/Breadcrumbs_in_Javascript/17/15480/index.html?forma
t=print


Michele



| > From: "Filip Salomonsson" 
| > >
| > > looks like the article needs to be fixed...

http://evolt.org/article/Boolean_Fulltext_Searching_with_PHP_and_MySQL/18/15
665/index.html
| >





From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 16:22:44 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:22:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
References: 
Message-ID: <3BA666DF.2020207@starkmedia.com>

filip -

Ok, should the  tag include the align attribute, or the  tag? 
Lemme know and I'll make the change, and we'll see how it looks :)

.djc.

Filip Salomonsson wrote:


> Oh yeah, and I'd still prefer having the cubes aligned
> "absmiddle". :-)





From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 16:25:49 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:25:49 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
References: <3BA32C72.6442.1D8C331@localhost>
Message-ID: <3BA66797.70601@starkmedia.com>

i guess the reason i put ratingX.gif in the 'alt' attribute is cus i'm 
one of those "Dont put descriptive text in the alt attribute(i've seen 
it abused way to many times)" kinda guys.. but i see how it could be 
beneficial here.. so you're basically saying to make the title and alt 
attrib's the same ?

:)

.djc.

aardvark wrote:

> surfing the site today in Lynx, and noted that the rating info shows 
> up as:
> Author: aardvark rating6.gif
> 
> the code that contributes to that:
> rating6.gif src="images/rating/6alt_rating06.gif">
> 
> just thought we might want to change that 'alt' to something more 
> useful, especially for browsers that don't support 'title' (like NN4.x, 
> etc.)...
> 
> perhaps match the 'title' attribute from the href?





From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 17 16:47:31 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:47:31 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
In-Reply-To: <3BA66797.70601@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200109172147.f8HLlUVW031321@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
>
> i guess the reason i put ratingX.gif in the 'alt' attribute is cus i'm
> one of those "Dont put descriptive text in the alt attribute(i've seen
> it abused way to many times)" kinda guys.. but i see how it could be
> beneficial here.. so you're basically saying to make the title and alt
> attrib's the same ?

no, i dig your jive...

however, you did put text in there, as opposed to leaving it blank, 
so now it's all FrontPagey with it's alt-ness...

make 'em the same... unless there's good reason not to...

this way non-title-friendly browsers see something useful... and title-
friendly browsers just override it anyway...



From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 17 16:47:35 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:47:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
In-Reply-To: <3BA666DF.2020207@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200109172147.f8HLlZVW031320@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
> 
> Ok, should the  tag include the align attribute, or the  tag?
> Lemme know and I'll make the change, and we'll see how it looks :)





From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 16:54:36 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:54:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
References: <200109172147.f8HLlZVW031320@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BA66E56.10806@starkmedia.com>

thanks, updated on article and user page..

.djc.

aardvark wrote:

>>From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
>>
>>Ok, should the  tag include the align attribute, or the  tag?
>>Lemme know and I'll make the change, and we'll see how it looks :)
>>
> 
> 





From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 16:55:38 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:55:38 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
References: <200109172147.f8HLlUVW031321@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BA66E94.50301@starkmedia.com>

thats good enough reasoning for me :)

check it out on the user and article page and lemme know if its coolio.

thanks aard and filip btw :)

.djc.

aardvark wrote:


> this way non-title-friendly browsers see something useful... and title-
> friendly browsers just override it anyway...






From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 16:56:26 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 16:56:26 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
References: <200109172147.f8HLlUVW031321@leo.evolt.org> <3BA66E94.50301@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3BA66EC5.8060903@starkmedia.com>

uh. on t.e.o that is.

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> thats good enough reasoning for me :)
> 
> check it out on the user and article page and lemme know if its coolio.
> 
> thanks aard and filip btw :)
> 
> .djc.
> 
> aardvark wrote:
> 
> 
>> this way non-title-friendly browsers see something useful... and title-
>> friendly browsers just override it anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite





From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 17 17:03:22 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 17 17:03:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
In-Reply-To: <3BA66E94.50301@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200109172203.f8HM3LVW032407@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
> 
> check it out on the user and article page and lemme know if its
> coolio.

looks great in Lynx... and NN4.x...



From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 17:08:39 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 17:08:39 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
References: <200109172203.f8HM3LVW032407@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BA671A1.6020701@starkmedia.com>

rock. jeff, if you can update the CHANGELOG to reflect the changes 
you've made in the last 10 days, i'll move everything up in the morning

next?

aardvark wrote:

>>From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
>>
>>check it out on the user and article page and lemme know if its
>>coolio.
>>
> 
> looks great in Lynx... and NN4.x...





From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Mon Sep 17 18:52:17 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Mon Sep 17 18:52:17 2001
Subject: [thesite] dir.evolt.org puking
Message-ID: 

http://dir.evolt.org/



Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was
unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, djc at members.evolt.org and inform
them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that
may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error
log.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.20 Server at dir.evolt.org Port 80




php recompilation problem, danno?


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From mef at sympatico.ca  Mon Sep 17 19:18:38 2001
From: mef at sympatico.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 17 19:18:38 2001
Subject: [thesite] Comments not Printing Correctly (Repost)
Message-ID: <019401c13fd7$624fccc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

(Repost, email server not working very well)


Folks,

Comments aren't displaying as they should be in print view.  The line breaks
aren't working correctly (in 
), as they do in articles.

http://evolt.org/article/Breadcrumbs_in_Javascript/17/15480/index.html?forma
t=print


Michele






From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 17 19:47:24 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 17 19:47:24 2001
Subject: [thesite] dir.evolt.org puking
References: 
Message-ID: <3BA69934.9010102@starkmedia.com>

ya, my fault.. forgot to compile mod_rewrite back into apache this 
morning. good now, thanks for the heads up matty :)

.djc.

Warden, Matt wrote:

> http://dir.evolt.org/

> php recompilation problem, danno?





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Tue Sep 18 10:23:47 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Tue Sep 18 10:23:47 2001
Subject: [thesite] [bug] a.e.o. - Message Stuck in Limbo - was - Fw: Email Messages in the Queue
Message-ID: <026601c14055$df1556c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Reposting to the correct list.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michele Foster" 

|
| And this one about the colour palette.
| http://admin.evolt.org/email/index.cfm?action=detail&cid=15576
|
| It's really odd, its showing up on the main list as not being responded
too,
| yet, I can't respond to it, as on the detail page it says it was responded
| to.  Which reading the response, there's nothing there.  Did someone send
a
| "real" response to this enquiry?  Dan, what's up with the "odd" status
| indication on this one?
|

Do we need a "reset" button ?






From mef at sympatico.ca  Tue Sep 18 10:26:45 2001
From: mef at sympatico.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Tue Sep 18 10:26:45 2001
Subject: [thesite] aeo - Reply To Address
Message-ID: <026e01c14056$4ee23fe0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Reposting from admin ..... Dan, is this possible?  Can we test it to see
what happens?

Mich


[Admin] a.e.o. - default email address
Warden, Matt mwarden at mattwarden.com
Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:58:03 -0400 (EDT)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


>This way any responses from the
>person the message was sent to would automatically end up in a.e.o.'s in
>box (again) and anyone could respond, should the originally respondent
>not be around or unavailable.  It would also allow us to track messages
>better.

Reply-To: info at evolt.org

Anyone know of clients that don't obey that header? I know pine prompts
(by default) whether to reply to the message's From: header or to its
Reply-To:.





From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Sep 18 10:31:30 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Sep 18 10:31:30 2001
Subject: [thesite] =?iso-8859-1?Q?FW:_ware\Microsoft\WindoJ=1F=13b4_=F3=10prasanacalvin_03el?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?efantecalvin_05desktoppadroes_de_desenvolvimentokris_lunch?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?_2primeiro=5Femailcanibalcalvin_01com+_application_guideli?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?nes_for_visual_basic_developmentmenumenuprimeiro=5Femailte?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?rrorcalvin_02?=
Message-ID: 

Hi Y'all,

I received this from thelist just now (actually IP 64.133.24.16 - is that one of ours?)  It has a file attached that looks to be a virus, but my virus scanner doesn't pick it up.  When I rename the attachment .txt and look at it in notepad, I see some interesting stuff, including the words 'Concept Virus'.

Any idea what the deal is?

Take Care,

Seth

-----Original Message-----
Return-path: 
Received: from FTHGTEIXEIR [64.133.24.16] by nodoy.com [63.89.103.198]
	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.5.0.R)
	for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:10:06 -0500
From: 
Subject: ware\Microsoft\WindoJb4 ?prasanacalvin 03elefantecalvin 05desktoppadroes de desenvolvimentokris lunch 2primeiro_emailcanibalcalvin 01com+ application guidelines for visual basic developmentmenumenuprimeiro_emailterrorcalvin 02
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/related;
	type="multipart/alternative";
	boundary="====_ABC1234567890DEF_===="
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Unsent: 1
X-MDRcpt-To: seth at sethbienek.com
X-MDRemoteIP: 64.133.24.16
X-Return-Path: thelist at lists.evolt.org
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: seth at sethbienek.com

--attachment Readme.exe--





From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Tue Sep 18 11:00:20 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Tue Sep 18 11:00:20 2001
Subject: [thesite] Worm Alert: TruSecure ALERT- TSA 01-023 - W32.nimda.a.mm
References: <026601c14055$df1556c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3BA76F93.9000406@nc.rr.com>

In case you hadn't seen this yet.  Looks like an exploit of this 
vulnerability:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/security/bulletin/ms01-020.asp

Looks like thelist is already getting some of the e-mail variety.  Need 
to figure out a filtering strategy.

--rt

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

TruSecure ALERT- TSA 01-023 - W32.nimda.a.mm

Date: September 18, 2001
Time:  1000 EDT

RISK INDICES:

Initial Assessment: RED HOT

Threat: VERY HIGH, (rapidly increasing)

Vulnerability Prevalence: VERY HIGH, effects IIS servers version 4.0,
5.0, and internal networks.

Cost: High, command execution is possible

Vulnerable Systems:  IIS 4.0 and 5.0

SUMMARY:
A new IIS worm is spreading rapidly.  Its working name is Nimda:
W32.nimda.a.mm

It started about 9am eastern time today, Tuesday,September 18, 2001,
Mulitple sensors world-wide run by TruSecure corporation are getting
multiple hundred hits per hour. And began at 9:08am am.

The worm seems to be targeting IIS 4 and 5 boxes and tests boxes for
multiple vulnerabilities including:

Almost all are get scripts, and a get msadc (cmd.exe)
get_mem_bin
vti_bin  owssvr.dll
Root.exe
CMD.EXE
../  (Unicode)
Getadmin.dll
Default.IDA
/Msoffice/ cltreq.asp

This is not code red or a code red variant.

The worm, like code red attempts to infect its local sub net first,
then spreads beyond the local address space.

It is spreading very rapidly.

TruSecure  believes that this worm will infect any IIS 4 and IIS 5
box with well known vulnerabilities.  We believe that there are
nearly 1Million such machines currently exposed to the Internet.

Risks Indices:
Vulnerability   VULNERABILITY  PREVALANCE is very high - Milllions of
Internet Web server hosts:   TruSecure process and essential
configurations should generally be protective.  The vulnerability
prevalence world-wide is very high

Threat - VERY HIGH and Growing The rate of growth and spread is
exceedingly rapid - significantly faster than any worm to date and
significantly faster than any variant of Code red.

Cost --  Unknown, probably moderate per infected system.


The worm itself is a file called
README.EXE, or ADMIN.DLL
a 56K file which is advertised as an audio xwave mime type file.

Other RISKS:
There is risk of DOS of network segments by traffic volume alone
There is large risk of successful attack to both Internet exposed IIS
boxes and to developer and Intranet boxes inside of corporations.

Judging by the Code Red II experience, we expect many subtle routes
of infection leading to inside corporate infections.

We cannot discount the coincidence of the date and time of release,
exactly one week to (probably to the minute) as the World Trade
Center attack .


REPLICATION:
There are at least three mechanisms of spread:
The worm seems to spread both by a direct IIS across Internet (IP
spread)
It probably also spreads by local shares.  (this is not known for
sure at this time)
There is also an email vector where README.EXE is sent via email to
numerous accounts.

Mitigations
TruSecure essential practices should work.
Block all email with EXE attachments
Filter for README.EXE
Make sure IIS boxes are well patched and hardened, or removed from
both the Internet and Intranets.
Make sure any developer computing platforms are not running IIS of
any version (many do so by default if either.
Disconnect mail from the Internet
Advise users not to double click on any unexpected attachments.
Update anti-virus when your vendor has the signature.

More Mitigations to follow, and additional information from
TruSecure.

DISCLAIMER:
Copyright 2001 TruSecure Corporation.  All rights reserved.  This
Alert is the property of the TruSecure Corporation.  It may not be
redistributed except within your own company or organization.  This
Alert is being provided for informational purposes only and is
provided AS IS."  The TruSecure Corporation makes no warranties of
any kind, express or implied, including, but not limited to
warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose,
non-infringement, and warranties arising out of any course of dealing
or course of conduct.

Impenetrable security is unattainable in real world environments; the
TruSecure Corporation cannot and does not guarantee protection
against breaches of security.

IN NO EVENT WILL THE TRUSECURE CORPORATION BE LIABLE FOR ANY BUSINESS
INTERRUPTION, LOST REVENUE, PROFITS OR DATA, OR FOR DAMAGES OF ANY
KIND, HOWEVER CAUSED, ARISING OUT OF YOUR USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS WARNING, OR YOUR FAILURE TO RECEIVE
ANY PRIOR OR FUTURE ALERTS, WATCHES OR WARNINGS, EVEN IF THE
TRUSECURE CORPORATION HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
DAMAGES.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0.1

iQA/AwUBO6dhn0Nkp5EGviu0EQKC+ACgqNWUGzjEH71Zfidoj5wfK8o+EVoAnRFw
ugG5gRQoGZ6uADCDyy/ogLsG
=nGW1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 18 11:07:57 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 18 11:07:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] admin: holding posts.
Message-ID: <3BA76E8D.7030801@starkmedia.com>

Hi -

Looks like there's a new variation on some old IIS vunerabilities:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/security/bulletin/ms01-020.asp

as such, I'll be manually approving all posts to thelist till this is 
sorted out :)

You may notice an additional lag when posting to or recieving email from 
thelist as http requests from this new worm have totally filled the t-1 
where evolt is hosted.

Post as normal, just don't expect lightning fast responses like normal 
for a couple hours :)

Thanks for your patience!

.djc.




From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Tue Sep 18 11:13:41 2001
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Tue Sep 18 11:13:41 2001
Subject: [thesite] FW: ware\Microsoft\WindoJb4 óprasanacalvin 03elefantecalvin 05desktoppadroes de desenvolvimentokris lunch 2primeiro_emailcanibalcalvin 01com+ application guidelines for visual basic developmentmenumenuprimeiro_emailterrorcalvin 02
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20010918170448.53027260.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:29:13 -0500, "Seth Bienek" 
wrote:


> Any idea what the deal is?


Looks like a new worm:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/18/151203&mode=flat

Looks nasty.

G.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://spiked.co.uk/
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk/



From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 18 11:14:14 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 18 11:14:14 2001
Subject: [thesite] FW: wareblah
References: 
Message-ID: <3BA77006.1040107@starkmedia.com>

the message got through cus its plain text, not an attachment, but still 
brutal. the IP isn't ours :)

i just sent something out to thelist and here explaining the situation, 
but its going to be a bit slow as our T-1 is getting *smashed* right now 
from the http requests this is generating.

weeee.

Seth Bienek wrote:

> Hi Y'all,
> 
> I received this from thelist just now (actually IP 64.133.24.16 - is that one of ours?)  It has a file attached that looks to be a virus, but my virus scanner doesn't pick it up.  When I rename the attachment .txt and look at it in notepad, I see some interesting stuff, including the words 'Concept Virus'.
> 
> Any idea what the deal is?
> 
> Take Care,
> 
> Seth
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> Return-path: 
> Received: from FTHGTEIXEIR [64.133.24.16] by nodoy.com [63.89.103.198]
> 	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.5.0.R)
> 	for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:10:06 -0500
> From: 
> Subject: ware\Microsoft\WindoJb4 ?prasanacalvin 03elefantecalvin 05desktoppadroes de desenvolvimentokris lunch 2primeiro_emailcanibalcalvin 01com+ application guidelines for visual basic developmentmenumenuprimeiro_emailterrorcalvin 02
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/related;
> 	type="multipart/alternative";
> 	boundary="====_ABC1234567890DEF_===="
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Unsent: 1
> X-MDRcpt-To: seth at sethbienek.com
> X-MDRemoteIP: 64.133.24.16
> X-Return-Path: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: seth at sethbienek.com
> 
> --attachment Readme.exe--
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
> 





From filip at netdesign.se  Tue Sep 18 12:53:11 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Tue Sep 18 12:53:11 2001
Subject: [thesite] rating images
In-Reply-To: <3BA66E94.50301@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

Daniel J. Cody:
> check it out on the user and article page and lemme know if its coolio.

Very coolio. Perfect.

/filip



From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 18 13:46:35 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 18 13:46:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] [bug] a.e.o. - Message Stuck in Limbo - was - Fw: Email Messages in the Queue
References: <026601c14055$df1556c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3BA793B6.4060105@starkmedia.com>

ok, i just reset the message

i'll add a reset button for certain priv levels in there too :)

thanks for pointing this out..

.djc.


Michele Foster wrote:

> Reposting to the correct list.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michele Foster" 
> 
> |
> | And this one about the colour palette.
> | http://admin.evolt.org/email/index.cfm?action=detail&cid=15576
> |
> | It's really odd, its showing up on the main list as not being responded
> too,
> | yet, I can't respond to it, as on the detail page it says it was responded
> | to.  Which reading the response, there's nothing there.  Did someone send
> a
> | "real" response to this enquiry?  Dan, what's up with the "odd" status
> | indication on this one?
> |
> 
> Do we need a "reset" button ?





From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 18 14:42:47 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 18 14:42:47 2001
Subject: [thesite] aeo - Reply To Address
References: <026e01c14056$4ee23fe0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3BA7A0DF.7070306@starkmedia.com>

not a bad idea, but i don't know how or where you'd set the reply-to to 
go. the a.e.o in box isn't an email address, it gets information from 
the form that people fill out - not a particular address they send email 
too.
kinda make sense?

.djc.


Michele Foster wrote:

> Reposting from admin ..... Dan, is this possible?  Can we test it to see
> what happens?
> 
> Mich
> 
> 
> [Admin] a.e.o. - default email address
> Warden, Matt mwarden at mattwarden.com
> Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:58:03 -0400 (EDT)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> 
> 
>>This way any responses from the
>>person the message was sent to would automatically end up in a.e.o.'s in
>>box (again) and anyone could respond, should the originally respondent
>>not be around or unavailable.  It would also allow us to track messages
>>better.
>>
> 
> Reply-To: info at evolt.org
> 
> Anyone know of clients that don't obey that header? I know pine prompts
> (by default) whether to reply to the message's From: header or to its
> Reply-To:.





From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 18 15:30:11 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Sep 18 15:30:11 2001
Subject: [thesite] [bug] a.e.o. - Message Stuck in Limbo - was - Fw: Email Messages in the Queue
Message-ID: <010350330201291PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Daniel J. Cody wrote on 18/9/01 7:34 pm

>ok, i just reset the message
>
>i'll add a reset button for certain priv levels in there too :)

Just so's we know - which priv levels?

Ta
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 18 16:29:09 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 18 16:29:09 2001
Subject: [thesite] [bug] a.e.o. - Message Stuck in Limbo - was - Fw: Email Messages in the Queue
References: <010350330201291PCOW028M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3BA7B9C9.30809@starkmedia.com>

probably the same as it takes to delete a message on w.e.o - 4

you can see who has what at the users page on a.e.o

.djc.

Martin wrote:

> Daniel J. Cody wrote on 18/9/01 7:34 pm
> 
> 
>>ok, i just reset the message
>>
>>i'll add a reset button for certain priv levels in there too :)
>>
> 
> Just so's we know - which priv levels?





From dmah at shaw.ca  Tue Sep 18 17:11:47 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Tue Sep 18 17:11:47 2001
Subject: [thesite] aeo - Reply To Address
In-Reply-To: <3BA7A0DF.7070306@starkmedia.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Sep 18, 2001 02:30:39 PM
Message-ID: <200109182214.QAA02164@alice.monkeyland.ca>

You could set it to a "fake" e-mail address and have a script process
the mail and shove it in the aeo database.  For the account, you could
either make an account and use .forward or procmail run the script or
you could throw something into your sendmail.cf to launch the app.

Dean


Daniel J. Cody writes:

> not a bad idea, but i don't know how or where you'd set the reply-to to 
> go. the a.e.o in box isn't an email address, it gets information from 
> the form that people fill out - not a particular address they send email 
> too.
> kinda make sense?



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 12:35:20 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:35:20 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
Message-ID: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Hi Folks ....

I'm still waiting for flight information from the following:  Jeff, Scott
and Adrian.

Rudy and David McCreath, any news if you will be attending or not?

I've made a few modifications to the proposed LOTTD:
http://members.evolt.org/Mishka/CodeFest_2001/draft_lottd.htm

Specifically:

* I eliminated the Tip Harvester (Dean, if you need help, please advise
before you go on holidays what you want done in your absence.).
* I've added "low priority" to user-defined stylesheets (per Isaac).
* I added "This article has been viewed X times." (for further discussion).

Any other comments, ideas, suggestions .. further discussions?

Dan, have you made hotel arrangements yet?

Thanks everyone, have a great weekend!!

Michele






From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Sep 21 12:39:21 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:39:21 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
Message-ID: 

I must offer my apologies. I can't make it. I've a wedding to attend and
I tried to rely on my memory which said CF3 was the weekend prior to it.


I'm sorry, have fun kids...

dex

> -----Original Message--
> 
> I'm still waiting for flight information from the following:  
> Jeff, Scott
> and Adrian.



From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 21 12:44:16 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:44:16 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <036d01c142c6$12d8a3f0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Feedback for LOTTD:

Unified login across the *.e.o sites - I've got some ideas on how to do
this.  I know there was some talk before about this.  Anybody want to get
into particulars now and come up with the plan?

Allow for articles to appear in more than one category on w.e.o. - if Jeff
won't do it I'll do it.  :)  I feel this one is rather important.  But, it
does raise some issues to decide upon before we jump in there.  Again, do we
want to discuss particulars now?  Some of the nuances of this affect 5 and 6
(Linking related articles and tracking views)

-joshua




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 12:53:01 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:53:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <036d01c142c6$12d8a3f0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <005101c142c6$40cb2ee0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Hey Josh ...

Excellent ideas .. yes, let's discuss now!!!  :)

Change the email headers please for further discussion.  Will be easier for
everyone to keep track of the conversations.

Thanks,

Michele


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" 


| Feedback for LOTTD:
|
| Unified login across the *.e.o sites - I've got some ideas on how to do
| this.  I know there was some talk before about this.  Anybody want to get
| into particulars now and come up with the plan?
|
| Allow for articles to appear in more than one category on w.e.o. - if Jeff
| won't do it I'll do it.  :)  I feel this one is rather important.  But, it
| does raise some issues to decide upon before we jump in there.  Again, do
we
| want to discuss particulars now?  Some of the nuances of this affect 5 and
6
| (Linking related articles and tracking views)
|
| -joshua





From javier at msm.cl  Fri Sep 21 12:53:09 2001
From: javier at msm.cl (mantruc)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:53:09 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3BAB7E7A.999BFCAB@msm.cl>

about the LOTTD:

	- what about the "old article revival" thing we talked about?
		has it not been decided?
		is it too complex to implement?
		was it not useful?
		(i'm just wondering, no offense)

about the gathering:

	looks like there's gonna be lots of people
	have fun, someday i'll be able to join you


-- 
Javier Velasco M.      -               nurun Chile
Information Architect  -       http://www.nurun.cl
----------------------- --------------------------
--       Personal: http://mantruc.com           --
--        Member of http://evolt.org            --



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 12:53:13 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:53:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <005001c142c6$3ee46d80$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Oh my .... 

*crying*

Can't they change their wedding date??  ;)

You will be sadly missed Scotty.

Mich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Dexter" 


| I must offer my apologies. I can't make it. I've a wedding to attend and
| I tried to rely on my memory which said CF3 was the weekend prior to it.
| 
| 
| I'm sorry, have fun kids...





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 12:59:44 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 12:59:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] Old Article Revival
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <3BAB7E7A.999BFCAB@msm.cl>
Message-ID: <005e01c142c7$2e46c6c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Javi,

Good question .. we can discuss it further.  I'll add it to the list in the
meantime.  Probably fits well into the discussion about linking related
articles, page views, other articles by this author, etc.

Javi, can you provide a brief summary of what it is you wanted, the proposed
approach, etc. for what you had in mind?  (I don't remember the specific
details).

Thanks,

Michele


----- Original Message -----
From: "mantruc" 


| about the LOTTD:
|
| - what about the "old article revival" thing we talked about?
| has it not been decided?
| is it too complex to implement?
| was it not useful?
| (i'm just wondering, no offense)





From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Sep 21 13:10:56 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Sep 21 13:10:56 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
Message-ID: <01c142c7$723cd900$8449149a@rudy>

as of right now, i will not be attending

if i get the job i interviewed for today, i'll fly in

if i cannot make it, i expect to participate via irc

deal?


rudy




From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 21 13:11:32 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 21 13:11:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] Unified Login
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <036d01c142c6$12d8a3f0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <005101c142c6$40cb2ee0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <038501c142c9$e29b41d0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Can anybody please bring us up to date on what was talked about for this
topic?

A couple of key components are necessary for this to work:

- A unified user database to authenticate against.
- A way to set cookies for all domains that does not compromise security but
still let's an authenticated user be recognized by the system regardless of
the domain they logged in to.
- A way to detect if the person has logged out of one domain and ensure that
the cookies for all domains become invalid.

Is there a unified database that can be accessed for authentication?  If
not, the strategy gets a whole lot hairier.

A common strategy to handle the cookie is to set some sort of UID in the
cookie.  The UID is generated when a user logs in to the system and is
recorded with the account.  On the "thank you for logging in screen", pepper
the browser with an image from each domain in the realm (they can be single
pixel transparent images) that tote along a cookie from that domain
containing the UID.  When a person then visits a different domain in the
realm, the UID is matched with an account to let the person log in
automatically.  If/when a person logs out, just NULLify the UID in the
account and do whatever it takes to kill the session.

Now, since evolt all falls within the .evolt.org tld, a properly formatted
cookie could be valid for all domains in the realm (deo, feo, weo, teo, etc)
and sent with every page request regardless of the domain.  If this works,
then you do not need the peppering of images to get the cookies to the
client's machine.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?

-joshua




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 14:06:59 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:06:59 2001
Subject: [thesite] Unified Login
In-Reply-To: <038501c142c9$e29b41d0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: 

>Now, since evolt all falls within the .evolt.org tld, a properly formatted
>cookie could be valid for all domains in the realm (deo, feo, weo, teo, etc)
>and sent with every page request regardless of the domain.  If this works,
>then you do not need the peppering of images to get the cookies to the
>client's machine.

Actually, you would need the image. The UID stored in each subsite's
database (in the users.cookie field) would have to be updated. Though, I'm
sure if you knew that there is no unified database, you'd have suggested
this originally.

But, the above assumes we change something about how it currently
works. Right now, all *.evolt.org domains that run a copy of the evolt
code can get at the cookie and recognize it (and this is without changing
anything about the code... a fresh install picks up the cookie, which was
a nice suprise). So, all that works already... as long as the subsite is
running the evolt code and an up-to-date member table. Which leads to...

The other issue is making sure that Bob User doesn't have to 
register/signup in each subsite in order to access all subsites.

Really, what I'd like to see happen (and this is a personal preference) is
the creation of something like common.evolt.org or global.evolt.org (the
actual creation of a separat subdomain isn't my point) where certain
pieces of evolt that are common and not specific to weo, feo, *eo and
doesn't rely on that single database. I would feel a lot more comfertable
involving weo's and feo's database in the same script if it was on
common.evolt.org rather than food.evolt.org. But, maybe I'm just weird
like that.

Really, though, IMO this is a subject that begs to be discussed
face-to-face as it's quite involved and there are a lot of
possibilities... and I would be suprised if that item on the LOTTD is any
more than discussion and maybe initial steps. That is, unless danno
already has it figured out (he worked on this a while ago) and just isn't
telling anyone...

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 14:12:16 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:12:16 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: multiple categories (was CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD)
In-Reply-To: <036d01c142c6$12d8a3f0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: 

>Allow for articles to appear in more than one category on w.e.o. - if Jeff
>won't do it I'll do it.  :)  I feel this one is rather important.  But, it
>does raise some issues to decide upon before we jump in there.  Again, do we
>want to discuss particulars now?  Some of the nuances of this affect 5 and 6
>(Linking related articles and tracking views)

Rudeman already has the db structure laid out for this, though i don't
believe it's implemented in any of the databases.

http://members.evolt.org/rudy/oracle4.gif


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Sep 21 14:13:14 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:13:14 2001
Subject: [thesite] Unified Login
References: 
Message-ID: <3BAB8E64.8010205@starkmedia.com>


Warden, Matt wrote:


> But, the above assumes we change something about how it currently
> works. Right now, all *.evolt.org domains that run a copy of the evolt
> code can get at the cookie and recognize it (and this is without changing
> anything about the code... a fresh install picks up the cookie, which was
> a nice suprise). So, all that works already... as long as the subsite is
> running the evolt code and an up-to-date member table. 


true.. what about non-CF sites though like d.e.o ?(just wondering :)


> Really, what I'd like to see happen (and this is a personal preference) is
> the creation of something like common.evolt.org or global.evolt.org (the


my original though about the login stuff was something like:

the login boxes on the side of www.e.o POST to a site like 
http://login.evolt.org/checklogin.cfm or something. that checklogin.cfm 
checks the information from the login boxes against the live DB. if 
everything is kosher, it sets a cookie of somesort and sends you back to 
where you came from, logged in.

this is a bonus because it means we don't have to give everyone access 
to the user DB. also, any *.evolt.org site can just add a little snippet 
of text to provide login cabapilities to their site.

that said, i tried this, and did have *some* success. the problems 
seemed to come when i tried it from CGI or PHP pages. butt.......


> Really, though, IMO this is a subject that begs to be discussed
> face-to-face as it's quite involved and there are a lot of


ya, i think getting 5 of us together to work out the issue and 
brainstorm would be pretty beneficial

.djc.




From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Sep 21 14:14:42 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:14:42 2001
Subject: [thesite] Unified Login
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <036d01c142c6$12d8a3f0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <005101c142c6$40cb2ee0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <038501c142c9$e29b41d0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <3BAB8EBC.9000409@starkmedia.com>


Joshua Olson wrote:

> Can anybody please bring us up to date on what was talked about for this
> topic?
> 
> A couple of key components are necessary for this to work:
> 
> - A unified user database to authenticate against.
> - A way to set cookies for all domains that does not compromise security but
> still let's an authenticated user be recognized by the system regardless of
> the domain they logged in to.


*and* the application language that site happens to use(see my other 
email for more on this)


> Is there a unified database that can be accessed for authentication?  If
> not, the strategy gets a whole lot hairier.


yes


.djc.





From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Sep 21 14:16:44 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:16:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <3BAB8F35.9090202@starkmedia.com>

doh.. we'll miss you buddy.

.djc.

Scott Dexter wrote:

> I must offer my apologies. I can't make it. I've a wedding to attend and
> I tried to rely on my memory which said CF3 was the weekend prior to it.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, have fun kids...
> 
> dex
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message--
>>
>>I'm still waiting for flight information from the following:  
>>Jeff, Scott
>>and Adrian.





From javier at msm.cl  Fri Sep 21 14:20:03 2001
From: javier at msm.cl (mantruc)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:20:03 2001
Subject: [thesite] Old Article Revival
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <3BAB7E7A.999BFCAB@msm.cl> <005e01c142c7$2e46c6c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <3BAB92D4.D5EF6849@msm.cl>

Michele Foster wrote:

> Javi, can you provide a brief summary of what it is you wanted, the proposed
> approach, etc. for what you had in mind?  (I don't remember the specific
> details).

sure:

my original idea was to refloat old articles to the front page, in order
to attract more visits to them, thus reminding our users that we do have
lots of good articles which were written some time ago. it can also help
improving their ratings for further reference, and comments. 

(btw. i remeber seeing a -test- full ranking of highest rated articles,
maybe that could be finshed now too)

i see these articles in the lower part of the home (center, not
sidebar), under a title like "gems from the past" or such. 

i think it should be only one article at a time

when we discussed this on admin (subject="article randomizer?")
some interesting questions came out about how to manage it (covered
here)

someone or some group shuold take the lead to select which articles to
refloat

and there must also be a way to keep track of refloated articles,
and "refloatment date" so we avoid refloating the same article
in a short period of time.

we also have to discuss the period for rotation os such refloated
articles.

...awaiting opinions...

-- 
Javier Velasco M.      -               nurun Chile
Information Architect  -       http://www.nurun.cl
----------------------- --------------------------
--       Personal: http://mantruc.com           --
--        Member of http://evolt.org            --



From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 14:28:47 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:28:47 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: full list ordered by ranking (was Old Article Revival)
In-Reply-To: <3BAB92D4.D5EF6849@msm.cl>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 21, mantruc had something to say about Re: [thesite] Old Article Revival

>(btw. i remeber seeing a -test- full ranking of highest rated articles,
>maybe that could be finshed now too)

+1

I like that idea.

I would like to know where my articles stand... including the ones that
don't happen to be in the top 5.

Only for articles with 5+ ratings, like the sidebar. I'm thinking this
wouldn't be too difficult a task, so we might want to add that to the
todolist. I'll certainly take this if no one else does...


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Sep 21 14:33:12 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:33:12 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: full list ordered by ranking (was Old Article Revival)
References: 
Message-ID: <3BAB9312.4070305@starkmedia.com>

sidebar would be the best place for this IMO.. we don't want to bump 
current articles off the front page any faster just to show articles 
that got bumped off too fast/too long ago :)

.djc.

Warden, Matt wrote:


> Only for articles with 5+ ratings, like the sidebar. I'm thinking this
> wouldn't be too difficult a task, so we might want to add that to the
> todolist. I'll certainly take this if no one else does...





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Sep 21 14:35:53 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:35:53 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <036d01c142c6$12d8a3f0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org>

joshua,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 10:51 AM 9/21/2001, you wrote: Feedback for LOTTD:
 >
 > Unified login across the *.e.o sites - I've got some
 > ideas on how to do this.  I know there was some talk
 > before about this.  Anybody want to get into
 > particulars now and come up with the plan?
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i've got some ideas as well, but there are some complexities to 
consider.  the most important is how to move session information from one 
site to another so it follows the user.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > Allow for articles to appear in more than one category
 > on w.e.o. - if Jeff won't do it I'll do it.  :)  I feel
 > this one is rather important.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it is important, but significant enough of a change that there isn't time 
to do this during codefest.  we also need to consider how this sort of 
change will impact the users of the site.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > But, it does raise some issues to decide upon before
 > we jump in there.  Again, do we want to discuss
 > particulars now?  Some of the nuances of this affect
 > 5 and 6 (Linking related articles and tracking views)
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

as well as a fairly significant database change as well.

i'd vote to table it for now for further discussion about impact on the 
user and technical implementation.

thanks,

.jeff




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 14:36:30 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:36:30 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: full list ordered by ranking (was Old Article
 Revival)
In-Reply-To: <3BAB9312.4070305@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

No, not the front page. I would think it would be very similar to the
category listing, except it's all articles, organized by rating rather
than date. We've discussed something like this in the past: being able to
toggle how the articles are sorted.

Personally, I think we ought to just add a "[more...]" link like we have
in other sidebar boxen. That would be simpler, I think.


Thanks,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

On Sep 21, Daniel J. Cody had something to say about Re: [thesite] Re: full...

>sidebar would be the best place for this IMO.. we don't want to bump 
>current articles off the front page any faster just to show articles 
>that got bumped off too fast/too long ago :)
>
>.djc.
>
>Warden, Matt wrote:
>
>
>> Only for articles with 5+ ratings, like the sidebar. I'm thinking this
>> wouldn't be too difficult a task, so we might want to add that to the
>> todolist. I'll certainly take this if no one else does...




From javier at msm.cl  Fri Sep 21 14:41:35 2001
From: javier at msm.cl (mantruc)
Date: Fri Sep 21 14:41:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: full list ordered by ranking (was Old Article Revival)
References:  <3BAB9312.4070305@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3BAB97DB.BCF845A0@msm.cl>

[about old resurrected articles]

nobody said the current articles would go away faster...
can't the page just be longer down?

[full list ordered by ranking]

just called from a "more" link in the highest rated articles box

"Daniel J. Cody" wrote:
> 
> sidebar would be the best place for this IMO.. we don't want to bump
> current articles off the front page any faster just to show articles
> that got bumped off too fast/too long ago :)
> 
> .djc.
> 
> Warden, Matt wrote:
> 
> > Only for articles with 5+ ratings, like the sidebar. I'm thinking this
> > wouldn't be too difficult a task, so we might want to add that to the
> > todolist. I'll certainly take this if no one else does...


-- 
Javier Velasco M.      -               nurun Chile
Information Architect  -       http://www.nurun.cl
----------------------- --------------------------
--       Personal: http://mantruc.com           --
--        Member of http://evolt.org            --



From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 21 15:51:14 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 21 15:51:14 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <044e01c142e0$31f0b290$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Jeff,

:  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
:  > But, it does raise some issues to decide upon before
:  > we jump in there.  Again, do we want to discuss
:  > particulars now?  Some of the nuances of this affect
:  > 5 and 6 (Linking related articles and tracking views)
:  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
:
: as well as a fairly significant database change as well.
:
: i'd vote to table it for now for further discussion about impact on the
: user and technical implementation.

I just looked over the db architecture a little and it seems that there is
already an association table created for managing the many-to-many
relationship:

http://members.evolt.org/rudy/oracle4.gif

The relationship does not contain any additional information, however, which
may be what is required to gain full value for the investment.  Things that
you can do with the relationship table is include the views (how many times
the article was viewed when it was within a specific category), but
introduces the complexity of deciding which category to jump a user to when
they click on the article off the homepage!  The logical solution would be
to include a default category id, which could be handled by the current
category_id in the content table.

You are right that there are a lot of things to discuss and it is best not
to jump in without thinking about them.  However, I do not believe that
tabling the idea is the best answer.  Instead, we should bounce the ideas
around, examining impact to users and costs involved in implementation, and
then decide to move on it or hold during the first week of October.  That
gives us almost 2 weeks to think about this.

-joshua




From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Sep 21 16:10:17 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Sep 21 16:10:17 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <3BABA9D3.2070707@starkmedia.com>

get the program that sent out the headlines from w.e.o to thelist 
working again, or perhaps have a shell/perl/whatever script do it 
instead of CF

.djc.




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Sep 21 16:10:57 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Sep 21 16:10:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <044e01c142e0$31f0b290$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org>

Joshua,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 01:58 PM 9/21/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > I just looked over the db architecture a little and it
 > seems that there is already an association table
 > created for managing the many-to-many relationship:
 >
 > http://members.evolt.org/rudy/oracle4.gif
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yes, there indeed appears to be an association table in place.  at this 
point in time it's definitely not in use though.  there's far more to 
consider in this situation though.  take a look at the categorys table and 
notice the connection to the cattype table.  i stand by my original 
statement that it's much more involved than simply using an association table.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > The relationship does not contain any additional
 > information, however, which may be what is required
 > to gain full value for the investment.  Things that
 > you can do with the relationship table is include the
 > views (how many times the article was viewed when it
 > was within a specific category),
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

all good ideas.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > but introduces the complexity of deciding which category
 > to jump a user to when they click on the article off the
 > homepage!  The logical solution would be to include a
 > default category id, which could be handled by the
 > current category_id in the content table.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i think i'd lean towards calling it the preferred category, as opposed to 
the default.  it's just semantics though.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > You are right that there are a lot of things to discuss
 > and it is best not to jump in without thinking about
 > them.  However, I do not believe that tabling the idea
 > is the best answer.  Instead, we should bounce the ideas
 > around, examining impact to users and costs involved in
 > implementation, and then decide to move on it or hold
 > during the first week of October.  That gives us almost
 > 2 weeks to think about this.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

there are far too many other things that already deserve development time 
at codefest to have time left to dedicate to this.  instead, there should 
be finalizing discussion taking place on the existing issues in order to 
reach concensus on solutions before development.

thanks,

.jeff




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 16:13:27 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 16:13:27 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: <3BABA9D3.2070707@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c142e2$460417c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Ahh yeah ....

What about the RSS feed .. is something "messed" with that too?  and the
what's it called that allows the side bar in moz and NS6 to display evolt
headlines?  Need to fix that not to use fopen?

I have no clue.   ;)

Mich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Cody" 


| get the program that sent out the headlines from w.e.o to thelist
| working again, or perhaps have a shell/perl/whatever script do it
| instead of CF
|





From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Sep 21 16:32:24 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Sep 21 16:32:24 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BABAF01.1000901@starkmedia.com>

I can see both your points.. I think it *is* a good idea to keep talking 
about it at least untill codefest. The more we talk about possible 
solutions/whatever, the greater chance of something becoming more clear :)

Nothing is 100% set in stone for *exactly* what we're going to be 
working on either.. We may all get together and start talking and decide 
that every page needs at least 4 animated gifs and totally ignore 
unified logins/whatever :)

We can still finalize some things while continuing to talk about others 
here too.. To make it easier on everyone, I'll be putting together a 
'game plan' based on the LOTTD and have it to you all by next week 
before I take off for vacation.. :)

.djc.


.jeff wrote:


>  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>  > You are right that there are a lot of things to discuss
>  > and it is best not to jump in without thinking about
>  > them.  However, I do not believe that tabling the idea
>  > is the best answer.  Instead, we should bounce the ideas
>  > around, examining impact to users and costs involved in
>  > implementation, and then decide to move on it or hold
>  > during the first week of October.  That gives us almost
>  > 2 weeks to think about this.
>  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 
> there are far too many other things that already deserve development 
> time at codefest to have time left to dedicate to this.  instead, there 
> should be finalizing discussion taking place on the existing issues in 
> order to reach concensus on solutions before development.





From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 21 16:48:16 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 21 16:48:16 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <04bd01c142e8$29f51ce0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Jeff,

: yes, there indeed appears to be an association table in place.  at this
: point in time it's definitely not in use though.  there's far more to
: consider in this situation though.  take a look at the categorys table and
: notice the connection to the cattype table.  i stand by my original
: statement that it's much more involved than simply using an association
table.

Alright, I'll bite.  Please explain.  What is the differentiation between
categorys and cattype for?  How is the difference currently implemented on
evolt?

: i think i'd lean towards calling it the preferred category, as opposed to
: the default.  it's just semantics though.

Fine by me.

: there are far too many other things that already deserve development time
: at codefest to have time left to dedicate to this.  instead, there should
: be finalizing discussion taking place on the existing issues in order to
: reach concensus on solutions before development.

I'm sure that you are right that the plates are already full.  It just
caught my eye on the List of Things to Do.  But, it sounds like, from what
you say, that it should not be on the list.  Does anybody else agree?  What
other items need to be considered for removal this time around?

-joshua




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Sep 21 16:59:03 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Sep 21 16:59:03 2001
Subject: [thesite] CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <04bd01c142e8$29f51ce0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010921145303.03ab61a8@members.evolt.org>

joshua,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 02:55 PM 9/21/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > Alright, I'll bite.  Please explain.  What is the
 > differentiation between categorys and cattype for?  How
 > is the difference currently implemented on evolt?
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

well, there are different types of categories.  some categories are for 
thesite.  others are for tips.  now's probably a good time to let you know 
that the cattype table isn't actually in use right now, that i know of.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > I'm sure that you are right that the plates are already
 > full.  It just caught my eye on the List of Things to
 > Do.  But, it sounds like, from what you say, that it
 > should not be on the list.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it'd be a nice to have, but something that should probably be implemented 
along with other bigger changes.  it'd be easier to do if we did things 
like change the architecture to support multi-page articles, multiple 
authors, etc.  in other words, i think it'd be more appropriate to do 
during a restructuring of the database and site architecture.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > Does anybody else agree?  What other items need to be
 > considered for removal this time around?
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

good question.  we should probably put some time into prioritization at 
this point.

thanks,

.jeff




From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 21 17:08:42 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 21 17:08:42 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921145303.03ab61a8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <04cb01c142eb$04eeef40$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Hey all,

: it'd be a nice to have, but something that should probably be implemented
: along with other bigger changes.  it'd be easier to do if we did things
: like change the architecture to support multi-page articles, multiple
: authors, etc.  in other words, i think it'd be more appropriate to do
: during a restructuring of the database and site architecture.

This is not the first I've heard about these changes, but I do not remember
seeing them on the LOTTD.  What else falls into the etc of that sentence?

Multi-page articles: fairly straight-forward.  But, there are some things to
consider.  1) each page needs a title, as well as the overall article.  With
each page having a title you can have an index page at the front of the
article.  Additionally, you may want to include synopses of each page AND
the entire article.  How much of this has already been discussed?

Multi-authorship: again, fairly straightforward... multiple people can
collaborate on an article until it's marked as completed by the team leader.
But, there are issues to consider here.  Do you lock the article so only one
person can edit it?  What about multi-page articles?  Does the team leader
assign pages to people, or is it a free grab of pages?  How about locking?

I'm sure that all these issues have been discussed right under my nose.  Can
someone please recap those conversations too?

TIA,
-joshua




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Sep 21 17:50:39 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Sep 21 17:50:39 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
In-Reply-To: <04cb01c142eb$04eeef40$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010921145303.03ab61a8@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010921153031.03aa5eb8@members.evolt.org>

joshua,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 03:16 PM 9/21/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > This is not the first I've heard about these changes,
 > but I do not remember seeing them on the LOTTD.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

these are all ideas i have for improvements to the current evolt.org 
cms.  i've mentioned them in the past under the label of v3.0 features.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > What else falls into the etc of that sentence?
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

1) new database architecture
2) improved cf architecture
3) webserver modifications

it's a fairly long list.  unfortunately, i don't have time to come up with 
all of it right now.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > Multi-page articles: fairly straight-forward.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

not in the current database and cf architecture.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > But, there are some things to consider.  1) each page
 > needs a title, as well as the overall article.  With
 > each page having a title you can have an index page at
 > the front of the article.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

let me just say that i hate index pages at the beginning.  i want to see 
content on the first page.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > Additionally, you may want to include synopses of each
 > page AND the entire article.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

or, you may wish to simply display links to the various pages in the 
article if they exist.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > How much of this has already been discussed?
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

next to nothing

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > Multi-authorship: again, fairly straightforward...
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

agreed, however the current architecture does not support it.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > multiple people can collaborate on an article until
 > it's marked as completed by the team leader.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

provided you want to take it to that level of implementation.  i don't see 
that as a necessary element.  in fact, i see priv3+ being the only users 
capable of assigning additional authors to an article.

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > I'm sure that all these issues have been discussed
 > right under my nose.  Can someone please recap those
 > conversations too?
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

nope, don't sweat it.  this is all new.

thanks,

.jeff




From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:06:10 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:06:10 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <00b901c142e2$460417c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 21, 2001 05:13:33 PM
Message-ID: <200109212308.RAA03042@alice.monkeyland.ca>

I fixed the Moz/NN6 sidebar some time ago.  I got the PHP script to
run a Perl script to grab the articles.xml file.  The articles.xml
file needs to be updated though.  I don't know what the process for
updating it was before.

Dean


Michele Foster writes:

> What about the RSS feed .. is something "messed" with that too?  and
> the what's it called that allows the side bar in moz and NS6 to
> display evolt headlines?  Need to fix that not to use fopen?



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:09:49 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:09:49 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <004101c142c3$c2a90fc0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921123242.00affce8@members.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921140156.00aefff8@members.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010921145303.03ab61a8@members.evolt.org> <04cb01c142eb$04eeef40$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <010501c142f2$7faabfa0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Hey Folks ..

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" 




|
| This is not the first I've heard about these changes, but I do not
remember
| seeing them on the LOTTD.  What else falls into the etc of that sentence?



Just a small comment here ..

The LOTTD that I've been passing around is for discussion purposes at this
time.  I created it based on previous conversations from thesite and Admin,
as well as conversation in IRC, off-list, whatever.

IOW, its all open for discussion.  My intention is just to get us all
talking about what we want to accomplish at CodeFest.

Now's the time for all ideas to be brought up.  :)  (I'll do my best to keep
track of the various conversations.)


Keep on talking ....

Mich





From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 18:11:03 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:11:03 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <200109212308.RAA03042@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

This articles.xml?
http://evolt.org/xml/articles.xml

And... you made sure to be running that through the webserver, right? Not
just grabbing the file...

If it's something else, let me know exactly what's wrong and I'll see if I
can do something.


Thanks,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

On Sep 21, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>I fixed the Moz/NN6 sidebar some time ago.  I got the PHP script to
>run a Perl script to grab the articles.xml file.  The articles.xml
>file needs to be updated though.  I don't know what the process for
>updating it was before.
>
>Dean




From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:20:19 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:20:19 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 21, 2001 07:11:29 PM
Message-ID: <200109212322.RAA03131@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Well I don't know if there's anything wrong with it, per se.  However,
it returns a lot of articles, 19, but the front page only shows, 10.

How many is it supposed to return?  Should it be limited to 10?  Or is
it limited by date?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Dean


Warden, Matt writes:

> This articles.xml?
> http://evolt.org/xml/articles.xml
> 
> And... you made sure to be running that through the webserver, right? Not
> just grabbing the file...
> 
> If it's something else, let me know exactly what's wrong and I'll see if I
> can do something.



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:20:36 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:20:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: <200109212308.RAA03042@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: <010e01c142f3$fe5739e0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Dean,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Mah" 


| I fixed the Moz/NN6 sidebar some time ago.


Sorry about that .. I hadn't realized it was fixed.  Didn't know I had to go
back to the source code FAQ page and click the link again to get it to work
(and hide the other sidebar).  It works fine here.


I got the PHP script to
| run a Perl script to grab the articles.xml file.  The articles.xml
| file needs to be updated though.  I don't know what the process for
| updating it was before.
|

I don't know what's happened to those files (xml and rdf ones).  For some
reason its grabbing the first 19 articles, when before it was the first 10
articles (I think).


Mich






From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 18:28:18 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:28:18 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <200109212322.RAA03131@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 21, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>Well I don't know if there's anything wrong with it, per se.  However,
>it returns a lot of articles, 19, but the front page only shows, 10.
>
>How many is it supposed to return?  Should it be limited to 10?  Or is
>it limited by date?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Lazy inquiring minds?  =)

select
        content.contentid, content.contentname, content.body,
        content.datemod, users.userid, users.who,
        categorys.category, categorys.categoryid
from content,users,categorys
where content.signoff=1
and content.userid=users.userid
and content.datemod > '#dateformat(lastweek, "dd-MMM-yyyy")#'
and content.categoryid=categorys.categoryid
and content.categoryid <> 26
order by content.datemod desc

the line you wanna look at is:

and content.datemod > '#dateformat(lastweek, "dd-MMM-yyyy")#'


So, it's the articles with a datemod within the last week... I suppose.


So's, youns got issues?


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:31:25 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:31:25 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: <200109212322.RAA03131@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: <011901c142f5$8836d480$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

To add another comment to this thread ....

How come the feeds look like crap in NS6/Moz?  Is that how they are supposed
to appear?  I don't think they are.  I can provide screen shots if you guys
have no clue what I'm talking about. ;)

In NS6/Moz the feeds are useless as they appear .. maybe it should be
opening a text file instead?

Interestingly .. I just fired up NS 4.7 to see what happened, and I'm
prompted what I want to do with the files.  I saved them, and opened them in
a notepad, and they are fine.  (Looks like IE tried to launch the files
directly with an xml extension.)

I have no clue.  ;)

Mich



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Mah" 


| Well I don't know if there's anything wrong with it, per se.  However,
| it returns a lot of articles, 19, but the front page only shows, 10.





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:34:30 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:34:30 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <011e01c142f5$f5877300$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Matt,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warden, Matt" 

|
| the line you wanna look at is:
|
| and content.datemod > '#dateformat(lastweek, "dd-MMM-yyyy")#'
|
|
| So, it's the articles with a datemod within the last week... I suppose.
|


Is datemod the article publication date?  I'm guessing it is (what else
would it be).

The last article appearing on the list is August 23rd.  So, that's almost a
month.

??

Mich





From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 18:43:15 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:43:15 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <011901c142f5$8836d480$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 21, Michele Foster had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>Interestingly .. I just fired up NS 4.7 to see what happened, and I'm
>prompted what I want to do with the files.  I saved them, and opened them in
>a notepad, and they are fine.  (Looks like IE tried to launch the files
>directly with an xml extension.)

It's based first on the http header Content-Type, which is text/xml in
this case, as it should be. The browser handles it however it handles xml
files.

Regardless, these xml files aren't really for public view. If you're just
talking about line breaks, etc, well... don't worry about it. =)



--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:52:28 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:52:28 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <010e01c142f3$fe5739e0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 21, 2001 07:20:19 PM
Message-ID: <200109212355.RAA03337@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Sorry I never said anything once it was fixed.  I didn't think anyone
but me was using it.  :)

Dean


Michele Foster writes:

> | I fixed the Moz/NN6 sidebar some time ago.
> 
> Sorry about that .. I hadn't realized it was fixed.  Didn't know I
> had to go back to the source code FAQ page and click the link again
> to get it to work (and hide the other sidebar).  It works fine here.



From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 21 18:58:27 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Sep 21 18:58:27 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 21, 2001 07:28:44 PM
Message-ID: <200109220001.SAA03381@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Ummm.... where did you get this from?  I do not seem to have access to
the production Web server.

Dean


Warden, Matt writes:

> >How many is it supposed to return?  Should it be limited to 10?  Or is
> >it limited by date?  Inquiring minds want to know.
> 
> Lazy inquiring minds?  =)
> 
> select
>         content.contentid, content.contentname, content.body,
>         content.datemod, users.userid, users.who,
>         categorys.category, categorys.categoryid
> from content,users,categorys
> where content.signoff=1
> and content.userid=users.userid
> and content.datemod > '#dateformat(lastweek, "dd-MMM-yyyy")#'
> and content.categoryid=categorys.categoryid
> and content.categoryid <> 26
> order by content.datemod desc
> 
> the line you wanna look at is:
> 
> and content.datemod > '#dateformat(lastweek, "dd-MMM-yyyy")#'
> 
> 
> So, it's the articles with a datemod within the last week... I suppose.



From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Fri Sep 21 19:00:03 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Fri Sep 21 19:00:03 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <200109220001.SAA03381@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

Dean, i thought you and rudy (and dan) were the only ones WITH access to
production...

anyways, i got it from leo:/home/evolttest/pub*/evolt/xml

=)



Thanks,

--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

On Sep 21, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>Ummm.... where did you get this from?  I do not seem to have access to
>the production Web server.




From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 21 19:02:35 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Sep 21 19:02:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <011901c142f5$8836d480$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 21, 2001 07:31:24 PM
Message-ID: <200109220005.SAA03397@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Michele Foster writes:

> How come the feeds look like crap in NS6/Moz?

I don't think that you are supposed to look directly at the feeds.
That's like looking directly at the sun.

You should be viewing the feeds through some other application, like
the sidebar script or Morbus's Amphetadesk.  (You owe me for the plug,
man.)

Dean



From dmah at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 21 19:06:46 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Fri Sep 21 19:06:46 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 21, 2001 08:00:26 PM
Message-ID: <200109220009.SAA03463@alice.monkeyland.ca>

My password doesn't seem to work anymore.  Must have missed the
meeting where they were changed.  :)  Oh well.  The burden falls to
Rudy.

Thanks for the pointer to leo though.

Dean


Warden, Matt writes:

> Dean, i thought you and rudy (and dan) were the only ones WITH
> access to production...
>
> anyways, i got it from leo:/home/evolttest/pub*/evolt/xml



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Sep 21 19:22:50 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Sep 21 19:22:50 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: multiple categories (was CodeFest: Flights and LOTTD)
Message-ID: <01c142fc$b7e64d80$d749149a@rudy>

> Rudeman already has the db structure laid out for this,
> though i don't believe it's implemented in any of the
> databases.
>
> http://members.evolt.org/rudy/oracle4.gif


multiple categories per article?  yes the structure is there

and if i had been even marginally more productive lately, we should already
have had one working example in f.e.o by now (matt, see comment below)

please note that multiple categories is *not* the same animal as multiple
centers (to use the old word for the classification of our articles --
Backend, IA/Usability, Commentary, etc.)

if i recall from 1999 (i think it was), the discussion on multiple centers,
which was long and lively, concluded that we did not want an article in
multiple centers, nor did we really need it -- the rationale for this, if i
recall, was that people are unlikely to miss an important article by
looking exclusively in one center, they would probably use the search
function, in which case relevant articles would show up no matter what
center they're in

second major point is that there definitely are more categories than just
the centers -- but none are as yet implemented, simply because of the
backwards compatibility problem with existing code

this backwards compatibility problem is not one that i have personally
verified -- perhaps jeff can chime in here -- but it is one that i
anticipate

the problem arises in any query that utilizes the categorys table on the
assumption that all the rows in it are centers (which was the initial
evolt 1.0 implementation)

for example, the dropdown list on each w.e.o page is generated from the
categorys table, but what we must do is ensure that the query selects only
those rows where the cattype foreign key points to the cattype row for
"Center" (this could be hardcoded as an absolute value of the FK, no need
to do the actual join to the cattype table)

okay, given this background, you can now see that the introduction of the
second cattype after "Center" has a potential backwards compatibility
problem

i hope this explanation is helpful

perhaps this could be looked at in the next couple of weeks to see what, if
any, changes to the code would be necessary to eliminate the problem of
introducing additional categories


rudy


matt, this backwards compatibility problem is not the reason i have
procrastinated the implementation of your f.e.o attributes

there's just a lot going on here in my life right now, and working on
anything for more than a couple of hours at a time is proving to be quite
difficult

but i haven't forgotten, and it's right up there on my list of things to do
(in fact it's number three, behind the salons database and some changes for
a paying client -- not that i have a lot of these, but i do have to keep
them happy...)







From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Sep 21 19:24:51 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Sep 21 19:24:51 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <01c142fd$0bc67880$d749149a@rudy>

>  The burden falls to Rudy.

production web server?  i don't think i have that
(if i do, i've never used it)

i do have access to the production database
but i haven't changed anything in there in ages

rudy




From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 02:43:38 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 02:43:38 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
Message-ID: <200109220746.BAA04857@alice.monkeyland.ca>

It's taken me all day but I have mastered Cold Fusion.

Actually I just took Seth's thelist archive CF code and tweaked a few
things to produce:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest

Next up: search.

Dean



From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 03:24:22 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Sat Sep 22 03:24:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <200109220824.f8M8OMR6003567@leo.evolt.org>




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 03:37:16 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Sat Sep 22 03:37:16 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <200109220837.f8M8bFZT004348@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01

.au Redelegated Despite Opposition
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html

Die Dreamweaver, Die!
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 03:38:25 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Sat Sep 22 03:38:25 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <200109220838.f8M8cOi0004470@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01

.au Redelegated Despite Opposition
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html

Die Dreamweaver, Die!
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team




From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 03:43:48 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 03:43:48 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <3BABA9D3.2070707@starkmedia.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Sep 21, 2001 03:57:55 PM
Message-ID: <200109220846.CAA05124@alice.monkeyland.ca>

I whipped up a quick Perl script to e-mail the article headlines for
the current day only.  It will run at 11:55pm each day.

I was testing it for Sep 4, 2001.  There were two articles on that day.

Make sense?  Look okay?  Need changes?

Dean


Daniel J. Cody writes:

> get the program that sent out the headlines from w.e.o to thelist 
> working again, or perhaps have a shell/perl/whatever script do it 
> instead of CF



From hblair at hotfootmail.com  Sat Sep 22 07:17:40 2001
From: hblair at hotfootmail.com (Hugh Blair)
Date: Sat Sep 22 07:17:40 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109220746.BAA04857@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

+1

-Hugh
____________________________
http://www.wholesalenics.net 

> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dean Mah
> Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
> 
> 
> It's taken me all day but I have mastered Cold Fusion.
> 
> Actually I just took Seth's thelist archive CF code and tweaked a few
> things to produce:
> 
>    http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest
> 
> Next up: search.
> 
> Dean



From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Sep 22 08:40:31 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Sep 22 08:40:31 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109220746.BAA04857@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 22, Dean Mah had something to say about [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester

>It's taken me all day but I have mastered Cold Fusion.
>
>Actually I just took Seth's thelist archive CF code and tweaked a few
>things to produce:
>
>   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest
>
>Next up: search.

Sweet, dean.

Can we change how the individual tip is linked? Currently the link
surrounds the tip type text, which implies (to me) that clicking on it
will get me a list of tips of that type. See:

http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20010827.html

(mwarden strikes off "CF" from the list of things dean can't do and
realizes only "ASP" and "Brain Surgery" remain)


You rockx0rz.


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Sep 22 08:45:43 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Sep 22 08:45:43 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <200109220846.CAA05124@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 22, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>I whipped up a quick Perl script to e-mail the article headlines for
>the current day only.  It will run at 11:55pm each day.
>
>I was testing it for Sep 4, 2001.  There were two articles on that day.
>
>Make sense?  Look okay?  Need changes?
>
>Dean

I think we listed author and category before. I'd like to see author back
in there, at least.

And maybe change "from the evolt.org admin team" to "from evolt.org" or
something... especially since the content itself isn't coming from admin
and one might make that association (many people on thelist already think
admin rights all the content, and i'd rather not do anything to further
that).

cool?

dean for president!


... er, i guess it's 'prime minister' over there.



--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Sep 22 09:57:01 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Sep 22 09:57:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
References: 
Message-ID: <01a401c14376$db062720$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warden, Matt" 


| >   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest
| >
| >Next up: search.
|
| Sweet, dean.

+1

Looking very good.  :)

|
| Can we change how the individual tip is linked? Currently the link
| surrounds the tip type text, which implies (to me) that clicking on it
| will get me a list of tips of that type. See:
|
|
http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20010827.htm
l


Actually, I didn't have a problem with that .. how about changing the title
of the column from "Type" to "Tip Title" ?  Would that be enough from a
usability perspective?  Or, Matt what did you want linked? Another column
with "view" in it, and link that instead?

Dean, can you add  Next Tip (and Previous Tip) links like exists on thelist
archive (Seth's sample)?

This is awesome ... :)

Dean, need any help giving titles to the "unclassified" ones?


Michele













From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Sep 22 09:57:06 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Sep 22 09:57:06 2001
Subject: Article Headlines .. was .. Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <01a501c14376$de550400$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warden, Matt" 

| On Sep 22, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD
|
| >I whipped up a quick Perl script to e-mail the article headlines for
| >the current day only.  It will run at 11:55pm each day.
| >
| >Dean

|
| I think we listed author and category before. I'd like to see author back
| in there, at least.

Yes, me too.  (err .. +1)

Someone also suggested including the synopsis of the article, as well.  Is
that easy to do?


|
| And maybe change "from the evolt.org admin team" to "from evolt.org" or

+1


I didn't even have a chance to add it to the LOTTD   :)


Thanks Dean,

Michele





From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Sep 22 10:10:57 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Sep 22 10:10:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <01c14378$3c7f5980$d948149a@rudy>

great job on the tips, too, dean

> And maybe change "from the evolt.org admin team" 
> to "from evolt.org" 

yes, please

good call, matt


r




From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 11:49:13 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 11:49:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 22, 2001 09:46:13 AM
Message-ID: <200109221652.KAA01035@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Warden, Matt writes:

> I think we listed author and category before.

I pulled the format from thesite archive, Nov 6, 2000, and that is all
that it had.


> I'd like to see author back in there, at least.

The author is back in.


> And maybe change "from the evolt.org admin team" to "from evolt.org"

Done.  I'm totally open to wording and format changes.  I don't really
like the way it looks now.  I was just going by what I had seen in the
archive.


Dean



From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 12:06:49 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Sat Sep 22 12:06:49 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <200109221706.f8MH6m46023515@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01

Title   : .au Redelegated Despite Opposition
Author  : isaac
Category: News
Link    : http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html
Synopsis: Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the
	  original .AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au
	  registrar, Melbourne IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority
	  to auDA.

Title   : Die Dreamweaver, Die!
Author  : danfascia
Category: Software
Link    : http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html
Synopsis: A designer's frustrations with Dreamweaver, the web's most
	  popular WYSIWYG design package.


Happy reading...

from evolt.org




From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 12:09:58 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 12:09:58 2001
Subject: Article Headlines .. was .. Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <01a501c14376$de550400$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 22, 2001 10:55:14 AM
Message-ID: <200109221712.LAA01123@alice.monkeyland.ca>

The synopsis and the category have been added to the mailing.  As well
I've changed the format.

Anything else?

Dean


Michele Foster writes:

> Someone also suggested including the synopsis of the article, as
> well.  Is that easy to do?



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sat Sep 22 12:12:12 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sat Sep 22 12:12:12 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: <200109221706.f8MH6m46023515@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <01d901c14389$be37e800$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Works for me ..... nice job .. thanks Dean :) 

Mich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Headlines" 


| evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01





From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 12:26:35 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 12:26:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 22, 2001 09:41:01 AM
Message-ID: <200109221728.LAA01189@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Warden, Matt writes:

> Can we change how the individual tip is linked? Currently the link
> surrounds the tip type text, which implies (to me) that clicking on
> it will get me a list of tips of that type. See:

What would you suggest?


> (mwarden strikes off "CF" from the list of things dean can't do and
> realizes only "ASP" and "Brain Surgery" remain)

If I am ever forced to learn ASP, I might as well take up brain
surgery as well and give myself a frontal lobotomy.  :P

Dean



From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 13:02:03 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 13:02:03 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <01a401c14376$db062720$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 22, 2001 10:51:33 AM
Message-ID: <200109221804.MAA01332@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Michele Foster writes:

> Actually, I didn't have a problem with that .. how about changing
> the title of the column from "Type" to "Tip Title" ?

I have changed the column name.  Let me know if this is enough.


> Dean, can you add Next Tip (and Previous Tip) links like exists on
> thelist archive (Seth's sample)?

Added.

Dean



From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Sep 22 13:34:00 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Sep 22 13:34:00 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109221728.LAA01189@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 22, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] New Look Tip...

>Warden, Matt writes:
>
>> Can we change how the individual tip is linked? Currently the link
>> surrounds the tip type text, which implies (to me) that clicking on
>> it will get me a list of tips of that type. See:
>
>What would you suggest?

I dunno. Maybe the first N characters like a.e.o's email section?

>> (mwarden strikes off "CF" from the list of things dean can't do and
>> realizes only "ASP" and "Brain Surgery" remain)
>
>If I am ever forced to learn ASP, I might as well take up brain
>surgery as well and give myself a frontal lobotomy.  :P

... should have seen that one coming...

negative points for originality, I'm afraid.


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 13:49:22 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep 22 13:49:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
Message-ID: <03d9b1050181691PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Joshua Olson wrote on 21/9/01 11:16 pm

>Multi-authorship: again, fairly straightforward... multiple people can
>collaborate on an article until it's marked as completed by the team leader.
>But, there are issues to consider here.  Do you lock the article so only one
>person can edit it?  What about multi-page articles?  Does the team leader
>assign pages to people, or is it a free grab of pages?  How about locking?


You have 3 options:
1) Only one person actually puts the article into the system, but can
    nominate co-authors
2) A linear workflow where one person puts the article into the system,
   another adds their bit, and repeat until everyone's contributed (each 
author
   only gets one go)
3) A CVS type system with checkout/checkin.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 13:55:45 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep 22 13:55:45 2001
Subject: [thesite] Old Article Revival
Message-ID: <04db13256181691PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

mantruc wrote on 21/9/01 8:19 pm

>i see these articles in the lower part of the home (center, not
>sidebar), under a title like "gems from the past" or such. 

+1

>
>i think it should be only one article at a time

A small number, which will be based on what's happening at
the time. I'd like to keep the flexibility.

>someone or some group shuold take the lead to select which articles to
>refloat

Yes - and I'd expect part of the criteria to be "stuff that's related
to threads on thelist", and also "stuff that's related to a recent
article"

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 13:57:25 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep 22 13:57:25 2001
Subject: [thesite] Re: full list ordered by ranking (was Old Article Revival)
Message-ID: <044ec1458181691PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

mantruc wrote on 21/9/01 8:41 pm

>[about old resurrected articles]
>
>nobody said the current articles would go away faster...
>can't the page just be longer down?

+1

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 13:57:47 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 13:57:47 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 22, 2001 02:33:16 PM
Message-ID: <200109221900.NAA01612@alice.monkeyland.ca>

First N characters of what?

- The canonical tip type?  Most of the tip tips are short in length so
  link only parts of it doesn't make sense.

- The given tip type?  A lot or most of the tips do not have types
  assigned to them by their authors.

- The subject?  Pulled from the message usually doesn't make sense
  since the message subject and the tip are usually independent.

- The tip?  There's probably not enough context in the beginning of a
  tip to make this useful, especially for code fragments.  Although we
  could try it.  What would column would you put this under?

Dean


Warden, Matt writes:

> >Warden, Matt writes:
> >
> >> Can we change how the individual tip is linked? Currently the link
> >> surrounds the tip type text, which implies (to me) that clicking on
> >> it will get me a list of tips of that type. See:
> >
> >What would you suggest?
> 
> I dunno. Maybe the first N characters like a.e.o's email section?



From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sat Sep 22 14:27:49 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sat Sep 22 14:27:49 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109221900.NAA01612@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 22, Dean Mah had something to say about Re: [thesite] New Look Tip...

>First N characters of what?
...
>- The tip?  There's probably not enough context in the beginning of a
>  tip to make this useful, especially for code fragments.  Although we
>  could try it.  What would column would you put this under?

Yeah, this last one. I was just thinking of something better than
"view". I guess it's really not much of an improvement. So, I guess leave
it as it is unless someone can think of something better.


Thanks Dean,


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com





From djc at starkmedia.com  Sat Sep 22 16:11:43 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:11:43 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: <200109221706.f8MH6m46023515@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3BACFBAA.9040903@starkmedia.com>

looks awesome. nice work dean :)

.djc.

Headlines wrote:

> evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01
> 
> Title   : .au Redelegated Despite Opposition
> Author  : isaac
> Category: News
> Link    : http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html
> Synopsis: Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the
> 	  original .AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au
> 	  registrar, Melbourne IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority
> 	  to auDA.
> 
> Title   : Die Dreamweaver, Die!
> Author  : danfascia
> Category: Software
> Link    : http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html
> Synopsis: A designer's frustrations with Dreamweaver, the web's most
> 	  popular WYSIWYG design package.





From djc at starkmedia.com  Sat Sep 22 16:12:35 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:12:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <3BACFBDE.2070306@starkmedia.com>


Warden, Matt wrote:


> And maybe change "from the evolt.org admin team" to "from evolt.org" or


+1


.djc.





From djc at starkmedia.com  Sat Sep 22 16:14:55 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:14:55 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
References: 
Message-ID: <3BACFC6A.9070602@starkmedia.com>

coolio!!!

the only suggestion i have is to allow the user to sort by date, title, 
or author

if you aren't around on monday i can do it :)

.djc.

Warden, Matt wrote:

> On Sep 22, Dean Mah had something to say about [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
> 
> 
>>It's taken me all day but I have mastered Cold Fusion.
>>
>>Actually I just took Seth's thelist archive CF code and tweaked a few
>>things to produce:
>>
>>  http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest
>>
>>Next up: search.
>>
> 
> Sweet, dean.






From djc at starkmedia.com  Sat Sep 22 16:17:32 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:17:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] w.e.o down for a minute..
Message-ID: <3BACFD07.4000907@starkmedia.com>

need a reboot to drop a new kernel in, should only take about 2 minutes :)

.djc.




From djc at starkmedia.com  Sat Sep 22 16:28:25 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:28:25 2001
Subject: [thesite] w.e.o down for a minute..
References: <3BACFD07.4000907@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3BACFF94.1000008@starkmedia.com>

everythings back and just smurfy

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

> need a reboot to drop a new kernel in, should only take about 2 minutes :)
> 
> .djc.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite





From gnarly at punkass.com  Sat Sep 22 16:40:56 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:40:56 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <03d9b1050181691PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <005301c143af$2ae8eb50$0100a8c0@uridium>

I have only just rejoined theSite, so am new to this thread, but I think I
see whats going on...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Content Upgrades


> You have 3 options:
> 1) Only one person actually puts the article into the system, but can
>     nominate co-authors
> 2) A linear workflow where one person puts the article into the system,
>    another adds their bit, and repeat until everyone's contributed (each
> author
>    only gets one go)
> 3) A CVS type system with checkout/checkin.

I favour a CVS type system - it saves people overwriting other peoples
work/two people editing the document at once etc etc, and allows more than
one bite at the cherry IYSWIM.

Cheers,

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -





From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Sep 22 16:59:32 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Sep 22 16:59:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
Message-ID: <0be872200221691PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Olly Hodgson wrote on 22/9/01 10:39 pm

>> 1) Only one person actually puts the article into the system, but can
>>     nominate co-authors
>> 2) A linear workflow where one person puts the article into the system,
>>    another adds their bit, and repeat until everyone's contributed (each
>> author
>>    only gets one go)
>> 3) A CVS type system with checkout/checkin.
>
>I favour a CVS type system - it saves people overwriting other peoples
>work/two people editing the document at once etc etc, and allows more than
>one bite at the cherry IYSWIM.

I think so, but it would be useful to nominate an 'owner' amongst the 
writers,
who's accountable for the article as a whole, and can formally submit
it for approval and say "We've finished writing it", to ensure clarity
and avoid the "Is this finished or not?" debate.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From joshua at alphashop.com  Sat Sep 22 17:04:38 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Sep 22 17:04:38 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <0be872200221691PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <060101c143b3$9e28de50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

What about this flavor:

One person actually owns/operates the entire article.  This person can
sublet pages of the article to someone else, one at a time.  The subletted
pages are locked and only accessible for edit by the person the owner gave
it to, though the owner can read the page.  Then, when the person is done
with the page, they release it back to the owner.  When the article is done,
the owner submits it for approval.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Content Upgrades


: Olly Hodgson wrote on 22/9/01 10:39 pm
:
: >> 1) Only one person actually puts the article into the system, but can
: >>     nominate co-authors
: >> 2) A linear workflow where one person puts the article into the system,
: >>    another adds their bit, and repeat until everyone's contributed
(each
: >> author
: >>    only gets one go)
: >> 3) A CVS type system with checkout/checkin.
: >
: >I favour a CVS type system - it saves people overwriting other peoples
: >work/two people editing the document at once etc etc, and allows more
than
: >one bite at the cherry IYSWIM.
:
: I think so, but it would be useful to nominate an 'owner' amongst the
: writers,
: who's accountable for the article as a whole, and can formally submit
: it for approval and say "We've finished writing it", to ensure clarity
: and avoid the "Is this finished or not?" debate.
:
: Cheers
: Martin




From joshua at alphashop.com  Sat Sep 22 17:06:39 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Sep 22 17:06:39 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <0be872200221691PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk> <060101c143b3$9e28de50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <060701c143b3$e96630c0$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Oh yeah, one more thing.  When the owner sublets a page, they add a "date to
retrieve" to the page.  At this date, the editing rights for the page return
to the owner no matter what.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [thesite] Content Upgrades


: What about this flavor:
:
: One person actually owns/operates the entire article.  This person can
: sublet pages of the article to someone else, one at a time.  The subletted
: pages are locked and only accessible for edit by the person the owner gave
: it to, though the owner can read the page.  Then, when the person is done
: with the page, they release it back to the owner.  When the article is
done,
: the owner submits it for approval.
:
: -joshua




From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Sep 22 17:09:04 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Sep 22 17:09:04 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
Message-ID: <01c143b3$281423a0$c548149a@rudy>

> it would be useful to nominate an 'owner' amongst the writers,
> who's accountable for the article as a whole, and can formally 
> submit it for approval 

+1

not to mention, this is the "least pain" method 

the database supports only one author per article

honest-to-goodness multiple authors per article requires 
a *substantial* database change, as well as tearing the code apart

so, primary author is the best way, in my opinion

secondary or additional or co-authors can be acknowledged
in the body of the article, maybe in an h4 or something

aard's gonna shoot me, 'cause he wants an h2 and an h3
in betwixt the article h1 and any subsequent h4, but i still
say that's crap, you don't have to have the intermediate
levels...  it'll even validate...

... but then, i'm a hacker, not a structure maven...


rude




From joshua at alphashop.com  Sat Sep 22 17:49:04 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat Sep 22 17:49:04 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <01c143b3$281423a0$c548149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <061701c143b9$d66a3560$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "rudy" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Content Upgrades


: > it would be useful to nominate an 'owner' amongst the writers,
: > who's accountable for the article as a whole, and can formally
: > submit it for approval
:
: +1
:
: not to mention, this is the "least pain" method
:
: the database supports only one author per article
:
: honest-to-goodness multiple authors per article requires
: a *substantial* database change, as well as tearing the code apart
:
: so, primary author is the best way, in my opinion
:
: secondary or additional or co-authors can be acknowledged
: in the body of the article, maybe in an h4 or something

It depends on what the point of having a multi-authorship system, I suppose.
If it is supposed to let you search the articles by author and include the
same article under different people, then simply including a reference in
the body would not be enough.  If the idea was to give "cubes" to multiple
people for participation, then again, a reference in the body would not be
enough.  A change would have to be made to incorporate these two things, but
they can be accomplished without any complex CVS system like we've
discussed.

It would require a table to link authors to content, a step in the
generation to give credit to authors and modification of search algorithms,
but it's not really too extensive in comparison.

If the goal of multi-authorship is to truly delegate copy creation rights to
multiple people, then a very serious db change and interface creation would
be in order... IOW, it could not be coded in a weekend as it is is a truly
expansive mod from the current design.

 From what .jeff mentioned, it was really hard to ascertain the purpose of
the multi-authorship.  So I ask the question, why have multi-authorship?
What does it bring to evolt that cannot already be accomplished in other
ways?  Will people use it?

: aard's gonna shoot me, 'cause he wants an h2 and an h3
: in betwixt the article h1 and any subsequent h4, but i still
: say that's crap, you don't have to have the intermediate
: levels...  it'll even validate...

H1 are for indexing, not layout.  Add a style to your H tags to change there
size, color, etc.  :)

-joshua

: ... but then, i'm a hacker, not a structure maven...
:
:
: rude





From gnarly at punkass.com  Sat Sep 22 17:49:28 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Sat Sep 22 17:49:28 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
References: <0be872200221691PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <009c01c143b5$441409b0$0100a8c0@uridium>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Content Upgrades


> Olly Hodgson wrote on 22/9/01 10:39 pm
>
> >> 1) Only one person actually puts the article into the system, but can
> >>     nominate co-authors
> >> 2) A linear workflow where one person puts the article into the system,
> >>    another adds their bit, and repeat until everyone's contributed
(each
> >> author
> >>    only gets one go)
> >> 3) A CVS type system with checkout/checkin.
> >
> >I favour a CVS type system - it saves people overwriting other peoples
> >work/two people editing the document at once etc etc, and allows more
than
> >one bite at the cherry IYSWIM.
>
> I think so, but it would be useful to nominate an 'owner' amongst the
> writers,
> who's accountable for the article as a whole, and can formally submit
> it for approval and say "We've finished writing it", to ensure clarity
> and avoid the "Is this finished or not?" debate.

+1

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -





From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 18:51:44 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 18:51:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <3BACFC6A.9070602@starkmedia.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Sep 22, 2001 04:02:34 PM
Message-ID: <200109222354.RAA09836@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Done.

Dean


Daniel J. Cody writes:

> the only suggestion i have is to allow the user to sort by date,
> title, or author



From dmah at shaw.ca  Sat Sep 22 18:59:22 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Sat Sep 22 18:59:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] articles.xml (was: add: LOTTD)
In-Reply-To:  from "Warden, Matt" at Sep 21, 2001 07:28:44 PM
Message-ID: <200109230001.SAA09969@alice.monkeyland.ca>

The 'lastweek' variable isn't really being set to the last week.  It's
being set to 30 days in the past.

Should this be set to a smaller time interval?

Dean


Warden, Matt writes:

> the line you wanna look at is:
> 
> and content.datemod > '#dateformat(lastweek, "dd-MMM-yyyy")#'
> 
> So, it's the articles with a datemod within the last week... I suppose.



From ashcraft at 13monkeys.com  Sat Sep 22 23:22:08 2001
From: ashcraft at 13monkeys.com (Jeremy Ashcraft)
Date: Sat Sep 22 23:22:08 2001
Subject: [thesite] Content Upgrades
In-Reply-To: <009c01c143b5$441409b0$0100a8c0@uridium>
References: <0be872200221691PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk> <009c01c143b5$441409b0$0100a8c0@uridium>
Message-ID: <01092223175500.05253@mrhat.dynip.com>

> > >> 1) Only one person actually puts the article into the system, but can
> > >>     nominate co-authors
> > >> 2) A linear workflow where one person puts the article into the
> > >> system, another adds their bit, and repeat until everyone's
> > >> contributed
>
> (each
>
> > >> author
> > >>    only gets one go)

> > I think so, but it would be useful to nominate an 'owner' amongst the
> > writers,
> > who's accountable for the article as a whole, and can formally submit
> > it for approval and say "We've finished writing it", to ensure clarity
> > and avoid the "Is this finished or not?" debate.

I have an idea that expands on 1) and 2) above.  One author can start a 
"group" article, add co-authors, and create his/her piece of the article.  
The co-authors could then go in through the regular article submission 
interface and have the option create their piece and have it "linked" to the 
"group" article they were named in or create a normal article.  Once the main 
author is satisfied with the work, he can then submit it.  This way each 
"piece" of the article is no different than a regular article submission, 
except that they are linked together as a "group" article and treated as 
such.  This also may be a start on possibly having a "See related articles" 
link or "More articles on Foo" or something like that.  I don't know what 
kind of code/DB changes this would entail or if it would even be feasible to 
do.  just an idea.

jeremy



From djc at starkmedia.com  Sun Sep 23 18:05:01 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Sun Sep 23 18:05:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] RE: [admin] thelist down?
Message-ID: <3BAE6B49.6020305@starkmedia.com>

Rudy -

Matt set thelist to moderated mode when he noticed on of the Nimda/w32 
infected emails come through.. This was the right thing to do and 
probably saved a shitload more of those virus' from coming through.

thats why it was takinga bit of time for your email to come though today :)

I've updated the filters in MG so that this shouldn't(knock on wood) get 
through anymore and set thelist back to un-moderated .. thanks to matt 
again for taking quick action :)

.djc.




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Sun Sep 23 19:56:44 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Sun Sep 23 19:56:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <200109221706.f8MH6m46023515@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 

How about we change it to this:


---

News: .au Redelegated Despite Opposition (Author: isaac)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html

Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the
original .AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au
registrar, Melbourne IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority
to auDA.

---




Also, I'd like an intro paragraph in there encouraging people to read the
latest articles. Then perhaps something after the listing that encourages
them to comment and/or rate articles. I'm sure everyone is well aware that
we struggle to hit 30-40 ratings for even a popular article (which I think
is pretty crap given that we have x000 members).


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Sun Sep 23 20:07:47 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Sun Sep 23 20:07:47 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109222354.RAA09836@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

Dean,

Left-align the TH's (I'm assuming that's what you're using) on the week
listing template.

Otherwise, it looks good.

isaac




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Sun Sep 23 20:15:13 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Sun Sep 23 20:15:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <3BABA9D3.2070707@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

Regarding my suggestion that custom stylesheets be given a lowered priority,
a quick and effective solution might be to add a field to the member/user
table that allows each person to specify a URL for their preferred
stylesheet. If unused, it defaults to the, err, default. Otherwise they
could specify something hosted on a members MEO page, or on their own
machine, or whatever.

It would allow customisation, but cost minimal development time (add field
to db, alter user display/edit/update templates).


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
(08)83320545 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From gnarly at punkass.com  Sun Sep 23 20:24:36 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Sun Sep 23 20:24:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <025d01c14497$a8629cf0$0100a8c0@uridium>

----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 
Subject: RE: [thesite] add: LOTTD


> Regarding my suggestion that custom stylesheets be given a lowered
priority,
> a quick and effective solution might be to add a field to the member/user
> table that allows each person to specify a URL for their preferred
> stylesheet. If unused, it defaults to the, err, default. Otherwise they
> could specify something hosted on a members MEO page, or on their own
> machine, or whatever.
>
> It would allow customisation, but cost minimal development time (add field
> to db, alter user display/edit/update templates).

You could also a direct link so that the default .CSS file(s) could be
downloaded for the user to edit to their hearts content.

Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -





From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Sep 23 21:19:20 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Sep 23 21:19:20 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <01c1449f$4feff7e0$e247149a@rudy>

isaac, neat idea -- a practical step forward

still, if/when we implement customizable styles i shall lobby
hard to use the table structure that's there now (even if it
requires modification)

we may not yet agree on what needs to be stored, but i am
confident this structure can store style sheet information
easily

as with most apps, designing the database is actually the 
easy part, the tough part is deciding what to put in it    ;o)


> You could also a direct link so that the default .CSS file(s) 
> could be downloaded for the user to edit to their hearts content.

this is possible now

if you look at the source code of an evolt page, you see it
links in a style sheet called isaac.css

what is not obvious is where this file is located

   view-source:http://evolt.org/evolt/isaac.css

actually, i'm not exactly positive that this is same isaac.css 
(jeff may have to confirm the url)

but at least it's close, so you can start foolin around


is mccreath still around?  i think he, martin, aardvark, and 
of course isaac have done customizations


rudy




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Sep 23 21:20:29 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Sep 23 21:20:29 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <01c1449f$952e1a80$e247149a@rudy>

>is mccreath still around?  i think he, martin, aardvark, and 
>of course isaac have done customizations

and probably matt

matt can do anything


apologies if i have left anybody else out

rudy




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Sun Sep 23 21:25:01 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Sun Sep 23 21:25:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <01c1449f$4feff7e0$e247149a@rudy>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 23, rudy had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>we may not yet agree on what needs to be stored, but i am
>confident this structure can store style sheet information
>easily

Yeah, it's all the editing/creation/management tools that would have to be
built that's the time-consuming part.

>what is not obvious is where this file is located
>
>   view-source:http://evolt.org/evolt/isaac.css
>
>actually, i'm not exactly positive that this is same isaac.css 
>(jeff may have to confirm the url)

Yeah, that's it.

The reason it has that "evolt/" dir in it is the base href at the top of
the source.

>>is mccreath still around?  i think he, martin, aardvark, and 
>>of course isaac have done customizations
>
>and probably matt
>
>matt can do anything

pretty much

except picking colors/colours

... and rub my stomach while tapping the top of my head.

and i'm not a very good poker player either.

>apologies if i have left anybody else out

elfur, and ron white(?).


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Sun Sep 23 21:37:52 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Sun Sep 23 21:37:52 2001
Subject: CSS Templates .... was .... Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <02f601c144a1$f75a53c0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Elfur was kind enough to keep track of the various CSS templates that were
created.  Here's her page with links to others.  There are several different
variations within Josh's web-based application as well.

http://members.evolt.org/elfur/evolt/themes/index.html

HTH,

Michele





From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 06:11:10 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 24 06:11:10 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <01c1449f$4feff7e0$e247149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3BAEDC99.12982.1200B854@localhost>

> From: "rudy" 
[...] 
> is mccreath still around?  i think he, martin, aardvark, and 
> of course isaac have done customizations

http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/




From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 07:45:12 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Mon Sep 24 07:45:12 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <200109241245.f8OCjBsO011924@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01

News: .au Redelegated Despite Opposition (Author: isaac)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html

Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the original
.AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au registrar, Melbourne
IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority to auDA.

News: Die Dreamweaver, Die! (Author: danfascia)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html

A designer's frustrations with Dreamweaver, the web's most popular
WYSIWYG design package.


Happy reading...

from evolt.org




From dmah at shaw.ca  Mon Sep 24 07:47:51 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon Sep 24 07:47:51 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To:  from "isaac" at Sep 24, 2001 10:25:58 AM
Message-ID: <200109241250.GAA00849@alice.monkeyland.ca>

isaac writes:

> How about we change it to this:

I've made the changes and submitted a version to thesite.  Let me know
which format everyone prefers or if anyone cares.


> Also, I'd like an intro paragraph in there encouraging people to
> read the latest articles. Then perhaps something after the listing
> that encourages them to comment and/or rate articles.

If someone can write the content for this, I'll insert it into the
message.


Dean



From dmah at shaw.ca  Mon Sep 24 07:49:59 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon Sep 24 07:49:59 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To:  from "isaac" at Sep 24, 2001 10:36:59 AM
Message-ID: <200109241253.GAA00887@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Done.

Dean



isaac writes:

> Left-align the TH's (I'm assuming that's what you're using) on the
> week listing template.



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Sep 24 08:05:21 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Sep 24 08:05:21 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
Message-ID: <01c144f9$ae409ca0$e247149a@rudy>

dean, what are you doing up so early, and where are you getting the
information for the Tip Title?  are you actually reading and classifying
the otherwise unclassified ones?

rudy




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 08:05:33 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 08:05:33 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: <200109241245.f8OCjBsO011924@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <03b201c144f9$a47ebf80$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Dean,

Why does the second article say News ?  That article is in the Software
category.  I'm guessing that the first word indicates the category?

Add an extra space between the two postings please.

Thanks,

Michele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Headlines" 


| evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01
|
| News: .au Redelegated Despite Opposition (Author: isaac)
| http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html
|
| Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the original
| .AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au registrar, Melbourne
| IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority to auDA.
|
| News: Die Dreamweaver, Die! (Author: danfascia)
| http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html
|
| A designer's frustrations with Dreamweaver, the web's most popular
| WYSIWYG design package.
|
|
| Happy reading...
|
| from evolt.org





From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 08:09:06 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 08:09:06 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: 
Message-ID: <03b701c144fa$2773d560$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 
|
| Also, I'd like an intro paragraph in there encouraging people to read the
| latest articles. Then perhaps something after the listing that encourages
| them to comment and/or rate articles. I'm sure everyone is well aware that
| we struggle to hit 30-40 ratings for even a popular article (which I think
| is pretty crap given that we have x000 members).
|

-1 on adding more info to the Headlines notice that gets sent to thelist.
However, I don't feel real strongly against it .. and if you want to propose
some actual text for it .. I'll buy into it.

Mich





From joshua at alphashop.com  Mon Sep 24 09:07:11 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:07:11 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: <3BAEDC99.12982.1200B854@localhost>
Message-ID: <06ac01c14503$488fda10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

At aardvark's page there is a link to the HTML Validate at w3c.  I clicked
it, but it seems that evolt no longer validates.

All of the errors are for character entities, specifically the ‹
characters in the page(s) tool at the bottom of the article list and the
&$149; characters in the sidebar.  :(

Should we address this?

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD


: > From: "rudy" 
: [...]
: > is mccreath still around?  i think he, martin, aardvark, and
: > of course isaac have done customizations
:
: http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/




From dmah at shaw.ca  Mon Sep 24 09:34:42 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:34:42 2001
Subject: [thesite] New Look Tip Harvester
In-Reply-To: <01c144f9$ae409ca0$e247149a@rudy> from "rudy" at Sep 24, 2001 09:06:10 AM
Message-ID: <200109241437.IAA01203@alice.monkeyland.ca>

I get up early to work on evolt in the morning, of course.  :)

Yes, we are classifying all of the tips.  We is Matt, Michelle, and me.

What you see printed out in the summary of the week's tips is the
canonical tip type that we assign.  If that doesn't exist and the tip
was given a type by its author, that is printed out instead.

Dean


rudy writes:

> dean, what are you doing up so early, and where are you getting the
> information for the Tip Title?  are you actually reading and
> classifying the otherwise unclassified ones?



From dmah at shaw.ca  Mon Sep 24 09:36:04 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:36:04 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <03b201c144f9$a47ebf80$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 24, 2001 09:05:53 AM
Message-ID: <200109241439.IAA01213@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Ummm.... yeah.  I suppose it should.  I'll send another test to
thesite.  Of course, if the category name and the article title are
long, they will wrap.

Dean


Michele Foster writes:

> Why does the second article say News ?  That article is in the Software
> category.  I'm guessing that the first word indicates the category?
> 
> Add an extra space between the two postings please.



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 09:43:34 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:43:34 2001
Subject: [thesite] Fw: [the***] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <002201c14507$4f52d240$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Looks good .. we'll see how many extra hits those articles get from thelist
;)

Mich


----- Original Message -----
From: "Headlines" 


| evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01
|
| News: .au Redelegated Despite Opposition (Author: isaac)
| http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html
|
| Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the original
| .AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au registrar, Melbourne
| IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority to auDA.
|
|
| Software: Die Dreamweaver, Die! (Author: danfascia)
| http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/21/15412/index.html
|
| A designer's frustrations with Dreamweaver, the web's most popular
| WYSIWYG design package.





From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 24 09:48:01 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:48:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: 
Message-ID: <3BAF44D9.90606@starkmedia.com>


Warden, Matt wrote:

> On Sep 23, rudy had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD
> 
> 
>>we may not yet agree on what needs to be stored, but i am
>>confident this structure can store style sheet information
>>easily
>>
> 
> Yeah, it's all the editing/creation/management tools that would have to be
> built that's the time-consuming part.


+1

It wouldn't be hard to give out like 10 of the templates we came up with 
a couple months ago as choices for people to use in the meantime. Using 
what rudy already has in place in the DB, i wouldn't think this would be 
too hard..

.djc.







From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 24 09:49:41 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:49:41 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: <3BAEDC99.12982.1200B854@localhost> <06ac01c14503$488fda10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <3BAF453D.4070105@starkmedia.com>

ya we should :)

josh - do you want to a.) make the changes yourself or b.)fire the 
changes that need to be made to thesite and someone who has access can 
make them to t.e.o ?

i'd prefer if you'd make them, although its up to you :)

.djc.

Joshua Olson wrote:

> At aardvark's page there is a link to the HTML Validate at w3c.  I clicked
> it, but it seems that evolt no longer validates.
> 
> All of the errors are for character entities, specifically the ‹
> characters in the page(s) tool at the bottom of the article list and the
> &$149; characters in the sidebar.  :(
> 
> Should we address this?
> 
> -joshua
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "aardvark" 
> Subject: Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD
> 
> 
> : > From: "rudy" 
> : [...]
> : > is mccreath still around?  i think he, martin, aardvark, and
> : > of course isaac have done customizations
> :
> : http://roselli.org/new_evolt/layout/





From dmah at shaw.ca  Mon Sep 24 09:57:05 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Mon Sep 24 09:57:05 2001
Subject: [thesite] Fw: [the***] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <002201c14507$4f52d240$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 24, 2001 10:43:39 AM
Message-ID: <200109241500.JAA01303@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Yeah.  Sorry about that.  I forgot to change the destination e-mail.
Too early in the morning here.  (Yes, I know that it is 9am already).

Dean


Michele Foster writes:

> Looks good .. we'll see how many extra hits those articles get from
> thelist  ;)



From joshua at alphashop.com  Mon Sep 24 10:38:29 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Mon Sep 24 10:38:29 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
References: <3BAEDC99.12982.1200B854@localhost> <06ac01c14503$488fda10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com> <3BAF453D.4070105@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <074001c14510$09e32940$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Sounds fine to me.  The problem that I see is that the entities being used
would have to be replaced by images to have it validate and keep the same
look as current.  We don't want to use images, do we?

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD


: ya we should :)
:
: josh - do you want to a.) make the changes yourself or b.)fire the
: changes that need to be made to thesite and someone who has access can
: make them to t.e.o ?
:
: i'd prefer if you'd make them, although its up to you :)
:
: .djc.




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 11:38:29 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 24 11:38:29 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <06ac01c14503$488fda10$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
Message-ID: <200109241638.f8OGcSZe031420@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Joshua Olson" 
>
> At aardvark's page there is a link to the HTML Validate at w3c.  I
> clicked it, but it seems that evolt no longer validates.

hold on there, slugger... take a look at that link again:
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Froselli.org%2Fne
w_evolt%2Flayout%2Ffront.asp

it's validating the templates i built, *not* the evolt.org site...

> All of the errors are for character entities, specifically the ‹
> characters in the page(s) tool at the bottom of the article list and
> the &$149; characters in the sidebar.  :(

now, the current site *does* throw these errors in the validator...

what bugs me is that a month (or so) ago i validated a bunch of my 
articles, and the evolt site (with my articles) validated... i don't 
recall having problems with character entities before...

and the validator UI looks different, which makes me think that 
perhaps the validator itself is different...

if so, we need to find out *why* entities are no longer valid, instead 
of just running around and changing code... otherwise, we;ll find 
ourselves implementing hacks (like images)...

*don't* do a damn thing to the code until we know *why* our 
entities no longer validate...

> Should we address this?

er...



From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 11:39:51 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 24 11:39:51 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <3BAF453D.4070105@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200109241639.f8OGdoZe031554@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Daniel J. Cody" 
>
> ya we should :)

no, we shouldn't, at least not until we know *why* elements that 
previously validated no longer do...

> josh - do you want to a.) make the changes yourself or b.)fire the
> changes that need to be made to thesite and someone who has access can
> make them to t.e.o ?

instead, can someone take a look at why the validation results are 
different now?

i have a meeting (for which i am late) that i need to get to, as well 
as a bunch of other stuff...

and since the site itself is running fine, we don't need to change 
this right now...

let's take some time and do it right -- no hacks...




From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Sep 24 12:18:06 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Sep 24 12:18:06 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <01c1451c$f0c7a0a0$e247149a@rudy>

> instead, can someone take a look at why 
> the validation results are different now?

perhaps it is the latest w3c validator update --

   "W3C HTML Validation Service Upgraded
   18 September 2001: W3C is pleased to announce an 
   upgrade to the W3C HTML Validation Service ....
   New features include XHTML 1.1 and XHTML Basic 1.0 
   support, experimental MathML 2.0 support, new functions 
   on the results page, and an option to override character encoding."
        http://www.w3.org/News/2001#item162

i'm not sure i can help analyze further

(i thought that using • is a no-no but aardie thinks it's okay, 
and has told me so at least twice...  and i'm still trying to figure out
why it's fine...)

you will also notice that the evolt site does *not* contain

  

which, perhaps, it now should?


rudester




From martin at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 12:40:19 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Mon Sep 24 12:40:19 2001
Subject: [thesite] RE: [admin] thelist down?
Message-ID: 

Daniel J. Cody wrote on 24/9/01 12:07 am

>I've updated the filters in MG so that this shouldn't(knock on wood) get 
>through anymore and set thelist back to un-moderated .. 

Thanks Dan - much appreciated.

>thanks to matt 
>again for taking quick action :)
 +1

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 12:48:58 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Sep 24 12:48:58 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <3BAF44D9.90606@starkmedia.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924104901.03b1d968@members.evolt.org>

djc,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 07:36 AM 9/24/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > It wouldn't be hard to give out like 10 of the templates
 > we came up with a couple months ago as choices for people
 > to use in the meantime. Using what rudy already has in
 > place in the DB, i wouldn't think this would be too hard..
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

actually, we don't even need the database.  all we have to do is drop the 
.css files in the root and then create a page with links for 
them.  clicking a link stores that path in a session variable which is then 
used in the  tag.  no db necessary at all.

thanks,

.jeff




From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Mon Sep 24 12:54:02 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Mon Sep 24 12:54:02 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924104901.03b1d968@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 24, .jeff had something to say about Re: [thesite] add: LOTTD

>djc,
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > At 07:36 AM 9/24/2001, you wrote:
> >
> > It wouldn't be hard to give out like 10 of the templates
> > we came up with a couple months ago as choices for people
> > to use in the meantime. Using what rudy already has in
> > place in the DB, i wouldn't think this would be too hard..
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
>actually, we don't even need the database.  all we have to do is drop the 
>.css files in the root and then create a page with links for 
>them.  clicking a link stores that path in a session variable which is then 
>used in the  tag.  no db necessary at all.

So, every time I log in, I gotta click that link?

ick.


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 13:36:18 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Sep 24 13:36:18 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924104901.03b1d968@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010924111828.03b5c7c0@members.evolt.org>

matt,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 10:54 AM 9/24/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > So, every time I log in, I gotta click that link?
 >
 > ick.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

agreed.  that's why we store the scheme_id in the database of the 
stylesheet they selected.  we can fabricate the ids without inputting all 
the data in the scheme tables.  we finish off the prototype by naming all 
the .css files with an id (1.css, 2.css, 3.css, etc.).  we'd also change 
isaac.css to 0.css as the session variable (and the scheme_id from the 
users table) would default to 0.

make sense?

.jeff






From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 14:12:57 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Sep 24 14:12:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
In-Reply-To: <01c1451c$f0c7a0a0$e247149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <200109241912.f8OJCvZe007347@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "rudy" 
>
> > instead, can someone take a look at why 
> > the validation results are different now?
> 
> perhaps it is the latest w3c validator update --
> 
>    "W3C HTML Validation Service Upgraded
>    18 September 2001: W3C is pleased to announce an 
>    upgrade to the W3C HTML Validation Service ....
>    New features include XHTML 1.1 and XHTML Basic 1.0 
>    support, experimental MathML 2.0 support, new functions 
>    on the results page, and an option to override character encoding."
>         http://www.w3.org/News/2001#item162
> 
> i'm not sure i can help analyze further

well, it says 'override character encoding'... do they mean ISO 
entities or character set?

> (i thought that using • is a no-no but aardie thinks it's okay,
> and has told me so at least twice...  and i'm still trying to figure
> out why it's fine...)

the context was • vs. ·... the first (&149;) has much 
wider support among older browsers, while the latter saw support 
develop at different rates for different characters in different 
browsers... the numeric value (vs. the named value) will always 
provide broader support (at least as long as there are older 
browsers, and some alternative ones as well)...

> you will also notice that the evolt site does *not* contain
> 
>              content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
> 
> which, perhaps, it now should?

wow, it should have *always* contained that... it was in the original 
template i provided...

musta fallen out along the way...

however, based on how this topic started (by validating the 
development template, not the real site, which has the ISO charset 
info), i'd bet that's not it...




From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Sep 24 15:20:32 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Sep 24 15:20:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] evolt validation
References: <01c1451c$f0c7a0a0$e247149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3BAF92B2.503@starkmedia.com>


rudy wrote:


> (i thought that using • is a no-no but aardie thinks it's okay, 
> and has told me so at least twice...  and i'm still trying to figure out
> why it's fine...)


the only thing the front page is puking on now is those bullet deal 
things(?)

on the article page( i used one from commentary so it didnt have any 
user added formatting), we're getting an error on the cube image align:

Error: value of attribute "ALIGN" cannot be "ABSMIDDLE"; must be one of 
"TOP", "MIDDLE", "BOTTOM", "LEFT", "RIGHT"

would using middle give the same effect filip/anyone?

that and the sidebar bullet things are the only warnings its giving


> you will also notice that the evolt site does *not* contain
> 
>              content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
 

i just added this to t.e.o

also,(and this may be dumb) is there a reason why were still using 4.0 
transitional? I though there was some problem with it, which is why 4.01 
came along so fast? again, excuse the lamess of that questions, this 
really isn't my area of l33tness ;)

.djc.





From filip at netdesign.se  Mon Sep 24 16:45:00 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Mon Sep 24 16:45:00 2001
Subject: [thesite] evolt validation
In-Reply-To: <3BAF92B2.503@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

Daniel J. Cody:
> on the article page( i used one from commentary so it didnt have any
> user added formatting), we're getting an error on the cube image align:
>
> Error: value of attribute "ALIGN" cannot be "ABSMIDDLE"; must be one of
> "TOP", "MIDDLE", "BOTTOM", "LEFT", "RIGHT"

Ah, that's right.. absmiddle never was part of the HTML spec. Bummer.

> would using middle give the same effect filip/anyone?

Nope, not the same. Actually, absmiddle was a rather ugly fix which would
break as soon as the text size changes. Using "middle" and padding the
bottom gifs with five or so pixels is probably the right way to go.

Like this:


This should look alright even if the text size changes. "Middle" aligns the
vertical center of the image to the baseline of the text, which is really
what absmiddle did (but only for this specific text size). Same thing, but
done the Right Way. Yay!

If it seems okay, I'll fix the gifs.

/filip
--
silent is the new loud.




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 21:30:57 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Mon Sep 24 21:30:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <03b701c144fa$2773d560$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: 


> -1 on adding more info to the Headlines notice that gets sent to thelist.

Why's that?

Don't you think it's pathetic that we have x000 members, and a popular
article is lucky to get 30-40 ratings?

Most headline emails won't have much content in them. It's hardly likely to
confuse anyone if we add a sentence or two encouraging people to participate
more. I thought that you were after more participation?



isaac




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 21:41:09 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Mon Sep 24 21:41:09 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <200109241250.GAA00849@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

> If someone can write the content for this, I'll insert it into the
> message.

Suggestions:

intro paragraph:

---
Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on the evolt.org site today contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else:
---



outro paragraph:

---
Of course, if you have some info to share, or questions to ask, authors
would love you to add a comment. Also, all authors appreciate feedback, so
be sure to have a look and leave your rating.

The evolt.org web site is a companion resource to thelist, with articles
written by the community members you often read and respect every day.

Happy reading!


evolt.org
---






From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 21:41:19 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 21:41:19 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: 
Message-ID: <016201c1456b$99215400$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 


| > -1 on adding more info to the Headlines notice that gets sent to
thelist.
|
| Why's that?
|
| Don't you think it's pathetic that we have x000 members, and a popular
| article is lucky to get 30-40 ratings?
|
| Most headline emails won't have much content in them. It's hardly likely
to
| confuse anyone if we add a sentence or two encouraging people to
participate
| more. I thought that you were after more participation?
|
|
|
| isaac
|
|
| _______________________________________________
| For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
|




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 21:45:30 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 21:45:30 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: 
Message-ID: <016701c1456c$2c49c0a0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Isaac,

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?


However, I don't feel real strongly against it .. and if you want to propose
some actual text for it .. I'll buy into it.


More participation would be great.  Encouraging folks to rate and comment
upon articles is a good thing.

But, I don't want it to be a hard-push.  I'd like to see what you have in
mind, before I make a final decision.

The headline notices should be encouraging and friendly... and an additional
"service" to our thelist members notifying them of new articles.  Let's not
get too carried away with this.

Please propose something .. I'll comment further at that time.

Thanks,

Michele


----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 10:30 PM
Subject: RE: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01


|
|
| > -1 on adding more info to the Headlines notice that gets sent to
thelist.
|
| Why's that?
|
| Don't you think it's pathetic that we have x000 members, and a popular
| article is lucky to get 30-40 ratings?
|
| Most headline emails won't have much content in them. It's hardly likely
to
| confuse anyone if we add a sentence or two encouraging people to
participate
| more. I thought that you were after more participation?





From isaac at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 21:50:21 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Mon Sep 24 21:50:21 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <016701c1456c$2c49c0a0$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: 


> Did you read the rest of what I wrote?

Yes, you -1'ed without waiting for actual text, then said that you'd buy
into any text I proposed. How does that make sense?

> But, I don't want it to be a hard-push.  I'd like to see what you have in
> mind, before I make a final decision.

Then why throw in a -1 before content is even proposed? Quite strange...

> The headline notices should be encouraging and friendly... and an
> additional

Yes, far more encouraging than "here's a date, and some urls" as existed
before I suggested extra text...

> Please propose something .. I'll comment further at that time.

I did that 5 minutes ago.


isaac




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 22:20:00 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 22:20:00 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: 
Message-ID: <017b01c14571$01ecc640$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

OK .. this is too wordy .. imho.  I'd prefer it to be short and simple ..
one liners.


Here's my suggestions:

Intro...

There's new content available on the evolt.org site:


Ending...

Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a comment
and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.


Happy reading!

evolt.org
-----

Michele



----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 


| Suggestions:
|
| intro paragraph:
|
| ---
| Hi evolters!
|
| We have some fresh content on the evolt.org site today contributed by our
| members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else:
| ---
|
|
|
| outro paragraph:
|
| ---
| Of course, if you have some info to share, or questions to ask, authors
| would love you to add a comment. Also, all authors appreciate feedback, so
| be sure to have a look and leave your rating.
|
| The evolt.org web site is a companion resource to thelist, with articles
| written by the community members you often read and respect every day.
|
| Happy reading!
|
|
| evolt.org
| ---





From isaac at members.evolt.org  Mon Sep 24 22:25:20 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Mon Sep 24 22:25:20 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <017b01c14571$01ecc640$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: 

> OK .. this is too wordy .. imho.  I'd prefer it to be short and simple ..
> one liners.

I consider your option to be vastly impersonal, bland and unencouraging. To
me, it has no feeling.


> There's new content available on the evolt.org site:
>
> Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can
> leave a comment
> and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.



isaac




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Sep 24 22:32:30 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Sep 24 22:32:30 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: 
Message-ID: <018301c14572$b61fa500$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Isaac,

Oh well, two opinions .... let everyone else chime in and a decision can be
made.

Michele

----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 
|
| I consider your option to be vastly impersonal, bland and unencouraging.
To
| me, it has no feeling.
|





From isaac at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 00:04:17 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Tue Sep 25 00:04:17 2001
Subject: [thesite] FW: [otter] Headlines from evolt.org for 24-SEP-01
Message-ID: 

oops, the downside of using  ...

two options: leave it out of the synopsis, or have a script to replace
  with a space.

latter is preferable. how easy is it to implement, dean?


> Over fifty thousand .info domains were activated over the weekend by
> Afilias Limited. Afilias has been allocated the responsibility of
> administering .info by ICANN and expects to add another 250 000
> names this week.
>
> Happy reading...
>
> from evolt.org



isaac




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Tue Sep 25 00:20:13 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Tue Sep 25 00:20:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] FW: [otter] Headlines from evolt.org for 24-SEP-01
References: 
Message-ID: <019501c14581$cd8dbb00$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Hmm.. never thought of that .. probably be other character entities that
need to be replaced too in the headline notices .. & " < >

others ?

Mich



----- Original Message -----
From: "isaac" 


|
| oops, the downside of using  ...
|
| two options: leave it out of the synopsis, or have a script to replace
|   with a space.
|
| latter is preferable. how easy is it to implement, dean?
|
|
| > Over fifty thousand .info domains were activated over the weekend by
| > Afilias Limited. Afilias has been allocated the responsibility of
| > administering .info by ICANN and expects to add another 250 000
| > names this week.





From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Tue Sep 25 05:57:45 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Tue Sep 25 05:57:45 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <018301c14572$b61fa500$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: 

On Sep 24, Michele Foster had something to say about Re: [thesite]...

>Isaac,
>
>Oh well, two opinions .... let everyone else chime in and a decision can be
>made.

Frankly, I don't give a rats arse.

Isaac, when I read yours, I didn't much like the ending where it said
something like "the author would like you to comment" and then another
sentence about ratings. IMO, it should be one sentence, mentioning the
different reasons for going to that url.

Michele, your opening was too short. I don't think it's too much of a
problem to have wordiness because after first view, the people seeing it
will only look at what has changed (the headlines themselves).

But, like I said. I don't give a rats arse.  =)

This is too trivial to be causing any tension or even civil, rationalized 
argument (like what's been goin on).

Ooops, I think rudy was supposed to say that stuff.



see ya,



--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com




From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Sep 25 07:08:08 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Sep 25 07:08:08 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <01c145ba$24ce0680$f54b149a@rudy>

>Ooops, I think rudy was supposed to say that stuff.

i missed all the fun because i have this curious habit
of requiring sleep each night

isaac, i liked your wording, but it was too, um, wordy --
at least for me

i'm the kinda guy that likes simplicity, and if it were my choice,
i'd say skip the extra words altogether, just show the article
titles and synopses

but i've been wrong before

(although, mind you, the last tiime was in 1978)

;o)




From gnarly at punkass.com  Tue Sep 25 07:42:42 2001
From: gnarly at punkass.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Tue Sep 25 07:42:42 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References:  <017b01c14571$01ecc640$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
Message-ID: <00d401c145bf$96b997a0$0100a8c0@uridium>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michele Foster" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01


> OK .. this is too wordy .. imho.  I'd prefer it to be short and simple ..
> one liners.


How about we go with a (slightly modified version of) Issac's opening:
---

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else:

---
Then the headlines go here, followed by Michele's ending:
---

Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a comment
and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

 Happy reading!

 evolt.org

---
Olly
- www.gnarly.f2s.com -





From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 07:51:36 2001
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Tue Sep 25 07:51:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 24-SEP-01
Message-ID: <200109251251.f8PCpZxF015780@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 24-SEP-01

News: Adobe Announces AlterCast (Author: isaac)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/16006/index.html

In a bag of new press releases, publishing software giant Adobe
Systems Inc. has announced a new dynamic imaging server application
-- Adobe AlterCast. Built on Photoshop and Illustrator code,
AlterCast has been primed to work within new and existing CMS
solutions.


News: Introducing .info: For Information Sites (Author: isaac)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/16005/index.html

Over fifty thousand .info domains were activated over the weekend by
Afilias Limited. Afilias has been allocated the responsibility of
administering .info by ICANN and expects to add another 250 000
names this week.



Happy reading...

from evolt.org




From dmah at shaw.ca  Tue Sep 25 07:54:30 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Tue Sep 25 07:54:30 2001
Subject: [thesite] FW: [otter] Headlines from evolt.org for 24-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <019501c14581$cd8dbb00$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca> from "Michele Foster" at Sep 25, 2001 01:20:33 AM
Message-ID: <200109251257.GAA00812@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Done.

Dean


Michele Foster writes:

> Hmm.. never thought of that .. probably be other character entities
> that need to be replaced too in the headline notices .. & "
> < >



From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 25 09:56:53 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 25 09:56:53 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
References: <01c145ba$24ce0680$f54b149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3BB0986C.7070300@starkmedia.com>


rudy wrote:


> isaac, i liked your wording, but it was too, um, wordy --
> at least for me
> 
> i'm the kinda guy that likes simplicity, and if it were my choice,
> i'd say skip the extra words altogether, just show the article
> titles and synopses


+1 - whats that saying abour a horse and water? it's too bad that more 
people don't rate articles, granted, but diluting a focused, 
informational message probably won't make any more people rate ..

.djc.






From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Sep 25 10:24:32 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Sep 25 10:24:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] tip harvester
Message-ID: <01c145d6$3c74f3e0$884b149a@rudy>

dean, the tip harvester is gonna be a smash hit

just wait, it'll be internet big time, like browsers.evolt.org


somewhere in your regexps or whatever you're doing,
the harvester managed munge a link in one of my tips

http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/detail/c/Week-of-Mon-20010917.
html/d/3533

thought you should know

maybe it's the question mark


rudy



p.s. i love the idea of making urls in the tips live links

you've done a lot of work on this


p.p.s.  i wish i had an administrative interface for ya, pal --

you could just add a new class for the tips tags, instead of having to use
font color=#000080













From dmah at shaw.ca  Tue Sep 25 11:33:28 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Tue Sep 25 11:33:28 2001
Subject: [thesite] tip harvester
In-Reply-To: <01c145d6$3c74f3e0$884b149a@rudy> from "rudy" at Sep 25, 2001 11:24:58 AM
Message-ID: <200109251636.KAA01484@alice.monkeyland.ca>

rudy writes:

> somewhere in your regexps or whatever you're doing,
> the harvester managed munge a link in one of my tips

Actually, the tip bodies are passed through Seth's ColoredCode.cfm
thingie.  I have no clue how that works....  I'll poke around in it
and try to figure out what's going on.


> p.p.s.  i wish i had an administrative interface for ya, pal --
> 
> you could just add a new class for the tips tags, instead of having
> to use font color=#000080

That's the beauty of stealing code, you can always blame the original
author for its shortcomings.  :)  That's all being handled in
ColoredCode.cfm.

Dean



From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Sep 25 11:38:22 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Sep 25 11:38:22 2001
Subject: [thesite] tip harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109251636.KAA01484@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

It's a custom tag I got out of the gallery from Allaire's site..  I can have a look at it if you'd like.. I noticed that it does that on quite a few URL's..

Seth

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dean Mah
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:37 AM
> To: thesite at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thesite] tip harvester
> 
> 
> rudy writes:
> 
> > somewhere in your regexps or whatever you're doing,
> > the harvester managed munge a link in one of my tips
> 
> Actually, the tip bodies are passed through Seth's ColoredCode.cfm
> thingie.  I have no clue how that works....  I'll poke around in it
> and try to figure out what's going on.
> 
> 
> > p.p.s.  i wish i had an administrative interface for ya, pal --
> > 
> > you could just add a new class for the tips tags, instead of having
> > to use font color=#000080
> 
> That's the beauty of stealing code, you can always blame the original
> author for its shortcomings.  :)  That's all being handled in
> ColoredCode.cfm.
> 
> Dean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
> 





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 12:10:33 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Sep 25 12:10:33 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <017b01c14571$01ecc640$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
References: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010925101029.03b6ae58@members.evolt.org>

michele,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 08:20 PM 9/24/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > OK .. this is too wordy .. imho.  I'd prefer it to be
 > short and simple .. one liners.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

-1

i *much* prefer isaac's approach.  i don't think we're doing nearly enough 
to encourage participation.  implementing something along the lines of what 
isaac is proposing is a step in the right direction.

thanks,

.jeff




From dmah at shaw.ca  Tue Sep 25 12:19:29 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Tue Sep 25 12:19:29 2001
Subject: [thesite] tip harvester
In-Reply-To:  from "Seth Bienek" at Sep 25, 2001 11:36:58 AM
Message-ID: <200109251722.LAA01796@alice.monkeyland.ca>

That'd be cool if you have some time.  I don't have a ton of time
right now and my CF is at a very basic level.

Thanks,
Dean


Seth Bienek writes:

> It's a custom tag I got out of the gallery from Allaire's site..  I
> can have a look at it if you'd like.. I noticed that it does that on
> quite a few URL's..



From morbus at disobey.com  Tue Sep 25 12:26:01 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Tue Sep 25 12:26:01 2001
Subject: [thesite] Ok! I need Naming Decisions...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010925101029.03b6ae58@members.evolt.org>
References: <017b01c14571$01ecc640$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>
 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010925132508.01722280@red.totalnetnh.net>

Ok. Long story short, some of you know me, some of you don't.
Shorter story longer: fave util bookmarksync.com will begin charging.
Pointless attempt to make short story: I'm making an open source version.
Ok, this is pathetic: DJC has offered evolt.org to be a central server.

So, I want your vote in two polls.

Poll #1. Which name do you like better?

   a) syncophant
   b) elephant sync

Vote on that first. Don't change your vote.
It's important you go with a gut reaction.

After done voting. Scroll down (man, this is like a uberFriendSpam, eh?)





.
.
.






Poll #2. Which name do you like better?

   a) syncophant
   b) syncasaurus

If possible, respond only to morbus at disobey.com so you won't influence the 
list. Political conjecture or alternatives to bookmarksync.com are not 
welcome at this instant.

Thanks!


--
Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus






From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Sep 25 13:31:13 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Sep 25 13:31:13 2001
Subject: [thesite] tip harvester
In-Reply-To: <200109251722.LAA01796@alice.monkeyland.ca>
Message-ID: 

Will look at it right now...

Seth

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thesite-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Dean Mah
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:23 PM
> To: thesite at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thesite] tip harvester
> 
> 
> That'd be cool if you have some time.  I don't have a ton of time
> right now and my CF is at a very basic level.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dean
> 
> 
> Seth Bienek writes:
> 
> > It's a custom tag I got out of the gallery from Allaire's site..  I
> > can have a look at it if you'd like.. I noticed that it does that on
> > quite a few URL's..
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
> 





From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Sep 25 13:45:19 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Sep 25 13:45:19 2001
Subject: [thesite] FTP Probs (was: tip harvester)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

OK, I normally consider myself to be pretty savvy about these things, but..

I get a "550" error when I try to GET (ftp) this file:
lists.evolt.org/leo_html/harvest/coloredcode.cfm

HOWEVER, I know the file is there because it is called by a couple of CF templates.

What gives?

Seth





From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 25 13:48:18 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 25 13:48:18 2001
Subject: [thesite] FTP Probs (was: tip harvester)
References: 
Message-ID: <3BB0CEB0.5080704@starkmedia.com>

hrmm.. looks like dean or matt sym-linked it recently.. editing 
/home/evolt/leo_html/thelist/archive/ColoredCode.cfm should get you there :)

Seth Bienek wrote:

> OK, I normally consider myself to be pretty savvy about these things, but..
> 
> I get a "550" error when I try to GET (ftp) this file:
> lists.evolt.org/leo_html/harvest/coloredcode.cfm
> 
> HOWEVER, I know the file is there because it is called by a couple of CF templates.
> 
> What gives?
> 
> Seth
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
> 





From dmah at shaw.ca  Tue Sep 25 15:03:36 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Tue Sep 25 15:03:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] FTP Probs (was: tip harvester)
In-Reply-To: <3BB0CEB0.5080704@starkmedia.com> from "Daniel J. Cody" at Sep 25, 2001 01:36:32 PM
Message-ID: <200109252006.OAA02372@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Yeah, I sym-linked it.  I didn't know how to use the CF template in
that directory but I didn't want to get them out of sync with each
other.

Dean


Daniel J. Cody writes:

> hrmm.. looks like dean or matt sym-linked it recently.. editing 
> /home/evolt/leo_html/thelist/archive/ColoredCode.cfm should get you there :)
> 
> Seth Bienek wrote:
> 
> > OK, I normally consider myself to be pretty savvy about these things, but..
> > 
> > I get a "550" error when I try to GET (ftp) this file:
> > lists.evolt.org/leo_html/harvest/coloredcode.cfm
> > 
> > HOWEVER, I know the file is there because it is called by a couple
> > of CF templates.
> > 
> > What gives?
> > 
> > Seth



From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Sep 25 15:41:23 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Sep 25 15:41:23 2001
Subject: [thesite] FTP Probs (was: tip harvester)
In-Reply-To: <3BB0CEB0.5080704@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

Ah.. I couldn't see that with my FTP client..  How do you check a sym-link to see where it points?

Also, I fixed the regexp to end url's if it finds a space or closing angle.. 

I want to fix it to correct wrapped URL's as well, and I figured while I'm in there I would check with y'all and see if you want the href's formatted in a certain way?  Should they be classed?  

And, the custom tag uses  to color the elements that it color codes.  These should be classed as well, eh?  If someone wants to give me classnames for the following, I can put those into the custom tag..

The color in the parenthesis is the current color the  tag sets. They are generally the same colors CF Studio (aka Homesite) use AFAIK.

HTML Tags (blue - 000080)
Table tags (teal - 008080)
Form (orange - FF8000)
A (green - 'green')
Image & Style (purple - 'purple')
CF and Script (maroon - 'maroon')
Comments (gray - 'gray')

(I didn't write the original tag, BTW). :)

Regards,

Seth





From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Sep 25 16:01:23 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Sep 25 16:01:23 2001
Subject: [thesite] hasta
Message-ID: <3BB0EDE4.2080009@starkmedia.com>

or however you say it, even after 2 weeks of the Spanish channel i dont 
have it down. :)

At any rate, I'm heading to the island(pictures on my weblog) for a week 
of beer, sun, food, fun, relaxation - sans computers, phones, email, and 
anything more complicated than what i'll be using to open my beer.

Be back in a 8 - 10 days, unless i'm not. matt and dean have all the 
behind the scenes stuff covered(thanks again guys) mich and matt also 
have access to my weblog to let m.e.o accounts know if anything pops up.

?el djc?




From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 16:25:36 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Sep 25 16:25:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <03cbc4726211991PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Michele Foster wrote on 24/9/01 2:09 pm

>-1 on adding more info to the Headlines notice that gets sent to thelist.
>However, I don't feel real strongly against it .. and if you want to propose
>some actual text for it .. I'll buy into it.

I've got examples of good ways to do this on my work machine

I'll send 'em on tomorrow.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 16:25:42 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Sep 25 16:25:42 2001
Subject: [thesite] add: LOTTD
Message-ID: <03a7c4826211991PCOW035M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Daniel J. Cody wrote on 24/9/01 3:36 pm

>> Yeah, it's all the editing/creation/management tools that would have to be
>> built that's the time-consuming part.
>
>
>+1
>
>It wouldn't be hard to give out like 10 of the templates we came up with 
>a couple months ago as choices for people to use in the meantime. Using 
>what rudy already has in place in the DB, i wouldn't think this would be 
>too hard..

+1

Nice compromise.

Now, decision-making as to which 10...

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 16:27:43 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Sep 25 16:27:43 2001
Subject: [thesite] Fw: [the***] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <03e525428211991PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Michele Foster wrote on 24/9/01 3:43 pm

>Looks good .. we'll see how many extra hits those articles get from thelist

The 'headline' in the URL should make working that out easy...

Cheers
Martin

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Headlines" 
>
>
>| evolt.org headlines for 04-SEP-01
>|
>| News: .au Redelegated Despite Opposition (Author: isaac)
>| http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/1/15432/index.html
>|
>| Australian IT is reporting that despite opposition from the original
>| .AU delegate, Robert Elz, and current .com.au registrar, Melbourne
>| IT, IANA has redelegated .AU authority to auDA.


_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 16:32:04 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Sep 25 16:32:04 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <041a71233211991PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

isaac wrote on 25/9/01 4:40 am

>> If someone can write the content for this, I'll insert it into the
>> message.
>
>Suggestions:
>
>intro paragraph:
>
>---
>Hi evolters!
>
>We have some fresh content on the evolt.org site today contributed by our
>members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone else:
>---
>
>
>
>outro paragraph:
>
>---
>Of course, if you have some info to share, or questions to ask, authors
>would love you to add a comment. Also, all authors appreciate feedback, so
>be sure to have a look and leave your rating.
>
>The evolt.org web site is a companion resource to thelist, with articles
>written by the community members you often read and respect every day.
>
>Happy reading!
>
>
>evolt.org
>---

yeah, I like these.

They're short enought to be skimmable once you've seen it a few times,
but long enough to convey the message.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From martin at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 16:39:35 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Tue Sep 25 16:39:35 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
Message-ID: <04b9c4640211991PCOW029M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Martin wrote on 25/9/01 10:32 pm

>>Of course, if you have some info to share, or questions to ask, authors
>>would love you to add a comment. Also, all authors appreciate feedback, so
>>be sure to have a look and leave your rating.

Good (sorry, effective) cos it tells people what to do. People don't
do stuff like this until you make it really, really, *really* clear
that they can, and it would be A Good Thing if they did it.

You really do need to tell/ask them to do what you want them to do,
otherwise they won't get that they can do it at all, and the benefits
of doing it need to be clear, otherwise they won't get that they should.

(background - I've done quite a lot of copy writing for Direct Marketing,
for non-profits and for commercial enterprises, and evaluated what
works and what doesn't in pretty much every case)

>>The evolt.org web site is a companion resource to thelist, with articles
>>written by the community members you often read and respect every day.

Nice info, with a lovely background cue that the people who write this
stuff know their shit.

Like I said, these are pretty damn good.

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Tue Sep 25 19:11:00 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Tue Sep 25 19:11:00 2001
Subject: [thesite] Headlines from evolt.org for 04-SEP-01
In-Reply-To: <00d401c145bf$96b997a0$0100a8c0@uridium>
Message-ID: 


> How about we go with a (slightly modified version of) Issac's opening:
> Then the headlines go here, followed by Michele's ending:

I'm happy to go with that as a compromise.


isaac



From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 25 22:44:58 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Sep 25 22:44:58 2001
Subject: [thesite] notification of comments
Message-ID: <3BB1170C.25823.1AB50AF2@localhost>

not getting email notification when people comment on my 
articles...

i know it got fixed a couple months ago...




From morbus at disobey.com  Wed Sep 26 10:23:33 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed Sep 26 10:23:33 2001
Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In Sendmail"...
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010926112503.01ab7aa0@mail.totalnetnh.net>

Request for comment. Would the article synopsis below be "interesting" 
enough for posting to evolt.org, even though it's not strictly related to 
web development?

Synopsis:

  With the recent demise of ORBS, and the sudden insane charging
  of MAPS, ISPs everywhere are limping along with their spam
  filters, either using ORB-replacements that cause customer
  complaints, or inadequate manual filtering based on spam
  already received. This article will walk you through how
  I reconfigured sendmail to satisfy spam filtering for a
  small ISP of about 1500 addresses.


--
Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus






From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Sep 26 10:37:51 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Sep 26 10:37:51 2001
Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In Sendmail"...
Message-ID: 

I say yes, though in the synopsis I'd define ORBS and MAPS....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morbus Iff [mailto:morbus at disobey.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:28 AM
> To: thesite at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In
> Sendmail"...
> 
> 
> Request for comment. Would the article synopsis below be 
> "interesting" 
> enough for posting to evolt.org, even though it's not 
> strictly related to 
> web development?
> 
> Synopsis:
> 
>   With the recent demise of ORBS, and the sudden insane charging
>   of MAPS, ISPs everywhere are limping along with their spam
>   filters, either using ORB-replacements that cause customer
>   complaints, or inadequate manual filtering based on spam
>   already received. This article will walk you through how
>   I reconfigured sendmail to satisfy spam filtering for a
>   small ISP of about 1500 addresses.
> 
> 
> --
> Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
> http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
> please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
> icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
> 



From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Wed Sep 26 10:43:28 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Wed Sep 26 10:43:28 2001
Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In Sendmail"...
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010926112503.01ab7aa0@mail.totalnetnh.net>
Message-ID: <003e01c146a2$0c49e460$a300a8c0@aci.on.ca>

Sounds good to me .. not sure what category it would go into though.  

Mich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morbus Iff" 

|   With the recent demise of ORBS, and the sudden insane charging
|   of MAPS, ISPs everywhere are limping along with their spam
|   filters, either using ORB-replacements that cause customer
|   complaints, or inadequate manual filtering based on spam
|   already received. This article will walk you through how
|   I reconfigured sendmail to satisfy spam filtering for a
|   small ISP of about 1500 addresses.





From morbus at disobey.com  Wed Sep 26 10:47:32 2001
From: morbus at disobey.com (Morbus Iff)
Date: Wed Sep 26 10:47:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In
  Sendmail"...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010926114706.01990d80@red.totalnetnh.net>

 >> Synopsis:
 >>
 >>   With the recent demise of ORBS, and the sudden insane charging
 >>   of MAPS, ISPs everywhere are limping along with their spam
 >>   filters, either using ORB-replacements that cause customer
 >>   complaints, or inadequate manual filtering based on spam
 >>   already received. This article will walk you through how
 >>   I reconfigured sendmail to satisfy spam filtering for a
 >>   small ISP of about 1500 addresses.
 >>
 >I say yes, though in the synopsis I'd define ORBS and MAPS....

Clarification:

  ORBS is the Open Relay Blackhole List. Long story short,
  misconfigured mail servers can allow any user to send out
  mail through them. Spammers often hunt for these servers
  - they allow unrestricted access to send spam messages.
  These are called "open relays" because they allow anyone
  to openly relay mail. The most famous one, called ORBS,
  was recently shut down for legal reason.

  MAPS, is the Mail Abuse Prevention System (or something
  similar - too lazy to check right now). It offered various
  services that would block known open relays, known dialup
  ports that have been used for spam and so on. Recently,
  they've turned to a insanely-overpriced pay system.

  A good portion of ISPs "subscribed" to the above lists -
  any email that was sent to the ISPs servers were checked
  against the entries in MAPS or ORBS. If they were in either
  list, the email was from a known spammer or misconfigured
  host, and was thus denied. These lists caught an awful lot
  of spam before ever hitting the customer.

  With the death of them, spam is flowing freely again.

Better?


--
Morbus Iff ( i am your scary godmother )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus






From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Sep 26 10:49:54 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Sep 26 10:49:54 2001
Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In Sendmail"...
Message-ID: 

>   With the death of them, spam is flowing freely again.
> 
> Better?


 yeah. I thought both were acronyms =)

I think it would be an incredible article to have, and Michele, I'd put
it in backend....

sgd



From martin at members.evolt.org  Wed Sep 26 13:36:41 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Wed Sep 26 13:36:41 2001
Subject: [thesite] RFC: Article: "ReAttacking the Spam Issue In Sendmail"...
Message-ID: <0c97d1132181a91PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Scott Dexter wrote on 26/9/01 4:38 pm

>I say yes, though in the synopsis I'd define ORBS and MAPS....

+1 - a precis of recent developments would be useful too

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From scott at mettro.com.au  Thu Sep 27 00:03:57 2001
From: scott at mettro.com.au (Scott Barnes)
Date: Thu Sep 27 00:03:57 2001
Subject: [thesite] CMS evolttest.sql in SQL 7.0 or 2000 format???
In-Reply-To: <20010927045430.8929ABBB@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: 

Does anyone have the evolt.org CMS Database in SQL 7.0 or 2000 format (even
Access will do).

Regards,
Scott Barnes.





From mwarden at mattwarden.com  Thu Sep 27 05:49:21 2001
From: mwarden at mattwarden.com (Warden, Matt)
Date: Thu Sep 27 05:49:21 2001
Subject: [thesite] CMS evolttest.sql in SQL 7.0 or 2000 format???
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

No, the scripts are for Oracle. However, it shouldn't be too hard to
convert them. Run the scripts, research and change anything that errors or
just doesn't seem right.

Now, the sql within the evolt code itself is highly tuned for Oracle, and
there's even a good chance we used some propriatery Oracle stuff in our
"tune everything we possibly can" stage.

But, again, should be relatively easy to port to MSSQL7

if you need help, you can ask that too. i probably can't be of any help,
but others might.

thanks,


--
mattwarden
mattwarden.com

On Sep 27, Scott Barnes had something to say about [thesite] CMS...

>Does anyone have the evolt.org CMS Database in SQL 7.0 or 2000 format (even
>Access will do).
>
>Regards,
>Scott Barnes.




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Sep 27 06:00:44 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Sep 27 06:00:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] CMS evolttest.sql in SQL 7.0 or 2000 format???
Message-ID: <01c14743$d16c4840$1b46149a@rudy>

> there's even a good chance we used 
> some propriatery Oracle stuff 

yes

for one thing, we use one oracle sequence to generate
primary keys for all tables, whereas sql/server would use 
separate identity fields in every table

then there's the date fields, and the TO_DATE function...


holler if you have any questions


(matt, don't you ever sleep?)



rudy




From dmah at shaw.ca  Thu Sep 27 11:18:11 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Thu Sep 27 11:18:11 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
Message-ID: <200109271621.KAA01565@alice.monkeyland.ca>

Just realized that the previous and next tip do not work when sorting
on the various fields.

When you are viewing the tip detail, the prev and next links link to
the tip_id-1 and tip_id+1, respectively.  This doesn't make sense if
the tips are not sorted by date.

So I need the logical prev and next tip_id as generated by the sort.
Any thoughts?

I could re-run the query in the tip detail template or I could pass
the ordered list in from the tip summary template.  Which is the best
way?  Is there a different way?  How can I pass it the ordered
tip_id's to the tip detail template efficiently (the URL passes all of
the parameters to the tip detail template)?

Thanks,
Dean



From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Sep 27 11:44:51 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Sep 27 11:44:51 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
Message-ID: <01c14773$e396b340$1b46149a@rudy>

> So I need the logical prev and next tip_id as generated by the sort.
> Any thoughts?

when you go to retrieve the tip details from the database, 
use subselects to get them 

the subselects look complicated, but they are simple and 
more or less efficient

apologies if the table/column names are wrong, here's an example

it is generalized to accept any sort sequence, but relies on an
ascending primary key sequence, in this case tip_id, to provide 
the subsequence (i.e. what to do if the same author has multiple tips)

   set seqfield="author"

   select tipdetails
    ,  ( select tip_id from tiptable
           where tip_month = #this_month#
             and tip_id =
                 ( select MAX(tip_id) from tiptable
                     where tip_month = #this_month#
                         and ( tip_#seqfield# < OUTER.tip_#seqfield#
                              or tip_#seqfield# = OUTER.tip_#seqfield#
                                          and tip_id < OUTER.tip_id ) 
                 )  ) as prev_id
    ,  ( select tip_id from tiptable
           where tip_month = #this_month#
             and tip_id =
                 ( select MIN(tip_id) from tiptable
                     where tip_month = #this_month#
                         and ( tip_#seqfield# > OUTER.tip_#seqfield#
                              or tip_#seqfield# = OUTER.tip_#seqfield#
                                          and tip_id > OUTER.tip_id ) 
                 )  ) as next_id
      from tiptable OUTER
         where tip_id = #thistip#


>... or I could pass the ordered list in from the tip summary template.  

can you describe how "pass in" would work?

where's the ordered list stored?  a cf array?

this is actually the most efficient way

i just showed you the sql in case you ever find the need to do prev/next 
links in some other application...

;o)


rudenstein







From joshua at alphashop.com  Thu Sep 27 12:31:08 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Thu Sep 27 12:31:08 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
References: <01c14773$e396b340$1b46149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <056c01c1477b$584dd590$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Hey rudemeister, got a toughy fer ya if yer up fer it.

Let's say you've got a many-to-many relationship between items and
categories with a third table stuck in the middle to create the
associations.  Categories have a primary key id, and items have a primary
key id.  But, let's say I want to select the next and previous item from
within the same category based on a field other than the primary key, such
as the date it was created.

There are two flavors to this:

1.  When I get to the end or beginning of a category, I want to display the
item in the adjacent category (determined by some other arbitrary sort field
having to do with the order of the categories)

2.  When I get to the end or beginning of a category, I want to return "end
of category..." in some form or fashion.

Can this be done in a single query?

-joshua





From dmah at shaw.ca  Thu Sep 27 12:57:32 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Thu Sep 27 12:57:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
In-Reply-To: <01c14773$e396b340$1b46149a@rudy> from "rudy" at Sep 27, 2001 12:46:00 PM
Message-ID: <200109271801.MAA01835@alice.monkeyland.ca>

rudy writes:

> when you go to retrieve the tip details from the database, use
> subselects to get them

Interesting.  Still running a query against the database though...
But I'll trust you when you say it's efficient.  :)


> >... or I could pass the ordered list in from the tip summary template.  
> 
> can you describe how "pass in" would work?
> 
> where's the ordered list stored?  a cf array?

That's kind of the question I had.  I'm not a CF person so I don't
know what methods are available to pass this data around and what is
the most efficient way.  My initial thought is just to pass it all as
part of the URL since the links from the summary to the detail pass
all of the parameters.  Something like:

   tip_detail.cfm?tip_id=3343&tip_list=3,3343,1,4423,410

and parse that in the CF template to get 3 and 1 for the prev and next
tip_id, respectively.  Of course, the URL may get too long and break
the whole thing.

Dean




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Sep 27 14:48:34 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Sep 27 14:48:34 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
Message-ID: <01c1478d$8d7b1860$e448149a@rudy>

>Interesting.  Still running a query against the database though...

what do you mean "still" running?  

when you run the query to get the tip details, i'm suggesting just 
use that query to get the prev/next for display under that tip's details

>But I'll trust you when you say it's efficient.  :)

efficient is relative

i always pass the buck on that kinda concern to the dba anyway...    ;o)

> I'm not a CF person so I don't know what methods are
> available to pass this data around and what is the most efficient way.  

fair enough

i'd be inclined to use a cached query (shhhh, we might wake jeff up)

but think about how you produced the summary list 

you ran a query for that month, right?

   [  or else i guess i don't know where 
      your data is coming from -- i just assumed 
      that everything is in the tips table(s)...      ]

and when you click on one of those column headings, 
this attaches a query string to the url, orderby=xxxxx

i'm assuming this simply re-runs the query that produces the
summary list, just using a different order by clause


> My initial thought is just to pass it all as part of the URL 
> since the links from the summary to the detail pass
> all of the parameters. Something like:
>
>   tip_detail.cfm?tip_id=3343&tip_list=3,3343,1,4423,410
>
> and parse that in the CF template to get 3 and 1 for the prev and next
> tip_id, respectively.  Of course, the URL may get too long and break
> the whole thing.

pass the entire summary list?  yeah, you're right, it's too big

pass only prev/next?  that won't work, cause after the first page,
how do you know what the next tip id is?

(b.t.w. what's the 410 for?)

thus, your quest for "passing" the entire summary list

you could do it if they were stored in some persistent way in cold fusion

application session variable?   cached query?

we've had this discussion before, it's one of my favourite threads [but 
maybe only because it's so easy for me to forget things at my age...]

however, setting up application variables or a cached query is 
probably more code than you want to get involved with right now


my suggestion lets you go from detail page to detail page following
prev and next links without "passing" any of them


but there is yet more complexity in a proper prev/next implementation

you also need to know when you are sitting on the first or the last,
so that you can "gray out" those links

if you store the list in memory, you would need a way to
traverse it in one of three sequences -- because obviously
you do not want everybody who hits that page to force a re-sort
of application variables....  as i understand it, you could do a 
query of a query in cf 5 around this problem, but that seems
way too complex for me

the additional first/last complexity in using sql is that
when you are sitting on the first or last, you will have nulls in those
columns...  i think, i mean, if i coded them right, i just did
them off the top of my head...



please let me know if this is not clear

i can barely understand it myself


rudemeister





From dmah at shaw.ca  Thu Sep 27 15:35:08 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Thu Sep 27 15:35:08 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
In-Reply-To: <01c1478d$8d7b1860$e448149a@rudy> from "rudy" at Sep 27, 2001 03:49:43 PM
Message-ID: <200109272038.OAA02335@alice.monkeyland.ca>

rudy writes:

> >Interesting.  Still running a query against the database though...
> 
> what do you mean "still" running?  
> 
> when you run the query to get the tip details, i'm suggesting just 
> use that query to get the prev/next for display under that tip's details

Yeah.  What I meant is that you are still doing extra select
statements to get the data.  Just instead of grabbing the entire
ordered list, you are grabbing the next and prev tip_id's.


> but think about how you produced the summary list 
> 
> you ran a query for that month, right?
>
>    [  or else i guess i don't know where 
>       your data is coming from -- i just assumed 
>       that everything is in the tips table(s)...      ]

Actually, no.  I'm getting tips for the past week and joining against
the users table and the tip_types table.  Just wait when we allow tips
to be of multiple type!

Here's the query:

  SELECT tip_id, tip_date, tip_type_name, author_id, who,
         attrib_type, attrib_author
    FROM thetips, users, tip_types
   WHERE tip_date BETWEEN to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYY-MM-DD') AND
                          to_date('#enddate#', 'YYYY-MM-DD')
     AND author_id = userid (+)
     AND thetips.tip_type_id = tip_types.tip_type_id (+)
ORDER BY #orderby# #orderdir#


> and when you click on one of those column headings, 
> this attaches a query string to the url, orderby=xxxxx
> 
> i'm assuming this simply re-runs the query that produces the
> summary list, just using a different order by clause

Yes.  It also sorts ASC or DESC based on which way you sorted on the
field previously.  (I needed to add those little up/down arrow icons
to make that more obvious.)


> >   tip_detail.cfm?tip_id=3343&tip_list=3,3343,1,4423,410
>
> pass only prev/next?  that won't work, cause after the first page,
> how do you know what the next tip id is?

[ re-ordered context ]

> thus, your quest for "passing" the entire summary list

Exactly.


> (b.t.w. what's the 410 for?)

Simply random number used for the example.  It would represent another
tip_id in the list.  Assume a potentially sparse table where not all
tip_id's refer to an actual tip, e.g., tip was deleted after it was
loaded.


> you could do it if they were stored in some persistent way in cold fusion
> 
> application session variable?   cached query?

Ummmm... those are beyond me at the moment.  I've only ever read
Seth's code and I don't think that he used app. sess. var. or cached
queries.


> we've had this discussion before, it's one of my favourite threads
> [but maybe only because it's so easy for me to forget things at my
> age...]

Don't get me started on that.... Damn, forgot the witty aphorism that
I was going write here.


> my suggestion lets you go from detail page to detail page following
> prev and next links without "passing" any of them

Can you re-write your query based on the above query, i.e., taking the
joins into account?


> you also need to know when you are sitting on the first or the last,
> so that you can "gray out" those links

That's fine.  The query comes back with null values or at least ""
that I check to remove the links as appropriate.  Unless you're
talking about some kind of cached query here.  In which case, I
gotcha.


Dean



From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Sep 27 15:47:32 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Sep 27 15:47:32 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
Message-ID: <01c14795$c598a8e0$e448149a@rudy>

>Yeah.  What I meant is that you are still doing extra select
>statements to get the data.  Just instead of grabbing the entire
>ordered list, you are grabbing the next and prev tip_id's.

well, yes, except you wouldn't be getting "the entire ordered list"
from the database at the same time as the tip details for the one
tip you want to display

>Actually, no.  I'm getting tips for the past week and joining against
>the users table and the tip_types table.  

okay, not month but week -- still, that's what i've been calling
the "tip details" query (the outer joins are irrelevant)

>  SELECT tip_id, tip_date, tip_type_name, author_id, who,
>         attrib_type, attrib_author
>    FROM thetips, users, tip_types
>   WHERE tip_date BETWEEN to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYY-MM-DD') AND
>                          to_date('#enddate#', 'YYYY-MM-DD')
>     AND author_id = userid (+)
>     AND thetips.tip_type_id = tip_types.tip_type_id (+)
>ORDER BY #orderby# #orderdir#

that there is the summary query

>Yes.  It also sorts ASC or DESC based on which way you sorted on the
>field previously.  (I needed to add those little up/down arrow icons
>to make that more obvious.)

i missed that

that's pretty cool

>> (b.t.w. what's the 410 for?)
>
>Simply random number used for the example.  It would represent another
>tip_id in the list.  Assume a potentially sparse table where not all
>tip_id's refer to an actual tip, e.g., tip was deleted after it was
>loaded.

nah, you don't need that

your code should be able to handle a week with no tips at all

>> application session variable?   cached query?
>
>Ummmm... those are beyond me at the moment. 

my point exactly


>Can you re-write your query based on the above query, i.e., taking the
>joins into account?

no, that query stays absolutely the same

however you are picking up the prev/next when somebody clicks
on an individual tip, just keep doing that

show me the detiul query, that's where the subqueries go


rudelicious




From dmah at shaw.ca  Thu Sep 27 16:03:36 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Thu Sep 27 16:03:36 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
In-Reply-To: <01c14795$c598a8e0$e448149a@rudy> from "rudy" at Sep 27, 2001 04:48:33 PM
Message-ID: <200109272107.PAA02447@alice.monkeyland.ca>

rudy writes:

> well, yes, except you wouldn't be getting "the entire ordered list"
> from the database at the same time as the tip details for the one
> tip you want to display

Right.


> okay, not month but week -- still, that's what i've been calling the
> "tip details" query (the outer joins are irrelevant)

Except I am sorting on those fields.  It would probably make more
sense if I expanded the #orderby# variable.  It can be one of:
tip_date, upper(attrib_author), or tip_type_name.

Originally, the "Tip Name" column was showing the canonical tip name
from the tip_types table if provided and the attrib_tip if not.  As
well, the "Author" column was showing the matched member field from
the users table if found or the attrib_author if not.  Not sure how
you would work that into the query.


> nah, you don't need that
> 
> your code should be able to handle a week with no tips at all

Yeah, it does.  I was just trying to explain how you would get sparse
numbering like I used in the example.  If there are no tips in a week,
the link shouldn't even appear to display the summary.


> no, that query stays absolutely the same
> 
> however you are picking up the prev/next when somebody clicks
> on an individual tip, just keep doing that
> 
> show me the detiul query, that's where the subqueries go

This is what I tried:

  SELECT tip_id, messageid, tip_date, tip_type_name, author_id, who,
         attrib_type, attrib_author, tip_body
         (SELECT tip_id
            FROM thetips inner
           WHERE tip_date BETWEEN to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') AND
                                  to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') + 7
             AND tip_id = (SELECT max(tip_id)
                             FROM thetips
                            WHERE tip_date BETWEEN
                                  to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') AND
                                  to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') + 7
                              AND (#seqfield# < outer.#seqfield#
                                OR #seqfield# = outer.#seqfield#
                               AND tip_id < outer.tip_id)
                          )
         ) AS prev_id,
         (SELECT tip_id
            FROM thetips inner
           WHERE tip_date BETWEEN to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') AND
                                  to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') + 7
             AND tip_id = (SELECT min(tip_id)
                             FROM thetips
                            WHERE tip_date BETWEEN
                                  to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') AND
                                  to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') + 7
                              AND (#seqfield# > outer.#seqfield#
                                OR #seqfield# = outer.#seqfield#
                               AND tip_id > outer.tip_id)
                          )
         ) AS next_id
    FROM thetips outer, users u, tip_types tt
   WHERE tip_id = #url.d#
     AND author_id = userid (+)
     AND outer.tip_type_id = tt.tip_type_id (+)

If this query works, I will need to add some CF code to massage the
#seqfield# before using it so that I can refer to the tip_types table
and the upper function call.

Dean




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Sep 27 16:44:07 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Sep 27 16:44:07 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
Message-ID: <01c1479d$abdcdae0$e448149a@rudy>

doh!

let's see if it works when the unnecessary sub-sub-query is collapsed

  SELECT tip_id, messageid, tip_date, tip_type_name, author_id, who,
         attrib_type, attrib_author, tip_body
       , (SELECT max(tip_id)
            FROM thetips
           WHERE tip_date BETWEEN to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD')
                              AND to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') + 7
             AND (#seqfield# < outer.#seqfield#
               OR #seqfield# = outer.#seqfield#
                  AND tip_id < outer.tip_id)
         ) AS prev_id
       , (SELECT min(tip_id)
            FROM thetips
           WHERE tip_date BETWEEN to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD')
                              AND to_date('#startdate#', 'YYYYMMDD') + 7
             AND (#seqfield# > outer.#seqfield#
               OR #seqfield# = outer.#seqfield#
                  AND tip_id > outer.tip_id)
         ) AS next_id
    FROM thetips outer, users u, tip_types tt
   WHERE tip_id = #url.d#
     AND author_id = userid (+)
     AND outer.tip_type_id = tt.tip_type_id (+)

> If this query works, I will need to add some CF code to massage
> the #seqfield# before using it so that I can refer to the tip_types table
> and the upper function call.

i can see how the function call is messed up by the table name qualifier

we're fux0red on both the tip type and author name, though, without doing
a join inside each of the subselects...

... but it would be only one join, not two like the outer query


shit, let me think about it


ooops, pardon me, this is a public list

i meant to say "shoot, let me think about it"


we also have to handle tips that don't have a type or author, right?


gotta go make dinner for the kids

back tonight, perhaps late










From dmah at shaw.ca  Thu Sep 27 17:06:40 2001
From: dmah at shaw.ca (Dean Mah)
Date: Thu Sep 27 17:06:40 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
In-Reply-To: <01c1479d$abdcdae0$e448149a@rudy> from "rudy" at Sep 27, 2001 05:45:06 PM
Message-ID: <200109272210.QAA02634@alice.monkeyland.ca>

rudy writes:

> we're fux0red on both the tip type and author name, though,

Okay, that's what I thought.


> without doing a join inside each of the subselects...
> ... but it would be only one join, not two like the outer query
> shoot, let me think about it

Umm, yeah, okay.  I'm glad you're thinking about this.  I would've
programmed the brute force method by now.


> we also have to handle tips that don't have a type or author, right?

Yes and no.  Most tips have authors.  There's only a few that don't.
Which is because the the script that parses thelist messages can't
pull a hdr_fromname if the person's e-mail client hasn't set it.  I
could force it to use the hdr_fromemail as the name in that case if it
makes it easier.

Tips that don't have a type should be listed as "Unclassified".


> gotta go make dinner for the kids
> 
> back tonight, perhaps late

Coolio.  Don't stress about it too much.  It's not a priority.  No one
even noticed it except me.  :)

Dean




From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Sep 28 11:46:29 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Sep 28 11:46:29 2001
Subject: [thesite] Tip Harvest: Prev / Next Tip
Message-ID: <01c1483d$4860e880$f648149a@rudy>

hi joshua

>Let's say you've got a many-to-many relationship between items and
>categories with a third table stuck in the middle to create the
>associations.  Categories have a primary key id, and items have a primary
>key id.  But, let's say I want to select the next and previous item from
>within the same category based on a field other than the primary key, such
>as the date it was created.

specifically, prev/next item based on item create date within
the same category

cries out for a working example...


>1.  When I get to the end or beginning of a category, I want to display
> theitem in the adjacent category (determined by some other arbitrary
> sort field having to do with the order of the categories)

i actually tried this once, it's uuuuuuuuugly

considering how the user might be confused by suddenly popping into the
adjacent category by following "next" links within a category, and the
extra user-interface explanation you might have to add to the link in that
case, i would just show "end of category" marker, or simply gray out the
"next" link, and let the user go "up" a level to choose the next category
manually...

>2.  When I get to the end or beginning of a category, I want to return
> "end of category..." in some form or fashion.
>
> Can this be done in a single query?

yeah, same basic approach i outlined to dean last night, subselects
 which should return a null if there isn't a prev/next item


cries out for a working example...

unfortunatley, not enough hours in the day

have to add it to the pile of things to do...

... somewhere within which is my promise to
build a data model for evolt's database, which
i'm feeling really guilty about now...


rudy







From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 28 17:27:19 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 28 17:27:19 2001
Subject: [thesite] Character Entity Validation
References: <200109241912.f8OJCvZe007347@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <079001c1486d$e7aacc50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

Has this issue been resolved.

-joshua




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Sep 28 17:39:02 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Sep 28 17:39:02 2001
Subject: [thesite] Character Entity Validation
In-Reply-To: <079001c1486d$e7aacc50$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>
References: <200109241912.f8OJCvZe007347@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010928154015.03b25a30@members.evolt.org>

joshua,

 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
 > At 03:35 PM 9/28/2001, you wrote:
 >
 > Has this issue been resolved.
 ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

can you be more specific about the problem?

thanks,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/




From joshua at alphashop.com  Fri Sep 28 18:19:44 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri Sep 28 18:19:44 2001
Subject: [thesite] Character Entity Validation
References: <200109241912.f8OJCvZe007347@leo.evolt.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20010928154015.03b25a30@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <081a01c14875$3a6fe630$a600a8c0@mrtnz1.ga.home.com>

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.evolt.org&charset=%28detect+automatica
lly%29&doctype=Inline

There was a call to find out *why* the page is failing when it did not
before.  Aardvark made a plea for someone to look up why it's failing now.
Looks like no one has.

-joshua

----- Original Message -----
From: ".jeff" 
Subject: Re: [thesite] Character Entity Validation


: joshua,
:
:  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
:  > At 03:35 PM 9/28/2001, you wrote:
:  >
:  > Has this issue been resolved.
:  ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
:
: can you be more specific about the problem?