From richard.bennett at skynet.be Thu Feb 6 07:36:00 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Feb 6 07:36:00 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
Message-ID: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
Currently if a search is done on our company name, some of my archived posts
to evolt's theList are showing higher than our own website.
Naturally this is not ideal.
On Google they say listings will be removed, if the webmaster puts the
following meta tag in the page's head section:
Would it be possible to put this tag on the following pages please:
(I added an X to the end of each link, to prevent this post from increasing
their Google Pagerank)
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129672.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129605.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129604.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129617.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129610.htmlX
The above links show up before our own website.
These links might cause the same problem in the future:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129657.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129615.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129626.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129636.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129632.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129634.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129633.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129613.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129606.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129642.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129609.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129659.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129608.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129671.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129670.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129673.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129600.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2002-January/004716.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2002-January/004739.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129614.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020107/064994.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103713.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020114/065485.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103555.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103609.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103696.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129602.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129635.htmlX
I realise this is a long list, and it's my own fault for posting from that
email account, and posting the real name to a public archive, but I don't
see what else to do.
Evolt will probably always show up before our site in the SE, as it is more
popular, so these pages won't go away just by waiting.
Hope someone can help, thanks.
R i c h a r d.
PS, Is there anyway a poster could set a thread he started to "no archive",
by adding a keyword in the first post, for instance?
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri Feb 7 16:29:01 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Feb 7 16:29:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Does anyone know whether this request should be sent directly to a
moderator, or a different list?
Also, what kind of timeframe is usual for the moderators to accept/reject
articles submitted to evolt.org? I submitted an article one week ago, and
was wondering if I should re-submit it, or if it normally takes a few weeks
to process.
Thanks,
R i c h a r d.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Bennett"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:33 PM
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
Hi,
Currently if a search is done on our company name, some of my archived posts
to evolt's theList are showing higher than our own website.
Naturally this is not ideal.
On Google they say listings will be removed, if the webmaster puts the
following meta tag in the page's head section:
Would it be possible to put this tag on the following pages please:
(I added an X to the end of each link, to prevent this post from increasing
their Google Pagerank)
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129672.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129605.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129604.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129617.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129610.htmlX
The above links show up before our own website.
These links might cause the same problem in the future:
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129657.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129615.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129626.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129636.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129632.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129634.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129633.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129613.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129606.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129642.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129609.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129659.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129608.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129671.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129670.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129673.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129600.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2002-January/004716.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/thesitearchive/2002-January/004739.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129614.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020107/064994.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103713.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020114/065485.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103555.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103609.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020218/103696.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129602.htmlX
http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20021202/129635.htmlX
I realise this is a long list, and it's my own fault for posting from that
email account, and posting the real name to a public archive, but I don't
see what else to do.
Evolt will probably always show up before our site in the SE, as it is more
popular, so these pages won't go away just by waiting.
Hope someone can help, thanks.
R i c h a r d.
PS, Is there anyway a poster could set a thread he started to "no archive",
by adding a keyword in the first post, for instance?
________________________________________
evolt.org wiki:
http://freezope2.nipltd.net/acorn/evolt/
----
For unsubscribe, archive, and options, go to:
http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thesite
From cparker at swatgear.com Fri Feb 7 16:35:43 2003
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Feb 7 16:35:43 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E38F@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Richard Bennett wrote:
> Does anyone know whether this request should be sent directly to a
> moderator, or a different list?
>
> Also, what kind of timeframe is usual for the moderators to
> accept/reject articles submitted to evolt.org? I submitted an article
> one week ago, and was wondering if I should re-submit it, or if it
> normally takes a few weeks to process.
i don't know if this list is read anymore. i remember a while ago (maybe
over a year now) the powers that be talking about creating a different
list apart from theSite that... well actually i don't remember exactly
why. ;)
i got your email, but i have nothing to with anything on evolt.org. try
sending it to Dean Mah (i believe he is an administrator?) and/or
aardvark.
and i have no idea how long it takes for articles to be approved. maybe
they are just being lazy right now. ;)
chris.
From neuro at well.com Fri Feb 7 16:58:01 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Feb 7 16:58:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <01c901c2cefb$f56ba1a0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Richard Bennett wrote:
> Does anyone know whether this request should be sent directly to a
> moderator, or a different list?
>
> Also, what kind of timeframe is usual for the moderators to accept/reject
> articles submitted to evolt.org? I submitted an article one week ago, and
> was wondering if I should re-submit it, or if it normally takes a few
> weeks to process.
I forwarded it to the content administration list (email
admin at lists.evolt.org for this sort of thing) as I'm on that list, but I
think the current consensus is to not action this, as it affects a lot of
posts, not just yours. My personal suggestion is to modify your companies
site to more effectively be ranked by Google.
--
_ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/
From roselli at earthlink.net Fri Feb 7 17:47:05 2003
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Feb 7 17:47:05 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E38F@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <200302072346.h17NkG3b005968@leo.evolt.org>
> From: "Chris W. Parker"
[...]
> i don't know if this list is read anymore. i remember a while ago
> (maybe over a year now) the powers that be talking about creating a
> different list apart from theSite that... well actually i don't
> remember exactly why. ;)
desdev and, er, something else... primarily to split some of the
discussions we were having to minimize traffic on this list for
people who weren't into the tech or design threads...
> i got your email, but i have nothing to with anything on evolt.org.
> try sending it to Dean Mah (i believe he is an administrator?) and/or
> aardvark.
alternatively, you can send to content at lists.evolt.org or even
info at evolt.org (which i get and forward on anyway)...
> and i have no idea how long it takes for articles to be approved.
> maybe they are just being lazy right now. ;)
it takes as long as it takes for a content rep to grab it, review it,
offer comments, edit, and approve, all while juggling the merry
duties of life...
sadly, being all-volunteer, it can take a it sometimes... just keep
harassing us...
i can tell you that i've been pretty incommunicado all week
because of work chaos, so i haven't been keeping up on the
status or articles in the queue...
--
my latest book project:
Web Graphics for Non-Designers
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151159/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151159
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri Feb 7 17:53:01 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Feb 7 17:53:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <01c901c2cefb$f56ba1a0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Message-ID: <094401c2cf03$424f4ce0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
to their posts, to trigger this switch?
If nothing is done about this, there is a real problem.
It is suggested that site-checks be requested by putting "site check "
in the title.
Site checks are typically for new sites, just being launched.
It takes at least around 3 to 6 months for a new site to get a really good
Pagerank(tm) from Google.
evolt.org has a pagerank of 8/10 - there are very few sites that will ever
get such a high rank, so evolt's result will often show very high in the
listings.
So a webmaster asks for a site-check on evolt - naturally he has to post the
URL - and the webmaster's client sees the (sometimes negative) site crits
showing up close to their own site on Google, for a very long time,
discrediting the webmaster.
That's a list of some sites requesting a site check on thelist.
So taking the (company) name from the URL, we see how these sites rank
compared to evolt's archive of their site check:
http://google.com/search?q=stemofficial
http://google.com/search?q=coeville
http://google.com/search?q=magisnetworks
http://google.com/search?q=rapidfiregames
http://google.com/search?q=GamingSA
http://google.com/search?q=chadsavage
http://google.com/search?q=prettyhipprogramming
http://google.com/search?q=rci-nv
http://google.com/search?q=dittodesign
http://google.com/search?q=kfx-design
http://google.com/search?q=hugobia
http://google.com/search?q=stimilon
http://google.com/search?q=brendonbarton
Those are the first I tried, and everywhere the evolt site-check shows up on
the first page.
Often these site-checks contain some pretty damming critiques, about issues
that have probably been resolved on the sites, but the critiques will follow
the site for ever.
Either there should be an effective nocache alternative available, or list
users should be repeatedly warned about these issues.
Please forward this to the appropriate list,
Thanks,
R i c h a r d
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri Feb 7 18:00:01 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Feb 7 18:00:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <200302072346.h17NkG3b005968@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <094e01c2cf04$28ce1b10$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Thanks Chris and aardvark,
<----- Original Message -----
Message-ID: <200302080008.h1808q3b007018@leo.evolt.org>
> From: "Richard Bennett"
[...]
> That's a list of some sites requesting a site check on thelist.
> So taking the (company) name from the URL, we see how these sites rank
> compared to evolt's archive of their site check:
hmmm... following your list...
http://www.google.com/search?q=algonquinstudios
http://www.google.com/search?q=algonquin%20studios
http://www.google.com/search?q=algonquinstudios.com
i requested a site critique on thelist... nowhere does the result of
that critique appear in my google results...
somehow my rankings aren't impacted... if i were a jerk, i'd even
argue that the evolt.org critiques should easily be overcome in page
ranks by any well-built site that is SE-friendly...
> Those are the first I tried, and everywhere the evolt site-check shows
> up on the first page. Often these site-checks contain some pretty
> damming critiques, about issues that have probably been resolved on
> the sites, but the critiques will follow the site for ever.
[...]
granted... all the better for users to see the site is different, and
perhaps know the author cared enough to ask...?
--
my latest book project:
Web Graphics for Non-Designers
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151159/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151159
From neuro at well.com Fri Feb 7 19:07:59 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Feb 7 19:07:59 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <01c901c2cefb$f56ba1a0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> <094401c2cf03$424f4ce0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <021a01c2cf0e$3bbc4080$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Richard Bennett wrote:
> [snip]
>
> So taking the (company) name from the URL, we see how these sites rank
> compared to evolt's archive of their site check:
>
> [snip]
did you try adding white space in the appropriate places to see what
difference it makes to the results? you seem to have quite a few spaceless
names there which probably need spaces in them to get more appropriate
results
>
> Those are the first I tried, and everywhere the evolt site-check shows
> up on the first page.
> Often these site-checks contain some pretty damming critiques, about
> issues that have probably been resolved on the sites, but the critiques
> will follow the site for ever.
cool - do you advocate going back into newspaper archives and excising bad
news about people who are now good people? If so, I'll hand you over to my
colleague Winston who will probably be more on your wavelength ...
doubleplusungood.
> Either there should be an effective nocache alternative available, or
> list users should be repeatedly warned about these issues.
The list is public. The list archive is public. Consider yourself warned.
> Please forward this to the appropriate list,
No offence intended, but I'm not your PA - do it yourself.
--
_ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri Feb 7 19:28:01 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Feb 7 19:28:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <200302080008.h1808q3b007018@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <096f01c2cf10$717effd0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark"
<091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <01c901c2cefb$f56ba1a0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> <094401c2cf03$424f4ce0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <021a01c2cf0e$3bbc4080$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Message-ID: <099001c2cf16$e00ec650$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
in his posts, and all would have been fine.
No censure.
If this example still seems Orwellian to you, I'm sorry, it's the best I can
do.
Please forward this to the appropriate list,
Message-ID: <9A5F7E22-3B0E-11D7-A630-0030657D18E2@gozz.com>
Just wanted to weigh in here, mostly agree with William:
- thelist archive + google = very helpful for developers in and outside
the evolt community.
- the equation above applies to anything on-topic, site checks are
on-topic.
- regarding posts critical of clients that name that client .... well
that's just stoopid.
- one has the option of asking for site critiques to only be sent
directly to the poster.
- I hardly ever follow site check threads unless I've participated in
them, which I rarely have ... perhaps thecheck at lists.evolt.org? I keep
on threatening to buy a laptop and donate my Intel tower to evolt,
perhaps I will live up to my threat.
-----------------------
Erik Mattheis
GoZz Digital
Flash and ColdFusion Development
Minneapolis, MN
-----------------------
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Fri Feb 7 21:03:00 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Fri Feb 7 21:03:00 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <9A5F7E22-3B0E-11D7-A630-0030657D18E2@gozz.com>
Message-ID: <09df01c2cf1d$c4a23080$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
<- thelist archive + google = very helpful for developers in and outside
carries a lot of weight for Google, this easily lists high up in the
results.
I guess putting the site on a dev-server not connected with the developer,
and replacing the content with dummy-content is the way to go then...
<09df01c2cf1d$c4a23080$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <028e01c2cf4f$20637470$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Richard Bennett wrote:
> [snip]
>
> It's the URL in the requests title that gets picked-up. As the
> carries a lot of weight for Google, this easily lists high up in the
> results.
How many people actually search on URL tho ... you're keying a rare scenario
here.
> I guess putting the site on a dev-server not connected with the
> developer, and replacing the content with dummy-content is the way to go
> then...
For goodness sake, if this concerns you so, then use a URL redirection
service to give people access to the site, e.g. tinyurl.com, so that your
precious URL is not exposed to the glare of the googlemonster. Stop blaming
the archive and think outside the box.
--
_ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/
From neuro at well.com Sat Feb 8 03:00:15 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Sat Feb 8 03:00:15 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <01c901c2cefb$f56ba1a0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> <094401c2cf03$424f4ce0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <021a01c2cf0e$3bbc4080$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> <099001c2cf16$e00ec650$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <029601c2cf50$17388ab0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Richard Bennett wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > The list is public. The list archive is public. Consider yourself
> > warned.
>
> I realise that now, so of course I won't be asking for anymore
> site-checks. I just thought that as there was a simple solution to
> rectify my previous errors, a quick, polite note to the evolt admins
> would suffice...
As I have said to you in another post, instead of posting your precious site
URL to thelist, use a URL redirection service such as tinyurl.com to provide
access to the site you want people to see. The request you asked does not
have a 'simple' solution, as it requires someone to manually go through the
posts you mentioned and butcher them.
A 'nocache' request solution is also likely less than simple to implement -
how do you distinguish from someone just saying the required keyword? what
happens if someone uses the correct syntax incorrectly, then requiring an
evoltadmin to manually rectify the situation?
Please remember that none of us manage evolt as a full time concern, we do
this in our precious spare time, and by the grace of $deity, we manage just
fine at the moment, but in my own personal opinion, we really don't need
these types of requests clogging our time. Other admins opinions may vary.
Your statutory rights are not affected. Do not use while damp. Insert only
as directed.
ps, please consider changing the separators you use to demarcate previous
reply content in your messages, to something more standard, such as >
--
_ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/
From roselli at earthlink.net Sat Feb 8 12:12:05 2003
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Feb 8 12:12:05 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
In-Reply-To: <096f01c2cf10$717effd0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <3E44D6C4.19393.35BBC34B@localhost>
richard, you've really gotta find a better method to quote replies...
i had a hella time telling your comments from mine...
> From: "Richard Bennett" <richard.bennett at skynet.be>
[...]
> <i requested a site critique on thelist... nowhere does the result of
> <that critique appear in my google results... <somehow my rankings
> aren't impacted...
>
> I'm wondering how that offers a solution to all the authors whose
> sites *have* been impacted... I could have made that list of example
> searches 10 times as long as I did, I thought it was long enough to
> get the point over... I grant you, there are some sites where the site
> critique doesn't show on the first page, like yours. I think that's
> great for them, it doesn't help the issue though.
granted, a request with a URL may result in google rankings that are
higher than your own site... yeah, that can be a bitch, but all along
evolt.org has had a public archive and everyone knows that anything
they publish can and will appear in that archive... page ranking as a
result of this really *is* the author's problem, and their
responsibility to address with good SE practice on their own site...
> <if i were a jerk, i'd even
> <argue that the evolt.org critiques should easily be overcome in page
> <ranks by any well-built site that is SE-friendly... The reason the
> critique request for your site didn't show-up in the test searches,
> was not because it was such a well-built and SE-friendly site, (which
> it is) but because you didn't put your URL in the title of your
> "design feedback" request (as it has been advised to do on thelist
> several times). If you try:
> http://google.com/search?q=algonquinstudios+design You see it half-way
> down the page. Also, it was also just 2 posts - if that had run into a
> 50 post flame-war, with your URL in the title, it would be you posting
> this.
i know there were more than two posts on the subject... and i don't
mind it appearing there... it tells me, however, that my ranking for
the keyword 'design' needs to be improved... granted, that's a search
term (algonquinstudios design) that i don't ever recall seeing in my
logs... and that's a factor -- is t really something someone would
search on?
> Ok, so why does
> evolt list above your site here then:
> http://google.com/search?q=%22Liquid+Design+for+the+Web%22 I'm sure
> you don't mind evolt listing higher there, but it does show that evolt
> will list very high in the rankings, when it's wanted, and when it's
> not.
actually, it's funny you mention that... a while ago i commented on
the admin list that the evolt.org article should come up above my
version -- that it bothered me that the algonquin version came up
first... clearly that has changed, and i'd bet it's because of the
comments on the article making it slightly more relevant...
> Especially the
> word "easily" seems to imply that you find the list of 13 sites I
> posted, have the evolt.org critiques listed so close to their own
> sites, because they have not taken a few easy steps, and it's
> basically their own fault. That's not correct. The second site had
> PR4/10 and looked quite SE friendly. The third site has PR6/10 (like
> yours) The fifth one has 5/10 in fact, most had a PR of 4 or up.
then they need to look at finding ways to increase it... yes, it's
not ideal, but it's big list -- it's gonna happen...
> <[...]
> <granted... all the better for users to see the site is different, and
> <perhaps know the author cared enough to ask...?
>
> I am pretty sure that if these webmasters knew that the site-checks
> would stay with their site for years, on the first page of google,
> they wouldn't have requested them in the first place. thelist should
> be a help to webauthors, not a poisoned gift!
granted, but then we simply update that in thelist guidelines and
sign-up page... we've got a savvy group of users, hopefully they will
read that and consider the impact...
> Please consider setting-up a way of adding the nocache tags, or
> deleting archived posts, or adding spaces between the letters of URLs
> in the title, or at least officially warn thelist users of this
> issue...
i'd rather see a warning on sign-up... munging list posts always
bothers me, and creating 'tags' to programmatically handle it is a
lot of work for our all-volunteer team to do...
now to search on more interesting combinations of my domain...
--
my latest book project:
Web Graphics for Non-Designers
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151159/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151159
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sat Feb 8 12:13:05 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sat Feb 8 12:13:05 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <06f701c2cde4$4e2636c0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <091201c2cef7$778abc20$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <01c901c2cefb$f56ba1a0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> <094401c2cf03$424f4ce0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <021a01c2cf0e$3bbc4080$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net> <099001c2cf16$e00ec650$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <029601c2cf50$17388ab0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Message-ID: <0a7401c2cf83$b31246a0$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
<From: "William Anderson" <neuro at well.com>
<As I have said to you in another post, instead of posting your precious
site
<URL to thelist, use a URL redirection service such as tinyurl.com to
provide
<access to the site you want people to see.
That's a good solution for the future.
<The request you asked does not
<have a 'simple' solution, as it requires someone to manually go through the
<posts you mentioned and butcher them.
<A 'nocache' request solution is also likely less than simple to implement -
<how do you distinguish from someone just saying the required keyword? what
<happens if someone uses the correct syntax incorrectly, then requiring an
<evoltadmin to manually rectify the situation?
<Please remember that none of us manage evolt as a full time concern, we do
<this in our precious spare time, and by the grace of $deity, we manage just
<fine at the moment, but in my own personal opinion, we really don't need
<these types of requests clogging our time. Other admins opinions may vary.
<Your statutory rights are not affected. Do not use while damp. Insert
only
<as directed.
Ok, fine. Thanks for explaining your position.
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sat Feb 8 12:13:09 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sat Feb 8 12:13:09 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <9A5F7E22-3B0E-11D7-A630-0030657D18E2@gozz.com> <09df01c2cf1d$c4a23080$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <028e01c2cf4f$20637470$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Message-ID: <0a6801c2cf81$be6de880$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
<From: "William Anderson" <neuro at well.com>
<How many people actually search on URL tho ... you're keying a rare
scenario
<here.
No, they search on company name, which is contained in the URL.
There are several examples in my third post in this string for your
convenience.
<For goodness sake, if this concerns you so, then use a URL redirection
<service to give people access to the site, e.g. tinyurl.com, so that your
<precious URL is not exposed to the glare of the googlemonster. Stop
blaming
<the archive and think outside the box.
I'm sorry I'm frustrating you with my inferior intellect here.
Using tinyurl.com is actually a good idea, for those to come - shame about
us idiots who made the mistake already.
From richard.bennett at skynet.be Tue Feb 11 08:24:43 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Tue Feb 11 08:24:43 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <3E44D6C4.19393.35BBC34B@localhost>
Message-ID: <1ec901c2d1c4$81694430$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Hi,
----- Original Message -----
From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
>
> richard, you've really gotta find a better method to quote replies...
> i had a hella time telling your comments from mine...
I re-enabled OE default quoting - hope that's ok now.
I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to debate this issue, and get
this situation resolved.
I was intending on submitting an article to evolt to warn other theList
users of this issue, and to offer some ideas or guidelines.
My idea was to advising using a site's IP address (as tinyURL use might
increase archive linkrot), instead of the URL, and offering an easy way to
find the IP address (bookmarklet or something).
If anyone has any comments, feel free to reply, on or off-list.
Thanks again,
Richard.
From lists at mantruc.com Tue Feb 11 08:40:01 2003
From: lists at mantruc.com (javier velasco)
Date: Tue Feb 11 08:40:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <3E44D6C4.19393.35BBC34B@localhost> <1ec901c2d1c4$81694430$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <3E490981.4E646F60@mantruc.com>
Hi Richard:
Why do you say "I was intending...", have you changed you mind? IMO it's a
good idea to send a small article to help others be aware of the risk caused
by the magnetic power of evolt.org to search engines.
my 2 pesos
javier
Richard Bennett wrote:
>
> I was intending on submitting an article to evolt to warn other theList
> users of this issue, and to offer some ideas or guidelines.
> My idea was to advising using a site's IP address (as tinyURL use might
> increase archive linkrot), instead of the URL, and offering an easy way to
> find the IP address (bookmarklet or something).
> If anyone has any comments, feel free to reply, on or off-list.
From neuro at well.com Tue Feb 11 12:59:01 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Tue Feb 11 12:59:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <3E44D6C4.19393.35BBC34B@localhost> <1ec901c2d1c4$81694430$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <0c1f01c2d1ff$554b5060$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Richard Bennett wrote:
> [snip]
> My idea was to advising using a site's IP address (as tinyURL use might
> increase archive linkrot), instead of the URL, and offering an easy way
> to find the IP address (bookmarklet or something).
using an IP address to access a site is useless. IP addresses can change
often while DNS names attached to them will stay the same. Some sites also
use multple IP addresses via load balancing or clustering or simple round
robin - which would you choose?
Also, some sites (especially virtual hosts hosted on Apache or IIS) may only
be access by name, not IP, as many sites may be hosted on a single IP and
the sites accessed by the Host: HTTP header. Accessing such a site will
give you either the first vhost set up, or a master site page, either of
which will most likely have nothing to do with the site you actually
intended to be seen.
--
_ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/
From cparker at swatgear.com Tue Feb 11 13:12:01 2003
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Feb 11 13:12:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADF4E@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
William Anderson <mailto:neuro at well.com> wrote:
> Richard Bennett wrote:
> > [snip]
> > My idea was to advising using a site's IP address (as tinyURL use
> > might increase archive linkrot), instead of the URL, and offering
> > an easy way to find the IP address (bookmarklet or something).
>
> using an IP address to access a site is useless.
useless? a bit extreme don't you think? it's definitely not useless.
even if the ip address COULD periodically change that's even better.
that means that the ip address would no longer be pointing to the
website in question thus weakening any link there may have been between
the former ip address of any given domain.
and although you list some good caveats to using an ip address instead
of a domain name, i'm sure the developer of the site would be able to
offer a suitable alternative to a domain name. but if it happened that
he could not find any suitable alternative to a domain name then i guess
he's just stuck with using a domain name or not getting a site check.
but that will be for him to decide.
what about this... (i don't know if it would work but) developers
usually have some of their own web space so maybe they could use some
sort of redirect to go from their webspace to the client in question.
like so...
display the address: http://mypersonalsite.com/client1/ and in that
directory have a default page that uses a server/client side redirect to
the appropriate url. (javascript might be best since i don't believe any
SE's follow them?)
chris.
From neuro at well.com Tue Feb 11 13:21:01 2003
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Tue Feb 11 13:21:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE1ADF4E@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <0c8501c2d202$65188af0$c802a8c0@local.zensoft.net>
Chris W. Parker wrote:
> [snip]
>
> display the address: http://mypersonalsite.com/client1/ and in that
> directory have a default page that uses a server/client side redirect to
> the appropriate url. (javascript might be best since i don't believe any
> SE's follow them?)
seems rather overcomplex to me ... imho the best solution to 'combat' the
high googlejuice evolt.org has is just to build the best damn sites you can,
and any critiques you receive should be of a mild 'oops, you missed a bit'
at best, as opposed to 'that site sucks'.
--
_ __/| ___ ___ __ _________ "When Microsoft Office is your only hammer,
\`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb." -- Rob Pegoraro
U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/
From cparker at swatgear.com Tue Feb 11 13:46:01 2003
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Tue Feb 11 13:46:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE14E3C0@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
William Anderson <mailto:neuro at well.com> wrote:
> Chris W. Parker wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > display the address: http://mypersonalsite.com/client1/ and in that
> > directory have a default page that uses a server/client side
> > redirect to the appropriate url. (javascript might be best since i
> > don't believe any SE's follow them?)
>
> seems rather overcomplex to me ... imho the best solution to 'combat'
> the high googlejuice evolt.org has is just to build the best damn
> sites you can, and any critiques you receive should be of a mild
> 'oops, you missed a bit' at best, as opposed to 'that site sucks'.
i agree with that and i don't think anyone else would say otherwise. but
i don't think that's the point.
chris.
From emeyer at lclark.edu Tue Feb 11 14:49:01 2003
From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer)
Date: Tue Feb 11 14:49:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] request for google blocking meta tag in archive post
In-Reply-To: <3E490981.4E646F60@mantruc.com>
References: <3E44D6C4.19393.35BBC34B@localhost>
<1ec901c2d1c4$81694430$9662fea9@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
<3E490981.4E646F60@mantruc.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b07ba6f0e8b0f6c@[149.175.43.62]>
I agree the article is a good idea.
In general it's a good idea to think carefully about possible
consequences before signing on to a publicly archived list, but I'm
not sure how many of us do this. For example, Yahoo archives are
usually "members only" archives so don't have this googling problem
(I'm not sure whether yahoo public archives get crawled).
I can think of one case where I was curious how a certain person I
know represented himself on the Internet. I discovered his posts on
a publicly archived list and it told me a great deal. It told me
what kind of persona he was presenting, and also it told me I would
not want to join such a list using my real name or information.
I prefer not to hide my identity if possible. But one has to
consider all the possible effects of being un-anonymous on the
Internet. It's hard to call back something once it has been
released...
Erika
>Hi Richard:
>
>Why do you say "I was intending...", have you changed you mind? IMO it's a
>good idea to send a small article to help others be aware of the risk caused
>by the magnetic power of evolt.org to search engines.
>
>my 2 pesos
>javier
>
>Richard Bennett wrote:
>
>>
>> I was intending on submitting an article to evolt to warn other theList
>> users of this issue, and to offer some ideas or guidelines.
>> My idea was to advising using a site's IP address (as tinyURL use might
>> increase archive linkrot), instead of the URL, and offering an easy way to
>> find the IP address (bookmarklet or something).
>> If anyone has any comments, feel free to reply, on or off-list.
--
From martin at takingitglobal.org Wed Feb 26 17:48:00 2003
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Wed Feb 26 17:48:00 2003
Subject: [thesite] Threading email messages in a mail group setting
Message-ID: <002201c2ddf1$8a3c9c40$cc01a8c0@martinlaptop>
Like most stuff we do, I'm building a groups application for the
organisation I work with [see it @ http://groups.takingitglobal.org]. I was
really happy with my message threading (using In-Reply-To), until a key user
of this tool discovered that their messages were not threading. A quick look
at a captured message (with all its headers) showed that their version of
Exchange Server is stripping the poor darling of those important headers.
Does anyone know of a reliable way to handle message threading, allowing for
the oddities of Exchange? I need to have a solution to this problem
implemented by tomorrow afternoon!
Cheers,
Martin Kuplens-Ewart
TakingITGlobal Int'l Coordination Team
From jeff at members.evolt.org Wed Feb 26 18:02:01 2003
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Feb 26 18:02:01 2003
Subject: [thesite] Threading email messages in a mail group setting
In-Reply-To: <002201c2ddf1$8a3c9c40$cc01a8c0@martinlaptop>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEINGJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
martin,
sorry, wrong list.
.jeff
http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/