From joe at artlung.com  Mon Jun 11 00:06:38 2001
From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 00:06:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Text browsing (was: infinite redirect thread)
In-Reply-To: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNKEJFDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <B7499F65.424A%joe@artlung.com>

Mark Cheng at wrote:

>> Check this:
>> http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/design.html
>> 
> 
> <chuckle>  I'm with him - lets go back to text based browsing!  Think
> clients would mind?

A well designed site that has anything meant to be read can be browsed with
a text browser.

One thought -- search engines are nothing but text browsers which slurp in
content. 

Think clients would mind if their sites can't be read by search engines?

    - Joe
-- 
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA




From adrian at logo-logic.com  Mon Jun 11 00:19:18 2001
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Mon Jun 11 00:19:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] win32 mysql and perl dbi
Message-ID: <00db01c0f235$94af9fa0$83ba2dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>

Hi again,

I decided to get smart and develop programs/scripts  on my local machine.
Ive got apache/mysql/php/perl all for windows downloaded and working
..except...
I cant seem to get perl to talk to mysql.  My script that is on the web
works fine and even when I change the shebang to reflect  windows perl it
still starts to run until it hits the first "SELECT: statement for mysql
then it comes up with "Can't call method "prepare" on an undefined value at
c:\AUSSIE..." My method for connecting and disconnecting on the live site
works fine but for some reason it wont locally.  I know that mysql is set up
ok because I have PHP mysqlAdmin set up and running locally. Even if I
change my connect string around the best I can come up with is this:

Access denied for user: 'afischer at localhost' (Using password: YES)

Any ideas at all would be appreciated.  Im hoping that when and if I ever
get it set up locally that the original plan of saving time while testing
will actually happen...

Thanks

Adrian Fischer






From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Mon Jun 11 00:36:38 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Mon Jun 11 00:36:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Text browsing (was: infinite redirect thread)
In-Reply-To: <B7499F65.424A%joe@artlung.com>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNOEJGDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>


>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Joe Crawford
>Sent: 11 June 2001 13:04
>Mark Cheng at wrote:
>
>>> Check this:
>>> http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/design.html
>>>
>>
>> <chuckle>  I'm with him - lets go back to text based browsing!  Think
>> clients would mind?
>
>A well designed site that has anything meant to be read can be browsed with
>a text browser.
>
>One thought -- search engines are nothing but text browsers which slurp in
>content.
>
>Think clients would mind if their sites can't be read by search engines?
>
>    - Joe

:) You can see the conversation can't you?

" So are you sure you want to design solely for  flash with IE6 on Windows
in 1024??  Many users won't like it, some won't have it, you could be in
trouble from an accessibility viewpoint, oh and search engines won't index
it."

client : "can i have pretty pictures and those really cool zooming effects
without it?" (also known as "the competitors have it therefore we must have
it or else customers will think we are inferior").  "don't worry about
search engines - we'll just buy placement."

"Your site will be much quicker if you didn't have all this frippery -
that's important isn't it?"

client: " I like the spinning 911 logo - especially with the changing
background fade in and the bugle for the cavalry charge"

Mark


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From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Mon Jun 11 00:54:48 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Mon Jun 11 00:54:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS
References: <B74995AC.4245%joe@artlung.com>
Message-ID: <001501c0f23a$d74dd0c0$0300a8c0@Home>

I could use either java or asp. I have some other resources given to me in
asp so prefer to stick to that. I already got a cookie written, just don't
know how to make it go onto the client.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Crawford <joe at artlung.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] CSS


> on 6/10/2001 9:09 PM, Gary Finnigan at gfinnigan at talk21.com wrote:
>
> > At risk of seeming useless, how do I set a cookie?
>
> This brings up a critical question -- what resources do you have at your
> disposal? Server type? Options? Etc?
>
> You can set cookies with any reasonable server-parsed language, and even
> javascript.
>
> I quite like the idea you have for allowing people to resize the font size
> as they wish.
>
> Best,
>
>     - Joe
> --
> ...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
> .... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
> .... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
> .... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From asifsuria at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 01:18:09 2001
From: asifsuria at yahoo.com (Asif Suria)
Date: Mon Jun 11 01:18:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS
In-Reply-To: <001501c0f23a$d74dd0c0$0300a8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <20010611061502.8430.qmail@web4701.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gary Finnigan <gfinnigan at talk21.com> wrote:
>I already got a
> cookie written, just don't
> know how to make it go onto the client.

I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean by
saying that you have a cookie written but don't know
how to make it go onto the client. 

However if you want to set a cookie using asp then use
something like

Response.Cookies("someName") = theValueOfSomeName

where "theValueOfSomeName" is a variable that can hold
any value. 

To set an expiry date for your cookie use

Response.Cookies("someName").expires = Date + 1

I hope this helps.

Asif


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From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Mon Jun 11 04:30:25 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Mon Jun 11 04:30:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNMEJEDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <009401c0f259$04dedf20$9387043e@r3g4p8>

> The question still remains -  is a redirect appropriate for sites which
> don't cater for certain categories of visitors, whether browser or some
> other factor is the determinant.  For example, flash only sites and text
> based browsers.  Or, sites designed for Win and any Mac user.

One comment : "Let the user choose".

It's not really a question of having flash or not, having ie6 or not, it's
also a matter of personal choice.

I mean, I may have ie6 with the latest flash plugin on T1 at 1600*1200 and
still prefer to have a fast loading html page instead of a slow loading
flash intro.

I may have a 33.3 kbs connexion, and still want to look at the high
bandwidth version of a site, simply because it looks appealing.

I prefer a plain page telling me what my choices are, than having my
"surfing experience" directed by a stupid js or cgi or wathever. Afaik js
can't read my mind (yet).

That's _my_ choice, and imho it's the choice of most internet users. We are
not so dumb after all ;-)

Philippe





From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Mon Jun 11 04:30:40 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 04:30:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Japanese characters in HTML q.
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90026C707A@severin.cursci.co.uk>

Hi all,

I'm working on a project using XSL to convert XML to HTML. Its all going
swimmingly so far, but I've run into something of a problem with Netscape 4.

If you look at http://freelance.bocuma.com you'll see what I mean (ignore
the minor layout problems for now - thats standard stuff). The Japanese
characters don't get translated correctly in NN4.x, and I just can't see
why. The source XML is in UTF-8, and the XSL engine I'm using is converting
characters into character entities like &#26085;&#26412;&#12391;&#12399;

All I can think of is that NN4.x isn't reading these characters correctly.
I've hunted around on the web for advice on this, and got NN4.x
Japanese-text happy (if I visit www.microsoft.com/japan it looks fine,
although, strangely, www.shift.jp.com is not).

Where am I going wrong? Is it my NN4.x setup thats at fault, or my HTML/XSL
procedure?

Thanks in advance,

Kerin



From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Mon Jun 11 04:33:30 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 04:33:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90026C707C@severin.cursci.co.uk>

at the risk of being redundant, you don't have to necessarily mess around
with stylesheets and cookies.

at http://freelance.bocuma.com you can increase decrease the text size at
will (to a minimum and maximum size). It only works on IE5+, Mozilla, and
Netscape 6 however.

Maybe it can be retrofitted to work in v4 browsers and Opera, but this site
has been built with v5 browsers in mind, so I never bothered looking into
it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Finnigan [mailto:gfinnigan at talk21.com]
Sent: 11 June 2001 01:00
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] CSS


Hi,

I have a very lage site which I maintain for a charity organisation. We are
striving to make this site acessible to everyone. One of the ways we do this
is by 'copying' the site 3 times, each version with a slightly greater font
size.
This takes a massive amount of time and energy to update.
I am in the process of using a CSS file to control the 'normal' part of the
site. I would like people to be able to click on a link and load in a
different style sheet that will allow them to view a greater font size.
I know this can be done, but don't know how.
Can anyone help?
Regards and thanks in advance
Gary Finnigan


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From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Jun 11 04:53:46 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 04:53:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
Message-ID: <OF4D7CA7BF.E2788D83-ON80256A68.00349A93@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------





Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)


>The question still remains -  is a redirect appropriate for sites which
>don't cater for certain categories of visitors, whether browser or some
>other factor is the determinant.  For example, flash only sites and text
>based browsers.  Or, sites designed for Win and any Mac user.

There are another couple of questions before this - is it appropriate to
design a site which *is* Flash only, or Win only?

If so, when?

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Martin
>>

>>I don't think avoiding event listeners would cause unjustifiable
>>hardship...

>I don't think not coding  a base font size, avoiding nested tables and
>avoiding using colour to indicate incorrect information entered into a
form
>would cause unjustifiable hardship either.  What's your point?  Are you
>suggesting that I shouldn't use event listeners because it won't be
>accessible?  event listeners on the ranger site are used for effects which
>sighted users expect.  It is still useable (mostly) without js (actually
it
>is getting more usable all the time thanks to suggestions from .jeff)

Sorry, my fault. That was shorthand for "avoiding Javascript as a
necessity for accessing the site's core functionality"

Nothing wrong with doing something which gives *added* value beyond
the core functionality to capable browsers as long as it degrades
gracefully.

An example - most forms I've done for UK users have a wee JS function which
simply uppercases the postcode (as upper case is the standard format)
onChange. Degrades beautifully and is just an extra wee bit of niceness to
users.

>The same can't be said of the fact that I've taken the underlines off the
>links and identified them with a  colour change - fine for sighted users
but
>not very helpful if you are colour blind.

More significant with low-contrast colour changes, but yes, you're
right.

>I'm not thrilled about the use of images for the nav menu either - to try
>and allow for that each A tag has a title, each img has an alt and they
are
>the same - I thought this would help people with aural browsers understand
>what was happening.

If you *really* can't use real text, then this is a good substitute.

>Flash nav menus must be a problem for aural browsers -
>are you suggesting nobody should use those?

It's something I'd advise extreme caution over, yes.

>The internet is a global medium - I think that quoting Australian
>legislation is only part of the story.  Even if the Australian legislation
>is the most restrictive (ha - Australian politicians think they can ban
>online gambling) isn't the issue that sites need to cater for all global
>legislation - there is a possibility that the owners of a website could be
>sued by anyone anywhere?

Yes. Look at the French suing Yahoo. There's a case at the moment
where an Australian is suing some Californian outfit for defamation
in the Australian courts. However, for disability legislation, you could
possibly get away with arguing the case for the juristiction of your target
audience to apply. If that's global, you're out of luck (vide the SOCOG
case)

But I haven't seen a juristiction yet where disability explicit legislation
or
working practise to general legislation hasn't been based on WAI
guidelines.

Plus it's generally good practise to make sites accessible - think of it
as an easy expansion of your potential market.

>Are we getting to the stage where browser differences
>will be the least of the worries and catering for people with disabilities
-
>most of which you can't test for

You can, but it's a bit more tricky - you need to get real people to test
it for you. But you'll be doing this anyway in the name of usability,
surely..?

>- will be the real issue.
Probably, yes.

>hmmm - I think I'd better start learning a couple of server side
languages!

Always useful... they have 2 advantages:
* You can cope with any user agent variations
* Most things you do are transparent to users (ie they don't notice that
they're
  getting something different unless another user is next to them - it just
works)


Cheers
Martin

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The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
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PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
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From mark.cheng at ranger.com.au  Mon Jun 11 04:56:56 2001
From: mark.cheng at ranger.com.au (Mark Cheng)
Date: Mon Jun 11 04:56:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
In-Reply-To: <009401c0f259$04dedf20$9387043e@r3g4p8>
Message-ID: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEJKDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>

Phillipe,

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Philippe Jadin
>Sent: 11 June 2001 17:27
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect
>check)
>
>
>> The question still remains -  is a redirect appropriate for sites which
>> don't cater for certain categories of visitors, whether browser or some
>> other factor is the determinant.  For example, flash only sites and text
>> based browsers.  Or, sites designed for Win and any Mac user.
>
>One comment : "Let the user choose".
>
How?  once you have hit the page, its too late isn't it?  your browser is
already trying to download and render the page.  You're right, js can't read
your mind, nor can it determine whether you are colour blind or have poor
eyesight.  I like the idea of letting the user choose, but the
practicalities would be difficult.

Would it be possible to have a "gateway page" with various options, say for
blind users, to serve them up the same page in a different format? that
could be achieved with server side code couldn't it?

I don't think that would be possible using client side code? any thoughts?


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From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Jun 11 05:00:36 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 05:00:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
Message-ID: <OFA4B1A292.A9600E93-ON80256A68.00365C02@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

"I once saw a page that said ``this page best viewed by coming over to my
office and looking at it on my monitor.'' You don't often see honesty like
that. "

Reminds me of a certain evolt admin's page which is no longer there...

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)


Check this:
http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/design.html




--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
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From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Jun 11 05:06:16 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 05:06:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
Message-ID: <OFE06C9ECA.9021856D-ON80256A68.0036D958@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Yeah this is good. Just don't describe the Flash version as the 'full'
experience, and the HTML as something inferior.

Oh, and I hear that the alpha of ie7's DOM contains the object user.mind.
They've made it writable too:

user.mind.osChoice = Windows
is, I believe the only legal option.

Cheers
Martin





Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)


> The question still remains -  is a redirect appropriate for sites which
> don't cater for certain categories of visitors, whether browser or some
> other factor is the determinant.  For example, flash only sites and text
> based browsers.  Or, sites designed for Win and any Mac user.

One comment : "Let the user choose".

I mean, I may have ie6 with the latest flash plugin on T1 at 1600*1200 and
still prefer to have a fast loading html page instead of a slow loading
flash intro.

I may have a 33.3 kbs connexion, and still want to look at the high
bandwidth version of a site, simply because it looks appealing.

I prefer a plain page telling me what my choices are, than having my
"surfing experience" directed by a stupid js or cgi or wathever. Afaik js
can't read my mind (yet).



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
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From DC_the_gasman at Bigfoot.com  Mon Jun 11 05:10:05 2001
From: DC_the_gasman at Bigfoot.com (DC)
Date: Mon Jun 11 05:10:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] I guess Netscape 4.76 is no longer current....
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010610153738.02dc2700@baratta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010610153738.02dc2700@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b74a4771145c@[212.229.49.71]>

Anthony Baratta wrote:
>http://www.workout.com/common/browsers.asp
>
>If you visit this site with Netscape 4.x, you are directed to the above page.

If you visit this site with Mozilla 0.9.1 you are directed to the above page.

There must have been a whole slew of browsers released since the 7th 
of June if that Mozilla build isn't recent enough... :-)

DC



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Jun 11 05:36:06 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 05:36:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Japanese characters in HTML q.
Message-ID: <OFB12EC4C2.A0E8B3FC-ON80256A68.00372454@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Kerin

I understand that there are 2 UTF-8 type Japanese interpretations:
Shift-JIS (e.g. Google Japan) and EUC-JP (e.g. Yahoo Japan).

You might want to look at Unicode - there's an interesting debate
on whether it's useful or not going on rn:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/06/0132203&mode=thread

Cheers
Martin




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Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] Japanese characters in HTML q.


Hi all,

I'm working on a project using XSL to convert XML to HTML. Its all going
swimmingly so far, but I've run into something of a problem with Netscape
4.

If you look at http://freelance.bocuma.com you'll see what I mean (ignore
the minor layout problems for now - thats standard stuff). The Japanese
characters don't get translated correctly in NN4.x, and I just can't see
why. The source XML is in UTF-8, and the XSL engine I'm using is converting
characters into character entities like &#26085;&#26412;&#12391;&#12399;

All I can think of is that NN4.x isn't reading these characters correctly.
I've hunted around on the web for advice on this, and got NN4.x
Japanese-text happy (if I visit www.microsoft.com/japan it looks fine,
although, strangely, www.shift.jp.com is not).

Where am I going wrong? Is it my NN4.x setup thats at fault, or my HTML/XSL
procedure?


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The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
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partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
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this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From peter at vardus.com  Mon Jun 11 05:53:11 2001
From: peter at vardus.com (Peter Van Dijck)
Date: Mon Jun 11 05:53:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJJHMEOLIMKIKIOMJAEBDKEAA.hblair@bigfoot.com>
References: <3B106888.B61833A7@dowebs.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010611114441.02b54f00@mail.vardus.net>

Hi,
I'll need to manage domain names for the following countries: France, 
Germany, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands. I was told that for some of 
these the websites have to be actually hosted in these countries?? I'm 
trying to find the relevant websites that can give me this info (I'd want 
to host them all on the same server in the UK).
Thanks for any tips on where to find this information!
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down




From runciter at rosa.com  Mon Jun 11 06:02:41 2001
From: runciter at rosa.com (Niklaus Haldimann)
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:02:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
References: <3B106888.B61833A7@dowebs.com> <4.3.2.20010611114441.02b54f00@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <3B24A27E.CCD1F0EE@rosa.com>

Peter Van Dijck wrote:
> I'll need to manage domain names for the following countries: France,
> Germany, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands.

I found http://www.alldomains.com to be a good place to look up these
sort of things ("International Research" in the left column). It's
primarily a registrar though. I don't know what they're worth as a
registrar, I have never registrered with them and I am not affiliated
with them ...

--
Niklaus Haldimann, Frontend Engineer
At Work: http://www.rosa.com
At Play: http://www.ubique.ch
--
log-power to the WAP-people: http://www.waplog.ch



From TheEnigma at Web-side.com  Mon Jun 11 06:05:06 2001
From: TheEnigma at Web-side.com (TheEnigma)
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:05:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] beware websitegarage.netscape.com
In-Reply-To: <p05100302b7421b798574@[192.168.1.5]>
Message-ID: <000001c0f266$1a845500$da00a8c0@jsampson>

Probably just NS trying to make themselves look good :(

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg
Sent: 05 June 2001 06:59
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] beware websitegarage.netscape.com


I just got around to trying out the website garage, which someone 
recommended a few days ago, and was shocked -- shocked I tell you -- 
to see such a low 'browser compatibility' ratings for certain sites 
I've developed.

This tool gives you demerit points for using 'alt' and 'title' tags, 
because some older browsers, and web tv, ignore them. And as for 
xhtml pages...

What is netscape teaching the young'uns of today, I ask?


-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/

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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From Jesus.Gorriti at iconmedialab.es  Mon Jun 11 06:05:21 2001
From: Jesus.Gorriti at iconmedialab.es (Jesus G. Gorriti)
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:05:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
Message-ID: <83713C2F568DD411B9FB00508BAE3E46757BE2@ESMADMSX01>

URL for spanish NIC
http://www.es-nic.com/

They are a bit pesty though (ask for loads of documents
in order to register the domain). But its not needed
to be hosted in the country (just the name).


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Van Dijck [mailto:peter at vardus.com]
>Sent: lunes, 11 de junio de 2001 12.46
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
>
>
>Hi,
>I'll need to manage domain names for the following countries: France, 
>Germany, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands. I was told that for some of 
>these the websites have to be actually hosted in these countries?? I'm 
>trying to find the relevant websites that can give me this 
>info (I'd want 
>to host them all on the same server in the UK).
>Thanks for any tips on where to find this information!
>Peter
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>http://liga1.com building multiple language/culture websites
>http://poorbuthappy.editthispage.com online ethnology, up&down
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>



From filip at netdesign.se  Mon Jun 11 06:09:21 2001
From: filip at netdesign.se (Filip Salomonsson)
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:09:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20010611114441.02b54f00@mail.vardus.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKEEIJKOAA.filip@netdesign.se>

Peter van Dijck:
> I'll need to manage domain names for the following countries: France,
> Germany, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands.

You may find the information you need at <http://www.allwhois.com/>. They
have links to the different NICs and a summary of the rules that apply to
each TLD. I don't think the actual site has to be hosted in a specific
country but meny, id not all, of the countries you mentioned require "local
presence". What that actually means may differ. Read the rules from each NIC
to find out.

/filip




From matthew at natuzzi.com  Mon Jun 11 06:09:36 2001
From: matthew at natuzzi.com (Watkins Matthew)
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:09:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
Message-ID: <A7DB784F653FD311BBFB00500435FA9C01281556@mail>

Peter,

Italy has liberalised its domain policy. You don't have to have a server in
Italy for your .it, but there are other restrictions. You can read about
them here: http://www.nic.it/RA/en/index.html

As far as I know both France and Germany required a local contact for the
domain as well as a local server (Belgium has recently relaxed it laws). 

The following links might help:
http://www.domain-registry.nl/english.html
http://www.denic.de/index.en.html
http://www.nic.fr/english/

cheers

Matthew



> I'll need to manage domain names for the following countries: France, 
> Germany, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands. I was told that 
> for some of 
> these the websites have to be actually hosted in these 
> countries?? I'm 
> trying to find the relevant websites that can give me this 
> info (I'd want 
> to host them all on the same server in the UK).



From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Mon Jun 11 06:58:02 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:58:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] In browser page editing tools
References: <NDBBLMJFFACLCCGLPDJKEEIJKOAA.filip@netdesign.se>
Message-ID: <01c301c0f26d$abeee0d0$0b01a8c0@meg>

Hi all

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for tools which allow users to
edit webpages within a form.  I'm not after the backend part of it, purely
the page editing tools.  So something like eWebEditPro by Ektron.

Thanks in advance

Norman




From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Mon Jun 11 07:03:47 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 07:03:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Japanese characters in HTML q.
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90026C7082@severin.cursci.co.uk>

I've been following the Unicode discussion on slashdot for a few days now.

I'm not too sure about how useful this might be though. The information is
stored in XML as UTF-8 - I'm not sure if XSL can handle taking UTF-8 and
outputting as unicode.

I also noticed that I gave completely the wrong url. It should be
http://www.bocuma.com/tests/

-----Original Message-----
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
[mailto:martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com]
Sent: 11 June 2001 11:31
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Japanese characters in HTML q.


Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers
-------------------- Start of message text --------------------
Kerin
I understand that there are 2 UTF-8 type Japanese interpretations:
Shift-JIS (e.g. Google Japan) and EUC-JP (e.g. Yahoo Japan).
You might want to look at Unicode - there's an interesting debate
on whether it's useful or not going on rn:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/06/0132203&mode=thread
Cheers
Martin



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Mon Jun 11 07:14:17 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Mon Jun 11 07:14:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF 5.0 on Mandrake 8.0?
In-Reply-To: <000a01c0f063$008c7f10$0900000a@darrell>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEICELAINAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

Officially, we only support:

Red Hat Linux 6.2, 7.0 (Personal or Professional)
 SuSE Linux 7.0 (Personal or Professional)
 Cobalt Qube, RaQ 3, 4, XTR

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't get it to work on Mandrake... I
think. I'd try posting to the Linux forum at the CF Forums.
(forums.allaire.com)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:35 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CF 5.0 on Mandrake 8.0?
>
>
> Does anyone have any experience trying to install and run ColdFusion 5
> on Linux-Mandrake 8.0? Will it even work?
>
> /chris




From sqz1909 at nyu.edu  Mon Jun 11 07:32:38 2001
From: sqz1909 at nyu.edu (Sergej Zoubok)
Date: Mon Jun 11 07:32:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] More flexible auto-run option?
Message-ID: <p05100301b74a6a1db5ab@[192.168.1.3]>

Hi all,

I'm updating a promotional CD-ROM (PC/Mac hybrid). The first version 
used a utility called ShellRun (http://www.phdcc.com/shellrun/) to 
auto-run on Win9x/NT boxes. The CD has a simple HTML interface and 
the utility simply launched the start.html page in the user's default 
browser.

There was an annoying limitation, however. In addition to a variety 
of text-based information and PDF files, the CD contains a selection 
of freeware and shareware (all distributed with permission) Much of 
this cannot be launched directly from the interface given the 
limitations of html. The user is, instead, encouraged to explore a 
number of organized software directories on the CD. Unfortunately, 
when one clicks on the the CD icon in "My Computer" (as many users 
naturally do), the Shellrun launches the  browser again rather than 
displaying the directory tree. The user is forced to use Windows 
Explorer to explore the software directories.

What I'm looking for is a way to avoid this limitation. Can anyone 
suggest an alternative way to give the user a choice between 
launching the interface and simply exploring the files on the CD? As 
this is a small-scale promotional item (1000-2000 copies) for a 
non-profit organization, cost is an issue (i.e. I can't purchase 
Macromedia Director and create a whole Shockwave interface).

Thanks for your time.

Sergej


-- 



From thelist at lists.evolt.org  Mon Jun 11 08:27:44 2001
From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester)
Date: Mon Jun 11 08:27:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday 2001-Jun-04
Message-ID: <200106111328.HAA00844@alice.monkeyland.ca>

The tip harvest for the Week of Monday 2001-Jun-04 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

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From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Mon Jun 11 08:32:23 2001
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Mon Jun 11 08:32:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] More flexible auto-run option?
Message-ID: <173A17FC402611-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>

Ive done something similar by writing a small helper in C++ that does the 
launching etc.  You could add an explore feature.
Mine was heavily customized so its not worth sharing but take any simple
console program as a starter.  You will have to make it a trusted application
to avoid the save/download question.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sergej Zoubok [mailto:sqz1909 at nyu.edu]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:29 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] More flexible auto-run option?


Hi all,

I'm updating a promotional CD-ROM (PC/Mac hybrid). The first version 
used a utility called ShellRun (http://www.phdcc.com/shellrun/) to 
auto-run on Win9x/NT boxes. The CD has a simple HTML interface and 
the utility simply launched the start.html page in the user's default 
browser.





From eric.svee at attws.com  Mon Jun 11 09:01:10 2001
From: eric.svee at attws.com (Svee, Eric)
Date: Mon Jun 11 09:01:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] I guess Netscape 4.76 is no longer current....
Message-ID: <6D89C1569469D411A00A0008C7160CA9036F18F9@fws-msg01.mccaw-stg.com>

It doesn't work on IE 5.5 on NT 4 either . . .

Maybe they only want people running Opera?

<eg>

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Baratta [mailto:Anthony at Baratta.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:40 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] I guess Netscape 4.76 is no longer current....


http://www.workout.com/common/browsers.asp

If you visit this site with Netscape 4.x, you are directed to the above
page.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 09:07:49 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Mon Jun 11 09:07:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] I guess Netscape 4.76 is no longer current....
In-Reply-To: <6D89C1569469D411A00A0008C7160CA9036F18F9@fws-msg01.mccaw-stg.com>
Message-ID: <20010611140448.75714.qmail@web12103.mail.yahoo.com>

Worked with my IE 5.5 on NT 4.

--- "Svee, Eric" <eric.svee at attws.com> wrote:
> It doesn't work on IE 5.5 on NT 4 either . . .
> 
> Maybe they only want people running Opera?
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From scott.brady at homeqonline.com  Mon Jun 11 09:13:35 2001
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com (scott.brady at homeqonline.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 09:13:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] cflocation woes
Message-ID: <88256A68.004DC3A8.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>


 From what I understand, cfcookie won't set a cookie till the page is actually
displayed to the browser.  Using a cflocation prevents the page from ever
displaying on the browser, so you can't set a cookie (not even with <cfcookie>,
which seems kind of silly).

So, what you can do is use a javascript re-direct (which of course only works
for javascript-enabled browsers).

Or, you could try putting the cookie info into a session variable, then do the
cflocation, then set the cookie on the next page based on the Session variable's
information.

Scott





From ajohnson at mindseye.com  Mon Jun 11 09:45:10 2001
From: ajohnson at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson)
Date: Mon Jun 11 09:45:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] cflocation woes
In-Reply-To: <F120JSFsxf4yp8ARf3s0000bf11@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCIEJIDMAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>

hi Aaron,

Internally <cflocation> is sending a status code 302 to the browser and then
shoving the user to the new page... you can replicate this using CFHEADER
*AND* you can set a cookie:

	<!--- set your cookie --->
	<cfcookie name="myChocolateChipCookie" value="#someid#">
	<!--- now redirect the user to some page --->
	<cfheader statuscode="302" statustext="Object Temporarily Moved">
	<cfheader name="location"
value="http://#cgi.server_name#/default.cfm?asjksj=#createUUID()#">

You'll notice that I append a unique key to the redirect page. Nutscrape has
a nasty habit of actually showing the "Object Temporarily Moved" message to
end users, appending a unique key cures this.

HTH

Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
MINDSEYE, Inc.
<phn>617.350.0339
<fax>617.350.8884
<icq>66172567
ajohnson at mindseye.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Aaron Cole
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:30 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] cflocation woes
>
>
> I'm currently building a password-protected site that utilizes a simple
> cookie to track the user's id.
>
> The index page has a form for the user to enter her
> username/password.  The
> action page then performs an INSERT and sets a <cfcookie>.
>
> I finish off the action page with a <cflocation> which points back to the
> index page.
>
> For some reason the index page doesn't recognize the cookie.
> However, if I
> comment out the <cflocation> and use a simple href on the action
> page that
> has to be manually clicked, no problem.
>
> I thought it was a caching problem, but neither refreshing nor adding a
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="0"> tag does the trick.
>
> I'm at a loss.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> TIA,
> Aaron
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From sam at sam-i-am.com  Mon Jun 11 09:53:26 2001
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Mon Jun 11 09:53:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE 404 message?
References: <01c0f06a$693ed920$574a149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3B24DAE2.137A9B71@sam-i-am.com>

> >http://www.plinko.net/404/custom.asp#ie

I still get IE's "friendly error message" for 
 http://www.locahost.com/testing404.html
which is 2.999 bytes long. 

Could some of you try it and see if you can reproduce the problem?
(please use this url so I can filter the accesses out of my logs)

http://www.locahost.com/testing404.html 

Looking in my registry (following MS's
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q218/1/55.asp

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Internet
Explorer\Main\ErrorThresholds 

404 = 200. 

200 bytes. So what's up? I checked the response headers and I get this:

HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:52:39 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.9 (Unix)  (Red Hat/Linux)
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html

Which all looks fine to me... 

thanks
Sam
puzzled-i-am



From JSHarris at Clara.net  Mon Jun 11 10:00:02 2001
From: JSHarris at Clara.net (John Harris)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:00:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?
Message-ID: <01C0F28E.ED327A40.JSHarris@Clara.net>

Damn

-----Original Message-----
From:	Peter-Paul Koch [SMTP:gassinaumasis at hotmail.com]
Sent:	Monday, June 11, 2001 3:51 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org; XHTML-L at yahoogroups.com; JS-JIVE at yahoogroups.com
Subject:	Netscape quits?


Last week we all heard the rumour that Netscape quits developing browsers. 
I've reviewed the article that started the rumour and have found that at the 
moment there is no evidence at all for Netscape quitting the browser 
business. In fact, the article itself provides several clues from which we 
might conclude that Netscape will continue making browsers.

Read my reasoning at

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/articles/article1.html

ppk


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


__________________________________________________
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JS-Jive-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com. The message archives 
are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JS-Jive/messages 

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From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 11 10:05:06 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:05:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape quits?
Message-ID: <LAW2-F729BGTuAyHsjC00016797@hotmail.com>

Last week we all heard the rumour that Netscape quits developing browsers. 
I've reviewed the article that started the rumour and have found that at the 
moment there is no evidence at all for Netscape quitting the browser 
business. In fact, the article itself provides several clues from which we 
might conclude that Netscape will continue making browsers.

Read my reasoning at

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/articles/article1.html

ppk


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From Andy.Waite at company-net.com  Mon Jun 11 10:08:46 2001
From: Andy.Waite at company-net.com (Andy Waite)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:08:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE 404 message?
Message-ID: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AC@EXCHANGE>

Do you have it turned off here?
Tools > Options > Advanced > Show friendly HTTP error messages

--
Andy Waite <andy.waite at company-net.co.uk>
Database Web Developer, Company Net



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sam-I-Am [mailto:sam at sam-i-am.com]
>I still get IE's "friendly error message" for 
> http://www.locahost.com/testing404.html
>which is 2.999 bytes long. 
>



From eric at ohmforce.com  Mon Jun 11 10:11:37 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:11:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?
References: <01C0F28E.ED327A40.JSHarris@Clara.net>
Message-ID: <023901c0f287$6450d660$9701a8c0@fr>

Anyway, a bit OT, but I have tried Mozilla 0.9.1 on Win2k, and it rocks.
It is really fast in rendering and starting up. And in a 2 day's use as a
primary browser, it did not crash once.
The major drawback I found with the previous releases of Mozilla was speed,
and I find that this issue has been quite well resolved :).
Yet is still intended for computer-aware people. There's no installer and no
plugin bundle (flash&co) included. Just a big zip file.
http://www.mozilla.org/releases/
Praise the Moz team !

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: John Harris <JSHarris at Clara.net>
To: <JS-Jive at yahoogroups.com>; <thelist at lists.evolt.org>;
<XHTML-L at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?

> Damn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter-Paul Koch [SMTP:gassinaumasis at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:51 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org; XHTML-L at yahoogroups.com;
JS-JIVE at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Netscape quits?
> Read my reasoning at
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/articles/article1.html





From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Mon Jun 11 10:18:36 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:18:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90026C7092@severin.cursci.co.uk>

God yeah, Moz 0.9.1 is incredibly good.

<tip type="Mozilla 0.9.1">

If you start Moz, from the command line, add the -turbo switch [ie.
c:\program files\mozilla.org\mozilla\mozilla.exe -turbo].

This way, the core of Mozilla stays in memory after quitting, much like IE.
Mozilla starts up lightning fast from then on.

</tip>

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Cestari [mailto:eric at ohmforce.com]
Sent: 11 June 2001 16:01
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?


Anyway, a bit OT, but I have tried Mozilla 0.9.1 on Win2k, and it rocks.



From chris at completeimaging.com  Mon Jun 11 10:20:11 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:20:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?
In-Reply-To: <023901c0f287$6450d660$9701a8c0@fr>
Message-ID: <000201c0f289$bc35d5e0$0900000a@darrell>

There is an installer.

http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla0.9.1/mozilla-win32-0.9.1-install
er.exe

Or visit the site.

I must agree with the rest of the post though, this new build is very
nice. It even comes with a new look to set it apart from netscape 6. It
seems to be very stable and very fast. I definitely suggest giving it a
try.

/chris

> -----Original Message-----
> Anyway, a bit OT, but I have tried Mozilla 0.9.1 on Win2k, 
> and it rocks. It is really fast in rendering and starting up. 
> And in a 2 day's use as a primary browser, it did not crash 
> once. The major drawback I found with the previous releases 
> of Mozilla was speed, and I find that this issue has been 
> quite well resolved :). Yet is still intended for 
> computer-aware people. There's no installer and no plugin 
> bundle (flash&co) included. Just a big zip file. 
> http://www.mozilla.org/releases/ Praise the Moz team !
> 
> Eric




From kai at kaipahl.de  Mon Jun 11 10:21:31 2001
From: kai at kaipahl.de (Kai Pahl)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:21:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape quits?
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F729BGTuAyHsjC00016797@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B74AADE4.19E4B%kai@kaipahl.de>

hi!

> Last week we all heard the rumour that Netscape quits developing browsers.
> I've reviewed the article that started the rumour and have found that at the
> moment there is no evidence at all for Netscape quitting the browser
> business. In fact, the article itself provides several clues from which we
> might conclude that Netscape will continue making browsers.

i also think that the AOL-statement has more to do with the negotiation
underway with microsoft for AOL-presence in/on windows XP than 'leaving' the
browser-market.

coincendence or not, but the next major mozilla-step (mozilla 1.0) seems to
come not earlier than end of year... so enough time for AOL before needing
to push netscape 7 out of the door...

does anybody know when the release of AOL 7.0-software is expected?

bye
kai

--
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. Kai Pahl, Hamburg, Germany




From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Mon Jun 11 10:23:56 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:23:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <200106111523.f5BFNqt06939@leo.evolt.org>

Morning all!

We were discussing a plan here where we could determine the browser settings (640x480, 800x600, etc.), then deliver all of the graphics according to the size of the viewer's browser window allowing a consistent look, proportionally, in the most popular browser settings. Does anyone know of a method of doing this in ASP? I would like to be able to capture the variable at the beginning of the session and maintain that throughout. 

If push comes to shove I could capture the browser settings via ECMAScript and pass the variable information to ASP, but I would rather stick with an ASP solution if possible.

TIA,

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries, Inc.
1.800.820.HEAT x327
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From Andy.Waite at company-net.com  Mon Jun 11 10:30:37 2001
From: Andy.Waite at company-net.com (Andy Waite)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:30:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?
Message-ID: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AD@EXCHANGE>

Huh? Installers are available for win32 and Mac platforms on the releases
page.

--
Andy Waite <andy.waite at company-net.co.uk>
Database Web Developer, Company Net

>From: Eric Cestari [mailto:eric at ohmforce.com]
>Yet is still intended for computer-aware people. There's no 
>installer
>



From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Mon Jun 11 10:30:42 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:30:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP regex for catching text between "<?php" and "?>"
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FB68@BOOTROS>

Hi list,

Here's my current mission: Using PHP, find all occurrences of a string that
don't fall between "<?php" and "?>". 

Example: Given the string "hello <?php there ?> world <?php foo ?>",
generate an array with element 0 as "hello" and element 1 as "world".

I'm fairly sure that I need to use preg_match (www.php.net/preg-match) to
return my array, the bit I'm having problems with is forming the regex
properly. Not being much good in this department doesn't help :-)

Any kindly regex gurus feel like demonstrating their wizardry and giving me
a pointer?

Cheers
Jon


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
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From Andy.Waite at company-net.com  Mon Jun 11 10:30:50 2001
From: Andy.Waite at company-net.com (Andy Waite)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:30:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AE@EXCHANGE>

Those browser settings are not passed to the server in page requests, so as
you say you'll need some kind of client-side script solution to pass those
values to the server.

--
Andy Waite <andy.waite at company-net.co.uk>
Database Web Developer, Company Net

>-----Original Message-----
>From: J. Blanchard [mailto:jay.blanchard at thermon.com]
>We were discussing a plan here where we could determine the 
>browser settings (640x480, 800x600, etc.), then deliver all of 
>the graphics according to the size of the viewer's browser 
>window allowing a consistent look, proportionally, in the most 
>popular browser settings. Does anyone know of a method of 
>doing this in ASP? I would like to be able to capture the 
>variable at the beginning of the session and maintain that throughout. 
>
>If push comes to shove I could capture the browser settings 
>via ECMAScript and pass the variable information to ASP, but I 
>would rather stick with an ASP solution if possible.




From Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu  Mon Jun 11 10:32:47 2001
From: Stringers at LIBRARY.Vanderbilt.edu (Suellen Stringer-Hye)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:32:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] web hosting companies
In-Reply-To: <3B14F4FB.31161.684381@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B249CB4.31294.59061D@localhost>

A big thanks to anyone who responded to me earlier request for 
web hosting companies. I'm investigating many excellent 
suggestions now. 

<tip>
Even though a web hosting company advertises a backup and 
restore service, don't count on them being able to retrieve the 
necessary files, even though they claim to be able to. 
</tip> 



[SSH]
Hello, 

I am currently hosting a website at jumpline.com. I have recently 
had some difficulty with them and am possibly looking to move my 
website to a different hosting service. Can anyone recommend a 
web hosting service in the same price range? In particular, I have 
been dissatisfied with their customer support. Is this just the norm 
with web hosting companies or are there some that do better in 
this department? 


Suellen Stringer-Hye
Jean and Alexander Heard Library
Vanderbilt University
stringers at library.vanderbilt.edu



From sgd at ti3.com  Mon Jun 11 10:40:02 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:40:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492FCD@gate.ti3.com>

There is a component called BrowserHawk that may provide you with your
information:

http://www.browserhawk.com/

I'd go with a client side detection, then setting a cookie (or Session var),
but that's me....

sgd
--
thinksafely.org

> -----Original Message-----
> >From: J. Blanchard [mailto:jay.blanchard at thermon.com]
> >We were discussing a plan here where we could determine the 
> >browser settings (640x480, 800x600, etc.), then deliver all of 
> >the graphics according to the size of the viewer's browser 
> >
> >If push comes to shove I could capture the browser settings 
> >via ECMAScript and pass the variable information to ASP, but I 
> >would rather stick with an ASP solution if possible.



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Jun 11 10:40:12 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:40:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?
Message-ID: <OF5F993A4E.371E730B-ON80256A68.00558A79@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Moved. It's now
<http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla0.9.1/mozilla-win32-0.9.1-installer.exe>

Cheers
Martin




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Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

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cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] RE: Netscape quits?


There is an installer.

http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla0.9.1/mozilla-win32-0.9.1-install
er.exe


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
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From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Mon Jun 11 10:43:32 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:43:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP regex for catching text between "<?php" and "?>"
Message-ID: <OF0A31B9BF.C2241BAB-ON80256A68.0055C4D7@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Dunno about PHP, but Perl would be able to return everything before
the found string in the line as $` and everything after it as $'

And of course $1 $2 $3 for 'The first thing found matching the regexp',
'the second thing found' etc

Cheers
Martin





Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] PHP regex for catching text between "<?php" and "?>"


Hi list,

Here's my current mission: Using PHP, find all occurrences of a string that
don't fall between "<?php" and "?>".

Example: Given the string "hello <?php there ?> world <?php foo ?>",
generate an array with element 0 as "hello" and element 1 as "world".

I'm fairly sure that I need to use preg_match (www.php.net/preg-match) to
return my array, the bit I'm having problems with is forming the regex
properly. Not being much good in this department doesn't help :-)

Any kindly regex gurus feel like demonstrating their wizardry and giving me
a pointer?


--------------------- End of message text --------------------

The principal place of business of PricewaterhouseCoopers and its associate
partnerships is 1 Embankment Place, London WC2N 6NN where lists of the
partners' names are available for inspection. All partners in the associate
partnerships are authorised to conduct business as agents of, and all
contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
Accountants in England and Wales to carry on investment business.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
PricewaterhouseCoopers organisation.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.




From hup at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 11 10:49:27 2001
From: hup at telusplanet.net (hup at telusplanet.net)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:49:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHPSESSID sometimes not transparent
In-Reply-To: <20010611123628.3DD5251FCE@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B248EA9.12143.842E728@localhost>

I have PHP configured/compiled (with Apache on a WINbox) so 
that session IDs aren't shown in the URL(s).

It works for the most part, but occassionally PHPSESSID be 
shown.

ie., NORMALLY the page url shown in the location bar is: 
http://hup.ca/hup_pix.php
BUT sometimes I'll get: 
http://hup.ca/hup_pix.php?PHPSESSID=a324dff434etc

There doesn't seem to be any pattern to when its shown/not 
shown.. except perhaps if a link is clicked before the page is full 
loaded?

Any PHP experts know why this happens? How to prevent it? 



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Mon Jun 11 10:52:57 2001
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:52:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE 404 message?
References: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AC@EXCHANGE>
Message-ID: <3B24E8DA.C7B2C3A3@sam-i-am.com>

> Tools > Options > Advanced > Show friendly HTTP error messages

on. (checked). (this is the default?)

What's odd is that I get yahoo's 404 at http://www.yahoo.com/sdasdasd, 
same with a few other sites like amazon..

so I've no idea if it's just a problem with my browser, or something
other people might be seeing that I ought to do something about (since
the whole point of the site is basically that 404 page).
I was initially suspicious that my script might be returning odd headers
that was causing IE to gag.. but apparently no so.

One new suspicion - all the 404 pages that my IE does show have images.
So far all the html only ones get zapped.

I'll keep sniffing around.
thanks
Sam



From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Mon Jun 11 10:53:47 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:53:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP regex for catching text between "<?php" and "?>
	"
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FB6A@BOOTROS>

Yeah, PHP can do that with the preg_match() function, what I need is the
actual regex itself!

Cheers
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com
[mailto:martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com]
Sent: 11 June 2001 16:39
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] PHP regex for catching text between "<?php" and
"?>"



Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Dunno about PHP, but Perl would be able to return everything before
the found string in the line as $` and everything after it as $'

And of course $1 $2 $3 for 'The first thing found matching the regexp',
'the second thing found' etc

Cheers
Martin





Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  [thelist] PHP regex for catching text between "<?php" and "?>"


Hi list,

Here's my current mission: Using PHP, find all occurrences of a string that
don't fall between "<?php" and "?>".

Example: Given the string "hello <?php there ?> world <?php foo ?>",
generate an array with element 0 as "hello" and element 1 as "world".

I'm fairly sure that I need to use preg_match (www.php.net/preg-match) to
return my array, the bit I'm having problems with is forming the regex
properly. Not being much good in this department doesn't help :-)

Any kindly regex gurus feel like demonstrating their wizardry and giving me
a pointer?


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 11 10:54:02 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:54:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
In-Reply-To: <200106111523.f5BFNqt06939@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200106111554.f5BFs1t09573@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "J. Blanchard" <jay.blanchard at thermon.com>
[...]
> We were discussing a plan here where we could determine the browser
> settings (640x480, 800x600, etc.), then deliver all of the graphics
> according to the size of the viewer's browser window allowing a
> consistent look, proportionally, in the most popular browser settings.

well, some stuff the browser just doesn't make available to ASP 
applications, like screen size, window size, bit-depth, etc... you'll 
need some client-side scripting to capture that...

> Does anyone know of a method of doing this in ASP? I would like to be
> able to capture the variable at the beginning of the session and
> maintain that throughout. 

have you looked at Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I?
http://evolt.org/article/list/17/2295/index.html

it uses a combination of client-side JavaScript to capture the 
window size, screen size, and bit-depth, and then writes them out 
to a cookie for access by the ASP script...

granted, this tutorial ends up writing it all to a flat file, but that's not 
to say that you can't ditch that part, since the tutorial already 
shows you how to access that info from the cookie...

try it out, it should fit... but keep in mind the caveat, it works only 
on 4.x+ browsers with JS enabled... you should consider what the 
default page will be failing receiving any data, perhaps 640x480?

> If push comes to shove I could capture the browser settings via
> ECMAScript and pass the variable information to ASP, but I would
> rather stick with an ASP solution if possible.

not likely... Scott suggested BrowserHawk, which is keen, but i 
don't think will get you what you need...




From sgd at ti3.com  Mon Jun 11 11:05:52 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:05:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492FCF@gate.ti3.com>

> not likely... Scott suggested BrowserHawk, which is keen, but i 
> don't think will get you what you need...

Though I support the client-side solution to this, I recommend cruising the
BrowserHawk site, and check http://www.browserhawk.com/showbrow.asp --it
pulled up my screen width/height...

sgd



From Andy.Waite at company-net.com  Mon Jun 11 11:11:02 2001
From: Andy.Waite at company-net.com (Andy Waite)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:11:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AF@EXCHANGE>

And it done so using client-side script.

--
Andy Waite <andy.waite at company-net.co.uk>
Database Web Developer, Company Net


>Though I support the client-side solution to this, I recommend 
>cruising the
>BrowserHawk site, and check 
>http://www.browserhawk.com/showbrow.asp --it
>pulled up my screen width/height...
>
>sgd



From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Mon Jun 11 11:21:02 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:21:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEJKDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au>
Message-ID: <000701c0f292$5e21e300$d699043e@r3g4p8>

> How?  once you have hit the page, its too late isn't it?  your browser is
> already trying to download and render the page.  You're right, js can't
read
> your mind, nor can it determine whether you are colour blind or have poor
> eyesight.  I like the idea of letting the user choose, but the
> practicalities would be difficult.

I suppose you mean when users are coming from a search engine result and
when they are not at the front page of the site (then I can only recommend
js
or nothing)?

else ...

> Would it be possible to have a "gateway page" with various options, say
for
> blind users, to serve them up the same page in a different format? that
> could be achieved with server side code couldn't it?

Use a simple front page that let the user choose between different versions
of your site. If you don't like front pages, look at your stats and choose
the version which is most visited, make it the default one, and add visible
links on this version to other versions available...

> I don't think that would be possible using client side code? any thoughts?
Everything is possible, but it's imho not the most efficient way of doing
things. The first tool to learn would be ssi, then maybe php or asp or
coldfusion or zope if you dare...

With simple ssi you can do a lot allready.

This won't be a problem when the mindreader plugin will be available for
both netscape and ie though.

Philippe







From bev at enso-company.com  Mon Jun 11 11:27:07 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:27:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEJKDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au> <000701c0f292$5e21e300$d699043e@r3g4p8>
Message-ID: <017501c0f293$76325be0$a2b999cf@beverly8n5gg7i>

Hello.... I've ben lurking .... but now have a question....

I'm currently in very early stages of designing a site for a non profit
group called Sierra Services for the Blind.  I've been reading about all the
various visual and other access issues.  I like your idea of a gateway page.
If the gateway page is linked to the style page... could users return there
and shift from one format to the other,  or would you recommend another
solution.

Great list, by the way.

Thanks,
Bev
(yes, another Bev)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Jadin" <philippe.jadin at 123piano.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)


> > How?  once you have hit the page, its too late isn't it?  your browser
is
> > already trying to download and render the page.  You're right, js can't
> read
> > your mind, nor can it determine whether you are colour blind or have
poor
> > eyesight.  I like the idea of letting the user choose, but the
> > practicalities would be difficult.
>
> I suppose you mean when users are coming from a search engine result and
> when they are not at the front page of the site (then I can only recommend
> js
> or nothing)?
>
> else ...
>
> > Would it be possible to have a "gateway page" with various options, say
> for
> > blind users, to serve them up the same page in a different format? that
> > could be achieved with server side code couldn't it?
>
> Use a simple front page that let the user choose between different
versions
> of your site. If you don't like front pages, look at your stats and choose
> the version which is most visited, make it the default one, and add
visible
> links on this version to other versions available...
>
> > I don't think that would be possible using client side code? any
thoughts?
> Everything is possible, but it's imho not the most efficient way of doing
> things. The first tool to learn would be ssi, then maybe php or asp or
> coldfusion or zope if you dare...
>
> With simple ssi you can do a lot allready.
>
> This won't be a problem when the mindreader plugin will be available for
> both netscape and ie though.
>
> Philippe
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
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> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From djc at starkmedia.com  Mon Jun 11 11:27:43 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:27:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE 404 message?
References: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AC@EXCHANGE> <3B24E8DA.C7B2C3A3@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <3B24F04E.80001@starkmedia.com>

Sam -

Jumping into the middle of this thread, so I don't know if this has been 
mentioned.. Make sure your 404 page is larger than .5K

The default IE 404 page will show if its under .5 and it *should* show 
any 404 page witha  file size larger than that :)

.djc.

Sam-I-Am wrote:

>>Tools > Options > Advanced > Show friendly HTTP error messages
>>
> 
> on. (checked). (this is the default?)
> 
> What's odd is that I get yahoo's 404 at http://www.yahoo.com/sdasdasd, 
> same with a few other sites like amazon..
> 
> so I've no idea if it's just a problem with my browser, or something
> other people might be seeing that I ought to do something about (since
> the whole point of the site is basically that 404 page).
> I was initially suspicious that my script might be returning odd headers
> that was causing IE to gag.. but apparently no so.
> 
> One new suspicion - all the 404 pages that my IE does show have images.
> So far all the html only ones get zapped.





From sgd at ti3.com  Mon Jun 11 11:29:02 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:29:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492FD2@gate.ti3.com>

Agreed, but the nice thing is it's shrink wrap, and can be implemented
quickly, which gets the job done, yes?

=)
sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Waite [mailto:Andy.Waite at company-net.com]
> 
> And it done so using client-side script.
> 
> >http://www.browserhawk.com/showbrow.asp 



From Andy.Waite at company-net.com  Mon Jun 11 11:40:47 2001
From: Andy.Waite at company-net.com (Andy Waite)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:40:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5B0@EXCHANGE>

I agree, I was just pointing out that it doesn't have any 'magical' way of
getting that info. If you only need a small subset of BrowserHawk's
functionality, you could easily code it yourself.

--
Andy Waite <andy.waite at company-net.co.uk>
Database Web Developer, Company Net

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Dexter [mailto:sgd at ti3.com]
>Sent: 11 June 2001 17:26
>To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
>
>
>Agreed, but the nice thing is it's shrink wrap, and can be implemented
>quickly, which gets the job done, yes?
>
>=)
>sgd
>



From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Mon Jun 11 11:49:37 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Mon Jun 11 11:49:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
Message-ID: <200106111649.f5BGnYt13190@leo.evolt.org>

Hey aardvark, I had read your article prior to this, perhaps a week ago. I then did some research on environment variables and how they are passed to and fro'. Good stuff all around.

I included in this reseach some additional articles in various magazines and on-line sites. In my little group I made them aware of the actual viewable size of the window rather than screen settings. I should have been more clear that this is what we were looking for so that even if conversion had to be done "we could handle it in the math". 

(i.e if browser=MSIE then
        if width = 640 set width to 628
        else if width = 800 set width to 788
        end if
    end if
etc.)

I also informed my group that we should probably be more concerned with the 'width' attribute, since most of our pages will be more than one screen long. 

Unfortunately ASP provides know known method (to me) of capturing browser width, even though it can return many environment variables. 

So we will try the method suggested, have ECMAScript read the info, set a cookie with the info, and then retrieve that cookie info with ASP. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks all...very much!

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries, Inc.
1.800.820.HEAT x327
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From alex at ewanted.com  Mon Jun 11 12:01:57 2001
From: alex at ewanted.com (Alex Bello)
Date: Mon Jun 11 12:01:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] cflocation woes
References: <F120JSFsxf4yp8ARf3s0000bf11@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c0f297$025f2ff0$043214ac@alexbello>

If you have a page that sets a cookie and uses the CFLOCATION tag you have
noticed that the cookie never gets set.
The reason it does not get "set" is because the CFLOCATION tag bypasses the
HTTP protocol altogether to do the relocation.
There is a work around. Instead of redirecting a user with the CFLOCATION
tag you can use:

A regular HTTP meta refresh
<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT="0;
URL=http://NewPage.cfm?OptionalVariable=True">

JavaScript
<script>this.window.location="http://NewURL.com";</script>

ColdFusion
<CFCOOKIE NAME="someName" VALUE="someValue">
<CFHEADER NAME="Refresh" VALUE="0; URL=someURL.cfm">



----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Cole" <awcole72 at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:29 PM
Subject: [thelist] cflocation woes


> I'm currently building a password-protected site that utilizes a simple
> cookie to track the user's id.
>
> The index page has a form for the user to enter her username/password.
The
> action page then performs an INSERT and sets a <cfcookie>.
>
> I finish off the action page with a <cflocation> which points back to the
> index page.
>
> For some reason the index page doesn't recognize the cookie.  However, if
I
> comment out the <cflocation> and use a simple href on the action page that
> has to be manually clicked, no problem.
>
> I thought it was a caching problem, but neither refreshing nor adding a
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="0"> tag does the trick.
>
> I'm at a loss.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> TIA,
> Aaron
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 11 12:26:21 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Jun 11 12:26:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Check browser settings with ASP?
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172492FCF@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <200106111726.f5BHQKt17596@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Scott Dexter <sgd at ti3.com>
[...] 
> Though I support the client-side solution to this, I recommend
> cruising the BrowserHawk site, and check
> http://www.browserhawk.com/showbrow.asp --it pulled up my screen
> width/height...

BrowserHawk *is* using client-side script... that's the only way to 
get some of that info out of the current browsers... note this:

http://www.browserhawk.com/showbrow.asp

here's just one of the JS script blocks at the top of that page:

<script language="JavaScript">

<!--
function bhawkTest() {
  var bhfv = testFl();
  var je = 0;
  if (navigator.javaEnabled()) {je = 1;}
  var bhdir = isHere('application/x-director', 'Director', 'dcr');
  var bhqt = isHere('video/quicktime', 'QuickTime', 'mov');
  var bhsv = isHere('image/svg', 'Adobe SVG', 'svg');
  var bhcr = isHere('application/x-ssreportviewer-
plugin;version=7.0.100.1','Seagate Software Report', '');
  var bhvp = isHere('application/x-mtx','MetaStream', 'mtx');
  var bhaw = isHere('application/x-authorware-map','Authorware', 
'aam');
  var bhmg = isHere('application/x-mwf','MapGuide', 'mwf');
  var bhcx = isHere('application/x-ica','Citrix ICA', 'ica');
  var bhmp = isHere('application/x-mplayer2', 'Windows Media', '');
  if (!bhmp) bhmp = isHere('application/x-drm', 'Windows Media', '');
  var bhip = isHere('application/x-ipix', 'iPIX', 'ipx');
  var d = new Date();
  var bhtz = 4 - (d.getTimezoneOffset()/60);
  var bhdt = escape(d.toLocaleString());
  var bhdm = Date.parse(d.toGMTString());
   var bhjp = plugV('Java Plug', 1);
   var bhlu = navigator.language.toLowerCase();
  var rs = 
"bhfv="+bhfv+"&bhje="+je+"&bhdv="+bhdir+"&bhqt="+bhqt+"&bhsv
="+bhsv+"&bhcr="+bhcr+"&bhvp="+bhvp+"&bhaw="+bhaw+"&bhmg
="+bhmg+"&bhcx="+bhcx+"&bhmp="+bhmp+"&bhip="+bhip+"&bht
z="+bhtz+"&bhdt="+bhdt+"&bhdm="+bhdm+"&bhjp="+bhjp+"&bhlu
="+bhlu;
  if (document.cookie.indexOf("bhCookieSess=1") != -1) {
    document.cookie = "bhResults="+rs+"; path=/";
    document.cookie = "bhPrevResults="+rs+"; path=/";
    if (document.cookie.indexOf("bhResults") != -1)
      self.location.replace("/showbrow.asp?bhcp=1"); 
    else self.location.replace("/showbrow.asp?"+rs+"&bhqs=1");
  }
  else self.location.replace("/showbrow.asp?"+rs+"&bhqs=1");

}
// -->

</script>



From annie at twitch.ca  Mon Jun 11 12:39:01 2001
From: annie at twitch.ca (Annie)
Date: Mon Jun 11 12:39:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Log Off Prob w ASP
In-Reply-To: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5B0@EXCHANGE>
Message-ID: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONEEEGCAAA.annie@twitch.ca>

on our platform we have a 20 minute time limit of inactivity before the user
gets booted off, and we also prevent the same user from signing in
concurrently.

so what happens is if a user exits the browser in any other way besides
using the sign-off link they theoretically will be unable to sign back in
for 20 minutes.

But we have a bug I cannot find: sometimes they hang forever until i
manually boot them off.

Here's my question:
1. Is there any way to have ASP automatically log a user off when the
browser closes? IE and Nets.

2. If not, anyone have any idea what might be causing this problem?

Thanks!!

Annie




From rachelistarr at home.com  Mon Jun 11 12:47:41 2001
From: rachelistarr at home.com (Rachel Starr)
Date: Mon Jun 11 12:47:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: embedded flash movie pushes tables apart
Message-ID: <B74A4F56.F03%rachelistarr@home.com>

Thanks, it worked!




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Mon Jun 11 12:48:57 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Mon Jun 11 12:48:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape quits?
References: <LAW2-F729BGTuAyHsjC00016797@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <037401c0f29e$60364da0$3a069ad8@mef>

ppk,

Can you post your article on the evolt.org site as well?  Commentary/Society
would be a good place for it .. or even News.  It would be nice to have your
article, especially in contrast to the RIP Netscape article just posted.

Let me know if you need help with formatting.

Thanks,

Michele
on behalf of evolt admin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>; <XHTML-L at yahoogroups.com>;
<JS-JIVE at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:50 AM
Subject: [thelist] Netscape quits?


|
| Last week we all heard the rumour that Netscape quits developing browsers.
| I've reviewed the article that started the rumour and have found that at
the
| moment there is no evidence at all for Netscape quitting the browser
| business. In fact, the article itself provides several clues from which we
| might conclude that Netscape will continue making browsers.
|
| Read my reasoning at
|
| http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/articles/article1.html
|
| ppk





From mike at angloinfo.com  Mon Jun 11 12:50:41 2001
From: mike at angloinfo.com (Mike Hardaker)
Date: Mon Jun 11 12:50:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] europe domain names
In-Reply-To: <A7DB784F653FD311BBFB00500435FA9C01281556@mail>
Message-ID: <NEBBJMJABIFFPMOPKPNOCEOKCKAA.mike@angloinfo.com>

> As far as I know both France and Germany required a local contact for the
> domain as well as a local server (Belgium has recently relaxed it laws).

France essentially requires the registrant to have a French company with
fundamentally the same name as the domain requested...

Mike

-------------------
Mike Hardaker
Founder & Publisher
AngloINFO
www.angloinfo.com (Web)
wap.angloinfo.com (WAP)




From shinji at kuwayama.com  Mon Jun 11 13:56:38 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Mon Jun 11 13:56:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
Message-ID: <B74A7DF1.13D6%shinji@kuwayama.com>

Hi - I want to replace keywords in a string with a linked version of same,
like this:

<cfquery name="GetKeywords" datasource="theDatasource">
    select keyword, link
    from KeywordsTable
</cfquery>

<cfloop query="GetKeywords">
    <cfset string = Replace(string,"#keyword#",'<a
href="#link#">#keyword#</a>', "ALL")>
</cfloop>

It works okay, but my problem is this: when it loops back around, it will
find the keyword inside the titletext string and replace it, which wrecks
things.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 14:13:37 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:13:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <B74A7DF1.13D6%shinji@kuwayama.com>
Message-ID: <20010611191035.2599.qmail@web12103.mail.yahoo.com>

Where is this titletext string you are talking about?

I assume what's happening is on the first pass you
change something to <a href="#link#">#keyword#</a>,
but on the second pass it'll repeat and change it to
<a href="#link#"><a href="#link#">#keyword#</a></a>?

Is that so?

Sarah

--- Shinji Kuwayama <shinji at kuwayama.com> wrote:

> It works okay, but my problem is this: when it loops
> back around, it will
> find the keyword inside the titletext string and
> replace it, which wrecks
> things.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From MMcAtee at philamuseum.org  Mon Jun 11 14:19:08 2001
From: MMcAtee at philamuseum.org (McAtee, Malcolm)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:19:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE:Linux Install ---:~(
Message-ID: <3CB23A9F8C3DD511BC2500508BC74133281122@MAILHOST>


Thank you everyone for their previous help -- 

I went and bought a book on Red Hat Linux server 7.0 this weekend.
I have been trying to install 7.0 on a machine that has an existing 5.2
install.
I have created a boot disk and I have booted to the Linux 7.0 cdrom that was
included with the book as well as the cdrom
Which has the iso image that I downloaded from RedHat's site
And I receive the following error using both:

" Invalid or Corrupt Kernel Image"

Do I need to upgrade the Kernel?? 
Are both my cdroms corrupted?? (possible but not likely)

Help please----!

Malcolm



From shinji at kuwayama.com  Mon Jun 11 14:23:43 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:23:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <20010611191035.2599.qmail@web12103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B74A8446.1412%shinji@kuwayama.com>

on 6/11/01 2:10 PM, sarah at disaster7 at yahoo.com wrote:

> Where is this titletext string you are talking about?
> 
> I assume what's happening is on the first pass you
> change something to <a href="#link#">#keyword#</a>,
> but on the second pass it'll repeat and change it to
> <a href="#link#"><a href="#link#">#keyword#</a></a>?
> 
> Is that so?

Yes - with "titletext" I meant to refer to the #link# string. Yes, that is
what happens; when it loops around, it replaces strings inside the #link#,
which I want it to ignore. How would you suggest I approach this?

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 14:33:48 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:33:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <B74A8446.1412%shinji@kuwayama.com>
Message-ID: <20010611193046.88851.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com>

<cfloop query="GetKeywords">
    <cfif FindNoCase(x,theString) is not 0>
	<cfset theString = ReplaceNoCase(theString,x,'<a
href="#link#"><cfoutput>#x#</cfoutput></a>',"ALL")>
    </cfif>	
</cfloop>

This works, however, if say one of your keywords is
"age" and theString contains "average", a link will
get tacked onto the "age" part of average. I tried to
think of a way around this, but nothing popped into my
head at the moment. I'll try to see if I can find
something, but hopefully that'll help you for now.


--- Shinji Kuwayama <shinji at kuwayama.com> wrote:
> on 6/11/01 2:10 PM, sarah at disaster7 at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Where is this titletext string you are talking
> about?
> > 
> > I assume what's happening is on the first pass you
> > change something to <a
> href="#link#">#keyword#</a>,
> > but on the second pass it'll repeat and change it
> to
> > <a href="#link#"><a
> href="#link#">#keyword#</a></a>?
> > 
> > Is that so?
> 
> Yes - with "titletext" I meant to refer to the
> #link# string. Yes, that is
> what happens; when it loops around, it replaces
> strings inside the #link#,



__________________________________________________
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 14:35:08 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:35:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <20010611193046.88851.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010611193207.78629.qmail@web12108.mail.yahoo.com>

And I forgot, change x to keyword.

Sarah

--- sarah <disaster7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> <cfloop query="GetKeywords">
>     <cfif FindNoCase(x,theString) is not 0>
> 	<cfset theString = ReplaceNoCase(theString,x,'<a
> href="#link#"><cfoutput>#x#</cfoutput></a>',"ALL")>
>     </cfif>	
> </cfloop>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From shinji at kuwayama.com  Mon Jun 11 14:38:43 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:38:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <20010611193046.88851.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B74A87CF.141C%shinji@kuwayama.com>

on 6/11/01 2:30 PM, sarah at disaster7 at yahoo.com wrote:

> <cfloop query="GetKeywords">
> <cfif FindNoCase(x,theString) is not 0>
> <cfset theString = ReplaceNoCase(theString,x,'<a
> href="#link#"><cfoutput>#x#</cfoutput></a>',"ALL")>
> </cfif> 
> </cfloop>

Works great. I was hoping it would be that simple. Thanks a lot!

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Jun 11 14:52:44 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 14:52:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Special Chicago Opportunity
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B80@arnold.bedrock.com>

yo,

Another opp.

There will be more. But perhaps we could check on plane and train fares...

Free is good. Service is better. Love is great. 8)

-r


| -----Original Message-----
| From: sales at iibiz.com [mailto:sales at iibiz.com]
| Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:29 AM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: [thelist] Special Chicago Opportunity
| 
| 
| Morning all!
| 
| I hope you've seen me post enough to know I wouldn't spam 
| this list, but I
| have a wonderful opportunity for anyone in the field that lives in the
| Chicago area and want to make sure all you great people get 
| included if
| interested.
| 
| Deal is:
| 
| If you help "administer" for one day at Internet World here 
| from July 10th
| to 13th, you get a FREE pass for ALL FOUR days to forums and 
| conferences!
| That's a $1095 value!  You can check out the conferences and 
| offerings at
| http://www.internetworld.com/chicago2001
| 
| Feel free to contact me offlist at sandy at iibiz.com for more 
| details and I'll
| let you know who to contact.
| 
| These are things I usually don't get to attend because of the 
| steep price
| tag, and I figured there's more of you out there too!
| 
| Sandy
| 
| <tip type="trade shows">
| You can find some excellent deals on those expensive computer 
| books at some
| computer trade shows........be sure to bring your checkbook 
| or credit cards!
| </tip>
| 
| 
| 
| 
| ---------------------------------------
| For unsubscribe and other options, including
| the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
| http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
| 



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Jun 11 15:08:44 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 15:08:44 2001
Subject: Spam. was: RE: [thelist] Special Chicago Opportunity
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B81@arnold.bedrock.com>

All,

Oops. Hard weekend. Aren't the best things in life always so?

Can I mitigate?

<tip type="Usability and Design">
Getting a holistic view of the work of an organization and it's users is
preeminent if a quality and accurate model of the tasks to be supported or
streamlined are being developed. To this end, developing a consolidated view
of the work is a major step in such a design. 

Data driven, a number of models can be formed from the structure of work,
flow of information, artifacts employed in support, physical stage, and
cultural influence through inquiry and observation. These models are
subsequently summarized in consolidated models, which include all the
relevant issues and items to the work performed. So, issues as discussed in
"Lost in the Matrix"
(http://evolt.org/article/Lost_in_the_Matrix/4090/9047/index.html) can be
redefined in the terms of user context with more precise specification while
preserving identification and acceptance by users by covering the whole of
the task. Hypothetical engineering artifacts, usually added for sake of
"future extensibility" or simply because the developers are not in the mood
for user requirements can be concretely unsubstantiated through this potent
method of data-driven fact-oriented design. Ideally, both your users and the
developers will love you insofar as you have dealt with justice the needs of
each, and served them by doing so.

For better coverage, check out Hugh Beyer and Karen Holtzblatt's book:
"Contextual Design. Defining Customer-Centered Systems," Morgan Kaufman
publishers.
</tip>




From wolfboy69 at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 11 15:16:04 2001
From: wolfboy69 at earthlink.net (Michael Wolfe)
Date: Mon Jun 11 15:16:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHPSESSID sometimes not transparent
In-Reply-To: <3B248EA9.12143.842E728@localhost>
References: <20010611123628.3DD5251FCE@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010611131603.00a93b30@mail.earthlink.net>

At 09:26 AM 6/11/01 +0000, you wrote:
>I have PHP configured/compiled (with Apache on a WINbox) so
>that session IDs aren't shown in the URL(s).
>
>It works for the most part, but occassionally PHPSESSID be
>shown.
>
>ie., NORMALLY the page url shown in the location bar is:
>http://hup.ca/hup_pix.php
>BUT sometimes I'll get:
>http://hup.ca/hup_pix.php?PHPSESSID=a324dff434etc
>
>There doesn't seem to be any pattern to when its shown/not
>shown.. except perhaps if a link is clicked before the page is full
>loaded?
>
>Any PHP experts know why this happens? How to prevent it?

In PHP4, if a cookie can't be set, if the session times out, or if the 
connection is lost, PHP will send the session ID in the URL in order to 
refresh the session.

___________________
Michael Wolfe
Senior Software Engineer

http://www.ework.com
mwolfe at ework.com




From ritternd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 15:23:24 2001
From: ritternd at yahoo.com (Chase Ritter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 15:23:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE:Linux Install ---:~(
In-Reply-To: <3CB23A9F8C3DD511BC2500508BC74133281122@MAILHOST>
Message-ID: <20010611202022.69759.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com>

I had Red Hat 5.2 installed and upgraded to 7.0 and
didn't have any problems. Is 5.2 server also? That
might be a problem. But as I said, I dont know because
I upgraded just fine. Wish I could help more, 
Chase

--- "McAtee, Malcolm" <MMcAtee at philamuseum.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thank you everyone for their previous help -- 
> 
> I went and bought a book on Red Hat Linux server 7.0
> this weekend.
> I have been trying to install 7.0 on a machine that
> has an existing 5.2
> install.
> I have created a boot disk and I have booted to the
> Linux 7.0 cdrom that was
> included with the book as well as the cdrom
> Which has the iso image that I downloaded from
> RedHat's site
> And I receive the following error using both:
> 
> " Invalid or Corrupt Kernel Image"
> 
> Do I need to upgrade the Kernel?? 
> Are both my cdroms corrupted?? (possible but not
> likely)
> 
> Help please----!
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Mon Jun 11 15:32:35 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Mon Jun 11 15:32:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is there a solution for this?
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D281D555B@flash>

I received this email today, and I was wondering if anyone on the list had
some input on this problem...

If lack of internet access is the issue, is it possible to go the embedded
HTML route?  If the firewall permitted outgoing connections, would it work?

Here is the message I received:

"We have been struggling in looking into other options for doing electronic
surveys (for us it is important we can do the survey through email without
the need at the end-user to install software) but it looks like it is going
to be tough (which means chapeau to your product).

It looks like we have found a company which can write something for us from
scratch.

BUT the only thing we want/need is an extra feature added to surveymonkey:
send the survey in HTML (or Word) directly to the receivers instead of an
email with a URL to answer the survey.
This is caused by the fact that big companies in the Neteherlands (our main
customers) often make email to their employees available but NOT Internet
access!

Conclusion: I would love to use your product but I am stucked with the fact
that people need Internet/Intranet access. (I prefer also to use your
services instead of buying a 'licence' which we have to run on our own
servers - you probably understand the product technical wise better then we
do!)."

Thanks for any input,

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Mon Jun 11 15:46:20 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Mon Jun 11 15:46:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
References: <NCBBLHBCELHIICJKLEFNIEJKDLAA.mark.cheng@ranger.com.au> <000701c0f292$5e21e300$d699043e@r3g4p8> <017501c0f293$76325be0$a2b999cf@beverly8n5gg7i>
Message-ID: <000f01c0f2b7$730c5960$0f99043e@r3g4p8>

> I'm currently in very early stages of designing a site for a non profit
> group called Sierra Services for the Blind.  I've been reading about all
the
> various visual and other access issues.  I like your idea of a gateway
page.
> If the gateway page is linked to the style page... could users return
there
> and shift from one format to the other,  or would you recommend another
> solution.

I guess there are plenty solutions. This is +- the same problem when doing
multilingual sites.

You could use a cookie and update it if the user change his choice. You
could choose the version based on a directory :

www.site.com/text/site

www.site.com/fullhtml/site

www.site.com/flash/site ...

etc...

You'll probably get better answers than this one...

Philippe






From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Mon Jun 11 15:56:25 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Mon Jun 11 15:56:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is there a solution for this?
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A06FCF93F@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Ryan,


I sent you some stuff offlist - but realized other folks might find this
interesting as well.

Some old buddies of mine in Ohio have developed a site to "help out" folks
who have email access but not web access ... it's called "pagegetter.com".

[I found it particularly useful myself last year when wanting to search some
job ads without leaving a log trail through monster.com at the office.]

Check it out - give it a whirl - it's an interesting concept that just might
be applicable here.

Tell 'em I survived the storm and said "Howdy"!      ;-)

HTH,

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Finley [mailto:RyanF at SonicFoundry.com]
This is caused by the fact that big companies in the Neteherlands (our main
customers) often make email to their employees available but NOT Internet
access!



From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Mon Jun 11 16:16:31 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Mon Jun 11 16:16:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Is there a solution for this?
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D281D555D@flash>

<<
Some old buddies of mine in Ohio have developed a site to "help out" folks
who have email access but not web access ... it's called "pagegetter.com".

[I found it particularly useful myself last year when wanting to search some
job ads without leaving a log trail through monster.com at the office.]

Check it out - give it a whirl - it's an interesting concept that just might
be applicable here.
>>

It is very cool...but my main concern is getting the data back to my server.
I'm not very knowledgable about firewalls, and it seems to me that is a
company is blocking internet access, then they'd block port 80.  In this
case, the only way to get data back would be thru an email reply.

If I was to accept email replies, then I'd need to have a custom parsing
routine which could extract data from an email message.  This could be very
error prone...but it might be acceptable.

Is there any kind of listmanager software that let's you "plug in" your own
code?

Sort of like how the evolt list adds a "[thelist]" to the subject...but in
this case, letting me extract the data and insert into a database.

Thanks,

	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 11 16:33:06 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon Jun 11 16:33:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Keyboard breakdown
Message-ID: <LAW2-F90XcbdFkIm0OT000042f8@hotmail.com>

Hello,

Coming home just now and eagerly starting up my computer to read the
interesting mails about the Netscape article, I found out that my keyboard 
had fouled up completely. For some reason it doesn't recognize some of the 
keys I hit and makes them other keys (F, for instance, becomes Caps Lock). 
Sometimes it refuses any input and seems to think Alt is pressed all the 
time.

I didn't change anything, except for uninstalling IE5.5 a few days ago
(without any problems, until now). Fortunately my old Win 3.1 computer is 
still available, so I started it up and am now typing this mail.

Does anyone have the faintest idea what's going on and how to solve this?

Thanks in advance,

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 16:33:26 2001
From: navin_dhanuka at yahoo.com (Navin Dhanuka)
Date: Mon Jun 11 16:33:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photo of Ramus Lerdof.
In-Reply-To: <20010611162806.7C82CABC@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPOEENCCAA.navin_dhanuka@yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone,

I am writing an article Titled "Lets do PHP!".
Can someone get me a photo of Rasmus Lerdof.
I found it long back. It was his homepage. But i cannot recollect the URL.
If anybody knows about it, then please tell.

Navin Dhanuka

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From joshua at alphashop.net  Mon Jun 11 16:47:21 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Mon Jun 11 16:47:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Photo of Ramus Lerdof.
In-Reply-To: <LFELIIPJGPCJIKJMBKPPOEENCCAA.navin_dhanuka@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LNEFJPKEAGHBMOBAJOCNCEIKCAAA.joshua@alphashop.net>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Rasmus+Lerdorf&btnG=Google
+Search

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Navin Dhanuka
Subject: [thelist] Photo of Ramus Lerdof.


Hi Everyone,

I am writing an article Titled "Lets do PHP!".
Can someone get me a photo of Rasmus Lerdof.
I found it long back. It was his homepage. But i cannot recollect the URL.
If anybody knows about it, then please tell.

Navin Dhanuka




From skaiser at skdesigns.com  Mon Jun 11 16:50:01 2001
From: skaiser at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Mon Jun 11 16:50:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Keyboard breakdown
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F90XcbdFkIm0OT000042f8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010611144457.036684d0@pop3.midtown.net>

Peter-Paul,

I'll throw in three possibilities that I've experienced with unusual 
assortments of letters and keyboard peculiarities just in case one of them 
helps.

In Windows 98SE if you have too many fonts installed, strange things can 
occur like this with your keyboard, too. Uninstalling some of the fonts and 
getting the number down can be one solution if that's the cause. It 
especially shows up with strange replacements of letters in browser windows 
but also does it with the keyboard. Strange indeed.

I have a wireless keyboard for my main computer, and I notice that if 
something dense comes between the keyboard and the little receiver that it 
will type strange keys. At first thought the battery was getting low in the 
keyboard, but that wasn't the case. Moving the keyboard or the dense object 
is a simple fix.

Low memory on the computer can also occasionally cause this problem. Of 
course, restarting (warm boot) or sometimes a full shutdown and starting it 
again (cold boot) of the computer fixes that.

Warmly,
Shirley
--
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html

At 02:30 PM 06/11/2001, ppk wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Coming home just now and eagerly starting up my computer to read the
>interesting mails about the Netscape article, I found out that my keyboard 
>had fouled up completely. For some reason it doesn't recognize some of the 
>keys I hit and makes them other keys (F, for instance, becomes Caps Lock). 
>Sometimes it refuses any input and seems to think Alt is pressed all the time.
>
>I didn't change anything, except for uninstalling IE5.5 a few days ago
>(without any problems, until now). Fortunately my old Win 3.1 computer is 
>still available, so I started it up and am now typing this mail.
>
>Does anyone have the faintest idea what's going on and how to solve this?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>ppk




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Mon Jun 11 17:01:06 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Mon Jun 11 17:01:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Keyboard breakdown
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F90XcbdFkIm0OT000042f8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010611174622.01bbcec0@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 09:30 PM 6/11/01 +0000, Peter-Paul Koch bequeathed such 
tales as these:

>Hello,
>
>Coming home just now and eagerly starting up my computer to read the
>interesting mails about the Netscape article, I found out that my keyboard 
>had fouled up completely. For some reason it doesn't recognize some of the 
>keys I hit and makes them other keys (F, for instance, becomes Caps Lock). 
>Sometimes it refuses any input and seems to think Alt is pressed all the time.
>
>I didn't change anything, except for uninstalling IE5.5 a few days ago
>(without any problems, until now). Fortunately my old Win 3.1 computer is 
>still available, so I started it up and am now typing this mail.
>
>Does anyone have the faintest idea what's going on and how to solve this?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>ppk
How old is your keyboard?  It sounds as if it may have died, I have had a 
few just give up and fail and since they are so cheap I just toss them and 
replace them.  Not very environmental but troubleshooting a keyboard 
hardware wise just isn't worth it.  Your keyboard controller may be faulty, 
is the keyboard a PS/2, AT, USB, or cordless?  How old is your 
computer?  Too many fonts can sometimes be the culprit too.  If you can 
start up fine then in win98 go to start/programs/accessories/system 
tools/system information/tools/ and run system file checker as there may be 
a glitch with windows itself.  HTH
Peter Kaulback




From poojie at dccnet.com  Mon Jun 11 17:24:56 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Mon Jun 11 17:24:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calculating Times in PHP
Message-ID: <001b01c0f2c5$31b3a5f0$4ae6e6cf@strung>

Hello,

I'm attempting to time functions in PHP, but I keep getting
negative values. I use the following function to get the time
before and after the function I want to time has been called:

function time_now(){
    list($usec, $sec) = explode(" ",microtime());
    return ((float)$usec + (float)$sec);
}

The timing code looks something like this:

$t_start = time_now();     // Start Time
func_to_time();                // Some action
$t_end = time_now();      // End Time

$t_total = $t_end  - $t_start; // Total time passed

How is it possible that roughly 1/2 of the result times turn up
negative?


Daryl




From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Jun 11 17:38:11 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 17:38:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Lists Functionality
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B87@arnold.bedrock.com>

All,

On thinking of the possible benefits of mistakes (why? 8), I began to wonder
if there may be a way to be a little more flexible with email lists. For
instance, is there list software which would allow one to send a follow-up
message within a certain time limit to correct errors in the email recently
submitted or recall it entirely? Think of the 7 second delay that most
broadcast stations impose on the live feeds to catch anything which could do
damage of one sort or another. Is this currently possible with any list
(majordomo-style) software?

<rory disposition="curious"/>



From blastronaut at excite.com  Mon Jun 11 17:51:16 2001
From: blastronaut at excite.com (Michael McGlynn)
Date: Mon Jun 11 17:51:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
Message-ID: <30396862.992299685329.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>

HI,
Every time i start my TCP connection, there seems to be a lot of traffic
before i even launch the browser or Outlook. Today there was an application
failure, and and application called

athomee.exe

failed. It lives in C://WINDOWS/SYSTEM and has no version information. A
Google seach revealed a log entry, but not much else, and nothing on
Microsoft's site:

1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Indonesia
Inte
1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; MSOCD;
AtHomeE

Is this a bad thing? Trojan horse?

??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





From poojie at dccnet.com  Mon Jun 11 18:04:27 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:04:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
References: <30396862.992299685329.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>
Message-ID: <005b01c0f2ca$b9e370e0$4ae6e6cf@strung>

Are you using @Home by any chance: athomee = At Home.

I don't know much about @Home specifically, but I assume
athomee.exe is used for proprietary login system. The activity when
you first connect is probably just your computer logging into the
network and renewing it's "lease". In other words, nothing to worry
about.

Daryl





From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Jun 11 18:20:12 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:20:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B89@arnold.bedrock.com>

Michael,

It is my limited understanding that this is part of the @Home customized
UserAgent string in your browser. You may be able to make a file with the
following code in it and load to your browser:

-----------------------begin file--
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script language="Javascript1.1">
document.write("navigator.userAgent: "+navigator.userAgent);
</script>
</head>

<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">

</body>
</html>
-----------------------end file----

for an accurate description of your UserAgent string.

<snip>
| 1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 
| 98; Indonesia
| Inte
| 1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 
| 98; MSOCD;
| AtHomeE
| 
| Is this a bad thing? Trojan horse?
</snip>

<rory disposition="happily"/>



From ritternd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 18:32:42 2001
From: ritternd at yahoo.com (Chase Ritter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:32:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B89@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <20010611232943.29192.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com>

How can you load things into your browser? Im sorry
for trying to change the subject, but that caught my
eye.


--- Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> It is my limited understanding that this is part of
> the @Home customized
> UserAgent string in your browser. You may be able to
> make a file with the
> following code in it and load to your browser:
> 
> -----------------------begin file--
> <html>
> <head>
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
> charset=iso-8859-1">
> <script language="Javascript1.1">
> document.write("navigator.userAgent:
> "+navigator.userAgent);
> </script>
> </head>
> 
> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
> 
> </body>
> </html>
> -----------------------end file----
> 
> for an accurate description of your UserAgent
> string.
> 
> <snip>
> | 1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE
> 5.5; Windows 
> | 98; Indonesia
> | Inte
> | 1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE
> 5.5; Windows 
> | 98; MSOCD;
> | AtHomeE
> | 
> | Is this a bad thing? Trojan horse?
> </snip>
> 
> <rory disposition="happily"/>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From genghis at members.evolt.org  Mon Jun 11 18:34:32 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:34:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Lists Functionality
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B87@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNMENPCAAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of
> Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com
> Sent: 11 June 2001 23:38
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Lists Functionality
>
>
> All,
>
> On thinking of the possible benefits of mistakes (why? 8), I
> began to wonder
> if there may be a way to be a little more flexible with email lists. For
> instance, is there list software which would allow one to send a follow-up
> message within a certain time limit to correct errors in the
> email recently
> submitted or recall it entirely?

Yup - but it really slows down the flow.  Check out the
concept of holding for moderation / auto approval after
a set period if not rejected.  Listar does it, for one.
And I'd be amazed if Listar does it and Mailman can't...

<tip type="Fan-fucking-tastic, NT, mail servers">
Xmail!  It's like Sendmail!  It was written for NT but
has been ported to *nix!  It can add users on the fly!
It's GPL!  It does lists too!

I just found it today, and I'm kicking myself.

http://www.xmailserver.org
</tip>

<tip type="List servers, NT">
Lyris is free if your lists have fewer than 200 members.
Web-based admin and NNTP gateway included as standard.
Automatic management of bounced messages. k3w1.

http://www.lyris.com
</tip>

One of these days we'll finish that Win32 port of Mailman.

I promise it'll come out about the same time as Majorgumbo
if at all possible.  Heh

jh




From jcrawford at avencom.com  Mon Jun 11 18:41:07 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:41:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calculating Times in PHP
References: <001b01c0f2c5$31b3a5f0$4ae6e6cf@strung>
Message-ID: <3B25563A.92B9FEFC@avencom.com>

Poojie wrote:
> I'm attempting to time functions in PHP, but I keep getting
> negative values. I use the following function to get the time
> before and after the function I want to time has been called:
> 
> function time_now(){
>     list($usec, $sec) = explode(" ",microtime());
>     return ((float)$usec + (float)$sec);
> }
> 
> The timing code looks something like this:
> 
> $t_start = time_now();     // Start Time
> func_to_time();                // Some action
> $t_end = time_now();      // End Time
> 
> $t_total = $t_end  - $t_start; // Total time passed
> 
> How is it possible that roughly 1/2 of the result times turn up
> negative?


No idea - have you tried the code from here verbatim?
http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.microtime.php -- it looks similar
but not the same to yours. Does it also generate negative values?

	- Joe
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 18:43:28 2001
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:43:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Calculating Times in PHP
Message-ID: <20010611234026.35059.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Daryl,

Try subtracting the timestamp time first, before formatting it in any
way.

Jon.
----------------------------------------------------
"Hello,

I'm attempting to time functions in PHP, but I keep getting
negative values. I use the following function to get the time
before and after the function I want to time has been called:

function time_now(){
    list($usec, $sec) = explode(" ",microtime());
    return ((float)$usec + (float)$sec);
}

The timing code looks something like this:

$t_start = time_now();     // Start Time
func_to_time();                // Some action
$t_end = time_now();      // End Time

$t_total = $t_end  - $t_start; // Total time passed

How is it possible that roughly 1/2 of the result times turn up
negative?


Daryl"
--------------------------------------


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From secarica at fx.ro  Mon Jun 11 18:45:48 2001
From: secarica at fx.ro (Cristian Secara)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:45:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
Message-ID: <003301c0f2d0$83c7c280$e9dce7c1@ess.ro>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:48:05 -0700 (PDT), Michael McGlynn wrote:

>Today there was an application
>failure, and and application called athomee.exe failed.
>It lives in C://WINDOWS/SYSTEM and has no version information.

I am using WinME and no such file exists on my computer (neither
directory).

Best wishes,
    Cristi






From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Jun 11 18:54:02 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 18:54:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8A@arnold.bedrock.com>

Hi Chase,

I am not sure how the more savvy do it, but I like to use notepad, cut and
paste the code to it and save as a file on my desktop. Then I just hit the
Flying Windows Key and the 'D' key at the same time to expose the desktop on
my screen and double click that new file. That may deserve a tip, and
feeling as my spam earlier needs even more compensation, here goes:

<tip type="Working Smarter with Windows">
At the risk causing a sigh from the stout and intelligent Mac and *nix, etc,
users out there, us poor Windows users need all the tips we can get to
maximize productivity. So, while a finger is parked on the Flying Windows
key on the newer style keyboards, press:

D -- to minimize all windows and set the focus to the desktop. Great for
keyboard access to your desktop icons,
F -- to Find (Yep, still works in > 2k, where the theme has been switched to
"Search"),
E -- to bring up Explorer,
M -- to minimize all your windows (your focus disappears),
Tab -- cycles through the windows in the task bar
R -- brings up the run... dialog
U -- For accessibility utilities (Win 2k, maybe others)

I like to use the Windows key-Tab to target that window I want to close,
press enter and Alt-F4 to close it fast.
</tip>

<rory disposition="ready to go home" alt="8)"/>


| -----Original Message-----
| From: Chase Ritter [mailto:ritternd at yahoo.com]
| Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:30 PM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: RE: [thelist] Windows ME issue
| 
| 
| How can you load things into your browser? Im sorry
| for trying to change the subject, but that caught my
| eye.
| 



From judah at wiredotter.com  Mon Jun 11 19:10:18 2001
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:10:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <20010611193046.88851.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <B74A8446.1412%shinji@kuwayama.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010611170430.02461180@mail2.alphashop.com>

At 12:30 PM 6/11/01 -0700, sarah wrote:
><cfloop query="GetKeywords">
>     <cfif FindNoCase(x,theString) is not 0>
>         <cfset theString = ReplaceNoCase(theString,x,'<a
>href="#link#"><cfoutput>#x#</cfoutput></a>',"ALL")>
>     </cfif>
></cfloop>
>
>This works, however, if say one of your keywords is
>"age" and theString contains "average", a link will
>get tacked onto the "age" part of average. I tried to
>think of a way around this, but nothing popped into my
>head at the moment. I'll try to see if I can find
>something, but hopefully that'll help you for now.

Instead of using FindNoCase you could use REFindNoCase to do a regular 
expression search that match the keyword surrounded by spaces.  I apologize 
for not providing the regular expression at the moment, but I'm a bit brain 
dead.

Hope this helps.

Judah




From ritternd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 19:14:38 2001
From: ritternd at yahoo.com (Chase Ritter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:14:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with J and VB Script
Message-ID: <20010612001140.89016.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com>

Can anyone give me tips on where to start learning
this scripting langs. I know a little Javascript, but
I want to get into VB. Tips, hints, and websites would
be helpful, 
Thx
Chase 

__________________________________________________
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Mon Jun 11 19:27:18 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:27:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with J and VB Script
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>

Hi Chase,

Thanks for doing the service of asking questions! Makes this a great list.

<tip type="VB Resources on the Web">
The following web sites are great community hubs in the VB developer world.

http://www.vb2themax.com
http://www.vbwire.com
http://www.pinnaclepublishing.com/vb
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/default.asp
http://www.mvps.org/vbnet/

As for VB related to ASP:
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com
http://www.15Seconds.com
http://www.ASP101.com
http://www.ASPFAQs.com
http://www.ASPWire.com

Oh, yea, a good Google search is _never_ far away!
http://www.google.com/search?q=vb+developer

</tip>

<rory disposition="still working"/>

<snip>
| 
| Can anyone give me tips on where to start learning
| this scripting langs. I know a little Javascript, but
| I want to get into VB. Tips, hints, and websites would
| be helpful, 
</snip>



From ritternd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 19:40:44 2001
From: ritternd at yahoo.com (Chase Ritter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:40:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with J and VB Script
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <20010612003745.25448.qmail@web13103.mail.yahoo.com>

sweet! ill be set for a week!
Since I am now in love with this list. I could use
help on WML, I am interested in that, and some DHTML.
Come on guys, you can do it!
Thanks much
Chase

--- Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com wrote:
> Hi Chase,
> 
> Thanks for doing the service of asking questions!
> Makes this a great list.
> 
> <tip type="VB Resources on the Web">
> The following web sites are great community hubs in
> the VB developer world.
> 
> http://www.vb2themax.com
> http://www.vbwire.com
> http://www.pinnaclepublishing.com/vb
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/default.asp
> http://www.mvps.org/vbnet/
> 
> As for VB related to ASP:
> http://www.4guysfromrolla.com
> http://www.15Seconds.com
> http://www.ASP101.com
> http://www.ASPFAQs.com
> http://www.ASPWire.com
> 
> Oh, yea, a good Google search is _never_ far away!
> http://www.google.com/search?q=vb+developer
> 
> </tip>
> 
> <rory disposition="still working"/>
> 
> <snip>
> | 
> | Can anyone give me tips on where to start learning
> | this scripting langs. I know a little Javascript,
> but
> | I want to get into VB. Tips, hints, and websites
> would
> | be helpful, 
> </snip>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From sqz1909 at nyu.edu  Mon Jun 11 19:44:44 2001
From: sqz1909 at nyu.edu (Sergej Zoubok)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:44:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] More flexible auto-run option?
In-Reply-To:  <173A17FC402611-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>
References: <173A17FC402611-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>
Message-ID: <p05100300b74b15184bb1@[192.168.1.3]>

>Ive done something similar by writing a small helper in C++ that does the
>launching etc.  You could add an explore feature.
>Mine was heavily customized so its not worth sharing but take any simple
>console program as a starter.  You will have to make it a trusted application
>to avoid the save/download question.

Thanks for the quick response! Unfortunately, the only programming I 
do is in Perl (I'm hoping to tackle Java this summer but not in time 
for this project). Can anyone suggest another alternative? I did come 
across some other inexpensive auto-run utilities but none have the 
flexibility I need.

Thanks again,

Sergej





>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sergej Zoubok [mailto:sqz1909 at nyu.edu]
>Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:29 AM
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] More flexible auto-run option?
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm updating a promotional CD-ROM (PC/Mac hybrid). The first version
>used a utility called ShellRun (http://www.phdcc.com/shellrun/) to
>auto-run on Win9x/NT boxes. The CD has a simple HTML interface and
>the utility simply launched the start.html page in the user's default
>browser.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


-- 



From poojie at dccnet.com  Mon Jun 11 19:47:24 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:47:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calculating Times in PHP
References: <001b01c0f2c5$31b3a5f0$4ae6e6cf@strung> <3B25563A.92B9FEFC@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c0f2d9$1ca2a4e0$4ae6e6cf@strung>

quote (from Joe):
------------------------------------------------
No idea - have you tried the code from here verbatim?
http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.microtime.php -- it looks
similar
but not the same to yours. Does it also generate negative values?
------------------------------------------------

The function I am using is exactly the same as getmicrotime() -- I
just use a different name. I just did a test with the exact code in
that example and it does not produce negative values. That must
mean something else is going on in the function I am timing.

Is it possible that caching is the culprit?


Daryl




From poojie at dccnet.com  Mon Jun 11 19:47:59 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Mon Jun 11 19:47:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Calculating Times in PHP
References: <20010611234026.35059.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c0f2d9$30bbc150$4ae6e6cf@strung>

quote (from jon):
------------------------------------------------
Try subtracting the timestamp time first, before formatting it in
any
way.
------------------------------------------------


Can you give me an example of this?

Daryl




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Mon Jun 11 20:11:20 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Mon Jun 11 20:11:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
In-Reply-To: <30396862.992299685329.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010611205817.00a34db0@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 03:48 PM 6/11/01 -0700, Michael McGlynn bequeathed such 
tales as these:
>HI,
>Every time i start my TCP connection, there seems to be a lot of traffic
>before i even launch the browser or Outlook. Today there was an application
>failure, and and application called
>
>athomee.exe
>
>failed. It lives in C://WINDOWS/SYSTEM and has no version information. A
>Google seach revealed a log entry, but not much else, and nothing on
>Microsoft's site:
>
>1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Indonesia
>Inte
>1          0.00%  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; MSOCD;
>AtHomeE
>
>Is this a bad thing? Trojan horse?
It's likely a component of an @Home application.  If you ctrl-alt-del when 
you're not connected is it running in the background or does it get loaded 
at start-up?  If it's the latter then go to Start/Run/msconfig and check to 
see if it's included in your startup group, if it is then uncheck it and 
see if you can connect to the internet after you reboot.  If you can't 
connect then you have to enable it again.
Peter Kaulback




From ritternd at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 20:21:15 2001
From: ritternd at yahoo.com (Chase Ritter)
Date: Mon Jun 11 20:21:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows shortcut problem.
Message-ID: <20010612011813.60585.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>

In a previous email someone sent, they mentioned the
shortcut of Windows Key + D to minimize all windows.
Well I experimented with other keys and found that
when I hit Windows Key + E, explorer crashes, but
everything is ok, I just get the error. What does
Windows Key + E do and how could i maybe fix that.

__________________________________________________
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From merlene at cgocable.net  Mon Jun 11 20:57:05 2001
From: merlene at cgocable.net (Merlene Blacha)
Date: Mon Jun 11 20:57:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows shortcut problem.
In-Reply-To: <20010612011813.60585.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GMEALFIHHJPAGOKCEFPKMEPIJIAA.merlene@cgocable.net>

Windows key + E should open your file explorer window. It's my most used
shortcut by far.

HTH,
Merlene

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Chase Ritter
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:18 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Windows shortcut problem.
>
>
> In a previous email someone sent, they mentioned the
> shortcut of Windows Key + D to minimize all windows.
> Well I experimented with other keys and found that
> when I hit Windows Key + E, explorer crashes, but
> everything is ok, I just get the error. What does
> Windows Key + E do and how could i maybe fix that.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Mon Jun 11 23:45:48 2001
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Mon Jun 11 23:45:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for June 11, 2001
Message-ID: <200106120445.f5C4jht13143@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for June 11, 2001

RIP Netscape  by: anj
http://evolt.org/article/headlines/1/11422/index.html


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From LeeStewart at bigfoot.com  Tue Jun 12 00:12:03 2001
From: LeeStewart at bigfoot.com (Lee Stewart)
Date: Tue Jun 12 00:12:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] RE: Windows ME issue
In-Reply-To: <20010611212954.6CE34A67@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <BHEDLLPJFABBFBAIOHGOEEHGCHAA.LeeStewart@bigfoot.com>

> Every time i start my TCP connection, there seems to be a lot of traffic
> before i even launch the browser or Outlook. Today there was an
> application failure, and and application called
> athomee.exe

Is that the name of that SETI @home screensaver?  Are you looking for ET?
The screensaver may be trying to download some signal data from the Arecibo
Radio Telescope or uploading results to their database...

http://www.seti.org/science/setiathome.html



--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Lee Stewart               StripedCow Technology Group, Inc.
http://www.stripedcow.com          advanced web development





From awcole72 at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 12 00:57:34 2001
From: awcole72 at hotmail.com (Aaron Cole)
Date: Tue Jun 12 00:57:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF
Message-ID: <F122XRPmcarcR4ZDgC800005ea6@hotmail.com>

I'm trying to recreate a feature I've seen on a lot of sites where you get a 
dynamic record count.  So, if there are 5 pictures in a set and you're 
viewing the third one, it will say 3 of 5.

I thought I had it figured out by using #CurrentRow# of #RecordCount#.

Alas, no.

When I output this I get all five possibilities at once.  Arrgh!! So close.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

TIA,
Aaron
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From joshua at alphashop.net  Tue Jun 12 01:18:09 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Jun 12 01:18:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF
In-Reply-To: <F122XRPmcarcR4ZDgC800005ea6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LNEFJPKEAGHBMOBAJOCNEEJBCAAA.joshua@alphashop.net>

Aaron,

when you use <cfoutput> you will get outputted everything within the
recordset.  So, even if you use #CurrentRow# of #RecordCount# you will
indeed get:

1 of 5
2 of 5
3 of 5
4 of 5
5 of 5

So, if you are passing in the url somehow which record you are currently
viewing, say ?num=4, then add the following attributes to the <cfoutput>
tag--startrow and maxrows.  The resulting code will look something like
this:

<cfoutput query="myquery" startrow="#url.num#" maxrows="1">
  <cfif currentrow GT 1>
    <a href="#cgi.script_name#/?num=#Val(url.num - 1)#">&lt; Prev</a>
  </cfif>

  #CurrentRow# of #RecordCount#

  <cfif currentrow LT recordcount>
    <a href="#cgi.script_name#/?num=#Val(url.num + 1)#">Next &gt;</a>
  </cfif>
</cfoutput>

This will cause the output to only include the one record pointed to by the
url attributes.

Does this answer your questions?

-joshau

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF


I'm trying to recreate a feature I've seen on a lot of sites where you get a
dynamic record count.  So, if there are 5 pictures in a set and you're
viewing the third one, it will say 3 of 5.

I thought I had it figured out by using #CurrentRow# of #RecordCount#.

Alas, no.

When I output this I get all five possibilities at once.  Arrgh!! So close.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

TIA,
Aaron




From poojie at dccnet.com  Tue Jun 12 01:32:19 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Tue Jun 12 01:32:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Calculating Times in PHP [the resolution]
References: <20010611234026.35059.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c0f2d9$30bbc150$4ae6e6cf@strung>
Message-ID: <000f01c0f309$4bfb9cd0$4ae6e6cf@strung>

Hello me (and everyone wanting the resolution to this problem),

I traced the problem back to the original microtime function:

code:
-------------------------------------------
function time_now(){
    list($usec, $sec) = explode(" ",microtime());
    return ((float)$usec + (float)$sec);
}
-------------------------------------------

$sec is the amount of seconds (a whole number)
$usec is the amount of time below 1 second (a decimal number)

For some reason, occationally $usec would "turn-over" (ie: 0.998,
0.999, 0.000) but $sec would not increase by one at the same time.
So, when I ran this code:

code:
-------------------------------------------
$t_start = time_now();     // Start Time
func_to_time();                // Some action
$t_end = time_now();      // End Time

$t_total = $t_end  - $t_start; // Total time passed
-------------------------------------------

$t_start would actually be greater than $t_end .

Anyhoo, I fixed this by making my own time_now() function:

code:
-------------------------------------------
function time_now(){
    $time = gettimeofday();
    return ((float)$time['usec']/1000000);
}
-------------------------------------------

...which returns values similar to 321.01234 (321 seconds +
0.01234). My version of time_now() is good for timing up 999.999999
seconds, which is way more than enough for benchmarking.


Daryl






From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 12 03:20:35 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Tue Jun 12 03:20:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Keyboard breakdown
Message-ID: <LAW2-F109IIZS2TRqf6000139d7@hotmail.com>

>How old is your keyboard?  It sounds as if it may have died,

Actually, it worked fine but the mappings were all wrong. Anyway, I 
reinstalled IE5.5 and that did the trick: keyboard working fine again. Thank 
you, Microsoft, for one more unforgettable user experience.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Tue Jun 12 03:46:41 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Tue Jun 12 03:46:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF/SQL syntax error
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIFLCCKJPIPBDKNBHCEOEDBAA.robin@rhastings.net>
Message-ID: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIEEAPCIAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>


> >My best guess is that they are using a column name of "date".  
> Try changing the
> >column name  to something like "theDate".

I use "dated".

> The date column was exactly the problem - I decided to make an 
> executive decision and change the name of the field.

Bookmark and print this out: Reserved words in MS Access
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q109/3/12.asp

Useful to have nearby...


isaac
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
0414 758 000 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au



From winfried at huslik.de  Tue Jun 12 05:16:26 2001
From: winfried at huslik.de (Winfried Huslik)
Date: Tue Jun 12 05:16:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHPSESSID sometimes not transparent
Message-ID: <E159l9p-0007ua-00@mrvdom02.schlund.de>

The SESSID is 
- always shown if there is not yet a session with that ID 
  (i.E. when the session starts) and 
- always if a cookie can't be set (i.E.) cookies are disabled

Winfried Huslik

www.owad.de


On 2001-06-11 11:26 Uhr, hup at telusplanet.net (hup at telusplanet.net) wrote:

>I have PHP configured/compiled (with Apache on a WINbox) so 
>that session IDs aren't shown in the URL(s).
>
>It works for the most part, but occassionally PHPSESSID be 
>shown.
>
>ie., NORMALLY the page url shown in the location bar is: 
>http://hup.ca/hup_pix.php
>BUT sometimes I'll get: 
>http://hup.ca/hup_pix.php?PHPSESSID=a324dff434etc
>
>There doesn't seem to be any pattern to when its shown/not 
>shown.. except perhaps if a link is clicked before the page is full 
>loaded?
>
>Any PHP experts know why this happens? How to prevent it? 
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From blastronaut at excite.com  Tue Jun 12 08:12:38 2001
From: blastronaut at excite.com (Michael McGlynn)
Date: Tue Jun 12 08:12:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
Message-ID: <31656361.992351371748.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>

Good insight. Funny thing is, I don't use At Home in any way, I have a dial
up connect through Prodigy. I DO use Excite's web based email and portal
page, but should I expext THAT to download an .exe file to my machine? If
so, I am not pleased about it.

<snippet>
I don't know much about @Home specifically, but I assume
athomee.exe is used for proprietary login system. The activity when
you first connect is probably just your computer logging into the
network and renewing it's "lease". In other words, nothing to worry
about.
</snippet>


??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Tue Jun 12 08:39:23 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Tue Jun 12 08:39:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
Message-ID: <OF7D062A58.2C5DFF73-ON80256A69.0046B7DB@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

Philippe

I think you're right - it is similar to the translation issue.

One thought though - rather than having separate URLs for different version
(although this is useful for testing purposes), would it not be more
consistent
for users to have the same URL which simply rendered differently based on
user preferences?

Martin





Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   thelist at lists.evolt.org
cc:


Subject:  Re: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)


> I'm currently in very early stages of designing a site for a non profit
> group called Sierra Services for the Blind.  I've been reading about all
the
> various visual and other access issues.  I like your idea of a gateway
page.
> If the gateway page is linked to the style page... could users return
there
> and shift from one format to the other,  or would you recommend another
> solution.

I guess there are plenty solutions. This is +- the same problem when doing
multilingual sites.

You could use a cookie and update it if the user change his choice. You
could choose the version based on a directory :

www.site.com/text/site

www.site.com/fullhtml/site

www.site.com/flash/site ...


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From tom at clickvisuals.com  Tue Jun 12 09:10:05 2001
From: tom at clickvisuals.com (Tom Busch)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:10:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Windows ME issue
In-Reply-To: <31656361.992351371748.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010612090217.00a44da0@mail.clickvisuals.com>

Just delete the file since it is not needed for windows and make sure that 
there isn't a call for it to be loaded when windows starts up using 
msconfig and it will take care of that part.  After that, do regedit and go 
to hkey_local_machine/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run to make 
sure that it doesn't start when Windows does.

At 06:09 AM 6/12/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Good insight. Funny thing is, I don't use At Home in any way, I have a dial
>up connect through Prodigy. I DO use Excite's web based email and portal
>page, but should I expext THAT to download an .exe file to my machine? If
>so, I am not pleased about it.
>
><snippet>
>I don't know much about @Home specifically, but I assume
>athomee.exe is used for proprietary login system. The activity when
>you first connect is probably just your computer logging into the
>network and renewing it's "lease". In other words, nothing to worry
>about.
></snippet>
>
>
>??????????????????
>michael mcglynn
>interface designer
>??????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Send a cool gift with your E-Card
>http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


Tom Busch, Web Developer
Click! Visuals (920) 490-3210
http://www.clickvisuals.com/





From smo at plus2net.com  Tue Jun 12 09:21:53 2001
From: smo at plus2net.com (Subhendu Mohapatra)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:21:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
Message-ID: <01b001c0f34a$93793ea0$51bb09ca@celeron433>

Hello,
           How can I refresh a portion of a page. I am displaying a cricket
score in my site where all text, images everything remains same and only the
present score = ###   where the ### should refresh and get the value from
the server ( say from a database ) in every one second. I don't want to
refresh the whole page to display the current value of score. While reading
the text ( content ) of the page this value only should dynamically keep on
changing.

           I am not getting the idea on how to start. I know ASP ( or it can
be any thing )

Regards,
Subhendu Mohapatra
Freelance web designer
 www.plus2net.com





From colin_mitchell at wgbh.org  Tue Jun 12 09:35:13 2001
From: colin_mitchell at wgbh.org (Colin Mitchell)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:35:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
References: <01b001c0f34a$93793ea0$51bb09ca@celeron433>
Message-ID: <00b801c0f34c$751be3c0$df0a7d0a@slabchin>

Sounds like a call for a Java applet, or (I suppose) Flash or Shockwave.

But the larger question for me is, why not just do it as a page that
reloads?  I don't know much about cricket, but do you really need
to-the-second updates of the score?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Subhendu Mohapatra" <smo at plus2net.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:16 AM
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page


> Hello,
>            How can I refresh a portion of a page. I am displaying a
cricket
> score in my site where all text, images everything remains same and only
the
> present score = ###   where the ### should refresh and get the value from
> the server ( say from a database ) in every one second. I don't want to
> refresh the whole page to display the current value of score. While
reading
> the text ( content ) of the page this value only should dynamically keep
on
> changing.
>
>            I am not getting the idea on how to start. I know ASP ( or it
can
> be any thing )
>
> Regards,
> Subhendu Mohapatra
> Freelance web designer
>  www.plus2net.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Tue Jun 12 09:36:38 2001
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:36:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Copy/Paste a DW navigation bar error
Message-ID: <1738F7BA245584-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>

When I try to paste a copy of a navigation bar I get a series of errors "cannot
copy the set navbar image behavior..". Can anyone tell me what Im doing wrong?
Im using 4.01.  sorry this is a newbie...




From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com  Tue Jun 12 09:41:39 2001
From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:41:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
References: <01b001c0f34a$93793ea0$51bb09ca@celeron433>
Message-ID: <00ff01c0f34d$66b76420$0301a8c0@FSODOM>

You could do this using frames and setting a meta tag redirect to the same
page after a set period of time in one of the frames.  Though I am no expert
on cricket, every second would probably be a bit too often.  Perhaps every
minute or more to keep the load down on the server.

Norman
www.craftedsolutions.com

>            How can I refresh a portion of a page. I am displaying a
cricket
> score in my site where all text, images everything remains same and only
the
> present score = ###   where the ### should refresh and get the value from
> the server ( say from a database ) in every one second. I don't want to
> refresh the whole page to display the current value of score. While
reading
> the text ( content ) of the page this value only should dynamically keep
on
> changing.

> Subhendu Mohapatra





From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Tue Jun 12 09:41:44 2001
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:41:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
Message-ID: <1738F4802522-01@Department_of_Energy_E-Mail_Security_Server>

sounds like an application for remote scripting.  try this versus the MS version
http://www.ashleyit.com/rs 

-----Original Message-----
From: Subhendu Mohapatra [mailto:smo at plus2net.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:16 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page


Hello,
           How can I refresh a portion of a page. I am displaying a cricket
score in my site where all text, images everything remains same and only the
present score = ###   where the ### should refresh and get the value from
the server ( say from a database ) in every one second. I don't want to
refresh the whole page to display the current value of score. While reading
the text ( content ) of the page this value only should dynamically keep on
changing.

           I am not getting the idea on how to start. I know ASP ( or it can
be any thing )

Regards,
Subhendu Mohapatra
Freelance web designer
 www.plus2net.com



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From brad at beldamar.com  Tue Jun 12 09:45:04 2001
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:45:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
In-Reply-To: <00b801c0f34c$751be3c0$df0a7d0a@slabchin>
Message-ID: <JPEMLKOLODBKBPOONFCLCEMECEAA.brad@beldamar.com>

Subhendu,
If you use frames you could just refresh one frame that 
contains the data you want to update.

Brad Miller



From john.pye at purplehouse.com  Tue Jun 12 09:47:49 2001
From: john.pye at purplehouse.com (John Pye)
Date: Tue Jun 12 09:47:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
In-Reply-To: <01b001c0f34a$93793ea0$51bb09ca@celeron433>
Message-ID: <NEBBLCMIGMEBKICGDGPGIEFICLAA.john.pye@purplehouse.com>

Three ideas for you Subhendu:

1. You could use the microsoft data access components - but that would only
work with IE4+

2. Otherwise maybe try a IFRAME or ILAYER or FRAME or LAYER within your page
to download a reduced part of the page. You would have to detect Netscape or
IE browsers and use the approriate tag.

3. You could use a very small empty frame at the bottom of the page with
some javascript in it, reloading itself every couple of seconds. This
javascript could re-write the value in the main page using e.g.
parent.frames[1].window.document.form.score.value="100/3". To be compatible
with earlier browsers, that part of the page would have to be an INPUT box
though. I think this solution would work almost all browsers with
Javascript -- but requires frames.

Does that help?


John Pye
http://www.creativebase.com/
+44 (0)20 7258 6900


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Subhendu Mohapatra
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:16 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page


Hello,
           How can I refresh a portion of a page. I am displaying a cricket
score in my site where all text, images everything remains same and only the
present score = ###   where the ### should refresh and get the value from
the server ( say from a database ) in every one second. I don't want to
refresh the whole page to display the current value of score. While reading
the text ( content ) of the page this value only should dynamically keep on
changing.

           I am not getting the idea on how to start. I know ASP ( or it can
be any thing )

Regards,
Subhendu Mohapatra
Freelance web designer
 www.plus2net.com



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !






From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Tue Jun 12 10:01:34 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Tue Jun 12 10:01:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
Message-ID: <200106121501.f5CF1Wt28792@leo.evolt.org>

I know that I will get flamed for this, but in the olden days we used a small frame which was reloaded with a meta refresh tag. This is still an *gasp* option...although [disclaimer] I do not recommend the use of frames anymore. However, I do still see it as appropriate in the proper circumstance.

You could also use *can be just as annoying* a small pop-up window that is refreshed the same way.

Either of these requires very little to no special scripting and will work over slow connections where Flash, Shockwave, or Java may be a problem.

Happy coding!

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries, Inc.
1.800.820.HEAT x327
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 10:45:10 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 10:45:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJMJABIFFPMOPKPNOCEOKCKAA.mike@angloinfo.com>
Message-ID: <LAEEILOKLLCKKDGBEPDHOEPICAAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

Lets say I want to write a file and then read it on the same cold fusion
page.  When I do this it gives me a can not access file because it is in use
error.  This is because it trys to read the file while the above code
(cfexecute not cffile) is writing to the file.  I can get around this by
creating a loop in between that creates a slight pause in the logic.  I was
wondering if anybody knows a better way to do this.
Thanks,
Josh


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From kuwayama at apte.com  Tue Jun 12 10:45:40 2001
From: kuwayama at apte.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Tue Jun 12 10:45:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
Message-ID: <200106121144.AA474415604@apte.com>

I take it back; this still isn't working the way I'd like it to.

<cfloop query="getTerms">
    <cfif FindNoCase('#term#',varcopy) is not 0>
		<cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,'#term#','<a href="http:///term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm" title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")>
    </cfif>	
</cfloop>

As before, when it loops back around, it'll find and replace strings inserted on the previous pass, for example in the title="#definition#" area.



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Tue Jun 12 11:08:35 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:08:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
In-Reply-To: <LAEEILOKLLCKKDGBEPDHOEPICAAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIMEDLIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

I'm not sure what you mean. I have no problems writing to a file and then
reading it.

<CFFILE ACTION="Write" FILE="e:\web\testingzone\test.txt" OUTPUT="Ray">

<CFFILE ACTION="Read"  FILE="e:\web\testingzone\test.txt" VARIABLE="Test">

<CFDUMP VAR="#Test#">

This works just fine. It displays Ray on screen. (If you don't have CF5,
change CFDUMP to <CFOUTPUT>#Test#</CFOUTPUT>)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:53 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
>
>
> Lets say I want to write a file and then read it on the same cold fusion
> page.  When I do this it gives me a can not access file because
> it is in use
> error.  This is because it trys to read the file while the above code
> (cfexecute not cffile) is writing to the file.  I can get around this by
> creating a loop in between that creates a slight pause in the
> logic.  I was
> wondering if anybody knows a better way to do this.
> Thanks,
> Josh
>




From mmamata at eth.net  Tue Jun 12 11:14:45 2001
From: mmamata at eth.net (Subhendu)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:14:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
References: <200106121501.f5CF1Wt28792@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <01df01c0f358$80d3a700$51bb09ca@celeron433>

Sorry  it is my mistake for not mentioning that I don't want to use frames.
This is also not a good solution as I will be changing three digits inside a
rows of texts. All other parts will be constant and will not be reloading.

Some rows here...........
 This is the fixed portion of the row.  ###  . This is next fixed portion of
the row.
  Another row.....................

Only ### should change.

I have seen this some where just searching for that... That will explain my
requirement.
Regards,
Subhendu Mohapatra
Freelance web designer
 www.plus2net.com

> I know that I will get flamed for this, but in the olden days we used a
small frame which was reloaded with a meta refresh tag. This is still an
*gasp* option...although [disclaimer] I do not recommend the use of frames
anymore. However, I do still see it as appropriate in the proper
circumstance.
>
> You could also use *can be just as annoying* a small pop-up window that is
refreshed the same way.
>
> Either of these requires very little to no special scripting and will work
over slow connections where Flash, Shockwave, or Java may be a problem.
>
> Happy coding!





From joshsquared at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 11:16:40 2001
From: joshsquared at yahoo.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:16:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
In-Reply-To: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIMEDLIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <LAEEILOKLLCKKDGBEPDHIEPJCAAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>

> Lets say I want to write a file and then read it on the same cold fusion
> page.  When I do this it gives me a can not access file because
> it is in use
> error.  This is because it trys to read the file while the above code
> (cfexecute not cffile) is writing to the file.  I can get around this by
> creating a loop in between that creates a slight pause in the
> logic.  I was
> wondering if anybody knows a better way to do this.

--- Here is a clarification of my problem ---

My problem is that the writing that is done to the txt file is not done by
CFFile.
Here is my code.

<CFOUTPUT>
	<CFEXECUTE name="c:\Imail\adduser.exe"
				arguments=" -u #form.account#"
				outputfile="emailOut.txt"> <!--- the executable is writing to the .txt
file --->
	</CFEXECUTE>
</CFOUTPUT>



<!--- Now while the executable is still writing coldfusion tries to open the
file.  It has done its job by calling the executable and begins to move down
the code.  It does not know that it needs to wait for the executable to
finish.  Ofcourse this all happens in fractions of a second.  So is there a
good way to make a fraction of a second pause so the executable can
inish.  --->

<CFFILE ACTION="Read"
    FILE="emailOut.txt"
    VARIABLE="Message">

Thanks,
Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Raymond Camden
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:07 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion


I'm not sure what you mean. I have no problems writing to a file and then
reading it.

<CFFILE ACTION="Write" FILE="e:\web\testingzone\test.txt" OUTPUT="Ray">

<CFFILE ACTION="Read"  FILE="e:\web\testingzone\test.txt" VARIABLE="Test">

<CFDUMP VAR="#Test#">

This works just fine. It displays Ray on screen. (If you don't have CF5,
change CFDUMP to <CFOUTPUT>#Test#</CFOUTPUT>)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:53 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
>
>
> Lets say I want to write a file and then read it on the same cold fusion
> page.  When I do this it gives me a can not access file because
> it is in use
> error.  This is because it trys to read the file while the above code
> (cfexecute not cffile) is writing to the file.  I can get around this by
> creating a loop in between that creates a slight pause in the
> logic.  I was
> wondering if anybody knows a better way to do this.
> Thanks,
> Josh
>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Tue Jun 12 11:20:30 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:20:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
In-Reply-To: <LAEEILOKLLCKKDGBEPDHIEPJCAAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEICEDOIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

You need to add a timeout value. If you don't use TIMEOUT, ColdFusion calls
the process and doesn't wait for it to end. So, by adding a timeout, you can
make CF wait for the process to end.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Josh Spiegel
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:25 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
>
>
> > Lets say I want to write a file and then read it on the same cold fusion
> > page.  When I do this it gives me a can not access file because
> > it is in use
> > error.  This is because it trys to read the file while the above code
> > (cfexecute not cffile) is writing to the file.  I can get around this by
> > creating a loop in between that creates a slight pause in the
> > logic.  I was
> > wondering if anybody knows a better way to do this.
>
> --- Here is a clarification of my problem ---
>
> My problem is that the writing that is done to the txt file is not done by
> CFFile.
> Here is my code.
>
> <CFOUTPUT>
> 	<CFEXECUTE name="c:\Imail\adduser.exe"
> 				arguments=" -u #form.account#"
> 				outputfile="emailOut.txt"> <!---
> the executable is writing to the .txt
> file --->
> 	</CFEXECUTE>
> </CFOUTPUT>
>




From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Tue Jun 12 11:22:20 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:22:20 2001
Subject: [thelist] When should you redirect? (was site redirect check)
References: <OF7D062A58.2C5DFF73-ON80256A69.0046B7DB@ema.pwcinternal.com>
Message-ID: <000201c0f35b$bc66c880$189a043e@r3g4p8>

> I think you're right - it is similar to the translation issue.
>
> One thought though - rather than having separate URLs for different
version
> (although this is useful for testing purposes), would it not be more
> consistent
> for users to have the same URL which simply rendered differently based on
> user preferences?

Agreed, I'd say that for the same content with a different look it's better
to have the same url and store user settings in a cookie. The cookie is easy
to set. Maybe the low-end, textual version should be the default one for
those disabling cookies?

But for differents translations, imho the differents url (/en /fr /de ...
with the links on each page to the other language) is better understood by
the users : they won't look at another language as soon as they have the
right one,  and it is cookie independant.

Philippe




From rthigpen at nc.rr.com  Tue Jun 12 11:22:35 2001
From: rthigpen at nc.rr.com (Ron Thigpen)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:22:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Pause In Cold Fusion
References: <LAEEILOKLLCKKDGBEPDHOEPICAAA.joshsquared@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B26411B.52EE4870@nc.rr.com>

You might use FileExists() to check whether it is OK to read the file. 
Then pause if you have to. 

--rt


Josh Spiegel wrote:
> 
> Lets say I want to write a file and then read it on the same cold fusion
> page.



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Tue Jun 12 11:33:15 2001
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:33:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] IE 404 message?
References: <69CA03802427D411B5ED00C04F1FFD2334C5AC@EXCHANGE> <3B24E8DA.C7B2C3A3@sam-i-am.com> <3B24F04E.80001@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B2643B5.889160AD@sam-i-am.com>

> The default IE 404 page will show if its under .5 and it *should* show
> any 404 page witha  file size larger than that :)

this is the genesis of this thread: that is not turning out to be true -
at least for me. See my earlier posts: (oh, links on the archive at
lists.evolt.org/archive/ are broken so I can't give you an url...)

anyhow, this is a strange problem on hold for now - deadlines looming. 

thanks
Sam



From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 11:36:06 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:36:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <200106121144.AA474415604@apte.com>
Message-ID: <20010612163308.38806.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>

My guess is that you have repeats of the terms coming
from the database. Otherwise it shouldn't do that, but
it will if you are checking for the same term twice.
Is that a possibility?

Also, you don't need to write '#term#', you can just
write term or getTerms.term, with no ticks or pounds.

Sarah
  

 Shinji Kuwayama  wrote: I take it back; this still
isn't working the way I'd like it to.#term#',"ALL")>As
before, when it loops back around, it'll find and
replace strings inserted on the previous pass, for
example in the title="#definition#"
area.---------------------------------------For
unsubscribe and other options, includingthe Tip
Harvester and archive of TheList go
to:http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

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From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Jun 12 11:46:16 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:46:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
Message-ID: <01c0f35e$ba79e540$9949149a@rudy>

>I take it back; this still isn't working the way I'd like it to.
>
><cfloop query="getTerms">
>    <cfif FindNoCase('#term#',varcopy) is not 0>
> <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,'#term#','<a
href="http:///term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm"
title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")>
>    </cfif>
></cfloop>


hi shinji

if you can assume there's a blank in front of every term in varcopy, then
use

   ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,' #term#',
       ' <a href="http://term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm"
              title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")

note the blank in front of the first #term# and in front of the <a

this won't catch the first word in a paragraph or the first word on a new
line, so you may need an additional step 


rudy
http://rudy.ca/





From shinji at kuwayama.com  Tue Jun 12 11:53:36 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:53:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <20010612163308.38806.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B74BB2A1.160B%shinji@kuwayama.com>

on 6/12/01 11:33 AM, sarah at disaster7 at yahoo.com wrote:

> My guess is that you have repeats of the terms coming
> from the database. Otherwise it shouldn't do that, but
> it will if you are checking for the same term twice.
> Is that a possibility?

Hi Sarah! The terms are unique; what's happening is that terms sometimes
appear inside the #definition# of other terms. So if the query returned:

Terms:      Definitions:
e-mail      a way of sending messages over the Internet
Internet    a global network of computers

The code produces this:

<a href="[url]" title="a way of sending messages over the <a href="[url]"
title="a global network of computers">Internet</a>">E-mail</a> is the most
popular part of the Internet.

So that's the basic problem. What would you do?

Here's the code again:

<cfloop query="getTerms">
    <cfif FindNoCase(#term#,varcopy) is not 0>
        <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,#term#,'<a
href="http:///term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm"
title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")>
    </cfif>    
</cfloop>

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From ian at centergate.com  Tue Jun 12 11:57:26 2001
From: ian at centergate.com (Ian Potts)
Date: Tue Jun 12 11:57:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape JavaScript Problem
Message-ID: <3B264938.E30E5BC4@centergate.com>

I have a page that requires the user to add multiple entries (and have
the ability to remove them) on the same page without submitting the
page. I am attempting to take what the user supplies, massage the data a
bit, and store it in a hidden field for the following page. I display
what the user has entered in a select box and give them the option to
remove their entries. This all works flawlessly in IE, but Netscape does
not seem to let me update the value of a hidden form field. If the input
type is changed from hidden to text it works fine in Netscape.

You can see what I mean by taking a look at the test page at:
http://members.home.com/ian5411/nsjstest.htm

The Show Hidden Value button will thrown an alert with the value of the
hidden field. This works fine in IE, but netscape reports a blank value
for the field. Is there any way to set the value of the hidden field in
Netscape? I have all the more "complicated" portions of the JavaScript
working, and of course seemingly the simplest task is what gums up the
whole works :)

Any ideas? Thanks In Advance!

-- 
Ian Potts - ian at centergate.com
CenterGate Research Group - http://www.centergate.com
"Technology so advanced, even we don't understand it!"



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Jun 12 12:02:42 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:02:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
Message-ID: <01c0f361$112fdaa0$9949149a@rudy>

>e-mail      a way of sending messages over the Internet
>Internet    a global network of computers

um, okay, my trick with the blank is going to fail there too

how about this -- inside each title, place a throwaway character in front
of every word, to prevent those words from getting replaced

  e-mail      ~a ~way ~of ~sending ~messages ~over ~the ~Internet
  Internet    ~a ~global ~network ~of ~computers

then do your replace function, and then do one more where you replace the
throwaway character with nothing

oh, and as for catching terms at the front of the varcopy string, stick a
blank in front of that, too


rudy




From chris at completeimaging.com  Tue Jun 12 12:41:03 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:41:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
Message-ID: <000001c0f366$a31107f0$0900000a@darrell>

Hello,

I am trying to create an application in ColdFusion that allows user to
upload and download files. I have the upload part working fine, however
I can't get the download part to work quite as well.

Here are the requirements for the files;

1. They are currently being uploaded to a directory that is away from
the website root directory
(eventually, they will be uploaded to a separate computer.)
2. The users can upload any type of file they wish.
3. The directory/file server cannot be an ftp server for security
reasons.

The problem comes when they try to download the files. I have tried to
use cfcontent but without a proper mime type, it simply tries to save
every file as foo.htm (the name of the page calling the file). I have
tried to use an ftp server but it displays the loginid and the password
at the bottom of the browser.

Does anyone have any experience with this in ColdFusion? Is this even
possible to do, or do the files have to reside below the website root
directory or on an ftp server?

Help...

/chris

--------------------------
"In a hurricane even turkeys can fly"







From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 12:44:03 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:44:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <B74BB2A1.160B%shinji@kuwayama.com>
Message-ID: <20010612174104.83875.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com>

I've been playing with some stuff and I can't get it
to work 100%, but I think it's headed in the right
direction.

Basically, what you could do is use varcopy as a list,
using space as the delimiter. Then just loop through
those words individually and check them against each
keyword (which is nice, cause you can check exact
matches rather than doing a find), replace the words
with the link individually, and print them to screen
individually. I think that would be the only way
around such a problem. You have to do each word in
varcopy separately.

Hope that helps,
Sarah

Here's the code I was playing with, it just stupidly
repeats the linked words, I'm sure someone, somewhere
can figure out how to fix that. My mind isn't in the
right place today.

<cfset theString = "i am not quite sure how this is
going to work">

<cfloop index="x" list="#theString#" delimiters=" ">
	<cfloop index="keyword" list="quite,sure,going,work"
delimiters=",">
		<cfif keyword is x>
			<cfset currentWord =
ReplaceNoCase(x,keyword,'<cfoutput><a
href="#keyword#">#keyword#</a></cfoutput>',"ALL")>
			<cfoutput>#currentWord#</cfoutput>
		<cfelse>
		</cfif>	
	</cfloop>
		<cfoutput>#x#</cfoutput>
</cfloop>


> Hi Sarah! The terms are unique; what's happening is
> that terms sometimes
> appear inside the #definition# of other terms. So if
> the query returned:
> 
> Terms:      Definitions:
> e-mail      a way of sending messages over the
> Internet
> Internet    a global network of computers
> 
> The code produces this:
> 
> <a href="[url]" title="a way of sending messages
> over the <a href="[url]"
> title="a global network of
> computers">Internet</a>">E-mail</a> is the most
> popular part of the Internet.



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From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue Jun 12 12:48:03 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:48:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
References: <000001c0f366$a31107f0$0900000a@darrell>
Message-ID: <3B265502.D7A627CD@avencom.com>

Chris Johnston wrote:
> I am trying to create an application in ColdFusion that allows user to
> upload and download files. I have the upload part working fine, however
> I can't get the download part to work quite as well.
> 
> Here are the requirements for the files;
> 
> 1. They are currently being uploaded to a directory that is away from
> the website root directory
> (eventually, they will be uploaded to a separate computer.)
> 2. The users can upload any type of file they wish.
> 3. The directory/file server cannot be an ftp server for security
> reasons.
> 
> The problem comes when they try to download the files. I have tried to
> use cfcontent but without a proper mime type, it simply tries to save
> every file as foo.htm (the name of the page calling the file). I have
> tried to use an ftp server but it displays the loginid and the password
> at the bottom of the browser.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this in ColdFusion? Is this even
> possible to do, or do the files have to reside below the website root
> directory or on an ftp server?

We use:

<cfcontent type="application/x-unknown">
<cfheader
	name="Content-Disposition"
	value="attachment;filename=#attributes.FileName#">
<cfheader
	name="Content-Description"
	value="This is a tab-delimited file.">
<cflocation url="#request.CSVRoot#/#attributes.FileName#">

Where #attributes.FileName# is what you want the name of the file to be.

And the #request.CSVRoot# is the path to the original.

HTH!
	Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From ajohnson at mindseye.com  Tue Jun 12 12:53:33 2001
From: ajohnson at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:53:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
In-Reply-To: <000001c0f366$a31107f0$0900000a@darrell>
Message-ID: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCIEBGDNAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>

Hey Chris,

> I am trying to create an application in ColdFusion that allows user to
> upload and download files. I have the upload part working fine, however
> I can't get the download part to work quite as well.
>
> Here are the requirements for the files;
>
> 1. They are currently being uploaded to a directory that is away from
> the website root directory
> (eventually, they will be uploaded to a separate computer.)
> 2. The users can upload any type of file they wish.
> 3. The directory/file server cannot be an ftp server for security
> reasons.


Matter of fact, some of us have done this..  figleaf has a great demo which
should solve your issue:

http://www.figleaf.com/demo/mimetest/

Specifically, check out the filename attribute of cfheader, which will allow
you to name the document you're letting users download.

Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
MINDSEYE, Inc.
<phn>617.350.0339
<fax>617.350.8884
<icq>66172567
ajohnson at mindseye.com






From ajohnson at mindseye.com  Tue Jun 12 12:56:03 2001
From: ajohnson at mindseye.com (Aaron Johnson)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:56:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
In-Reply-To: <000001c0f366$a31107f0$0900000a@darrell>
Message-ID: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCMEBGDNAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>

Chris,


> The problem comes when they try to download the files. I have tried to
> use cfcontent but without a proper mime type, it simply tries to save
> every file as foo.htm (the name of the page calling the file). I have
> tried to use an ftp server but it displays the loginid and the password
> at the bottom of the browser.
	-- You'll also want to watch out for a bug in IE 5.5 SP1 in regards to
content headers & trying to save files:



http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q279/6/67.ASP?LN=EN-US


BUG: Content-Disposition Attachment Headers Does Not Save File

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The information in this article applies to:

Microsoft Internet Explorer (Programming) version 5.5

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


SYMPTOMS
A Web server that uses the Content-disposition: attachment HTTP header to
force a file download should prompt the user to open or save the file;
however, in Internet Explorer 5.5 Service Pack 1 (SP1), the user is prompted
to open or save the HTML file instead.



RESOLUTION
To resolve this problem, refer to the hotfix that is described in the
following Microsoft Knowledge Base article:

Q281119 Internet Explorer Saves HTML Content Instead of the Active Document
WORKAROUND
There are several ways to work around this problem:
Bypass Content-disposition, and use either an ActiveX control or a Java
applet to download files to disk.


Use the Save As command from the pop-up menu.


Use the Internet Explorer download behavior instead. (This is for text-based
files only).


Use a window.showModalDialog of an HTML page that does a document.write of a
hidden IFRAME with the source pointing to the file.





STATUS
Microsoft has confirmed this to be a bug in the Microsoft products listed at
the beginning of this article.


Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
MINDSEYE, Inc.
<phn>617.350.0339
<fax>617.350.8884
<icq>66172567
ajohnson at mindseye.com




From hpinson at indepthl.com  Tue Jun 12 12:59:43 2001
From: hpinson at indepthl.com (Harlow Pinson)
Date: Tue Jun 12 12:59:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
Message-ID: <3B26034E.9479.F6FB96B@localhost>

Hi, does any one know the number of alphanumeric characters for 
the following credit card numbers.  I was assuming 16 characters 
for all of them, but am not so sure anymore.

Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover

Thanks!


Harlow Pinson
Indepth Learning
Email: hpinson at indepthl.com 
Web: http://www.indepthl.com
Voice: 505-255-8085
FAX: 505-255-8084



From scott.brady at homeqonline.com  Tue Jun 12 13:01:29 2001
From: scott.brady at homeqonline.com (scott.brady at homeqonline.com)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:01:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
Message-ID: <88256A69.0062A5FA.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>


I believe Visa and Mastercard are both 16 digits.  American Express is 15
digits.

I don't know about Discover.

> Hi, does any one know the number of alphanumeric characters for
> the following credit card numbers.  I was assuming 16 characters
> for all of them, but am not so sure anymore.

> Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover

Scott






From disaster7 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 13:09:44 2001
From: disaster7 at yahoo.com (sarah)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:09:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
In-Reply-To: <88256A69.0062A5FA.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>
Message-ID: <20010612180647.57794.qmail@web12108.mail.yahoo.com>

And on that note if anyone might want to know:

Mastercard always begins with a 5
Visa always begins with a 4
Discover always begins with 6011
American Express always begins with 37

Sarah


> > Hi, does any one know the number of alphanumeric
> characters for
> > the following credit card numbers.  I was assuming
> 16 characters
> > for all of them, but am not so sure anymore.
> 
> > Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover
> 
> Scott


__________________________________________________
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From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Jun 12 13:10:34 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:10:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <B74BB2A1.160B%shinji@kuwayama.com>
Message-ID: <000701c0f36a$516b3fc0$2f01010a@dti2>

Hi Shinji,

> The terms are unique; what's happening is that terms sometimes
> appear inside the #definition# of other terms. So if the query returned:
> 
> Terms:      Definitions:
> e-mail      a way of sending messages over the Internet
> Internet    a global network of computers
> 
> The code produces this:
> 
> <a href="[url]" title="a way of sending messages over the <a href="[url]"
> title="a global network of computers">Internet</a>">E-mail</a> is the most
> popular part of the Internet.

It sounds like you want to replace only keywords that begin on a new line:

ReplaceNoCase(varcopy, Chr(13) & Chr(10) & "#term#",'<a> href="http:///term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm" title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")

The 'Chr(13) & Chr(10)' represents a line break in a text file.  Depending on what format the original text is (html, etc.) this may include more info, like <br>'s, etc.

> Here's the code again:
> <cfloop query="getTerms">
>     <cfif FindNoCase(#term#,varcopy) is not 0>
>         <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,#term#,'<a
> href="http:///term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm"
> title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")>
>     </cfif>    
> </cfloop>

Also, I haven't been following the thread closely, but the FindNoCase condition doesn't seem to be actually performing any function.  It can be omitted.  Try this:

<cfloop query="getTerms">
   <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy, Chr(13) & Chr(10) & getTerms.term, "<a href=""http:///term.cfm/#term_id#.cfm" title=""#definition#"">#getTerms.term#</a>", "ALL")>
</cfloop>

If this doesn't work or get you headed in the right direction, please include a sample of what the #varcopy# variable value looks like and we'll go from  there.

Best Regards,

Seth





From seth at sethbienek.com  Tue Jun 12 13:24:39 2001
From: seth at sethbienek.com (Seth Bienek)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:24:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
In-Reply-To: <3B26034E.9479.F6FB96B@localhost>
Message-ID: <000801c0f36c$3a750920$2f01010a@dti2>

Hi Harlow,

> Hi, does any one know the number of alphanumeric characters for 
> the following credit card numbers.  I was assuming 16 characters 
> for all of them, but am not so sure anymore.

Searched Google for "credit card validation" and got this:
http://www.beachnet.com/~hstiles/cardtype.html

Credit Card Validation
"This document outlines procedures and algorithms for Verifying the accuracy and validity of credit card numbers."

Actually a pretty interesting page.  Shows how to validate by more than just the length of the string.  I am sure there are also JavaScript modules/ CF custom tags that do this as well.


Regards,

Seth





From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Tue Jun 12 13:34:59 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:34:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
In-Reply-To: <20010612180647.57794.qmail@web12108.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <88256A69.0062A5FA.00@smtp1.themoneystore.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010612132913.0319bd20@mail.imaginuity.com>

Actually, Amex can also begin with 34.

<tip type="Credit Cards">
Check out

http://perl.about.com/compute/perl/library/weekly/aa073000a.htm

for information about credit card prefixes and the Luhn algorithm and other 
fun things about checking credit card numbers.
</tip>

--Ben

At 01:06 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:
>And on that note if anyone might want to know:
>
>Mastercard always begins with a 5
>Visa always begins with a 4
>Discover always begins with 6011
>American Express always begins with 37
>
>Sarah
>
>
> > > Hi, does any one know the number of alphanumeric
> > characters for
> > > the following credit card numbers.  I was assuming
> > 16 characters
> > > for all of them, but am not so sure anymore.
> >
> > > Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover
> >
> > Scott

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From gina at sitediva.com  Tue Jun 12 13:48:59 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:48:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Conundrum
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLMEKPJOAA.gina@sitediva.com>

Hi all,

I'm *finally* getting around to doing my own site after being so busy working on
everyone else's <grin>, and I am having a problem with the direction I need to
take with my site.

My target audience is potential/existing small to medium business clients, *and*
professional design firms that need help from a freelancer/subcontractor.
Obviously, both audiences will be viewing the site at totally different
resolutions, need different types of information, and the design firms would be
privy to information I would not necessarily want clients to have (such as
strengths/weaknesses in programming languages, my resume, etc.)

Now, I have thought of having the whole shebang at one site where the visitor
picks which area to go into--but I'm not sure a potential client would really
know what to do...I'm playing with a tentative splash page design here:

BTW, I haven't optimized the images perfectly, it was thrown together in
Dreamweaver, and there's some graphics that still need font and color selections
perfected, so ignore everything but the general look and direction of it.
http://www.sitediva.com/sitetest/

Do you see enough guidance about which audience should go where--or do you think
I should just separate the audiences with two different sites, maybe
sitediva.net for the outsourcers, and sitediva.com for the clients??? Any input?

Has anyone else tried/succeeded/failed in catering to both audiences with one
site? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Gina




From shinji at kuwayama.com  Tue Jun 12 13:53:15 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Tue Jun 12 13:53:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <01c0f361$112fdaa0$9949149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <B74BCEAE.162F%shinji@kuwayama.com>

on 6/12/01 11:59 AM, rudy at r937 at interlog.com wrote:

>> e-mail      a way of sending messages over the Internet
>> Internet    a global network of computers
> 
> um, okay, my trick with the blank is going to fail there too

Yeah, I'm wary of relying on delimiters inside the variables. Taking your
cue, I've done this:

<cfquery name="getTerms" datasource="theDataSource">
    select *
    from Glossary
</cfquery>

<cfloop query="getTerms">
    <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,'#term#','~#term#~',"ALL")>
</cfloop>

<cfloop query="getTerms">
    <cfif FindNoCase('~#term#~',varcopy) is not 0>
        <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,'~#term#~','<a href="http://"
title="#definition#">#term#</a>',"ALL")>
    </cfif>
</cfloop>

This does work. However, the first loop matches terms inside of terms, which
messes things up a little. It gives results like this:

~<a href="http://" title="definition">data</a>base~

Thoughts?

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From chris at completeimaging.com  Tue Jun 12 14:10:25 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:10:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
In-Reply-To: <OIEHKPDGNCGLACDNEKFCMEBGDNAA.ajohnson@mindseye.com>
Message-ID: <000101c0f373$1ed443f0$0900000a@darrell>

This at least explains why I can't get it to work. This is what I have
so far:

<cfheader name="Content-disposition" value="inline;
filename=#url.AccFile#">
<cfcontent type="application/x-unknown" 
	file="#application.filepath##accno#\#url.AccFile#" 
	deletefile="No">

So has anyone found a way around this little ie 5.5 sp1 problem using
CF?

> -----Original Message-----
> Chris,
> 
> 	-- You'll also want to watch out for a bug in IE 5.5 
> SP1 in regards to content headers & trying to save files:
> 
> 
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q279/6/67.ASP
> ?LN=EN-US
> 
> 
> BUG: Content-Disposition Attachment Headers Does Not Save File
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> ----
> The information in this article applies to:
> 
> Microsoft Internet Explorer (Programming) version 5.5
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> ----
> 
> 
> SYMPTOMS
> A Web server that uses the Content-disposition: attachment 
> HTTP header to force a file download should prompt the user 
> to open or save the file; however, in Internet Explorer 5.5 
> Service Pack 1 (SP1), the user is prompted to open or save 
> the HTML file instead.
> 
> 
> 
> RESOLUTION
> To resolve this problem, refer to the hotfix that is 
> described in the following Microsoft Knowledge Base article:
> 
> Q281119 Internet Explorer Saves HTML Content Instead of the 
> Active Document WORKAROUND There are several ways to work 
> around this problem: Bypass Content-disposition, and use 
> either an ActiveX control or a Java applet to download files to disk.
> 
> 
> Use the Save As command from the pop-up menu.
> 
> 
> Use the Internet Explorer download behavior instead. (This is 
> for text-based files only).
> 
> 
> Use a window.showModalDialog of an HTML page that does a 
> document.write of a hidden IFRAME with the source pointing to 
> the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STATUS
> Microsoft has confirmed this to be a bug in the Microsoft 
> products listed at the beginning of this article.
> 
> 
> Aaron Johnson, MCSE, MCP+I
> Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
> MINDSEYE, Inc.
> <phn>617.350.0339
> <fax>617.350.8884
> <icq>66172567
> ajohnson at mindseye.com
 




From jay.blanchard at thermon.com  Tue Jun 12 14:11:50 2001
From: jay.blanchard at thermon.com (J. Blanchard)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:11:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Conundrum
Message-ID: <200106121911.f5CJBmt07796@leo.evolt.org>

<snip>
Do you see enough guidance about which audience should go where--or do you think I should just separate the audiences with two different sites, maybe sitediva.net for the outsourcers, and sitediva.com for the clients??? Any input?
</snip>

I think that the .net and .com name are too close for comfort if you are trying to keep certain info from certain groups. There is a propensity to type .com at the end of any web address now, which may lead to confusion. My solution for this (when I was freelancing) was to have a secured area (using basic authentication or database driven identification) and give that entire address to the client where the details mattered. The rest of the site was designed so that any potential client could see it. If you are going to have separate sites let them have separate identities as well...one sitediva.com and one othercompletelydifferentname.com

<tip type="sql" author="jay blanchard">
Over the lifetime of many website(s) you will have the opportunity to gather many sql scripts that will enhance your ability to perform more efficiently. Take the time to keep these commented, categorized, and documented so that the 'library' becomes a wealth of knowledge either for reusing or rewriting sql statements. Also, this effort will make these nuggets more easily available to share.
</tip>

Thanks!

Jay Blanchard
Web Engineer
Thermon Industries, Inc.
1.800.820.HEAT x327
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.




From JGreen at DesMoinesMetro.com  Tue Jun 12 14:20:30 2001
From: JGreen at DesMoinesMetro.com (Green, Janet)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:20:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Conundrum
Message-ID: <9BF107507B15D511B2D6000255586DFA0B19A9@EXCHWEB>

***Now, I have thought of having the whole shebang at one site where the
visitor
picks which area to go into--but I'm not sure a potential client would
really
know what to do...I'm playing with a tentative splash page design here:***


Gina, I *really* like your layout - simple and elegant, but looks
appropriately hi-tech... and the personal photo is a great touch. A couple
of thoughts: 

If I am a business owner seeking a web designer, *anything* on the site that
doesn't pertain to me or answer my questions will be a distraction. For that
reason, my vote is to maintain two separate sites. This will make your
traffic analysis easier as well, I think. Other reasons to maintain separate
sites would be: 
1. you can design the sites *for* the intended audience, keeping in mind all
you know about that prospect's level of prior knowledge, their
viewing/surfing habits, screen resolution, etc. 
2. you don't run the risk of one client finding information intended for the
*other* audience - such as a small business owner discovering that you
charge a lower rate for your outsourcing clients, which could be a tricky
explanation. 
3. You don't run the risk of *confusing* one client (the small business
owner) with technical information they might run into over on the other side
(such as discussions of graphic optimization, etc.) without realizing they
are no longer in their own intended area. 

In my 15 years in marketing/communications, the caveat has always been, "one
(tool), one message," meaning don't try to make your brochure or video or
website all things to all people.

Along those same lines, I did think the tab structure in the upper right was
a logical choice, but the wording on the tabs was one area that might
confuse me as a potential client. If I'm a business, that makes me a
"business or individual" but then I am *seeking* a "professional design
firm..." so I might not know which tab to choose. If you are going to use
this structure and maintain only one site, consider re-wording the question
to read, "Click below if you are a..." then make the tabs read, "Business or
individual seeking a web designer" and "Professional web design company
seeking freelance talent". Yep, it's long wording and it may force you to
expand the tabs or edit the wording a bit... but, it sure makes it crystal
clear which side of the site is for which audience. 

Hope this helps... nice work so far !
Janet




From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Jun 12 14:24:30 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:24:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249301A@gate.ti3.com>

Anyone else wonder if these powers can also be used for evil?

Is that something to worry about as a site admin? --What stop gaps are in
place for that sort of thing?

sgd


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]
> Check out
> 
> http://perl.about.com/compute/perl/library/weekly/aa073000a.htm
> 
> for information about credit card prefixes and the Luhn 
> algorithm and other 
> fun things about checking credit card numbers.



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Jun 12 14:29:15 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy limeback)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:29:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
Message-ID: <01c0f373$b6616a40$0d47149a@rudy>

> However, the first loop matches terms inside of terms,
> which messes things up a little.

okay, that's easy to fix, don't do the first loop!     ;o)


instead of

><cfquery name="getTerms" datasource="theDataSource">
>    select *
>    from Glossary
></cfquery>
>
><cfloop query="getTerms">
>    <cfset varcopy = ReplaceNoCase(varcopy,'#term#','~#term#~',"ALL")>
></cfloop>

just do this

  <cfquery name="getWonkyTerms" datasource="theDataSource">
      select '~' || term  as wonkyterm
      from Glossary
  </cfquery>

that way each wonkyterm will have the wonky character at the front, and you
don't have to do a replace on them


rudy




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Tue Jun 12 14:40:15 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 14:40:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533915@ns.magisnetworks.com>

My bank frequently holds charges on purchases I've made because I didn't put
in the correct billing address for my card. While you could certainly loop
thru all possible expiration dates, most places I deal with require the name
on the card and the correct billing address. Not sure if that's universal,
but it would certainly make it difficult to program a fraud machine.

Fascinating info, though. Easily translatable to other languages, too.

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Dexter [mailto:sgd at ti3.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:22 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: RE: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number


Anyone else wonder if these powers can also be used for evil?

Is that something to worry about as a site admin? --What stop gaps are in
place for that sort of thing?

sgd


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Dyer [mailto:ben_dyer at imaginuity.com]
> Check out
> 
> http://perl.about.com/compute/perl/library/weekly/aa073000a.htm
> 
> for information about credit card prefixes and the Luhn 
> algorithm and other 
> fun things about checking credit card numbers.





From shinji at kuwayama.com  Tue Jun 12 15:19:12 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:19:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
In-Reply-To: <01c0f373$b6616a40$0d47149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <B74BE2BF.163A%shinji@kuwayama.com>

on 6/12/01 2:13 PM, rudy limeback at r937 at interlog.com wrote:

> just do this
> 
> <cfquery name="getWonkyTerms" datasource="theDataSource">
> select '~' || term  as wonkyterm
> from Glossary
> </cfquery>
> 
> that way each wonkyterm will have the wonky character at the front, and you
> don't have to do a replace on them

That looks pretty cool - I tried it and got:

[SQL Server]Line 1: Incorrect syntax near '|'

Does SQL Server 7 not support this kind of pattern matching?

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue Jun 12 15:41:52 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:41:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
References: <000101c0f373$1ed443f0$0900000a@darrell>
Message-ID: <3B267DB4.753238CA@avencom.com>

Chris Johnston wrote:
> This at least explains why I can't get it to work. This is what I have
> so far:

Well despite the IE5.5sp1 bug - have you tested it in another browser?
(Netscape4? Opera? Mozilla?) and does it work *there*?

And have you tried the recommendations on the MS support page?

	- joe

> <cfheader name="Content-disposition" value="inline;
> filename=#url.AccFile#">
> <cfcontent type="application/x-unknown"
>         file="#application.filepath##accno#\#url.AccFile#"
>         deletefile="No">
> 
> So has anyone found a way around this little ie 5.5 sp1 problem using
> CF?
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q279/6/67.ASP?LN=EN-US

-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From justin at monarchmedia.com  Tue Jun 12 15:44:47 2001
From: justin at monarchmedia.com (Justin)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:44:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
Message-ID: <B0000058978@monarch1.internic2.net>

I am trying to find the best statistical software for organizing server 
stats.  The two I've seen and read the most about are Media House's
"LiveStats" and Exody's WebSuxess 4.  Anyone have any experience with these
two products or have anything else they think is really swell?

Many Thanks



From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Jun 12 15:50:38 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:50:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493024@gate.ti3.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin [mailto:justin at monarchmedia.com]
> 
> I am trying to find the best statistical software for 
> organizing server 
> stats.  The two I've seen and read the most about are Media House's
> "LiveStats" and Exody's WebSuxess 4.  Anyone have any 

We use the LiveStats package here at work, and for giving the front office
something they can see and play with in real time has been a treat. I
wouldn't use it for hardcore analysis (all pre-packaged reports, very little
tweaking outside of date ranges and groupings and such), but you can define
user groups and get the reports emailed to you and stuff. Great for
executive level reporting. It doesn't seem to really get in the way of the
web server's processing (it runs as a service on NT), and you can grab logs
from multiple places. It recognizes IIS logs easier/better than MS' own
SiteServer Analysis. Go figure.

sgd
--
thinksafely.org



From chris at completeimaging.com  Tue Jun 12 15:53:57 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:53:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
In-Reply-To: <3B267DB4.753238CA@avencom.com>
Message-ID: <000601c0f381$94a73250$0900000a@darrell>

I have tried it other browsers and all of them break in some way or
another. I have yet to find a solution that will work in all browsers.
(With the exception of placing the files on an FTP site, which is being
strictly outlawed by the client) I don't really want to use an applet or
an active x program so I am not really sure what I am going to do. It
may come down to building a really messing page that detects that
clients browser and carries out the appropriate actions. Either that or
programming a way of determining the mime-type of the files being placed
on the server.

What I have found so far is that it only breaks for known mime-types.
Therefore, if I can figure out a way of detecting which mime-type a file
is, I can probably make it work. The problem with the work a rounds is
that they either rely on added programs which are out of my programming
expertise (and out of the budget) or really on work arounds that only
work in Internet Explorer.

Anyone know of a way of detecting the mime-type of a file in CF?

/chris

PS. Yet another strike against Micro$oft!!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org 
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Joe Crawford
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:38 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Downloading Files in CF
> 
> 
> Chris Johnston wrote:
> > This at least explains why I can't get it to work. This is 
> what I have 
> > so far:
> 
> Well despite the IE5.5sp1 bug - have you tested it in another 
> browser? (Netscape4? Opera? Mozilla?) and does it work *there*?
> 
> And have you tried the recommendations on the MS support page?
> 
> 	- joe
> 
> > <cfheader name="Content-disposition" value="inline; 
> > filename=#url.AccFile#"> <cfcontent type="application/x-unknown"
> >         file="#application.filepath##accno#\#url.AccFile#"
> >         deletefile="No">
> > 
> > So has anyone found a way around this little ie 5.5 sp1 
> problem using 
> > CF?
> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q279/6/67.ASP
?LN=EN-US

-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development .....
mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com .... San Diego \\
CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher




From bev at enso-company.com  Tue Jun 12 15:55:58 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:55:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] Family Trees
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493024@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <031801c0f382$35839dd0$a2b999cf@beverly8n5gg7i>

Anyone recommend something for a family tree app for Debian Linux / Apache?

Bev




From shinji at kuwayama.com  Tue Jun 12 15:58:39 2001
From: shinji at kuwayama.com (Shinji Kuwayama)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:58:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493024@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <B74BEC11.165E%shinji@kuwayama.com>

on 6/12/01 3:47 PM, Scott Dexter at sgd at ti3.com wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Justin [mailto:justin at monarchmedia.com]
>> 
>> I am trying to find the best statistical software for
> 
> We use the LiveStats package here at work, and for giving the front office
> something they can see and play with in real time has been a treat. I
> wouldn't use it for hardcore analysis (all pre-packaged reports, very little
> tweaking outside of date ranges and groupings and such), but you can define
> user groups and get the reports emailed to you and stuff. Great for
> executive level reporting. It doesn't seem to really get in the way of the

I'll second Scott's comments; we've been using it for a few years with no
problems.

-- 
Shinji Kuwayama
Director, Internet Development
http://www.internetcoach.com/




From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Jun 12 16:02:53 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:02:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Family Trees
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493024@gate.ti3.com> <031801c0f382$35839dd0$a2b999cf@beverly8n5gg7i>
Message-ID: <3B26825E.4000904@starkmedia.com>

Hi Bev -

I've heard a lot of people mention GeneWeb for this particular topic:
http://cristal.inria.fr/~ddr/GeneWeb/en/index.html

Runs on any CGI enabled webserver, and it comes with its own built in 
webserver if you don't have one

hope that helps :)

.djc.

Bev Corwin wrote:

> Anyone recommend something for a family tree app for Debian Linux / Apache?





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Jun 12 16:15:09 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:15:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493024@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612141141.02d37a08@baratta.com>

At 01:47 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Justin [mailto:justin at monarchmedia.com]
> >
> > I am trying to find the best statistical software for
> > organizing server
> > stats.  The two I've seen and read the most about are Media House's
> > "LiveStats" and Exody's WebSuxess 4.  Anyone have any
>
>We use the LiveStats package here at work, and for giving the front office
>something they can see and play with in real time has been a treat. I
>wouldn't use it for hardcore analysis (all pre-packaged reports, very little
>tweaking outside of date ranges and groupings and such), but you can define
>user groups and get the reports emailed to you and stuff. Great for
>executive level reporting.

Scott...

What would you recommend for hard core analysis?

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From bev at enso-company.com  Tue Jun 12 16:18:09 2001
From: bev at enso-company.com (Bev Corwin)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:18:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Family Trees
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493024@gate.ti3.com> <031801c0f382$35839dd0$a2b999cf@beverly8n5gg7i> <3B26825E.4000904@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <036201c0f385$4d11dc70$a2b999cf@beverly8n5gg7i>

Thanks.. will give it a go.

Bev

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Cody" <djc at starkmedia.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Family Trees


> Hi Bev -
>
> I've heard a lot of people mention GeneWeb for this particular topic:
> http://cristal.inria.fr/~ddr/GeneWeb/en/index.html
>
> Runs on any CGI enabled webserver, and it comes with its own built in
> webserver if you don't have one
>
> hope that helps :)
>
> .djc.
>
> Bev Corwin wrote:
>
> > Anyone recommend something for a family tree app for Debian Linux /
Apache?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Tue Jun 12 16:23:55 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:23:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533918@ns.magisnetworks.com>

<snip>
Scott...

What would you recommend for hard core analysis?

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys
</snip>

Anthony:

I have no experience with anything else, but we have WebTrends running on
all our servers, and I haven't found anything I wanted to do that it
couldn't. Completely customizable reports (including your choice of HTML or
various MS Office formats) plus extras like drive space alerts for the local
machine and ping checks for http/ftp servers. It can also be set to allow
users to request reports ad hoc (you set 'em up or they request from the
standard list.)

It's not cheap (about $700, unlike Analog, which is free
http://www.analog.cx/  - I've never used it) but it took very very little
thought to get it set up and configured exactly the way I wanted it. 

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 



From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Jun 12 16:24:04 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:24:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help with a replace loop
Message-ID: <01c0f384$df14f860$a048149a@rudy>

>[SQL Server]Line 1: Incorrect syntax near '|'
>
>Does SQL Server 7 not support this kind of pattern matching?

that's not pattern matching, the double pipes are string concatenation

i'm sorry, i was using standard sql syntax, i think sql/server wants a plus
sign instead   =o)

   select '~' + term as wonkyterm from Glossary




rudy





From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Jun 12 16:29:21 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:29:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302A@gate.ti3.com>

> 
> What would you recommend for hard core analysis?

hmm ... if you can get it tweaked out, the SiteServer stuff isn't bad; it is
pretty flexible, though it tends to bias the other SiteServer components ...
There's the package Dan uses for evolt (Dan?)... I've played with WebTrends,
and it seems pretty fricken cool too, but LiveStats takes care of what we're
required to provide, so we use it...

sgd



From djc at starkmedia.com  Tue Jun 12 16:44:01 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:44:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302A@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3B268C01.5030901@starkmedia.com>

The evolt stats are generated with analog(http://www.analog.cx ) which 
isn't the prettiest thing out of the box, but you can configure it.

Its also very very fast. It parsed last months log files for evolt( 
686Mb to be exact..) in under 90 seconds.

The last time I tried to run webtrends on 500Mb worth of log files, it 
took about 8 hours with DNS lookups off..

.djc.

Scott Dexter wrote:

>>What would you recommend for hard core analysis?

> There's the package Dan uses for evolt (Dan?)... I've played with WebTrends,
> and it seems pretty fricken cool too, but LiveStats takes care of what we're
> required to provide, so we use it...





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Jun 12 16:50:56 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Jun 12 16:50:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302A@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612143749.02e131d8@baratta.com>

At 02:26 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:
> >
> > What would you recommend for hard core analysis?
>
>hmm ... if you can get it tweaked out, the SiteServer stuff isn't bad; it is
>pretty flexible, though it tends to bias the other SiteServer components ...
>There's the package Dan uses for evolt (Dan?)... I've played with WebTrends,
>and it seems pretty fricken cool too, but LiveStats takes care of what we're
>required to provide, so we use it...

I'm currently using WebTrends (Log Analyzer) and I find it "lacking". It 
does not appear to support archiving of your stats. I've had to write VBS 
scripts to song and dance the directory names in order for us to "archive" 
a set of logs on a monthly basis. (It's options for Pre and Post execution 
of VBS scripts is painfully counter intuitive and poorly documented.)

WebTrends is VERY picky about log file types. I've tried to get it to run a 
yearly report on my zipped logs AND my non-zipped logs, and it failed 
saying I can't do multiple servers. (What? They are all from the same ISS 
service!) By default, version 6.5b does not allow you to have ANY time 
discrepancies in your logs. If you have a few records out of order, for 
what ever reason, it bails on the whole job. There is a fix for this, but 
you have to "manually" change an INI file.

I can't seem to make it do compares between months (e.g. trend analysis - 
hence my beef with the name WebTrends ;-). Maybe I am just reading the 
wrong documentation.

It does nice monthly reports and has a nice scheduler, but I felt I hit the 
wall pretty quickly on what I found it could or could not do. And for 
$500-700 that's pretty disappointing.

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Tue Jun 12 17:01:06 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Tue Jun 12 17:01:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
In-Reply-To: <3B268C01.5030901@starkmedia.com>
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302A@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010612165422.03141b58@mail.imaginuity.com>

Faststats is also very nice.  Clean, simple and (like its name says) fast.

Free for 30 days, after that it's $99.  Way cheaper than WebTrends.

http://www.mach5.com/

--Ben

At 04:39 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:
>The evolt stats are generated with analog(http://www.analog.cx ) which 
>isn't the prettiest thing out of the box, but you can configure it.
>
>Its also very very fast. It parsed last months log files for evolt( 686Mb 
>to be exact..) in under 90 seconds.
>
>The last time I tried to run webtrends on 500Mb worth of log files, it 
>took about 8 hours with DNS lookups off..
>
>.djc.
>
>Scott Dexter wrote:
>
>>>What would you recommend for hard core analysis?
>
>>There's the package Dan uses for evolt (Dan?)... I've played with WebTrends,
>>and it seems pretty fricken cool too, but LiveStats takes care of what we're
>>required to provide, so we use it...
>
><!-----------------------
>Ben Dyer
>Senior Internet Developer
>Imaginuity Interactive
>http://www.imaginuity.com
>//---------------------->
>




From chrisg at gsnet.com  Tue Jun 12 17:04:11 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Tue Jun 12 17:04:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
In-Reply-To: <B0000058978@monarch1.internic2.net>
Message-ID: <B74BED4C.36E8%chrisg@gsnet.com>

Here I go with what _not_ to get:

Webtrends.

We've completely ditched it.  It's slow.  Modifying the overall structure of
the HTML reports it outputs is a hack.  Error messages are vague and common.
They've got like 100 tiers to their product that seems to require upgrading
for any new thing you would like to do.  Example:

We have 2 log servers maintaining logs for our single web site.  We lost
power for a bit and ended up having to cat the logs together to create a
complete log.  No big deal, right?  Unfortunately Webtrends seemed to think
that we were doing something that required their Enterprise edition, which
was 10 times more expensive than the version we were using.

So we installed Webaliser 2.01 and cooked through a month's worth of logs in
a couple of hours, reverse DNS and everything.  It's OpenSource.

So that's my what not to get speech.

Our parent company has LiveStats and they apparently got sold on Webtrends
Enterprise and now ask US for our stats.  Everything ran fine with
Livestats.

Now, in having said all this, the version of Webtrends  we had was (I think)
2 versions old. 6.0 I think.  I don't know what they're up to now.

Oh, and IMO, the yearly subscriptions for upgrades are expensive.

HTH,

Chris.

on 6/12/2001 2:45 PM, Justin at justin at monarchmedia.com wrote:

> I am trying to find the best statistical software for organizing server
> stats.  The two I've seen and read the most about are Media House's
> "LiveStats" and Exody's WebSuxess 4.  Anyone have any experience with these
> two products or have anything else they think is really swell?
> 
> Many Thanks




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Tue Jun 12 17:05:01 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 17:05:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D020085153391A@ns.magisnetworks.com>

 . . . which is why we ask the experts. Thanks for the (disappointing) heads
up. The clients currently using Webtrends may never outgrow it, so hopefully
I'll have Analog grokked before I need a REAL analysis tool.

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 

<snip>
The last time I tried to run webtrends on 500Mb worth of log files, it 
took about 8 hours with DNS lookups off..

.djc.
</snip>

<snip>
It does nice monthly reports and has a nice scheduler, but I felt I hit the 
wall pretty quickly on what I found it could or could not do. And for 
$500-700 that's pretty disappointing.

---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys
</snip>



From waves at atlantic.net  Tue Jun 12 17:24:17 2001
From: waves at atlantic.net (Jonathan A. Feldt)
Date: Tue Jun 12 17:24:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
References: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D020085153391A@ns.magisnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <008201c0f38d$ee836260$de4fd0d1@8cl0m01>

...grokked...?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Canfield, Joel" <JCanfield at magisnetworks.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Web Stat Software


> . . . which is why we ask the experts. Thanks for the (disappointing)
heads
> up. The clients currently using Webtrends may never outgrow it, so
hopefully
> I'll have Analog grokked before I need a REAL analysis tool.
>
> Joel D Canfield
> Applications Manager
> Magis Networks, Inc.
> jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
> 858.523.2328
>
> <snip>
> The last time I tried to run webtrends on 500Mb worth of log files, it
> took about 8 hours with DNS lookups off..
>
> .djc.
> </snip>
>
> <snip>
> It does nice monthly reports and has a nice scheduler, but I felt I hit
the
> wall pretty quickly on what I found it could or could not do. And for
> $500-700 that's pretty disappointing.
>
> ---
> Anthony Baratta
> President
> Keyboard Jockeys
> </snip>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Tue Jun 12 17:26:16 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 17:26:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D020085153391C@ns.magisnetworks.com>

Studied enough to grasp at an intuitive automatic subconscious level.

 From 'Stranger in a Strange Land' by Robert Heinlein. Every time I use the
word I'm reminded how old I am.

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan A. Feldt [mailto:waves at atlantic.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:21 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Web Stat Software


...grokked...?



From anns at ci.concord.ca.us  Tue Jun 12 18:05:12 2001
From: anns at ci.concord.ca.us (Stephens, Ann)
Date: Tue Jun 12 18:05:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly
Message-ID: <B1FAB4AC6696D311AC0A0000F6AF745AEC11EC@CONCORDMAIL>

> I've just updated a site (http://www.ci.concord.ca.us) that uses
> JavaScript menus (from Fireworks popup feature) and has a few more
> graphics than I've used in the past. The site loads too slowly and I'd
> like suggestions on getting it to load more quickly. I think it's the
> JavaScript that's the main culprit. The menus and the script that runs
> them are being called from the pages. I noticed these scripts have been
> cached on my computer so I'm assuming they're quicker to get to than if
> they weren't. (I did a test without the fancy menus and the page loaded
> pretty quickly.) Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
Ann Stephens




From gozz at gozz.com  Tue Jun 12 18:42:17 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Tue Jun 12 18:42:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
Message-ID: <p04310101b74c564a0487@[192.168.1.100]>

I see that Win 2K Pro can have only "1 virtual server" ... does this 
apply to localhost? In other words, if I am using Win 2K Pro to build 
websites, could I open up the IIS console and select what directory 
is the home directory for localhost like I can in NT 4/IIS 4?

Also, it see that Win 2K Server is required for SQL Server 2000 - 
will SQL Server 7 run locally under Win 2K Pro?

I'm just a guy that is freaking a little bit over the thought that if 
I upgrade to Win 2000, I may have to get the Server version to 
continue testing my websites locally as easy as I can now.

Thanks.


-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From cwilliams at compumodules.com  Tue Jun 12 18:46:13 2001
From: cwilliams at compumodules.com (Chris Williams)
Date: Tue Jun 12 18:46:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly
In-Reply-To: <B1FAB4AC6696D311AC0A0000F6AF745AEC11EC@CONCORDMAIL>
Message-ID: <FGEKIJDCADEFEBGHPLJKKEPNCCAA.cwilliams@compumodules.com>

Your javascript is probably the culprit, but you could slice up the banner
at the top of the page. Would save some time, but 99% sure its the
javascript.  If not, the regular text on the page would load fine.

Chris


 -----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Stephens, Ann
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:02 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly


> I've just updated a site (http://www.ci.concord.ca.us) that uses
> JavaScript menus (from Fireworks popup feature) and has a few more
> graphics than I've used in the past. The site loads too slowly and I'd
> like suggestions on getting it to load more quickly. I think it's the
> JavaScript that's the main culprit. The menus and the script that runs
> them are being called from the pages. I noticed these scripts have been
> cached on my computer so I'm assuming they're quicker to get to than if
> they weren't. (I did a test without the fancy menus and the page loaded
> pretty quickly.) Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
Ann Stephens


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From gozz at gozz.com  Tue Jun 12 18:47:48 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Tue Jun 12 18:47:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
Message-ID: <p04310102b74c58eea36a@[192.168.1.100]>

Reading the MM site, this seems to be implied, but not stated implicitly:

Do all the shipping MM products that include CF Studio have a single 
user version of CF Server 5?

You can tell I'm sitting here pondering updating da Windoze box. Thanks.
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From sgd at ti3.com  Tue Jun 12 18:57:23 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Tue Jun 12 18:57:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com>

> 
> I'm just a guy that is freaking a little bit over the thought that if 
> I upgrade to Win 2000, I may have to get the Server version to 
> continue testing my websites locally as easy as I can now.

There are limits on the number of connections to the webserver and all that
(which it sounds like you've read some on it). I went ahead and upgraded to
Server on my workstation, though the other developers run Pro cause they're
not running local copies of IIS (they develop against either my maching or a
common development box that still runs NT4). I've got IIS, SQL 7, and
SiteServer (+Commerce) running locally, so it made sense to just run W2k
Server (and I talked my boss into the licensing). That and my maching is the
proving ground for our apps as we migrate to W2K on our production boxes
(still NT4)....

So, if you can afford it, go Server....

sgd



From jcrawford at avencom.com  Tue Jun 12 19:00:44 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Tue Jun 12 19:00:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly
References: <B1FAB4AC6696D311AC0A0000F6AF745AEC11EC@CONCORDMAIL>
Message-ID: <3B26AC52.EE4C4B90@avencom.com>

"Stephens, Ann" wrote:
> > I've just updated a site (http://www.ci.concord.ca.us) that uses
> > JavaScript menus (from Fireworks popup feature) and has a few more
> > graphics than I've used in the past. The site loads too slowly and I'd
> > like suggestions on getting it to load more quickly. I think it's the
> > JavaScript that's the main culprit. The menus and the script that runs
> > them are being called from the pages. I noticed these scripts have been
> > cached on my computer so I'm assuming they're quicker to get to than if
> > they weren't. (I did a test without the fancy menus and the page loaded
> > pretty quickly.) Any help would be greatly appreciated!

the html and css files:
http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/index.htm               <-- 11k
http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/Templates/general.css   <-- ~1k

and for the javascript:
http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/Templates/load_menus.js <-- 25k
http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/Templates/fw_menu.js    <-- 34k


and the images:
43k
http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/homepage_r2_c1.gif
 7k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/familyfirstlogo.gif
 5k
http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/homepage_r5_c1.gif
 4k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/parkinggarage.jpg
 2k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/citylogo.gif
 1k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/submenuslice.gif
 1k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/topslice.gif
~1k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/topspaceslice.gif
~1k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/lighton-tiny.gif
~1k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/sunicon20px.gif
~1k http://www.ci.concord.ca.us/graphics/imagesforpage/spacer.gif

I *think* I got them all.

So for the html+css we have 11k.
for the javascript we have 59k.
and for the images a rough total of 64k. 

Combined total roughly 134k.

Add to that the execution time of all the javascript, not to mention
this 134k of stuff all has to download before the menus will be active,
and you get slow.

	- Joe <http://artlung.com/>
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From cvos at netpaths.net  Tue Jun 12 19:21:58 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Tue Jun 12 19:21:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] quicktime streaming
Message-ID: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>

I have a bunch of mov files and notice they need to be completely downloaded to play.
http://www.netlivemusic.com/craig/

does one have to install quicktime streaming server just to get these babies to autoplay, or is
there a server config (im running apache) that will do this?

--


Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From poojie at dccnet.com  Tue Jun 12 19:55:04 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Tue Jun 12 19:55:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
References: <p04310101b74c564a0487@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <006901c0f3a3$5c49e7a0$5ef9e6cf@strung>

quote (Erik Mattheis):
---------------------------------------
I see that Win 2K Pro can have only "1 virtual server" ... does
this apply to localhost? In other words, if I am using Win 2K Pro
to build websites, could I open up the IIS console and select what
directory is the home directory for localhost like I can in NT
4/IIS 4?
----------------------------------------

Yeah, 1 server is the limit for Win2k Pro, which becomes your
localhost (or http://127.0.0.1 ). You can also create virtual
directories though if you are working on several sites -- these
become http://localhost/dirname . This is what I do to forgoe
having to upgrade to Server edition.

<tip type="Virtual Directories with IIS 5.0" author="Daryl grant">
You can quickly add or remove virtual directories from within
Windows Explorer (in Win2k) by right clicking a folder and clicking
"Properties". Then go to the Web Sharing tab and enable sharing for
that folder. A properties dialog will pop up which will allow you
to do some basic configuration for that folder including its
"alias". This "Virtual Directory" will now be available at
http://localhost/alias .
</tip>

Daryl




From andrew at uber.net.nz  Tue Jun 12 20:08:54 2001
From: andrew at uber.net.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Tue Jun 12 20:08:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] quicktime streaming
In-Reply-To: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
References: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <p05100305b74c6af5c84d@[192.168.1.5]>

>I have a bunch of mov files and notice they need to be completely 
>downloaded to play.
>http://www.netlivemusic.com/craig/
>
>does one have to install quicktime streaming server just to get 
>these babies to autoplay, or is
>there a server config (im running apache) that will do this?

I've never looked into the server side of quicktime streaming, but if 
you simply want the movies to start playing once a significant amount 
has been downloaded then check the movie export settings that were 
used. There should be a 'prepare for internet streaming' option, with 
a number of choices (fast start / fast start + compressed header / 
hinted). This worked fine on the servers I'm using without any 
dicking about server-side at all.

On the other hand, if you're wanting something like a web-cam-style 
video feed, then that's a different story altogether... I could be 
wrong, but I'm fairly sure that's what the 'quicktime streaming 
server' you mention would offer, and I don't think that's what you 
want here.

Best,
Andrew
-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/



From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Jun 12 20:11:09 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Tue Jun 12 20:11:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Number of digits in Credit Card Number
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249301A@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <3B26BD90.FDF797B9@dowebs.com>

Scott Dexter wrote:
> 
> Anyone else wonder if these powers can also be used for evil?
> 
> Is that something to worry about as a site admin? --What stop gaps are in
> place for that sort of thing?

Actually it IS pretty easy to build a mod 10 generator that will create
correctly formatted credit card numbers. But that doesn't mean they will
pass authorization. The credit card industry does not issue the next
correctly formatted number, they leave holes in the pattern just to
catch someone throwing a string of numbers at them. Try sending 3
correctly formatted but unissued numbers at the call center in a row and
watch your merchant account get frozen (a good reason in its self to use
the test). 

The mod 10 Luhn test is only a guarantee against an input typo. It
should therefore be done client side with an onchange event to the
credit card field. Here's a shortened version of Netscape's original
1995 validator. Pass the number to the cc object isAnyCard(cc). The full
validator which checks for type of card is at
http://developer.netscape.com/library/examples/javascript/formval/overview.html.

	function isCreditCard(st) {
  if (st.length > 19)
    return (false);
  sum = 0; mul = 1; l = st.length;
  for (i = 0; i < l; i++) {
    digit = st.substring(l-i-1,l-i);
    tproduct = parseInt(digit ,10)*mul;
    if (tproduct >= 10)
      sum += (tproduct % 10) + 1;
    else
      sum += tproduct;
    if (mul == 1)
      mul++;
    else
      mul--;
  }
  if ((sum % 10) == 0)
    return (true);
  else
    return (false);
}
function isAnyCard(cc){
  if (!isCreditCard(cc)){
alert("\\nYour Input Was Not A Valid\\nNumber For A Credit
Card\\n\\nRE-ENTER YOUR CREDIT CARD NUMBER\\n\\nEnter no dashes,
spaces\\nor other punctuation\\n");
  }		
}

As for Joel's point about billing addresses, that's called AVS (address
verification service). It is usually an option tha costs the account
holder extra per transaction but does stop fraudulent use of just a card
number and expiration date which appears on most credit card charge
receipts for OTC sales. It may also be required by the merchant account
underwriter depending on the nature of the sales. 

A better method which is now coming into use is the "physical
possession" number that appears on the back of the card. It's that 3
character number in the signature area. It's becoming more common to see
sites requiring that number as proof that you physically possess the
card. Since global AVS seems to be nearly impossible, use of this number
will become required on web purchases probably after the next rollover
of expiring cards.

keith



From cache at dowebs.com  Tue Jun 12 21:14:40 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Tue Jun 12 21:14:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refreshing a part of a page
References: <01b001c0f34a$93793ea0$51bb09ca@celeron433>
Message-ID: <3B26CC73.823BC17D@dowebs.com>

Subhendu Mohapatra wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>            How can I refresh a portion of a page. I am displaying a cricket
> score in my site where all text, images everything remains same and only the
> present score = ###   where the ### should refresh and get the value from
> the server ( say from a database ) in every one second. I don't want to
> refresh the whole page to display the current value of score. While reading
> the text ( content ) of the page this value only should dynamically keep on
> changing.

This can be done without using frames or applets using a partial page
refresh. Microsoft used to do this on their site's front page last year.
Most of that page remained static text which they wanted coming from the
cache but some parts changed frequently which they wanted to always come
from the server. iSyndicate also uses this to keep sending fresh
headlines to news sites that use them for content.

Just use an external javascript file with a document.write in the space
you want changed. If the .js file has changed and nothing else has
changed, then a reload will pull the new doc.write off the server and
pull the rest from the cache. 

"the current score of <script src=score.js></score> is too close to
call"
would produce 
"the current score of 6 to 7 is too close to call"
if the code on score.js is
document.write("6 to 7")
just keep rewriting the score.js on the server as the score changes.

You need to create a setTimeout to reload the page. HOWEVER, if you use
an external .js file only a location=location will force the kind of
refresh that will check for lastModifiedDate from the server. IE will
refresh with little visible activity but NN4 will show a definite reload
blink so you might want to test for NN and lengthen the timeout for NN.

There is a variation for this that does not do the lastModifiedDate
check but guarantees that the doc.write will always be refreshed without
checking. Instead of constantly rewriting a static .js file use a
dynamic .cgi to output the doc.write.

<script src=score.cgi?x></script>

Just have the cgi gather the output string from however you are storing
it on the server and print it back to the browser ala:
print qq~document.write("$theScore")~;

What's the query string "?x" all about? The query string is unimportant
on the server side, but the query string tells the browser "this is
always unique data" and will force the browser to always get the new
copy from the server regardless of lastModifiedDate (the filr score.cgi
will not have been modified, just it's output). 

keith



From garizpe at network.com.mx  Tue Jun 12 21:49:36 2001
From: garizpe at network.com.mx (Gustavo Arizpe)
Date: Tue Jun 12 21:49:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] cgi redirection based on referrer
References: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <002001c0f3bb$ba32cfe0$0100000a@area>

I have a parked domain in my main hosting account, and a cgi program for
redirecting depending on the accesed domain, as follows:

______
#!/usr/bin/perl

$server = $ENV{'HTTP_HOST'};
if ($server eq "usabilidad.org" || $server eq "www.parkeddomain.com") {
    print "Location: http://parkeddomain.com/somedirectory/\n\n;
    exit;
}

else {
    print "Location: http://$server/index.shtml\n\n";
    exit;
}

print "Content-type: text/htmlnn";
________


How can I make this cgi to redirect depending on the URL referrer, for
example, I'd all my visitors from google to be taken to some directory?

Thank you so much.

Gustavo





From gozz at gozz.com  Tue Jun 12 22:11:11 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Tue Jun 12 22:11:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] quicktime streaming
In-Reply-To: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
References: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <p04310100b74c82ab71c0@[192.168.1.100]>

>I have a bunch of mov files and notice they need to be completely 
>downloaded to play.
>http://www.netlivemusic.com/craig/
>
>does one have to install quicktime streaming server just to get 
>these babies to autoplay, or is
>there a server config (im running apache) that will do this?

No, don't need Quicktime server unless you want to do bandwidth 
negotiation or live streaming, or want to make it hard for people to 
save files to their hard drives ... dunno, maybe some other reasons.

The type of streaming you're looking for is a client-side thing. 
There is a client side setting:

Plug-in settings > Play Movies Automatically

You can override this setting by embedding the .mov in HTML and 
saying autoplay="true|false"

All you need to know is at:

<http://www.apple.com/quicktime/authoring/embed.html> and
<http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/tutorials/faststart.html>

-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From gozz at gozz.com  Tue Jun 12 22:52:01 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Tue Jun 12 22:52:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com>
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <p04310102b74c8dc90e6f@[192.168.1.100]>

Thanks for the answers Scott and Poojie, although it wasn't what I 
wanted to hear. I've been staring at screen for hour.

Does it not seem exactly the OPPOSITE of what should logically be 
done if Win 2K Pro is truly designed for developers, but they want to 
prevent it from being used as an actual web server? Allowing multiple 
simultaneous connections but only one web site? I mean, like raise 
your hand if ever have to have more than a single simultaneous 
connection to a website on your workstation ... looking pretty empty 
out there ... OK, now lets see hands for those that have more than 
one web site on your hard drive that you need to frequently 
change/edit ... woah.

Now that's innovation for the good of the consumer alright.

Linux becomes more appealing with each breath. It can't be that rough ...
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Jun 12 23:10:27 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Jun 12 23:10:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] cgi redirection based on referrer
In-Reply-To: <002001c0f3bb$ba32cfe0$0100000a@area>
References: <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612210410.02ef7e48@baratta.com>

At 08:48 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:

>How can I make this cgi to redirect depending on the URL referrer, for
>example, I'd all my visitors from google to be taken to some directory?

$referer = $ENV{'REFERER'};
if (index($referer,"google") > 0) {
    print "Location: http://www.go.here\n\n";
}


---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Jun 12 23:24:31 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Jun 12 23:24:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] cgi redirection based on referrer
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612210410.02ef7e48@baratta.com>
References: <002001c0f3bb$ba32cfe0$0100000a@area>
 <3B26B160.4895EDFB@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010612212118.02e7a370@baratta.com>

At 09:07 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:
>At 08:48 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote:
>
>>How can I make this cgi to redirect depending on the URL referrer, for
>>example, I'd all my visitors from google to be taken to some directory?
>
>$referer = $ENV{'REFERER'};
>if (index($referer,"google") > 0) {
>    print "Location: http://www.go.here\n\n";
>}

Sorry....

it should be:

$ENV{'HTTP_REFERER'}


---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys




From darrenn at qldstate.com.au  Tue Jun 12 23:36:16 2001
From: darrenn at qldstate.com.au (Darren Neimke)
Date: Tue Jun 12 23:36:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
Message-ID: <13FACCC42EB7754AA39E16228480C607026074@brismail.qldstate.com.au>

Sorry to come in so late on this one, I joined the list 2 weeks ago and
I'm about 4 days behind in reading the POSTS.

On Thursday, 7 June 2001 1:46 AM, Peter-Paul Koch said:

	> Never use pt, always use px. px gives the most reliable
cross-browser 
	> cross-OS result. See

	> http://www.alistapart.com/stories/fear4/

I thought that using 'em' gave the most consistent results.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Darren Neimke



From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Jun 12 23:43:06 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue Jun 12 23:43:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
In-Reply-To: <13FACCC42EB7754AA39E16228480C607026074@brismail.qldstate.com.au>
Message-ID: <3B26B637.32128.4F6E227@localhost>

> From: "Darren Neimke" <darrenn at qldstate.com.au>
> 
>  > Never use pt, always use px. px gives the most reliable
> cross-browser 
>  > cross-OS result. See
> 
>  > http://www.alistapart.com/stories/fear4/
> 
> I thought that using 'em' gave the most consistent results.

nup, sorry...

but you can test it yourself...

create a page with a CSS doc in ems, and one in px... then view it 
in various browsers on various platforms...




From thesite at lists.evolt.org  Tue Jun 12 23:45:47 2001
From: thesite at lists.evolt.org (thesite at lists.evolt.org)
Date: Tue Jun 12 23:45:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for June 12, 2001
Message-ID: <200106130445.f5D4jhO29192@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for June 12, 2001

RIP Netscape  by: anj
http://evolt.org/article/headlines/1/11422/index.html


U.S. Government Accessibility Deadline Looming  by: .jeff
http://evolt.org/article/headlines/1/11477/index.html


Happy reading...

the evolt.org admin team





From rex at ibsys.com  Wed Jun 13 01:12:18 2001
From: rex at ibsys.com (Sorgatz, Rex)
Date: Wed Jun 13 01:12:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] hrefs that pass info to applications
Message-ID: <9E35C54B0C7AD411B5C1009027DE539906F443C7@MSPMX01>

I've noticed lately a few applications that provide a linking mechanism with
HREFs. For example:

<a href="aim:goim?screenname=ibsrex&amp;message=Hi+Rex.">Click me to launch
an AOL Instant Messenger window to a given screen name.</a>

The mechanism works similar to <a href="mailto:...>.

Here's another one:

<a href="nap:search?artist=Mogwai&amp;title=Rock+Action">Search for Mogwai's
"Rock Action" on Napster</a>

So, "aim" launches AOL-IM and "nap" launches Napster -- does anyone know of
a resource that lists others? (I tried using "msn" to see if I could get it
to launch Microsoft's Messenger -- no go.) Is passing variables through a
string directly to an application common in other ways that I've never
encountered? The phenomena is causing me think of interesting
possibilities...

Any thoughts?

-Rex




From noah at tookish.net  Wed Jun 13 01:37:18 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Wed Jun 13 01:37:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
In-Reply-To: <3B26B637.32128.4F6E227@localhost>
References: <13FACCC42EB7754AA39E16228480C607026074@brismail.qldstate.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613022859.009ec800@tookish.net>

At 12:39 AM 13/06/2001 -0400, aardvark wrote:
> > From: "Darren Neimke" <darrenn at qldstate.com.au>
> >
> >  > Never use pt, always use px. px gives the most reliable
> > cross-browser
> >  > cross-OS result. See
> >
> >  > http://www.alistapart.com/stories/fear4/
> >
> > I thought that using 'em' gave the most consistent results.
>
>nup, sorry...

The advantage of using em, though, as I understand it, is that control over 
the font size remains in the hands of the user. For example, if you set a 
font at 15px, it will show up at 15px for everyone, regardless of the font 
size settings in their browser. If you use em you won't get the same 
consistency, but people will be able to change the text size via the 
browser, which seems to be a pretty significant accessibility issue.

Cheers,
Noah




From darrenn at qldstate.com.au  Wed Jun 13 02:02:19 2001
From: darrenn at qldstate.com.au (Darren Neimke)
Date: Wed Jun 13 02:02:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
Message-ID: <13FACCC42EB7754AA39E16228480C607029373@brismail.qldstate.com.au>

Thanks Guys,

	> If you use em you won't get the same 
	> consistency, but people will be able to change the text size
via the 
	> browser, which seems to be a pretty significant accessibility
issue.

Yep, yep, nod, nod.

I think that it was the useability thingy that I was remembering.  For
example, if you were to code a page thus...


<SPAN STYLE="font-size: '1em'">
This is some text that is marked in EM's This is some text that is
marked in EM's</SPAN>

<P><!--Whitespace--></P>

<SPAN STYLE="font-size: '12px'">
This is some text that is marked in PT's This is some text that is
marked in PT's</SPAN>



...And a visually impaired user (or anyone for that matter) chose to
view pages with TEXT-SIZE set to largest, then they may find themselves
squinting at your 2nd paragraph.

Although I can now understand that if you are required to have full
control of your page real estate then you may choose to go with 'px' for
that reason. 


Cheers,

Darren Neimke
Programmer
Queensland State Home Loans
Ph: 3017 8811

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e-mail.




From andre at torrez.org  Wed Jun 13 02:42:48 2001
From: andre at torrez.org (andre torrez)
Date: Wed Jun 13 02:42:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] hrefs that pass info to applications
In-Reply-To: <9E35C54B0C7AD411B5C1009027DE539906F443C7@MSPMX01>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010613000807.03225df0@torrez.org@pop.cyberverse.com>

The way this works is actually pretty simple, and it's not really a 
function of your browser as much as your Windows OS and a particular 
application registering a new URL protocol like "aim:" or "nap:". So an 
actual list of protocols can't be easily compiled since any install program 
could register itself on your computer.

Caution: mucking about in your registry is not a good thing unless you know 
what you're doing, so please don't start messing with your registry unless 
you're confident you won't screw something up.

This page describes how you can set up a handler for a new URL protocol:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/networking/pluggable/overview/appendix_a.asp

Once you've made a handler all you need to do is write a Windows 
application that will get launched when you click a certain type of link. I 
wrote one once to handle "mailto:" links that would launch a Telnet 
session, log me into my account and fire up Pine instead of Outlook.


-Andre






At 01:13 AM 6/13/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>I've noticed lately a few applications that provide a linking mechanism with
>HREFs. For example:
>
><a href="aim:goim?screenname=ibsrex&amp;message=Hi+Rex.">Click me to launch
>an AOL Instant Messenger window to a given screen name.</a>
>
>The mechanism works similar to <a href="mailto:...>.
>
>Here's another one:
>
><a href="nap:search?artist=Mogwai&amp;title=Rock+Action">Search for Mogwai's
>"Rock Action" on Napster</a>
>
>So, "aim" launches AOL-IM and "nap" launches Napster -- does anyone know of
>a resource that lists others? (I tried using "msn" to see if I could get it
>to launch Microsoft's Messenger -- no go.) Is passing variables through a
>string directly to an application common in other ways that I've never
>encountered? The phenomena is causing me think of interesting
>possibilities...
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>-Rex
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Jun 13 05:30:40 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Jun 13 05:30:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
In-Reply-To: <p04310102b74c58eea36a@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIKEJKIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

Erik, I'll check into this for you.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erik Mattheis
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:45 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
> 
> 
> Reading the MM site, this seems to be implied, but not stated implicitly:
> 
> Do all the shipping MM products that include CF Studio have a single 
> user version of CF Server 5?
> 
> You can tell I'm sitting here pondering updating da Windoze box. Thanks.




From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 13 06:48:41 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Jun 13 06:48:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613022859.009ec800@tookish.net>
References: <3B26B637.32128.4F6E227@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B271A38.9259.67D973F@localhost>

> From: noah <noah at tookish.net>
> 
> The advantage of using em, though, as I understand it, is that control
> over the font size remains in the hands of the user. For example, if
> you set a font at 15px, it will show up at 15px for everyone,
> regardless of the font size settings in their browser. If you use em
> you won't get the same consistency, but people will be able to change
> the text size via the browser, which seems to be a pretty significant
> accessibility issue.

this is absolutely true, however, the original question was about 
consistency of display...

that's one of the trade-offs, though... once ems are correctly 
interpreted by browsers, they will be a much better choice, if not 
the best choice...




From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Wed Jun 13 08:07:11 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Wed Jun 13 08:07:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <p04310101b74c564a0487@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMIELHEOAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

Erik Mattheis [gozz at gozz.com] asked:

> -----Original Message-----
> I see that Win 2K Pro can have only "1 virtual server" ... does this
> apply to localhost? In other words, if I am using Win 2K Pro to build
> websites, could I open up the IIS console and select what directory
> is the home directory for localhost like I can in NT 4/IIS 4?

Yes.

I run Win2k Pro and have forty or so web sites on it which I test and
develop locally before uploading to the remote servers.

I don't mess around changing the root directory, just loading
http://localhost/morris or whatever.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/





From brian.j.boerner at lmco.com  Wed Jun 13 08:23:17 2001
From: brian.j.boerner at lmco.com (Boerner, Brian J)
Date: Wed Jun 13 08:23:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly
Message-ID: <91A6D3929D6BD4119B8C0008C7E66564041CE0F6@emss04m03.ems.lmco.com>

Noticed the same thing with the FW DHTML

but guess what? every time you reload the page you increase the size of the
cache file due to the menus so i don't know what benefit cache has in this
situation

do this - clear cache, open (empty) cache folder, load your page, shift
reload your page a few times - I dunno the why's of it but I do know that it
will exceed any limits you set in your prefs on your browser cache folder

this is odd when compared to webreference menuing... any ideas??


np. Neil, "I am a Child"



-----Original Message-----
From: Stephens, Ann [mailto:anns at ci.concord.ca.us]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:02 PM
To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly


> I've just updated a site (http://www.ci.concord.ca.us) that uses
> JavaScript menus (from Fireworks popup feature) and has a few more
> graphics than I've used in the past. The site loads too slowly and I'd
> like suggestions on getting it to load more quickly. I think it's the
> JavaScript that's the main culprit. The menus and the script that runs
> them are being called from the pages. I noticed these scripts have been
> cached on my computer so I'm assuming they're quicker to get to than if
> they weren't. (I did a test without the fancy menus and the page loaded
> pretty quickly.) Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
Ann Stephens


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com  Wed Jun 13 08:24:37 2001
From: IanOrnstein at NC.SLR.com (Ornstein, Ian)
Date: Wed Jun 13 08:24:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly
Message-ID: <BD40369342D0D411BB7600D0B7B9625E733875@excnc4.nc.slr.com>

I took a look and yes it does take excessively long to load even on our
lan connection.
Although it looks nice when it finishes.

Have you tried loading similar page without the menus?

I read some of the javascript and saw that it builds menu
objects at run time. I wonder if you were to sacrifice the
maintainablilty by prebuilding the menu objects, would it run
any faster?

Also, if you are deliberately buffering until the
entire page is loaded before sending anything to the
browser, you may want to change it so that is does
send *something* while it is finishing loading.

HTH

Ian Ornstein - Programmer and Web Developer
IBM Global Services, Global AMS Delivery
(704) 509-8022 


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Crawford [mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:57 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Site Loads too Slowly


"Stephens, Ann" wrote:
> > I've just updated a site (http://www.ci.concord.ca.us) that uses
> > JavaScript menus (from Fireworks popup feature) and has a few more
> > graphics than I've used in the past. The site loads too slowly and I'd
> > like suggestions on getting it to load more quickly. I think it's the
> > JavaScript that's the main culprit. The menus and the script that runs
> > them are being called from the pages. I noticed these scripts have been
> > cached on my computer so I'm assuming they're quicker to get to than if
> > they weren't. (I did a test without the fancy menus and the page loaded
> > pretty quickly.) Any help would be greatly appreciated!



From dennis at awsnet.com  Wed Jun 13 09:05:02 2001
From: dennis at awsnet.com (Dennis Pipper)
Date: Wed Jun 13 09:05:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Web Stat Software
In-Reply-To: <3B268C01.5030901@starkmedia.com>
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302A@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613095806.00ad4ca8@mail.awsnet.com>

I second Daniel's observation.  Analog is great and very configurable.  You 
can also use Reportmagic http://www.reportmagic.com/ with Analog for a 
pretty report with graphics and such.  By the way they are both free and 
worth every penny!

Sorry for chiming in so late.

Dennis Pipper
dennis at awsnet.com


Daniel J. Cody wrote:
>The evolt stats are generated with analog(http://www.analog.cx ) which 
>isn't the prettiest thing out of the box, but you can configure it.




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Jun 13 09:19:03 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Jun 13 09:19:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
In-Reply-To: <p04310102b74c58eea36a@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIGELAIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

Erik, are you talking about current product boxes? Are you talking about
future boxes copies of Studio 4.5.1? Are you asking if we will _eventually_
ship a CF5 single ip version in general?

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erik Mattheis
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:45 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
>
>
> Reading the MM site, this seems to be implied, but not stated implicitly:
>
> Do all the shipping MM products that include CF Studio have a single
> user version of CF Server 5?
>
> You can tell I'm sitting here pondering updating da Windoze box. Thanks.
> --
>
> - Erik Mattheis
>
> A poltergeist in the flesh.
>
> (612) 827 3963
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From isdarksaber at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 13 09:51:03 2001
From: isdarksaber at hotmail.com (Oliver Lockwood)
Date: Wed Jun 13 09:51:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables
Message-ID: <F134449kFL1ahdtT8es00009f98@hotmail.com>


Is there a way for the same vaiable to be defined inside and outside a 
function?

ie

function getNum
{
    whatever = num1;
    alert(num1);
}

alert(num1)

----

num 1 outside the function would be the same as inside the function... I 
know this doesn't work, it just says that num1 is undefined, but is there 
any alternative method for this to work?
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com  Wed Jun 13 09:52:08 2001
From: Kerin.Cosford at current-drugs.com (Kerin Cosford)
Date: Wed Jun 13 09:52:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables
Message-ID: <B630B725359AD411967B00508BFC8E90026C70FA@severin.cursci.co.uk>

er....

declare the variable outside of a function?

-----Original Message-----
From: Oliver Lockwood [mailto:isdarksaber at hotmail.com]
Sent: 13 June 2001 15:36
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables




Is there a way for the same vaiable to be defined inside and outside a 
function?

ie

function getNum
{
    whatever = num1;
    alert(num1);
}

alert(num1)

----

num 1 outside the function would be the same as inside the function... I 
know this doesn't work, it just says that num1 is undefined, but is there 
any alternative method for this to work?
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From bekah at nightvisions.com  Wed Jun 13 09:54:23 2001
From: bekah at nightvisions.com (Rebekah Murphy)
Date: Wed Jun 13 09:54:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables
Message-ID: <200106131100311.SM00170@[206.15.137.219]>

> Is there a way for the same vaiable to be defined inside
> and outside a 
> function?
> 
> ie
> 
> function getNum
> {
>    whatever = num1;
>    alert(num1);
> }
> 
> alert(num1)

just define the variable first, like this:

var num1

function getNum
{
   whatever = num1;
   alert(num1);
}

alert(num1)

-Bekah
-
http://NightVisions.com *** Web Design and Renovation
http://nightvisions.com/homepage - Portfolio
http://nightvisions.com/ooey_gui - Icons
http://nightvisions.com/personal - Personal




From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Wed Jun 13 10:10:23 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Wed Jun 13 10:10:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613022859.009ec800@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMAELJEOAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

noah [noah at tookish.net] wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> If you use em you won't get the same
> consistency, but people will be able to change the text size via the
> browser, which seems to be a pretty significant accessibility issue.

True although ems don't seem to render the same in Netscape as they do in
IE.

Try taking a look at http://www.web-designers.co.uk/stuff/font.htm in
different browsers and on different platforms to see what I mean.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/





From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Jun 13 10:11:38 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed Jun 13 10:11:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables
References: <F134449kFL1ahdtT8es00009f98@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801c0f41a$c3eb7910$2860398a@newcos.com>

Oliver,

> Is there a way for the same vaiable to be defined inside and outside a
> function?
...
> function getNum
> {
>     whatever = num1;
>     alert(num1);
> }
>
> alert(num1)

    Yes, but your example shows some confusion, so I'm not entirely clear
what it is you're asking. To answer the question most literally, you can do
this:

<script type="text/javascript">
   <!--
      var whatever = "foo" ;

      function getNum() {
         var whatever = "bar" ;
         alert(whatever)
      }

      alert(whatever) ;
   // -->
</script>

    Doing this makes the "whatever" variable declared inside of the function
separate from the one declared outside the function, however. It is
generally *not* advisable to use the same name for both a function-level
variable and a page-level variable because it can be very confusing to
debug.
    If that doesn't answer your question, please clarify and someone on the
list will be sure to help out.

James Aylard




From namenn at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 13 10:49:48 2001
From: namenn at hotmail.com (Ryan Romanelli)
Date: Wed Jun 13 10:49:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables
Message-ID: <F63AWFswl3tTUqp2T0a00015fe1@hotmail.com>

before writing the function declare num1 as a variable.  do

var num1 = "";

see if that works

ryan
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From noah at tookish.net  Wed Jun 13 11:15:54 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Wed Jun 13 11:15:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Font size problems with CSS & NN 4.73(win)
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMAELJEOAA.richard.morris@web-designers.
 co.uk>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613022859.009ec800@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613121006.00ac9390@tookish.net>

At 02:55 PM 13/06/2001 +0100, Richard H. Morris wrote:
>True although ems don't seem to render the same in Netscape as they do in
>IE.

I think that the idea is for 1 em to be the browser's regular text size 
(i.e., the size that the text would be if the text size was not specified 
via CSS or HTML), so in theory the size should vary across platforms based 
on the default (or chosen) text size on each platform.

Of course, theory and reality can be two very different things.

One problem I've had with using em is that IE seems to always relate the 
size to the browser default, whereas NS (4.7, at least), relates it to the 
parent element: so in IE if you have a <p> with text size 0.8em inside a 
<td> with text size 0.8 em, the <p> text will show up as 80% of the browser 
default size; in NS it will show up as 80% of the parent element's size 
(the <td>), which is in turn 80% of the browser default size (so 80% of 80% 
of 1 em). Nest a few tags and it doesn't take long for your text to become 
a bumpy little line in NS.

Cheers,
Noah




From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Wed Jun 13 12:02:21 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Wed Jun 13 12:02:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC25C@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C11@ITG_B02>

Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Richard H. Morris
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:57 AM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Erik Mattheis [gozz at gozz.com] asked:

> -----Original Message-----
> I see that Win 2K Pro can have only "1 virtual server" ... does this
> apply to localhost? In other words, if I am using Win 2K Pro to build
> websites, could I open up the IIS console and select what directory
> is the home directory for localhost like I can in NT 4/IIS 4?

Yes.

I run Win2k Pro and have forty or so web sites on it which I test and
develop locally before uploading to the remote servers.

I don't mess around changing the root directory, just loading
http://localhost/morris or whatever.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Jun 13 12:13:41 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed Jun 13 12:13:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
References: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C11@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <007b01c0f42b$d1afe2f0$2860398a@newcos.com>

Brian,

> Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
> machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?

    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove Programs
from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button in
the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install by
clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
two.

hth,
James Aylard




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Jun 13 12:19:19 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Jun 13 12:19:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Java Script and variables
In-Reply-To: <F63AWFswl3tTUqp2T0a00015fe1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEMDHNAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ryan,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Ryan Romanelli
:
: before writing the function declare num1
: as a variable.
:
: var num1 = "";
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

fwiw, i'd like to correct your usage of the term "declare".

declaring a variable is done by using the "var" keyword and the name of the
variable.

var foo;

your example is declaring and initializing the variable.  if you simply
declare a variable without initializing it with a value, it's value is
"undefined".

var foo = 1;

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Wed Jun 13 12:53:22 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Wed Jun 13 12:53:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC269@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C16@ITG_B02>

Thank you!   That worked.  Boy and to think that I have been tormenting
myself all of this time without that!

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of James Aylard
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:11 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Brian,

> Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
> machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?

    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove Programs
from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button in
the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install by
clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
two.

hth,
James Aylard


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From gozz at gozz.com  Wed Jun 13 13:01:32 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Wed Jun 13 13:01:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
In-Reply-To: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIGELAIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
References: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIGELAIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <p04310101b74d57594dc7@[192.168.1.100]>

>Erik, are you talking about current product boxes?
>  Are you talking about
>future boxes copies of Studio 4.5.1? Are you asking if we will _eventually_
>ship a CF5 single ip version in general?

Yes, in general ... like CF Studio 4 came with a version of the 
server (4) that could only be used locally so you could test your 
work before uploading it to a live server. What I saw on the MM site 
was that CFStudio 5 listed "Cold Fusion Server for testing...." in 
the system requirements, but this isn't listed for CF Studio/UltraDev.


-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From fayec at canada.com  Wed Jun 13 13:05:47 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (FayeC)
Date: Wed Jun 13 13:05:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
Message-ID: <3B27AAD3.ABD8A7FB@canada.com>

Hi,

I have PWS running on my computer for testing purposes. For some reason
it won't load the pages placed in the wwwroot folder...
I thought that maybe it was because of my firewall but it won't work
even if I turn it off completely...
I have changed the default page to index.html and have placed the files
and the images folder in C:\Inetpub\wwwroot folder.
I wonder if anything I have installed here might be interfering with
it...

TIA,

FayeC



From David at softv.net  Wed Jun 13 13:33:23 2001
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Wed Jun 13 13:33:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
Message-ID: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL>

What is the error you are getting? Are you getting a 404 or "page
cannot be displayed"?

-----Original Message-----
From: FayeC [mailto:fayec at canada.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:03 PM
To: Evolt
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....


Hi,

I have PWS running on my computer for testing purposes. For some
reason
it won't load the pages placed in the wwwroot folder...
I thought that maybe it was because of my firewall but it won't work
even if I turn it off completely...
I have changed the default page to index.html and have placed the
files
and the images folder in C:\Inetpub\wwwroot folder.
I wonder if anything I have installed here might be interfering with
it...

TIA,

FayeC

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Wed Jun 13 13:49:48 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Wed Jun 13 13:49:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC26B@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C1E@ITG_B02>

Maybe I spoke too soon.  The server services are up and running but I can't
connect to them.  Anyone using MS Interdev with this setup?  It is telling
me that it cannot connect to the server.  I even try the IP address.

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Brian King
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:48 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Thank you!   That worked.  Boy and to think that I have been tormenting
myself all of this time without that!

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of James Aylard
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:11 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Brian,

> Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
> machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?

    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove Programs
from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button in
the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install by
clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
two.

hth,
James Aylard


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From rob_goodyear at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 13 13:53:28 2001
From: rob_goodyear at yahoo.com (Robert Goodyear)
Date: Wed Jun 13 13:53:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
In-Reply-To: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL>
Message-ID: <20010613185037.86800.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

Check that anonymous access is enabled in the IIS Console.

--- David at softv.net wrote:
> What is the error you are getting? Are you getting a 404 or "page
> cannot be displayed"?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FayeC [mailto:fayec at canada.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:03 PM
> To: Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have PWS running on my computer for testing purposes. For some
> reason
> it won't load the pages placed in the wwwroot folder...
> I thought that maybe it was because of my firewall but it won't work
> even if I turn it off completely...
> I have changed the default page to index.html and have placed the
> files
> and the images folder in C:\Inetpub\wwwroot folder.
> I wonder if anything I have installed here might be interfering with
> it...
> 
> TIA,
> 
> FayeC
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Wed Jun 13 13:58:23 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Wed Jun 13 13:58:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC26F@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C1F@ITG_B02>

Never mind.  Brain fart.  I forgot to install the server extensions.

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Brian King
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:44 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Maybe I spoke too soon.  The server services are up and running but I can't
connect to them.  Anyone using MS Interdev with this setup?  It is telling
me that it cannot connect to the server.  I even try the IP address.

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Brian King
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:48 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Thank you!   That worked.  Boy and to think that I have been tormenting
myself all of this time without that!

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of James Aylard
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:11 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Brian,

> Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
> machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?

    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove Programs
from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button in
the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install by
clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
two.

hth,
James Aylard


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Jun 13 14:09:09 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Jun 13 14:09:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] CF 5 single user
In-Reply-To: <p04310101b74d57594dc7@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIIENJIOAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

Studio 4.5 will continue to ship w/ the single ip version of server 4.5.
Studio 5 will be the first version to have the single ip cf 5.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erik Mattheis
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:58 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CF 5 single user
>
>
> >Erik, are you talking about current product boxes?
> >  Are you talking about
> >future boxes copies of Studio 4.5.1? Are you asking if we will
> _eventually_
> >ship a CF5 single ip version in general?
>
> Yes, in general ... like CF Studio 4 came with a version of the
> server (4) that could only be used locally so you could test your
> work before uploading it to a live server. What I saw on the MM site
> was that CFStudio 5 listed "Cold Fusion Server for testing...." in
> the system requirements, but this isn't listed for CF Studio/UltraDev.
>
>
> --
>
> - Erik Mattheis
>
> A poltergeist in the flesh.
>
> (612) 827 3963
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From bharoche at usa.net  Wed Jun 13 14:15:34 2001
From: bharoche at usa.net (Bob Haroche)
Date: Wed Jun 13 14:15:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
References: <3B27AAD3.ABD8A7FB@canada.com>
Message-ID: <00f301c0f43c$d0ac45e0$9865fea9@OFFICE>

How are you calling the page? Presumably:

http://localhost/page.html

or 

http://[machine]/page.html

(where [machine] is the name of your computer)


Bob Haroche


____________________________
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
P.O. Box 694
Occidental, Ca  95465
Tel:  707.874.2710
Fax: 707.874.2716
http://www.OnPointSolutions.com




From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Wed Jun 13 14:20:10 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Wed Jun 13 14:20:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC271@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C20@ITG_B02>

I am still getting an error.  It is telling me that the Front Page server
extensions are not loaded.  I go to the management console and look and I
have them loaded.  I can check the extensions.  Interdev is creating the
project folder and virtual directory on the server because  I see them
there.  It just can't connect to them.
I am going to go back to the old way of doing it if I can't resolve this
soon.

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Brian King
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:53 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Never mind.  Brain fart.  I forgot to install the server extensions.

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Brian King
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:44 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Maybe I spoke too soon.  The server services are up and running but I can't
connect to them.  Anyone using MS Interdev with this setup?  It is telling
me that it cannot connect to the server.  I even try the IP address.

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Brian King
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:48 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Thank you!   That worked.  Boy and to think that I have been tormenting
myself all of this time without that!

Brian W. King

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of James Aylard
Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:11 PM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

Brian,

> Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
> machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?

    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove Programs
from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button in
the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install by
clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
two.

hth,
James Aylard


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Jun 13 14:38:39 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Jun 13 14:38:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493049@gate.ti3.com>

in the site properties, under the "Server Extensions" tab, do you have the
"enable authoring" checkbox checked?

If InterDev can create the folders and stuff, you are talking to the IIS and
the site. Where can you not connect to them: browser? InterDev? IIS Manager?

dex

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian King [mailto:BKing at Impact-Technologies.com]
> have them loaded.  I can check the extensions.  Interdev is 
> creating the
> project folder and virtual directory on the server because  I see them
> there.  It just can't connect to them.



From gina at sitediva.com  Wed Jun 13 14:40:40 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Wed Jun 13 14:40:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Conundrum
In-Reply-To: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLMEKPJOAA.gina@sitediva.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLOEPMJOAA.gina@sitediva.com>

Thanks to Jay and Janet for responding with their ideas--gave me alot to chew
on! :-) Doesn't anyone else have anything to add? I'm really eager for some
advice here.

Here's a copy of the original post, in shorter form:
----------------------

|I am having a problem with the direction I need to take with my site.

|My target audience is potential/existing small to medium business
|clients, *and* professional design firms that need help from a
freelancer/subcontractor.

|I have thought of having the whole shebang at one site where the visitor
|picks which area to go into--but I'm not sure a potential client would really
|know what to do...I'm playing with a tentative splash page design here:
http://www.sitediva.com/sitetest/

|Do you see enough guidance about which audience should go where--or do
|you think I should just separate the audiences with two different sites, maybe
|sitediva.net for the outsourcers, and sitediva.com for the clients???
|Any input?

|Has anyone else tried/succeeded/failed in catering to both audiences with one
|site? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Gina





From webshot at neoncowboy.com  Wed Jun 13 14:42:30 2001
From: webshot at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Wed Jun 13 14:42:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
In-Reply-To: <20010613185037.86800.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAGEBNDNAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>

I got this from one of my better clients yesterday...

>we don't rank/show up on search engines at the moment.
> Somebody was in
> and pitched me on creating an entry page for search engines with 'Top dog'
> software to get us showing up and ranked.  We pay only based on
> how we place in
> the search engines.  I am considering going that route to
> increase hits.... what
> do you think?

I can agree that they need help...but I don't really want to help them with
this...learning the intricacies of search engine placementn and patiently
tweaking code a little at at time to produce the maximum level of exposure
is not why I got into this field. I *do* feel obligated to help them with
this though, and see it as sort of my responsibility since I built and
maintain their site. All of their pages feature titles, descriptions and
keywords...so I haven't been totally derelict in duty.

I need some help.

Is this 'Top Dog' thing worth its salt? I'm afraid of giving up a little
control to a 'search engine strategist' or whatever, and losing my nice site
maintenance contract when they offer to undercut me. Do any of you work with
people providing these services that you would reccomend?

thanks,
John




From chrisg at gsnet.com  Wed Jun 13 15:01:31 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Wed Jun 13 15:01:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
In-Reply-To: <CGEAKIJJHPCINCPBHCDAGEBNDNAA.webshot@neoncowboy.com>
Message-ID: <B74D220E.3746%chrisg@gsnet.com>

Hi John,

When I create a site for a client I include some details about how I
optimize their pages as best as I can, based upon the content of the time.
I also do a one-time search engine submission with WebPosition Gold.  That's
standard practice for me. No follow-up, no ongoing tweaking. I used to build
that into my quotes in the past, but almost all my clients ended up trying
to cut a deal and those were the first to go. They'd much rather eye candy
than more traffic, apparently.

But in having said that search engine technology is very much a part of my
job, be it at my day job or on the side.  Good search engine rankings have
proven (in my case) to be better than most types of advertising, and
therefore I put a lot of weight on completing or implementing an ongoing
search engine strategy.

Our clients get fax-spam from this company that allegedly does search engine
indexing and part of their fax is a chart based upon one specific keyword
that they don't show up well for.  As it turns out this particular company
was a scam - but it got a few of our clients in a bit of a tizzy over it.
What I recommend is if you could get as much information about what type of
searches this person was doing with what keywords on what search engines,
that would help you see the validity of his visit.  Also going through the
referrer logs to see where people are coming from (i.e. if the person says
'you get no results from Northern Light' depending on your demographic/logs
it may not matter...)

Anyway. I'm sort of rambling here...  Our solution here is if the client's
willing to pay a small monthly fee we can set up monthly tracking reports
through WebPosition which, after submission sees when the engines pick up
the site and tracks the rank.  Very cool.  The tool has paid for itself,
that's for sure.  

HTH a bit (and I don't feel I've completely explained things perfectly here,
so lemme know if I can explain things better).

Chris.

on 6/13/2001 1:38 PM, John Corry at webshot at neoncowboy.com wrote:

> I got this from one of my better clients yesterday...
> 
>> we don't rank/show up on search engines at the moment.
>> Somebody was in
>> and pitched me on creating an entry page for search engines with 'Top dog'
>> software to get us showing up and ranked.  We pay only based on
>> how we place in
>> the search engines.  I am considering going that route to
>> increase hits.... what
>> do you think?
> 
> I can agree that they need help...but I don't really want to help them with
> this...learning the intricacies of search engine placementn and patiently
> tweaking code a little at at time to produce the maximum level of exposure
> is not why I got into this field. I *do* feel obligated to help them with
> this though, and see it as sort of my responsibility since I built and
> maintain their site. All of their pages feature titles, descriptions and
> keywords...so I haven't been totally derelict in duty.
> 
> I need some help.
> 
> Is this 'Top Dog' thing worth its salt? I'm afraid of giving up a little
> control to a 'search engine strategist' or whatever, and losing my nice site
> maintenance contract when they offer to undercut me. Do any of you work with
> people providing these services that you would reccomend?
> 
> thanks,
> John




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Wed Jun 13 15:05:51 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Wed Jun 13 15:05:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Conundrum
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D020085153392F@ns.magisnetworks.com>

Haven't needed to do this yet, so this is theoretical stream of
consciousness:

Does the subcontracting content need to be securely separate from the end
user content, or can the .com site have a subtle link to the .net site (Deep
Pockets Click Here) ?  Will your clients really be distressed if they
discover that you subcontract for less than your home-grown projects? They
shouldn't be bothered but that assumes some common sense.

Does the content need to be divided at all? It should be no surprise to
clients that you subcontract, nor surprising to contractors that you have
your own clients. Make sure you're not complicating unnecessarily.

How will folks be directed to the site?
* search engine - they'll get to the correct site whether they're named
similarly or not, but there's the potential for confusion on return visits
* invitation - when you direct professional visitors, you'll specifically
point out the 'semi-private' address of sitediva.net and make sure they're
aware of the special pricing they're getting. they'll remember.
* word of mouth - if a client recommends you to someone interested in
subcontracting to you, they'll likely see the .com site first, but if they
like what they see they'll contact you and be directed to the .net site


Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gina K. Anderson [mailto:gina at sitediva.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 12:40 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Site Conundrum


Thanks to Jay and Janet for responding with their ideas--gave me alot to
chew
on! :-) Doesn't anyone else have anything to add? I'm really eager for some
advice here.

Here's a copy of the original post, in shorter form:
----------------------

|I am having a problem with the direction I need to take with my site.

|My target audience is potential/existing small to medium business
|clients, *and* professional design firms that need help from a
freelancer/subcontractor.

|I have thought of having the whole shebang at one site where the visitor
|picks which area to go into--but I'm not sure a potential client would
really
|know what to do...I'm playing with a tentative splash page design here:
http://www.sitediva.com/sitetest/

|Do you see enough guidance about which audience should go where--or do
|you think I should just separate the audiences with two different sites,
maybe
|sitediva.net for the outsourcers, and sitediva.com for the clients???
|Any input?

|Has anyone else tried/succeeded/failed in catering to both audiences with
one
|site? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Gina



From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Wed Jun 13 15:11:46 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Wed Jun 13 15:11:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533930@ns.magisnetworks.com>

A company for which I've done network support, but not web work uses a
search engine specialist. He's a contractor who works with their web design
team. His job is to make ensure search engine rankings for a specific group
of phrases.

He makes recommendations for the code (meta tags, content) and does the
submissions manually. At first it sounded like a lot of extra work, but they
asked me to verify that they were getting their money's worth, and they are.
They show up in the top ten (sometimes multiple times, freqently #1) in
every search engine I tried.

He works WITH the designers (also consultants, not in-house.) He makes it
his living and has no interest in taking away web work, so he's not
competition; he's added value.

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Corry [mailto:webshot at neoncowboy.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 12:39 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...

<snip>
I'm afraid of giving up a little
control to a 'search engine strategist' or whatever, and losing my nice site
maintenance contract when they offer to undercut me. Do any of you work with
people providing these services that you would reccomend?

thanks,
John
</snip>



From amccoy at altairtek.com  Wed Jun 13 15:33:46 2001
From: amccoy at altairtek.com (Alan Mccoy)
Date: Wed Jun 13 15:33:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
Message-ID: <270E7D3D7506D511B88400508BCDFA970CA465@EXCHANGE1>

The web shop I work for has a division that does ONLY search engine
placement consulting. They use Top Dog and a few other apps to maintain a
rapidly growing list of clients. I'm not sure of their exact methods, but
they are doing more business than they can keep up with. And I do know that
the work that they do on a site doesn't interfere with the design work that
we do on that same site. They're a pretty seamless bunch.

I think as long as you can draw clear lines of responsibility for site
development (like we do between our development staff and the search engine
placement staff) everything should go fairly smoothly.

<shameless plug> http://www.trycm.com </shameless plug>

Alan McCoy
amccoy at altairtek.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Corry [mailto:webshot at neoncowboy.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:39 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
> 
> 
> I got this from one of my better clients yesterday...
> 
> >we don't rank/show up on search engines at the moment.
> > Somebody was in
> > and pitched me on creating an entry page for search engines 
> with 'Top dog'
> > software to get us showing up and ranked.  We pay only based on
> > how we place in
> > the search engines.  I am considering going that route to
> > increase hits.... what
> > do you think?
> 
> I can agree that they need help...but I don't really want to 
> help them with
> this...learning the intricacies of search engine placementn 
> and patiently
> tweaking code a little at at time to produce the maximum 
> level of exposure
> is not why I got into this field. I *do* feel obligated to 
> help them with
> this though, and see it as sort of my responsibility since I built and
> maintain their site. All of their pages feature titles, 
> descriptions and
> keywords...so I haven't been totally derelict in duty.
> 
> I need some help.
> 
> Is this 'Top Dog' thing worth its salt? I'm afraid of giving 
> up a little
> control to a 'search engine strategist' or whatever, and 
> losing my nice site
> maintenance contract when they offer to undercut me. Do any 
> of you work with
> people providing these services that you would reccomend?
> 
> thanks,
> John
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 



From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Wed Jun 13 15:56:37 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Wed Jun 13 15:56:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com> <p04310102b74c8dc90e6f@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <3B2924BB.4070102@visualbridge.tv>

Erik wrote:

> Linux becomes more appealing with each breath. It can't be that rough ... 


Heh, it's not. But give Apache for windows a try. It runs on Win2k pro 
just beautifully, it's reasonably simple to use, and you're not under 
any of those crazy restrictions.

-HTH

Bruce







From blastronaut at excite.com  Wed Jun 13 15:59:12 2001
From: blastronaut at excite.com (Michael McGlynn)
Date: Wed Jun 13 15:59:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
Message-ID: <25637510.992465777905.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>

I noticed that this site (http://www.interwoven.com/) has a very interesting
syntax on their CSS doc. My browser defaults to Lucida Sans Unicode, where
is it coming from? What does YOUR browser display?

.more
    {
    font-size: 8pt;
    font-family: 'X', sans-serif, arial, helvetica, verdana 'X';
    }


What does the 'X' do?

??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





From robin at rhastings.net  Wed Jun 13 16:11:18 2001
From: robin at rhastings.net (Robin Hastings)
Date: Wed Jun 13 16:11:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
In-Reply-To: <25637510.992465777905.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>
Message-ID: <NEBBIFLCCKJPIPBDKNBHIEGJDCAA.robin@rhastings.net>

>I noticed that this site (http://www.interwoven.com/) has a very interesting
>syntax on their CSS doc. My browser defaults to Lucida Sans Unicode, where
>is it coming from? What does YOUR browser display?
>
>.more
>    {
>    font-size: 8pt;
>    font-family: 'X', sans-serif, arial, helvetica, verdana 'X';
>    }
>
>
>What does the 'X' do?
>
>??????????????????
>michael mcglynn
>interface designer
>??????????????????

It looks like a fake font name to compensate for some browser quirks. A selection from the
"note" section of their CSS file reads:

"NOTES:
      for font-family, several alternative fonts are specified,
      followed finally by a supported generic family name
      ('serif', 'sans-serif', 'cursive', 'fantasy').

      Place the font-family declaration at the end of the list of
      declarations for a selector to account for an MSIE3 font
      declaration freak out

      For correct rendering across all three browsers include a
      fictitious font name enclosed in single quotes as your
      first font choice and a fictitious font name as your last
      choice. "

Since the X is fake, it would go to the next available font - the default sans-serif for
that machine, in your case it would be Lucida!

HTH,

Robin Hastings
Public Computer Center Coordinator
hastingsr at mrrl.org
(573) 634-6064 x242







From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Wed Jun 13 16:16:47 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Wed Jun 13 16:16:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533935@ns.magisnetworks.com>

I'm reading the CSS1 spec right now, and I don't get how putting a fake font
name first and last will make it cross browser.

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Hastings [mailto:robin at rhastings.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:08 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax


>I noticed that this site (http://www.interwoven.com/) has a very
interesting
>syntax on their CSS doc. My browser defaults to Lucida Sans Unicode, where
>is it coming from? What does YOUR browser display?
>
>.more
>    {
>    font-size: 8pt;
>    font-family: 'X', sans-serif, arial, helvetica, verdana 'X';
>    }
>
>
>What does the 'X' do?
>
>??????????????????
>michael mcglynn
>interface designer
>??????????????????

It looks like a fake font name to compensate for some browser quirks. A
selection from the
"note" section of their CSS file reads:

"NOTES:
      for font-family, several alternative fonts are specified,
      followed finally by a supported generic family name
      ('serif', 'sans-serif', 'cursive', 'fantasy').

      Place the font-family declaration at the end of the list of
      declarations for a selector to account for an MSIE3 font
      declaration freak out

      For correct rendering across all three browsers include a
      fictitious font name enclosed in single quotes as your
      first font choice and a fictitious font name as your last
      choice. "

Since the X is fake, it would go to the next available font - the default
sans-serif for
that machine, in your case it would be Lucida!

HTH,

Robin Hastings
Public Computer Center Coordinator
hastingsr at mrrl.org
(573) 634-6064 x242



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Wed Jun 13 16:20:27 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Jun 13 16:20:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2k permissions
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A060145F15F@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi gang,


I've got an ASP job that needs to read a file on a second server.

I'm getting some kind of 'permission denied' message.

This sounds like a "simple registry key update change" to me ... but that's
not the kind of thing I normally do.

Can you give me some key words to pass along to my off-shore team to help
them get this thing working?


Much Gracias,

RonL.




From data at data1701d.com  Wed Jun 13 16:26:02 2001
From: data at data1701d.com (Bill Mason)
Date: Wed Jun 13 16:26:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
In-Reply-To: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533935@ns.magisnetworks.co
 m>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010613142014.00a5c100@data1701d.com>

The first X works around an IE3 bug where if you have a font-family list 
and the browser doesn't have the first font in the list available to it, it 
will ignore all the fonts in the family list -- regardless of whether any 
of the other fonts are available to the browser or not.

I have no idea why you would need to end the font-family list with another 
X, though.

At 02:13 PM 6/13/01, Canfield, Joe wrote:
>I'm reading the CSS1 spec right now, and I don't get how putting a fake font
>name first and last will make it cross browser.
>
> >.more
> >    {
> >    font-size: 8pt;
> >    font-family: 'X', sans-serif, arial, helvetica, verdana 'X';
> >    }
> >
> >
> >What does the 'X' do?
>
>It looks like a fake font name to compensate for some browser quirks. A
>selection from the
>"note" section of their CSS file reads:
>
>"NOTES:
>       for font-family, several alternative fonts are specified,
>       followed finally by a supported generic family name
>       ('serif', 'sans-serif', 'cursive', 'fantasy').
>
>       Place the font-family declaration at the end of the list of
>       declarations for a selector to account for an MSIE3 font
>       declaration freak out
>
>       For correct rendering across all three browsers include a
>       fictitious font name enclosed in single quotes as your
>       first font choice and a fictitious font name as your last
>       choice. "
>
>Since the X is fake, it would go to the next available font - the default
>sans-serif for
>that machine, in your case it would be Lucida!


Bill Mason
data at data1701d.com
Dateline: Starfleet
http://www.data1701d.com
http://profile.guru.com/billmason




From webmaster at equilon-mrc.com  Wed Jun 13 17:03:04 2001
From: webmaster at equilon-mrc.com (James Aylard)
Date: Wed Jun 13 17:03:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010613142014.00a5c100@data1701d.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01c0f454$3e029240$2860398a@newcos.com>

Bill,

> The first X works around an IE3 bug where if you have a font-family list
> and the browser doesn't have the first font in the list available to it,
it
> will ignore all the fonts in the family list -- regardless of whether any
> of the other fonts are available to the browser or not.

    I assume that you are referencing the bug as described at
richinstyle.com [1]. But if so, then what would one gain by placing an "X"
as the first entry (which would cause all of the actual font families to be
ignored)? Did the interwoven folks get it wrong? Or is there some additional
workaround not cited on richinstyle?

> >       For correct rendering across all three browsers include a
> >       fictitious font name enclosed in single quotes as your
> >       first font choice and a fictitious font name as your last
> >       choice. "

    It would be interesting to know why they recommend this. It also
contradicts richinstyle's recommendation of only using double quotes around
names of font families [2]. Anyone?

James Aylard

1. http://www.richinstyle.com/bugs/ie3.html#mutiple
2. http://www.richinstyle.com/bugs/ie3.html#quote




From sgd at ti3.com  Wed Jun 13 17:13:28 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Wed Jun 13 17:13:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2k permissions
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493053@gate.ti3.com>

> 
> This sounds like a "simple registry key update change" to me 
> ... but that's
> not the kind of thing I normally do.

Good, cause that's not what it is =)

IIS runs under a userid (IUSR_<machinename>), which has Guest privileges.
That id needs to have access to the other machine. It's an NTFS permissions
tweak. If that's not enough detail, lemme know and I'll point out URLs and
or drum one up m'self...

de nada
sgd




From gina at sitediva.com  Wed Jun 13 17:26:38 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Wed Jun 13 17:26:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIFLCCKJPIPBDKNBHIEGJDCAA.robin@rhastings.net>
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLOEAGJPAA.gina@sitediva.com>

Robin, and all--

|Since the X is fake, it would go to the next available font - the
|default sans-serif for that machine, in your case it would be Lucida!

The font that displays at this site is illegible on my screen, see the
screenshot at:
http://www.freecfm.com/s/sitediva/screen1.gif

Eck! Actually, I saw this happen in one other site and just thought they messed
up. I've recently been futzing with my fonts however, so I think I may have done
something...how do I set the default sans-serif font? I tried going into the
Internet Explorer options, but it only lets me set Serif and Fixed.

LOL! I wonder if I should send this screenshot to Interwoven?

Gina




From DDenis at inlumen.com  Wed Jun 13 18:36:04 2001
From: DDenis at inlumen.com (Denis, David)
Date: Wed Jun 13 18:36:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
Message-ID: <842FC5D4D50A43469D9CBDE15917249101256977@nycexch.newsalert.com>

>     I assume that you are referencing the bug as described at
> richinstyle.com [1]. But if so, then what would one gain by 
> placing an "X"
> as the first entry (which would cause all of the actual font 
> families to be
> ignored)? Did the interwoven folks get it wrong? Or is there 
> some additional
> workaround not cited on richinstyle?

I have to wonder if it's worth this workaround in the first place.  For such
a small percentage who may be using IE3, mangling your CSS when the only
problem is they will get their default font.

Dave



From fayec at canada.com  Wed Jun 13 19:00:31 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:00:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
References: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL>
Message-ID: <3B27FDF9.45639E24@canada.com>

The page just doesn't load...maybe my firewall's settings are too
high....who knows....I might reinstall everything.....

David at softv.net wrote:
> 
> What is the error you are getting? Are you getting a 404 or "page
> cannot be displayed"?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FayeC [mailto:fayec at canada.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:03 PM
> To: Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have PWS running on my computer for testing purposes. For some
> reason
> it won't load the pages placed in the wwwroot folder...
> I thought that maybe it was because of my firewall but it won't work
> even if I turn it off completely...
> I have changed the default page to index.html and have placed the
> files
> and the images folder in C:\Inetpub\wwwroot folder.
> I wonder if anything I have installed here might be interfering with
> it...
> 
> TIA,
> 
> FayeC
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From john_meyer at geocities.com  Wed Jun 13 19:13:55 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:13:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
In-Reply-To: <3B27FDF9.45639E24@canada.com>
References: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613180909.00a01e40@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 07:57 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>The page just doesn't load...maybe my firewall's settings are too
>high....who knows....I might reinstall everything.....
>
>David at softv.net wrote:


Have you viewed the source on those pages when they load into the browser, 
and how are you accessing them?  Are you doing http://localhost/index.html ?




From fayec at canada.com  Wed Jun 13 19:18:55 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:18:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
References: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL> <5.1.0.14.0.20010613180909.00a01e40@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B28024B.86265B53@canada.com>

The pages load ok if I load them from a remote server but when I try to
load them from here I have to completely disable my firewall.....

John Meyer wrote:
> 
> At 07:57 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >The page just doesn't load...maybe my firewall's settings are too
> >high....who knows....I might reinstall everything.....
> >
> >David at softv.net wrote:
> 
> Have you viewed the source on those pages when they load into the browser,
> and how are you accessing them?  Are you doing http://localhost/index.html ?
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Wed Jun 13 19:19:40 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:19:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] save dynamic sites with lynx?
Message-ID: <200106140016.UAA24043@swiftsure.cnchost.com>

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URL: <http://lists.evolt.org/pipermail/thelist/attachments/20010613/92b3b2c2/attachment.txt>

From jcrawford at avencom.com  Wed Jun 13 19:23:46 2001
From: jcrawford at avencom.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:23:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] save dynamic sites with lynx?
References: <200106140016.UAA24043@swiftsure.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <3B280343.E94BD591@avencom.com>

nate koechley wrote:
> i'm pretty sure this has been addressed recently, so
> forgive me for asking again:
> 
> i'd like to be able to develop sites using php or
> something similar, and then be able to save the site
> as a static site for delivery to the client. (i'd
> like to use the efficiency of developing with an app
> server -- includes, etc)
> 
> i thought i remembered seeing a post about how to
> capture a dynamic site using the lynx browser, but
> for the life of me i cant find the thread. (i spent
> about an hour in the archives, in my inbox, and on
> google).
> 
> i'm not tied to the Lynx method if there are other
> suggestions to this problems...

This is the article in question:
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/loris20010420.php3

	- Joe
-- 
...................  Joe Crawford \\ Web Design & Development
.....  mailto:jcrawford at avencom.com \\ http://www.avencom.com
.... San Diego \\ CA \\ USA \\ AVENCOM: Set Your Sites Higher



From john_meyer at geocities.com  Wed Jun 13 19:29:36 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:29:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
In-Reply-To: <3B28024B.86265B53@canada.com>
References: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010613180909.00a01e40@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613182514.00a06190@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 08:16 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>The pages load ok if I load them from a remote server but when I try to
>load them from here I have to completely disable my firewall.....
>
>John Meyer wrote:


What firewall do you have?




From fayec at canada.com  Wed Jun 13 19:47:31 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:47:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
References: <439FDCB7FFC8D311AE5E006008909CBB3CF138@IMAIL>
	 <5.1.0.14.0.20010613180909.00a01e40@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010613182514.00a06190@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B280900.3AC9662B@canada.com>

Zone Alarm 2.6.88
I noticed that it is way more paranoid than the previous version...some
of my programs won't connect now with the same settings I used to have
on the previous versions...
Oh well...

John Meyer wrote:
> 
> At 08:16 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >The pages load ok if I load them from a remote server but when I try to
> >load them from here I have to completely disable my firewall.....
> >
> >John Meyer wrote:
> 
> What firewall do you have?
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From nate at vicksburgcollective.com  Wed Jun 13 19:52:41 2001
From: nate at vicksburgcollective.com (nate koechley)
Date: Wed Jun 13 19:52:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] save dynamic sites with lynx?
In-Reply-To: <200106140016.UAA24043@swiftsure.cnchost.com> from Joe Crawford <jcrawford@avencom.com> on Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:20:19 -0700
Message-ID: <200106140049.UAA23378@bellerophon.cnchost.com>

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From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Jun 13 21:27:42 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Jun 13 21:27:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape JavaScript Problem
In-Reply-To: <3B264938.E30E5BC4@centergate.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELMEOEHNAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

ian,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Ian Potts
:
: You can see what I mean by taking a look at the
: test page at:
: http://members.home.com/ian5411/nsjstest.htm
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i hope you haven't solved this problem yet.  if you have, i hope this can be
useful in some way to you and others.

i wasn't able (with my limited play time these days) to figure out exactly
what was causing netscape to not play nice with your javascript.  i tested
it with a text box (instead of a hidden field) and it still wouldn't write
the value to the field or report it in the alert().

so, since i felt bad about being stumped and slow in responding to your
problem, i took 10-15 minutes to write the functionality from scratch to see
if the problem was reproducible from dissimilar script.  fortunately, i was
unable to reproduce it and have succeeded in building a version that does
what you want it to.  i even managed to end up with a solution that's
slightly smaller as well.  enough bragging, here's the goods:

http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/add_text_to_select.html

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/






From lisa at koolfish.com  Wed Jun 13 21:45:27 2001
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost)
Date: Wed Jun 13 21:45:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEBHCFAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

Hi John,

I can't stand doing all the search engine stuff that my clients request. So
when they start whinging that they are not be placed high up in the rankings
I politely tell them that they need to start paying someone a monthly fee if
they are serious and want someone to work on this for them. A lot of them
don't understand that search engine optimisation is an on-going thing not
just a one-off and then I recommend they get in touch with a guy called Marc
Holt whose company has a branch that specialises in this sort of thing. A
few of my clients have used him and they seem quite pleased with the
results. Also he doesn't nick your clients, you can say you already manage
the site you just want the search engine stuff done by him.
You can check out his services at his website: www.holtww.com/promotion.html

Hope that helps
Lisa.




From gozz at gozz.com  Wed Jun 13 22:51:40 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Wed Jun 13 22:51:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] "Smart Tags"
Message-ID: <p04310100b74de3ffe558@[192.168.1.100]>

Just heard about this on the radio:

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6210768.html

IE 6 may insert links to MSN sites and other sites into your web pages.

-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From darrenn at qldstate.com.au  Wed Jun 13 23:08:40 2001
From: darrenn at qldstate.com.au (Darren Neimke)
Date: Wed Jun 13 23:08:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] "Smart Tags"
Message-ID: <13FACCC42EB7754AA39E16228480C607026079@brismail.qldstate.com.au>

	> IE 6 may insert links to MSN sites and other sites into your
web pages.

Here's some feedback from another list that I'm involved in:

<snip>
I think there will be a number of ways to use this technology to our
benefit and limit the links list attached to the tags.  Who out there
ever gets the results they want on a search engine in the first page?
If the links list was based on third party results such as that, no one
will use it.  I am sure that they will be configurable.
</snip>



<TIP TYPE="sql" product="SQL7">

To include all records that are ranked equally within a resultset when
using the TOP clause also include the WITH TIES clause.

As an example the 1st statement could actually return more than 10
results, whereas the 2nd will always be abbreviated to first* 10
results.

SELECT TOP 10 WITH TIES 
	asr.application_id AS ApplicationID, 
	COUNT(asr.application_id) AS CountOfApplicationID
FROM Application_security_rel AS asr
GROUP BY asr.application_id
ORDER BY 2 DESC

SELECT TOP 10
	asr.application_id AS ApplicationID, 
	COUNT(asr.application_id) AS CountOfApplicationID
FROM Application_security_rel AS asr
GROUP BY asr.application_id
ORDER BY 2 DESC

</TIP>




From isaac at members.evolt.org  Wed Jun 13 23:11:10 2001
From: isaac at members.evolt.org (isaac)
Date: Wed Jun 13 23:11:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] "Smart Tags"
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b74de3ffe558@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIAEFBCIAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>


> Just heard about this on the radio:
> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6210768.html
> IE 6 may insert links to MSN sites and other sites into your web pages.

There has been a news posting on this topic on the evolt.org site for a
week:

Microsoft implementing 'Smart Tags' in IE release
http://evolt.org/smart_tags/

Has some additional links in comments which provide more information.


isaac

--------------------------------------------------------------
triple zero digital | upstairs at 200 the parade, norwood 5067
0414 758 000 | www.triplezero.com.au | isaac at triplezero.com.au




From headlemur at qwest.net  Wed Jun 13 23:36:45 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Wed Jun 13 23:36:45 2001
Subject: [thelist] "Smart Tags"
References: <CKEIJNPMACBAAGMEBNNIAEFBCIAA.isaac@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <00c001c0f48a$c72aa9a0$0b646464@qwest.net>

Smart Tags Suck!!

The Microsoft Internet - The Next Episode
http://www.lemurzone.com/edit/converse42.htm

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt.org
http://www.evolt.org
Lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com






From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 00:19:46 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 00:19:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEBHCFAA.lisa@koolfish.com>
Message-ID: <3B28107D.22978.A3FB9B7@localhost>

> From: "Lisa Frost" <lisa at koolfish.com>
>
> Hi John,

who's john?  what thread is this from?  i didn't see any 'In-Reply-To' 
or 'References' headers, and frankly, this sounds like spammage...  
given that both your domain and his domain map to an address in 
Bangkok, it kinda makes me wonder...

> I can't stand doing all the search engine stuff that my clients
> request. So when they start whinging that they are not be placed high
> up in the rankings I politely tell them that they need to start paying
> someone a monthly fee if they are serious and want someone to work on
> this for them. A lot of them don't understand that search engine
> optimisation is an on-going thing not just a one-off and then I

i don't agree with that... i just finished another thread on another list 
with some guy who said that was key... which is odd, given that 
search engines take weeks to months to visit a site, and penalize 
you for submitting over and over... there's little opportunity to do it 
all the time when you have to wait so long between submitting and 
indexing...

and then there's the fact that i've submitted all my sites once, and 
they still get hit many times a week by a dozen+ search engines... 
and most of them still come up on the first page on targetted 
searches (kewords provided by client)... i never made any 
guarantees, but i still managed to pull it off without weekly 
massaging of content or resubmission...

> recommend they get in touch with a guy called [Foo Bar] whose company
> has a branch that specialises in this sort of thing. A few of my
> clients have used him and they seem quite pleased with the results.

good for you, but if this isn't spam and you really use him, you 
might want to see if his services are worth it... if you can learn 
good structural mark-up, have good copy, and useful meta-tags, 
along with a few other things (simple nav, good page titles, cross-
links, etc.), you can have a good ranking on some keywords (but 
not all, that's just how it is)...

> Also he doesn't nick your clients, you can say you already manage the
> site you just want the search engine stuff done by him. You can check
> out his services at his website: [foobar]

er...





From jonhall at ozline.net  Thu Jun 14 00:27:41 2001
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Thu Jun 14 00:27:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
References: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C20@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <3B284AA6.7050705@ozline.net>

I have no experience with Interdev, but Frontpage extensions are very flaky.
I find it necessary to remove Frontpage extensions from the web site in 
IIS, then reset all of the permissions on the folder, then reinstall the 
FP extensions. Sometimes, resetting the permissions after the FP 
extensions are reinstalled as above helps if the above does not.
I dont know why this works and I dont care to know...hopefully FP dies 
soon. I can dream cant I?

jon

Brian King wrote:

>I am still getting an error.  It is telling me that the Front Page server
>extensions are not loaded.  I go to the management console and look and I
>have them loaded.  I can check the extensions.  Interdev is creating the
>project folder and virtual directory on the server because  I see them
>there.  It just can't connect to them.
>I am going to go back to the old way of doing it if I can't resolve this
>soon.
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of Brian King
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:53 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Never mind.  Brain fart.  I forgot to install the server extensions.
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of Brian King
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:44 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Maybe I spoke too soon.  The server services are up and running but I can't
>connect to them.  Anyone using MS Interdev with this setup?  It is telling
>me that it cannot connect to the server.  I even try the IP address.
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of Brian King
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:48 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Thank you!   That worked.  Boy and to think that I have been tormenting
>myself all of this time without that!
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of James Aylard
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:11 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Brian,
>
>>Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
>>machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?
>>
>
>    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove Programs
>from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button in
>the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
>Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install by
>clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
>two.
>
>hth,
>James Aylard
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
>





From trb at cartoonviolence.net  Thu Jun 14 02:06:38 2001
From: trb at cartoonviolence.net (Tobyn Baugher)
Date: Thu Jun 14 02:06:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS
In-Reply-To: <B7496563.35E6%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>; from charles@littlegreenfootballs.com on Sun, Jun 10, 2001 at 05:56:52PM -0700
References: <000d01c0f209$6f2fb980$0c41073e@Home> <B7496563.35E6%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <20010614030341.A18923@cartoonviolence.net>

On Sun, Jun 10, 2001 at 05:56:52PM -0700, Charles F. Johnson wrote:
> if you can use PHP on this site, it's pretty easy. just make links to the
> various stylesheets like so:
> 
> <a href="mypage.php?css=style1.css">Tiny fonts</a>
> <a href="mypage.php?css=style2.css">Readable fonts</a>
> <a href="mypage.php?css=style3.css">Huge fonts</a>
> 
> then in the <head> section of your page, where you'd normally put the link
> to the stylesheet, use something like this instead:
> 
> <?php
> if (isset($css)) {
>   echo "<link rel=\"stylesheet\" href=\"$css\" type=\"text/css\">\n";
> } else {
>   echo "<link rel=\"stylesheet\" href=\"default.css\" type=\"text/css\">\n";
> }
> ?>

Of course, you would never allow users to specify strings that are used
directly in your code with no input checking. This is fine for a short
example, but keep in mind that coding like this in general is a security
nightmare :)

Not that you write insecure code, I've just seen it way too much.

Regards,
Toby

-- 
Tobyn Baugher <trb at cartoonviolence.net>
http://www.cartoonviolence.net
AIM:unlewp ICQ:14281524 EFnet:trb



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 02:45:43 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 02:45:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
In-Reply-To: <3B28107D.22978.A3FB9B7@localhost>
References: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEBHCFAA.lisa@koolfish.com>
Message-ID: <3B2832C0.8240.AC5918F@localhost>

> From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
>
> > From: "Lisa Frost" <lisa at koolfish.com>
> >
> > Hi John,
> 
> who's john?  what thread is this from?  i didn't see any 'In-Reply-To'
> or 'References' headers, and frankly, this sounds like spammage... 
> given that both your domain and his domain map to an address in
> Bangkok, it kinda makes me wonder...

ahhh... my mail server crapped out and dumped a bunch of 
messages... just got 'em now...  as such, i didn't see the start of 
the thread... whoops...

<tip>
In WS FTP you can sort files by extension just by right-clicking in 
the pane you want to affect.  The right-click menu brings up a host 
of other options as well.
</tip>



From andrew at thepander.co.nz  Thu Jun 14 05:42:59 2001
From: andrew at thepander.co.nz (Andrew Forsberg)
Date: Thu Jun 14 05:42:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
In-Reply-To: <3B2832C0.8240.AC5918F@localhost>
References: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAAEBHCFAA.lisa@koolfish.com>
 <3B2832C0.8240.AC5918F@localhost>
Message-ID: <p05100300b74e42c5af9c@[192.168.1.5]>

>  > From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
>ahhh... my mail server crapped out and dumped a bunch of
>messages... just got 'em now...  as such, i didn't see the start of
>the thread... whoops...

Where's that spanking stick now?


<tip type="backups">
Most backup systems allow you to perform a full or an incremental 
backup. It's best if you can setup an incremental backup to happen 
once or twice a day, perhaps more often if you value your data 
sufficiently. Complement your incremental backups with frequent full 
backups, preferably automated, networked backups. Retrospect 
Workgroup does this quite nicely for mac/wintel boxes. *nix systems 
usually have built in apps like for example: ufsdump (Solaris).
</tip>
-- 
Andrew Forsberg
---
the pander - http://thepander.co.nz/
uberNET - http://uber.net.nz/



From DonM at allensysgroup.com  Thu Jun 14 06:30:39 2001
From: DonM at allensysgroup.com (Don Makoviney)
Date: Thu Jun 14 06:30:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Simple Mailing List Application in ASP
Message-ID: <7BFA01703139D51192E100B0D0D0133E11045A@usnapsmail.asg.com>

This question has been asked from time to time on this list and other lists,
so I wrote an article that addresses creating a very simple mailing list
program that can be easily expanded later.


You can read the article here:
http://www.aspalliance.com/makd/articles/mailing_list_using_asp.asp

Hope you like!

Thanks,

Don



From Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com  Thu Jun 14 06:52:15 2001
From: Ron.Luther at COMPAQ.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Thu Jun 14 06:52:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win2k permissions
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A06FCF969@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Thanks Scott,


I was on the right track, (I actually mentioned "IUSR_something" to the
folks), and on the wrong track - I thought those permissions were in the
registry keys.

I'll run some searches on google and the MS site and track down more info
for them.

Thank!!

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Dexter [mailto:sgd at ti3.com]
Good, cause that's not what it is =)

IIS runs under a userid (IUSR_<machinename>), which has Guest privileges.
That id needs to have access to the other machine. It's an NTFS permissions
tweak. 



From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Thu Jun 14 07:47:36 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Thu Jun 14 07:47:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] "Smart Tags"
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC291@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C22@ITG_B02>

Hi Darren, I also belong to the ASPlist.  Glad to see you used my comments
from it.  Cool!

Brian W. King
Impact Technologies

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent:	Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:04 AM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	RE: [thelist] "Smart Tags"

	> IE 6 may insert links to MSN sites and other sites into your
web pages.

Here's some feedback from another list that I'm involved in:

<snip>
I think there will be a number of ways to use this technology to our
benefit and limit the links list attached to the tags.  Who out there
ever gets the results they want on a search engine in the first page?
If the links list was based on third party results such as that, no one
will use it.  I am sure that they will be configurable.
</snip>



<TIP TYPE="sql" product="SQL7">

To include all records that are ranked equally within a resultset when
using the TOP clause also include the WITH TIES clause.

As an example the 1st statement could actually return more than 10
results, whereas the 2nd will always be abbreviated to first* 10
results.

SELECT TOP 10 WITH TIES
	asr.application_id AS ApplicationID,
	COUNT(asr.application_id) AS CountOfApplicationID
FROM Application_security_rel AS asr
GROUP BY asr.application_id
ORDER BY 2 DESC

SELECT TOP 10
	asr.application_id AS ApplicationID,
	COUNT(asr.application_id) AS CountOfApplicationID
FROM Application_security_rel AS asr
GROUP BY asr.application_id
ORDER BY 2 DESC

</TIP>


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From runciter at rosa.com  Thu Jun 14 07:51:56 2001
From: runciter at rosa.com (Niklaus Haldimann)
Date: Thu Jun 14 07:51:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
Message-ID: <3B28B0AE.32CAC87F@rosa.com>

Hi list

An accessibility consultant on a project is advising me to use summary
attributes in table tags to differentiate tables used solely for layout
purposes from those used to display content. Huh? Having never used the
summary attribute I can't make much sense of the documentation I found
via Google http://www.google.com/search?q=table+summary+attribute .

As I understand "summary" is for tables what "alt" is for images. So I
should use empty summary attributes in tables used for layout purposes
and try to summarize the content of the other ones, right? What kind of
browser do actually use the summary attribute and how do they use it?
Like, text-to-speech browsers will read it out before reading the
content of a table?

I am all for accessibility but I am having a hard time trying to figure
out how browsers can actually benefit from this attribute ...

--
Niklaus Haldimann, Frontend Engineer
At Work: http://www.rosa.com
At Play: http://www.ubique.ch
--
log-power to the WAP-people: http://www.waplog.ch



From BKing at Impact-Technologies.com  Thu Jun 14 08:29:31 2001
From: BKing at Impact-Technologies.com (Brian King)
Date: Thu Jun 14 08:29:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
In-Reply-To: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370BC295@ITG_B02>
Message-ID: <77CABDAF62AFD411AEA800D0B78491370B1C23@ITG_B02>

I finally figured it out.  It was an MS F'up, (see MS Q238881).  There has
to be a file called Frontpg.ini in the WINNT dir.  I had the file but the
contents were not correct.  The contents need the following information.
I also had to load both the Client and server set of Frontpage server
extensions.  I didn't realize that there were two sets that needed to be
loaded when the server and the client were on the same machine.  Apparently
the systems views it as two separate  machines.
What a hassle.  Not bad though.  Only 8 hours wasted from install to a
working setup.

Brian W. King
Impact Technologies

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
On Behalf Of Jon Hall
Sent:	Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:25 AM
To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server

I have no experience with Interdev, but Frontpage extensions are very flaky.
I find it necessary to remove Frontpage extensions from the web site in
IIS, then reset all of the permissions on the folder, then reinstall the
FP extensions. Sometimes, resetting the permissions after the FP
extensions are reinstalled as above helps if the above does not.
I dont know why this works and I dont care to know...hopefully FP dies
soon. I can dream cant I?

jon

Brian King wrote:

>I am still getting an error.  It is telling me that the Front Page server
>extensions are not loaded.  I go to the management console and look and I
>have them loaded.  I can check the extensions.  Interdev is creating the
>project folder and virtual directory on the server because  I see them
>there.  It just can't connect to them.
>I am going to go back to the old way of doing it if I can't resolve this
>soon.
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of Brian King
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:53 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Never mind.  Brain fart.  I forgot to install the server extensions.
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of Brian King
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:44 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Maybe I spoke too soon.  The server services are up and running but I can't
>connect to them.  Anyone using MS Interdev with this setup?  It is telling
>me that it cannot connect to the server.  I even try the IP address.
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of Brian King
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:48 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	RE: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Thank you!   That worked.  Boy and to think that I have been tormenting
>myself all of this time without that!
>
>Brian W. King
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
>On Behalf Of James Aylard
>Sent:	Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:11 PM
>To:	thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject:	Re: [thelist] Win 2K Pro vs Server
>
>Brian,
>
>>Do you have to load/install/start a service to run the localhost on a Pro
>>machine?  I can't figure it out, (or is it already running by default)?
>>
>
>    IIS is not installed by default. To install it, open Add/Remove
Programs
>from the Control Panel, click on the Add/Remove Windows Components button
in
>the left-hand column, and then check the box for Internet Information
>Services (IIS). You can alter some of the default options for the install
by
>clicking on the Details... button. The rest is just clicking a button or
>two.
>
>hth,
>James Aylard
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



---------------------------------------
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the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
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From colin.robinson at in-tuition.co.uk  Thu Jun 14 08:57:49 2001
From: colin.robinson at in-tuition.co.uk (Colin Robinson)
Date: Thu Jun 14 08:57:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] client resusing code/site
In-Reply-To: <007a01c0f212$2f9682a0$83ba2dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <002901c0f4c2$acd0c610$3601a8c0@D00007>

First of all it would depend on what contract / licence / terms of sale you
have agreed with your client.
In general you do not want to actually sell your code to anyone as this may
limit what code you can write in the future (if they own it then you cant
sell it to anyone else !).
We always retain the intellectual property rights to our code and any other
deliverables and give the client a perpetual licence to use and maintain our
code but only for there own internal business.

Colin Robinson
In-Tuition
www.in-tuition.co.uk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Fischer
> Sent: 11 June 2001 02:02
> To: The List
> Subject: [thelist] client resusing code/site
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> A client of  mine has just told me he has purchased some
> pages in an online
> directory service and they are going to cut and paste what I
> have done for
> him on his own www site to the directory.  Not sure that I
> feel comfortable
> with that so thought I would ask your advice?  I know he has
> paid for what
> I've done so far but does that give him the right to use it
> when and were he
> likes?  I feel like I am being cheated?
>
> Thanks
>
> Adrian Fischer
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>





From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com  Thu Jun 14 08:57:57 2001
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Thu Jun 14 08:57:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
Message-ID: <OF3048F63D.550814DD-ON86256A6B.004996DA@na.jci.com>

A couple of recent threads contained notes that pixels were the only way to
achieve cross-platform consistency. Anyone who has seriously wedded
themselves to this idea needs to have a look at Opera 5 for the Mac, which
in fact renders pixel text on a Mac considerably smaller than pixel text on
a Windows machine. Opera doesn't appear to consider this a bug, and in
reading the CSS spec, they appear to be justified in that assertion, as the
CSS spec asserts that the user agent (AKA browser) should in fact *not*
consider a pixel as a screen pixel, but rather as a hypothetical unit
approximately equal to 1/90th of an inch.

Which means that if the user agent is not given the video density of the
monitor attached, it will assume the platform standard (72 pixels per inch
for MacOS) and resize the value accordingly. (BTW, for the more technically
inclined: Since almost the beginning of time, MacOS internally has
contained fields purporting to be the horizontal and vertical dpi values of
the attached screen. I think some video driver writers even use them. But
Apple doesn't; Quickdraw, and therefore MacOS, always assumes 72. No idea
if this has changed under OS X, as I haven't had the time to take it apart,
yet.)

Pixels aren't your saviour. Get used to the idea that your wonderful
pixel-perfect beautifully-colored layout will *only* be that way on your
own screen, and start designing by rules, rather than pixels.

If anyone's got an "in" with the W3C, here's what's needed:
1) A way to read the rendering assumptions of the browser (96dpi, 72dpi,
whatever)
2) A "minimum-font-size" attribute, which functions as a limit beneath
which the user agent should ignore font sizing declarations
3) A way of reading the current rendering size of an object specified in
relative measurements. (200% of what? How big's an em? That sort of thing.

These should all be part of the standard, so that if/when a browser decides
to support it we can use them to help our pages understand the conditions
they're about to be subjected to.

(If I seem to be ranting there at the end, it's because I just ran into
*another* site designed by someone who knows better than *I* do what size I
want my browser window set at. My apologies if I carried the rancor along
with me. Maybe I should code up an extra for the Mozilla project; a
preference button that replaces that particular piece of, um, javascript
code with a quick redirect to the top of the history stack.)

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.




From nsg_chong at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 14 09:10:37 2001
From: nsg_chong at hotmail.com (Jelle Desramaults)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:10:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?
Message-ID: <OE73x33E1ioWwr2UAaT000004da@hotmail.com>

Heja, evolters

first post here, just wanna say i'm happy to be here and hope i'll be able
to contribute a bit.

anyway, my boss would like to insert a privacy statement in our company's
website, because we"ll be using a mailinglist (and a privacy statement looks
so damn proffesional).  Neither myself or my boss have a a clue as to what
to put in the statement. Does the privacy statement has any legal power,
does it have to live up to certain legal guidelines ?

Any tips/urls ?

hit me !


I apologize if this post is a bit off-topic.
<tip>
If you want to learn something more about search engine optimalization,
visit http://www.searchengines.com , who would have thought ej ? :)
</tip>



From JenniferE at mif.com  Thu Jun 14 09:18:37 2001
From: JenniferE at mif.com (JenniferE at mif.com)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:18:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?
Message-ID: <17AF8E1F556F39479F819840139BEAD3E5AB94@mist.mifnet.local>

Here's our privacy statement (related to our online tracing - maybe you can get a few ideas...)

http://www.mif.com/netscape/privacy.cfm

Jennifer




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 09:19:17 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:19:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
In-Reply-To: <3B28B0AE.32CAC87F@rosa.com>
Message-ID: <200106141419.f5EEJCq24518@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Niklaus Haldimann <runciter at rosa.com>
> 
> An accessibility consultant on a project is advising me to use summary
> attributes in table tags to differentiate tables used solely for
> layout purposes from those used to display content. Huh? Having never
> used the summary attribute I can't make much sense of the
> documentation I found via Google
> http://www.google.com/search?q=table+summary+attribute .

go to the people who made the specs, it might help explain it 
better, or not, but at least start there:

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#table-summary-info

also, do an in-page search for 'summary' at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html, this should help 
clear it up a bit for you...

> As I understand "summary" is for tables what "alt" is for images. So I
> should use empty summary attributes in tables used for layout purposes
> and try to summarize the content of the other ones, right? What kind

you can probably leave 'summary' (and 'caption') out of layout 
tables altogether... but i'd have to test it to be certain...

> of browser do actually use the summary attribute and how do they use
> it? Like, text-to-speech browsers will read it out before reading the
> content of a table?

again i'd have to test it, since i don't think any of the browsers i've 
used support it, and i can't fire one up now to be certain...

> I am all for accessibility but I am having a hard time trying to
> figure out how browsers can actually benefit from this attribute ...

it isn't for browsers, it's for users... if you are surfing in a non-table-
capable browser (Lynx, screen readers), the concept is that 
'summary' will tell you what the table data is, so even if you can't 
read it, you at least know what it is...




From GregHolmes at aol.com  Thu Jun 14 09:23:57 2001
From: GregHolmes at aol.com (GregHolmes at aol.com)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:23:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
Message-ID: <a4.1568eaf6.285a2251@aol.com>

Niklaus Haldimann <runciter at rosa.com> wrote:

> As I understand "summary" is for tables what "alt" is 
> for images. So I should use empty summary attributes 
> in tables used for layout purposes
> and try to summarize the content of the other ones, 
> right?

This suggests you might use it for layout tables too:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/summary.asp

Though it is MS, so take with a grain of salt.

Greg Holmes
gregholmes at aol.com



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 14 09:33:02 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:33:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
Message-ID: <LAW2-F3meWgUSp3sJWG00014b0a@hotmail.com>

>A couple of recent threads contained notes that pixels were the only way to 
>achieve cross-platform consistency. Anyone who has seriously wedded 
>themselves to this idea needs to have a look

>at Opera 5 for the Mac, which in fact renders pixel text on a Mac 
>considerably smaller than pixel text on a Windows machine.

In my opinion this is still a bug, regardless of the newest pixel theory. I 
look at it from the opposite point of view: all browsers show the same text 
size except for Op5Mac, ergo: Op5Mac does not conform to the de-facto 
standard. Since Opera is still very much a minority, it cannot afford such 
things if it wants to grow. Ergo: they'll change it in a future release.

>Opera doesn't appear to consider this a bug, and in
>reading the CSS spec, they appear to be justified in that assertion, as the 
>CSS spec asserts that the user agent (AKA browser) should in fact *not* 
>consider a pixel as a screen pixel, but rather as a hypothetical unit 
>approximately equal to 1/90th of an inch.

Then text should be exactly the same in Opera 5 on Win and Mac if both 
computers use the same Sony Triniton 19'' screen with 1152x870 resolution 
(which is my current setup). They're not the same, so one of them is wrong. 
Since Op5Mac is the one differing from all other browsers, it is most likely 
to be wrong.

>Which means that if the user agent is not given the video density of the 
>monitor attached, it will assume the platform standard (72 pixels per inch 
>for MacOS) and resize the value accordingly.

If a pixel is defined as 1/90th of an inch and an inch contains either 72 or 
96 pixels (depending on the OS), somewhere something must be terribly wrong. 
These two definitions simply don't go together, only one of them can be 
true.

Sorry, but I still believe the Op5Mac behaviour is a bug.

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From optima at hot.ee  Thu Jun 14 09:38:57 2001
From: optima at hot.ee (Lauri Vain)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:38:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?
References: <OE73x33E1ioWwr2UAaT000004da@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c0f4d7$031dbb40$1731fea9@hot7>

Hi Jelle,

It's probably a good thing to contact a lawyer who does these things on a daily
basis. However, if you are in a hurry, then there are a few privacy policy
wizards on the web. I don't know how good they are but I'm sure you can make
something out of them with small adjustments.

http://www.the-dma.org/library/privacy/creating.shtml#form
http://privacy.linkexchange.com/

HTH and good luck!

Yours,
Lauri




From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Thu Jun 14 09:39:27 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:39:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64B8@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya!

what you have to do depends on how global you are. the eu has some data
protection rules, and the us has pending legislation. it's not for you or
your boss to write -- you actually probably should get a lawyer. but, imho,
basically you should be ok if 1- you have an "opt-in" policy, not an
"opt-out" and 2- you never ever sell any of the information you collect.
also, try to avoid deals with your online ad people that involve them
tracking users through the site or sending cookie info to their databases. 

some anti-spyware bills are pending in congress, after that doubleclick
fiasco, but they haven't passed yet. there are also some tough anti-spam
proposals that have been recently been introduced. again, no action yet
afaik.

here in the us, if your site is aimed at children under 13, you technically
need to get the parent's consent before you collect info, according to COPPA
'98.

if you have a banking or health site, then there are a couple of complex
laws that might apply to you: the gram-leach act of 99 and the HIPPA of '96.

hth,
f


-----Original Message-----
From: Jelle Desramaults [mailto:nsg_chong at hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:08 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?


Heja, evolters

first post here, just wanna say i'm happy to be here and hope i'll be able
to contribute a bit.

anyway, my boss would like to insert a privacy statement in our company's
website, because we"ll be using a mailinglist (and a privacy statement looks
so damn proffesional).  Neither myself or my boss have a a clue as to what
to put in the statement. Does the privacy statement has any legal power,
does it have to live up to certain legal guidelines ?

Any tips/urls ?

hit me !


I apologize if this post is a bit off-topic.
<tip>
If you want to learn something more about search engine optimalization,
visit http://www.searchengines.com , who would have thought ej ? :)
</tip>

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 14 09:39:32 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:39:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
Message-ID: <LAW2-F20mdMJOtd3rOE000013b4@hotmail.com>

> > I am all for accessibility but I am having a hard time trying to
> > figure out how browsers can actually benefit from this attribute ...
>
>it isn't for browsers, it's for users... if you are surfing in a 
>non-table-capable browser (Lynx, screen readers), the concept is that 
>'summary' will tell you what the table data is, so even if you can't read 
>it, you at least know what it is...

But which browsers actually support it? If the answer is 'none' there's no 
reason to start using them. (As is well known, I don't believe in adding 
hypothetical attributes for hypothetical browsers that might support them in 
a hypothetical future).

ppk
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From runciter at rosa.com  Thu Jun 14 09:44:07 2001
From: runciter at rosa.com (Niklaus Haldimann)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:44:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
References: <200106141419.f5EEJCq24518@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B28CAFD.5069C0C6@rosa.com>

I wrote:
> > I am all for accessibility but I am having a hard time trying to
> > figure out how browsers can actually benefit from this attribute ...

aardvark wrote:
> it isn't for browsers, it's for users... if you are surfing in a non-table-
> capable browser (Lynx, screen readers), the concept is that
> 'summary' will tell you what the table data is, so even if you can't
> read it, you at least know what it is...

Hmm. When my whole page consists of nothing but tables it's sort of
futile to provide a description of these tables to browsers that cannot
read their content. I always assumed non-table-capable browsers would
just output text in the order of appearance within the table. Lynx does
this, right? I don't think any real world browser can afford to ignore
tables altoghether. I think I'm ditching the summary attribute ...

--
Niklaus Haldimann, Frontend Engineer
At Work: http://www.rosa.com
At Play: http://www.ubique.ch
--
log-power to the WAP-people: http://www.waplog.ch



From joe at artlung.com  Thu Jun 14 09:51:33 2001
From: joe at artlung.com (Joe Crawford)
Date: Thu Jun 14 09:51:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F3meWgUSp3sJWG00014b0a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B74E1CCF.3BFC%joe@artlung.com>

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:
> If a pixel is defined as 1/90th of an inch and an inch contains either 72 or
> 96 pixels (depending on the OS), somewhere something must be terribly wrong.
> These two definitions simply don't go together, only one of them can be
> true.
> 
> Sorry, but I still believe the Op5Mac behaviour is a bug.

Yes, but given the displays coming down the pipeline
<http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2000nov/gee20001110002855.htm> - our use
of pixels to define font sizes is an evolutionary dead end.

Everybody's right, and everybody's screwed! :-)

Gotta love web development for the way technology shifts out from under you.

+1 on "minimum-font-size" as something that's needed Arlen.

    - Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 10:04:18 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:04:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
In-Reply-To: <3B28CAFD.5069C0C6@rosa.com>
Message-ID: <200106141504.f5EF4Eq26770@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Niklaus Haldimann <runciter at rosa.com>
> 
> Hmm. When my whole page consists of nothing but tables it's sort of
> futile to provide a description of these tables to browsers that
> cannot read their content. I always assumed non-table-capable browsers
> would just output text in the order of appearance within the table.
> Lynx does this, right? I don't think any real world browser can afford
> to ignore tables altoghether. I think I'm ditching the summary
> attribute ...

um, re-read my reply... you'll note we're talking about *data* tables, 
not layout tables...

that means tables where you show a chart, or some other grid of 
information, kind of like you might in Excel or something...

layout tables clearly would not benefit from either 'summary' or 
'caption', since they are just for layout and those attributes would 
be pretty meaningless when the table is linearized anyway...

given that, no, no 'real-world' browser can ditch tables, but we're not 
talking about that, either, we're talking about making some tabular 
data more accessible to the few who can't see it just by adding a 
'summary'... for 3 seconds of your time, i think it's worth it to help 
out those few users... otherwise, i think it's just a cop-out...




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 10:06:13 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:06:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
In-Reply-To: <a4.1568eaf6.285a2251@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200106141506.f5EF69q26905@leo.evolt.org>

> From: GregHolmes at aol.com
> 
> This suggests you might use it for layout tables too:
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/s
> ummary.asp

i don't get that at all from the document... it makes no assertion 
either way regarding layout tables... in fact, their example is a data 
table...

> Though it is MS, so take with a grain of salt.

well, yeah...



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 10:08:28 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:08:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F20mdMJOtd3rOE000013b4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200106141508.f5EF8Qq27048@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Peter-Paul Koch" <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com>
> 
> But which browsers actually support it? If the answer is 'none'
> there's no reason to start using them. (As is well known, I don't

re-read my original comment... the answer is, i don't know... now, i 
could test it, but it doesn't matter too much, since i still use 
them... if you want to know, you should test it first, and second 
consider the W3C WAI section about alternative browsers to 
compare feature sets...

> believe in adding hypothetical attributes for hypothetical browsers
> that might support them in a hypothetical future).

even if those 3 seconds of your life means that a page you code 
today can ensure loyal users even after you've finished the project?

i see that as short-sighted, since the attribute has *no* effect on 
the rendering of the page...




From ctfuzzy at canopy.net  Thu Jun 14 10:22:48 2001
From: ctfuzzy at canopy.net (Captain F.M. O'Lary)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:22:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel<yup>
In-Reply-To: <OF3048F63D.550814DD-ON86256A6B.004996DA@na.jci.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010614110753.01ed84e0@canopy.net>

At 09:54 AM 6/14/01 , you wrote:
[ . . .]
>If anyone's got an "in" with the W3C, here's what's needed:
[ . . .]
>2) A "minimum-font-size" attribute, which functions as a limit beneath
>which the user agent should ignore font sizing declarations
[ . . .]

We *almost* had one. Remember the (thoroughly depreciated) Base Font tag?
It almost seems like that could have been a perfectly good idea - if it was
different.

On a more serious note . . . 

I have to concur 110% with your statement "Pixels aren't your saviour. Get
used to the idea that your wonderful 
pixel-perfect beautifully-colored layout will *only* be that way on your 
own screen, and start designing by rules, rather than pixels."

though it is a difficult pill to swallow, it's the honest to goodness
bottom line - if you want your stuff to work for the broadest possible
audience. I think probably the most important part of our job (as web
developers) is also one of the most ignored: Demographic Research.

Just who in the heck *is* the intended audience? You should be able to
DOCUMENT that before you ever open that ASCII text editor to begin writing
code.

It is my professional experience that if you "must" stray from ratified
code you do it only one way: Write for your specifically intended
demographics and publish it with at least two fingers crossed.

:-)
Fuzzy
<new in this town>
______________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster at canopy.net
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal the neighbor's
newspaper, that's the time to do it.
------------------------------------------------------------------



From martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com  Thu Jun 14 10:29:18 2001
From: martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com (martin.p.burns at uk.pwcglobal.com)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:29:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?
Message-ID: <OF3774E7F6.DE77A145-ON80256A6B.00535AA7@ema.pwcinternal.com>

Memo from Martin P Burns of PricewaterhouseCoopers

-------------------- Start of message text --------------------

The UK data protection legislation is a pretty good best practise example.

Essentially, if you collect, store, process or use personal data about
individuals,
you have to register:
*) what data types you're collecting
*) What you plan to do with them

Also, you have to get the individual's explicit, separate permissions to
(a) Collect
and store their data and (b) Use it for outbound contact.

In each place you collect data, you need to have these optouts/ins, and be
able to show that anyone on your database has agreed to your collection,
storage
and use of that data.

If the individual requests a copy of what you hold on them, you have to
supply it, although you can charge a 'reasonable' (usually interpreted as
about
UKP10) fee.

One finance company I know had to change a flag for customers - if they're
not
likely to be profitable, they used to be flagged as 'poor' (as in a poor
prospect).
Because of the requirement for inspection, they changed this as it wouldn't
go down too well with the people in question, or the press.

There are also some basic principles you should abide by. Data should be:

   fairly and lawfully processed;
   processed for limited purposes;
   adequate, relevant and not excessive;
   accurate;
   not kept longer than necessary;
   processed in accordance with the data subject's rights;
   secure;
   not transferred to countries without adequate protection.

Personal data covers both facts and opinions about the individual. It also includes information regarding the intentions of the data controller
towards the individual, although in some limited circumstances exemptions will apply. With processing, the definition is far wider than before. For
example, it incorporates the concepts of 'obtaining', holding' and 'disclosing'.

There's a bunch of stuff at
http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/

You might also be interested in P3P
fwiw, IE6 implements P3P, although its default settings are, um,
interesting:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19654.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19683.html
(MSN cookies allowed through, competitor Doubleclick's not at the default
setting)

Some examples from my site:
http://www.easyweb.co.uk/contact/
note the opt-in, and the privacy policy info:
http://www.easyweb.co.uk/legal/privacy.html
which is basically what IBM's P3P app churns out - it quizzes you on what you're
collecting, and what you're using it for, and puts out:
1) A P3P XML file which isn't well-formed
2) An HTML file - human readable version of the XML info.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Martin




Please respond to thelist at lists.evolt.org

Sent by:  thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org

To:   "'thelist at lists.evolt.org'" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
cc:


Subject:  RE: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?


hiya!

what you have to do depends on how global you are. the eu has some data
protection rules, and the us has pending legislation. it's not for you or
your boss to write -- you actually probably should get a lawyer. but, imho,
basically you should be ok if 1- you have an "opt-in" policy, not an
"opt-out" and 2- you never ever sell any of the information you collect.
also, try to avoid deals with your online ad people that involve them
tracking users through the site or sending cookie info to their databases.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jelle Desramaults [mailto:nsg_chong at hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:08 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?


Heja, evolters

first post here, just wanna say i'm happy to be here and hope i'll be able
to contribute a bit.

anyway, my boss would like to insert a privacy statement in our company's
website, because we"ll be using a mailinglist (and a privacy statement
looks
so damn proffesional).  Neither myself or my boss have a a clue as to what
to put in the statement. Does the privacy statement has any legal power,
does it have to live up to certain legal guidelines ?



--------------------- End of message text --------------------

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contracts for services to clients are with, PricewaterhouseCoopers. The UK
firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers is authorised by the Institute of Chartered
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PricewaterhouseCoopers is a member of the world-wide
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computer.




From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Thu Jun 14 10:35:09 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:35:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F3meWgUSp3sJWG00014b0a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B74E270B.3945%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Peter-Paul Koch <gassinaumasis at hotmail.com> typed:

> In my opinion this is still a bug, regardless of the newest pixel theory. I
> look at it from the opposite point of view: all browsers show the same text
> size except for Op5Mac, ergo: Op5Mac does not conform to the de-facto
> standard. Since Opera is still very much a minority, it cannot afford such
> things if it wants to grow. Ergo: they'll change it in a future release.

Exactly! Whether it's a bug or not, whether there's a rationale for scaling
pixels or not, there has to be a place for common sense in this. If every
other browser shows fonts at the same size, but Opera scales them into
unreadability, which browser are people going to choose?

The W3C says this about scaling pixels:

> If the pixel density of the output device is very different from that of a
> typical computer display, the user agent should rescale pixel values.

Key words: "very different." This part of the recommendation is clearly
intended to describe high-res output devices (e.g. printers, plotters,
future high-density display screens), *not* "typical computer displays."

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From ctfuzzy at canopy.net  Thu Jun 14 10:45:04 2001
From: ctfuzzy at canopy.net (Captain F.M. O'Lary)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:45:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel . . . doesn't the viewer?
In-Reply-To: <B74E270B.3945%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
References: <LAW2-F3meWgUSp3sJWG00014b0a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010614113800.00c00b50@canopy.net>

Doesn't the viewer ultimately determine the text display size in their
browser preferences?

If so, shouldn't I be pretty happy that I have a mechanism that will allow
me to make suggestions that ~will~ be accepted within the parameters the
viewer has already (theoretically) determined?

Just a couple of thoughts . . . 

Fuzzy.
______________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster at canopy.net
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal the neighbor's
newspaper, that's the time to do it.
------------------------------------------------------------------



From data at data1701d.com  Thu Jun 14 10:45:09 2001
From: data at data1701d.com (Bill Mason)
Date: Thu Jun 14 10:45:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
In-Reply-To: <200106141506.f5EF69q26905@leo.evolt.org>
References: <a4.1568eaf6.285a2251@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614084125.00a58d90@data1701d.com>

At 08:03 AM 6/14/01, aardvark wrote:
> > From: GregHolmes at aol.com
> >
> > This suggests you might use it for layout tables too:
> >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/s
> > ummary.asp
>
>i don't get that at all from the document... it makes no assertion
>either way regarding layout tables... in fact, their example is a data
>table...

For what it's worth, the W3C home page -- laid out by table -- does use its 
SUMMARY attribute to note that it's a layout table and what's in it:

table summary="Layout table: The first cell contains a navigation bar of 
W3C technologies, the second contains news, and the third another 
navigation bar of W3C pages."  border="0" width="99%" cellspacing="0" 
cellpadding="10"

Bill Mason
data at data1701d.com
Dateline: Starfleet
http://www.data1701d.com
http://profile.guru.com/billmason




From seyon at delime.com  Thu Jun 14 11:13:35 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Thu Jun 14 11:13:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] privacy statement - where to begin ?
In-Reply-To: <OE73x33E1ioWwr2UAaT000004da@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010614120005.00a43af0@mail.uno.co.tt>

Good morning,

I'd just add a couple points here.

Your privacy statement should be true. Decide what you're going to do with 
information you collect - email addresses in this case I guess. Then state 
these points accurately and simply. Short words, non-complex sentences if 
possible.

Be honest. Make sure everyone internally adheres to the company's privacy 
policy. This may involve making it general knowledge within the company.

That said, if you absolutely do not know what should and shouldn't be done 
with people's information, one good place to start is viewing the privacy 
policies of major sites and also check out www.truste.org

regards.
-marc



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 11:18:50 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 11:18:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614084125.00a58d90@data1701d.com>
References: <200106141506.f5EF69q26905@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200106141618.f5EGIlq30298@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Bill Mason <data at data1701d.com>
> 
> For what it's worth, the W3C home page -- laid out by table -- does
> use its SUMMARY attribute to note that it's a layout table and what's
> in it:

now *that's* just cool... that's a great example, bill, thanks for 
thinking to look there...

so, yeah, can anyone say why that *shouldn't* have a summary?




From noah at tookish.net  Thu Jun 14 11:23:00 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Thu Jun 14 11:23:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
In-Reply-To: <B74E1CCF.3BFC%joe@artlung.com>
References: <LAW2-F3meWgUSp3sJWG00014b0a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010614121420.028fdcc0@tookish.net>

At 07:48 AM 14/06/2001 -0700, Joe Crawford wrote:

>+1 on "minimum-font-size" as something that's needed Arlen.

I don't see how this would get us anywhere. What units would we use to 
specify the font size? You're never going to specify a minimum font size 
that's bigger than your preferred font size, so if your preferred font size 
is too small, your minimum font size will be way too small.

It seems that this would have no effect on the situation of different fonts 
rendering at different sizes on different platforms. Am I missing something?

Cheers,

Noah




From alicia.hsuing at provato.com  Thu Jun 14 11:25:35 2001
From: alicia.hsuing at provato.com (Alicia Hsuing)
Date: Thu Jun 14 11:25:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
Message-ID: <844AF2DB44FDBA439D23A5C37E1CAE060C18FB@charon.main.provato.com>

Gina, which browser version you use? I'm thinking whether if to add 'X'.
If you use IE5.x, maybe it's better not to add 'X' at all.

 
 
 
       T h a n k  Y o u.


          -  A l i c i a  -

 1 - 5 1 0 - 2 8 5 - 0 3 3 3


-----Original Message-----
From: Gina K. Anderson [mailto:gina at sitediva.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 3:26 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax


Robin, and all--

|Since the X is fake, it would go to the next available font - the
|default sans-serif for that machine, in your case it would be Lucida!

The font that displays at this site is illegible on my screen, see the
screenshot at:
http://www.freecfm.com/s/sitediva/screen1.gif

Eck! Actually, I saw this happen in one other site and just thought they
messed
up. I've recently been futzing with my fonts however, so I think I may
have done
something...how do I set the default sans-serif font? I tried going into
the
Internet Explorer options, but it only lets me set Serif and Fixed.

LOL! I wonder if I should send this screenshot to Interwoven?

Gina


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From gina at sitediva.com  Thu Jun 14 11:44:00 2001
From: gina at sitediva.com (Gina K. Anderson)
Date: Thu Jun 14 11:44:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] interesting CSS syntax
In-Reply-To: <844AF2DB44FDBA439D23A5C37E1CAE060C18FB@charon.main.provato.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBKOPEEELOECOMMAGLMECOJPAA.gina@sitediva.com>

Alicia,

|Gina, which browser version you use? I'm thinking whether if to add 'X'.
|If you use IE5.x, maybe it's better not to add 'X' at all.

I'm using IE 5.5 Windows

Gina



From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Thu Jun 14 12:31:55 2001
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Thu Jun 14 12:31:55 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
References: <3B27AAD3.ABD8A7FB@canada.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c0f4f8$277dda80$6400a8c0@kjs>

> I have changed the default page to index.html and have placed the files
> and the images folder in C:\Inetpub\wwwroot folder.
> I wonder if anything I have installed here might be interfering with
> it...

Change the page to default.htm and it *should* work

Kev
kjs at ratking.co.uk




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Jun 14 12:49:01 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Jun 14 12:49:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] don't make me think
Message-ID: <01c0f4f8$f2105fc0$3446149a@rudy>

WDVL has posted an article about Steve Krug's book "Don't Make Me Think! A
Common Sense Approach to Web Usability"

  http://wdvl.internet.com/Authoring/Design/Dont/index.html

the article is obviously not as long as the book but does contain several
of the main points


rudy




From emeyer at lclark.edu  Thu Jun 14 13:05:56 2001
From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:05:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <3B2924BB.4070102@visualbridge.tv>
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com>
 <p04310102b74c8dc90e6f@[192.168.1.100]> <3B2924BB.4070102@visualbridge.tv>
Message-ID: <a05100306b74ea9ddaa4f@[149.175.43.62]>

oh... my... god...
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/

when did this happen?

I can say this for the design, the animated rollover logo, etc:
it takes risks.  And I do like that.

And I am a sucker for patterned backgrounds...

...terra lycos? what? who?

I'm so out of it.

Erika

(this probably is a tip-requiring post but I'm being called to a 
meeting... I owe, I guess.)

E
-- 



From Jesus.Gorriti at iconmedialab.es  Thu Jun 14 13:13:11 2001
From: Jesus.Gorriti at iconmedialab.es (Jesus G. Gorriti)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:13:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
Message-ID: <83713C2F568DD411B9FB00508BAE3E46757C16@ESMADMSX01>

>
>...terra lycos? what? who?

Ok. Basically.

Lycos bought Wired and everything
related a year ago or so.

At some point, Telefonica (Spain
biggest Telecom) thought it would
be cool to have an internet branch.

So they bought a small search engine
called ole.com and injected a lot
of money so they could make an IPO. And
they called it Terra.

A year later Terra had a few billions
in the pocket and bought Lycos.

And became Terra Lycos. And as Lycos
was owner of Wired, Webmonkey became
part of the Terra Lycos Network.


piece of cake, right?



From neal at constructweb.com  Thu Jun 14 13:18:12 2001
From: neal at constructweb.com (construct)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:18:12 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com><p04310102b74c8dc90e6f@[192.168.1.100]> <3B2924BB.4070102@visualbridge.tv> <a05100306b74ea9ddaa4f@[149.175.43.62]>
Message-ID: <00d601c0f4fd$4bc0be80$cfdab9d1@uninc.com>

Man that design is the most
sucker #2 two here
like that animated gif ----top left
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Erika Meyer <emeyer at lclark.edu>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:03 AM
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign


> oh... my... god...
> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/
> 
> when did this happen?
> 
> I can say this for the design, the animated rollover logo, etc:
> it takes risks.  And I do like that.
> 
> And I am a sucker for patterned backgrounds...
> 
> ...terra lycos? what? who?
> 
> I'm so out of it.
> 
> Erika
> 
> (this probably is a tip-requiring post but I'm being called to a 
> meeting... I owe, I guess.)
> 
> E
> -- 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 




From djc at starkmedia.com  Thu Jun 14 13:31:22 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:31:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB321117249302E@gate.ti3.com> <p04310102b74c8dc90e6f@[192.168.1.100]> <3B2924BB.4070102@visualbridge.tv> <a05100306b74ea9ddaa4f@[149.175.43.62]>
Message-ID: <3B290112.2030506@starkmedia.com>

this happened about a month ago i think.. not that i'm objective or 
anything but it doesn't work well in mozilla(rollovers? funky ad 
placement), the background *hurts* my eyes and gives me flashbacks. :)

and oddly only the frontdoor is changed, the rest of the site is as it was..

<tip type="linux">
If you really wanna know all you can about your cpu:

cat /proc/cpuinfo

</tip>

.djc.

Erika Meyer wrote:

> oh... my... god...
> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/
> 
> when did this happen?
> 
> I can say this for the design, the animated rollover logo, etc:
> it takes risks.  And I do like that.
> 
> And I am a sucker for patterned backgrounds...
> 
> ...terra lycos? what? who?





From richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk  Thu Jun 14 13:37:47 2001
From: richard.morris at web-designers.co.uk (Richard H. Morris)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:37:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <a05100306b74ea9ddaa4f@[149.175.43.62]>
Message-ID: <NBBBJAHNMNCICAMJBONMOENHEOAA.richard.morris@web-designers.co.uk>

Erika Meyer [emeyer at lclark.edu] wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> oh... my... god...
> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/

Mmmm, blue text on green...

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Richard. H. Morris, Web Designers Limited
~~ http://www.web-designers.co.uk ~~
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me
          than a full frontal lobotomy"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ 





From mejarc at twobanjos.tierranet.com  Thu Jun 14 13:38:17 2001
From: mejarc at twobanjos.tierranet.com (Melanie Archer)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:38:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Table Summary Attribute 
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010614110029.00a310f0@mail.twobanjos.tierranet.com>

Good day, Niklaus,

If you're working with table-based layout the summary attribute can be 
helpful to development,
not just for accessibility purposes.

A while back I tweaked a DTD so that valid HTML for a particular project 
*required* summaries on all the tables, because there were so many nested 
tables (yuck) necessary to achieve the design.  The formula I used for the 
contents of the summaries was as follows:

<table....summary="layout table: visual display stunt"...>
or
<table....summary="data table: righteous format for tabular data"...>

Well, okay, maybe the actual summaries differed :)

I gathered the idea for the "layout table:" and "data table:" wording from 
the W3C site:
http://www.w3.org/

Different advice is at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#table-summary-info

AFAIK visual browsers just shrug at this attribute and pass it through 
without display.
Like you, I'm curious  how/when  nonvisual browsers render the summary 
attribute.

Enjoy,
M Archer
http://www.twobanjos.tierranet.com




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Thu Jun 14 13:43:22 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:43:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] limiting SQL database access using NT passwords
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533953@ns.magisnetworks.com>

I've built an online Purchase Request app for our intranet. It doesn't need
high levels of security since all purchases are approved on paper, but we'd
like to maintain privacy. We currently have a password field in the
database, and verify the user against that.

Is there a way to verify against their network password instead of
maintaining a separate password list?

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 



From sgd at ti3.com  Thu Jun 14 13:45:52 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:45:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493062@gate.ti3.com>

What slays me is that under the "masters" link, they don't have much to say.
Kinda funny.

That's not a slam, just an observation that the content is a little "light"
....

<tip>
In InterDev, you can associate a file to the editor of your choice. Right
click on the file in the project view pane, choose "Open with..." and from
there you can add multiple editors for that file extension. You can also set
any one as the default. For example, I have .gif files by default open in
LView (PhotoShop and FireWorks are in the list), and .html files in
DreamWeaver....
</tip>


sgd
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erika Meyer [mailto:emeyer at lclark.edu]
> 
> oh... my... god...
> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/
> 



From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Thu Jun 14 13:46:27 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:46:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS
In-Reply-To: <20010614030341.A18923@cartoonviolence.net>
Message-ID: <B74E53D7.3977%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Tobyn Baugher <trb at cartoonviolence.net> typed:

> Of course, you would never allow users to specify strings that are used
> directly in your code with no input checking. This is fine for a short
> example, but keep in mind that coding like this in general is a security
> nightmare :)
> 
> Not that you write insecure code, I've just seen it way too much.
> 
> Regards,
> Toby

toby,

right you are and thanks for the caveat. in general, never a good idea to
pass URLs in a query string without inspecting them. but i don't know if
anything evil can be achieved by changing the stylesheet in a <LINK> tag,
except to make the page unreadable for whoever put in the bogus url.

(undoubtedly someone will now tell me how a resourceful script kiddie can
cause thermonuclear armageddon by manipulating the "border-style"
attribute...)

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From charles at littlegreenfootballs.com  Thu Jun 14 13:47:57 2001
From: charles at littlegreenfootballs.com (Charles F. Johnson)
Date: Thu Jun 14 13:47:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <3B290112.2030506@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <B74E5444.397B%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>

Daniel J. Cody <djc at starkmedia.com> typed:

> this happened about a month ago i think.. not that i'm objective or
> anything but it doesn't work well in mozilla(rollovers? funky ad
> placement), the background *hurts* my eyes and gives me flashbacks. :)

all i can think is that they're going for a pseudo-retro-futuristic thing.

warning. designer out of control.

charles johnson
lgf web design
http://littlegreenfootballs.com




From blastronaut at excite.com  Thu Jun 14 14:02:02 2001
From: blastronaut at excite.com (Michael McGlynn)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:02:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] home network printing on Mac
Message-ID: <1190916.992545135478.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>

Is there any software that will let me use on mac as a print server for
another?

Configuration - G3 233, IMac, Linksys Etherfast 4 port, OLD Apple
Laserwriter printer connected to the G3 via ethernet. the IMac needs to
print, but cannot get connectivity to the printer.

Help! (slight emergency)

Thanks, and a tip...

<tip type="hover style on images">
Watch using a background color on your hover style. If a transparent image
has an HREF, the hover background will show through, and that's usually not
what the intention was. Create a pseudo style like A: hover.imageStyle if
your browser will support it.
</tip>

??????????????????
michael mcglynn
interface designer
??????????????????





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/





From matt at sweetillusions.org  Thu Jun 14 14:12:33 2001
From: matt at sweetillusions.org (matt newell)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:12:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
References: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493062@gate.ti3.com>
Message-ID: <08d401c0f505$8e2c1870$6900000a@tendocom.org>

im going to go out on a limb here and plainly say that i dig the new
webmonkey. its a nice divergence from lame looking and poorly designed (both
in appearance and ue) "how i do that html stuff again" type sites.

being that i've referenced the site over the course of 5+ years, i think
their designs have gotten better with time, and them placing the info people
really want/need at the top is great. (beginners/builders/masters -- how to
library -- quick reference ... all really useful.

the text is readable and has a great "magazine" feel to it. especially for
the web.

and for history's sake .. wired has /always/ been responsible for absurd
color combos and crazy/slick printing methods (the iridescent orange papers
with silver inlays ring a bell?)

anyhoo, i think it fits them to a "t" and and glad to see their consistency
in doing edgy work.



        .. matt

        .. www.sweetillusions.org
        .. matt at sweetillusions.org

        .. in our madness evermore we rave - chaucer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dexter" <sgd at ti3.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] webmonkey redesign


: What slays me is that under the "masters" link, they don't have much to
say.
: Kinda funny.
:
: That's not a slam, just an observation that the content is a little
"light"
: ....
:
: <tip>
: In InterDev, you can associate a file to the editor of your choice. Right
: click on the file in the project view pane, choose "Open with..." and from
: there you can add multiple editors for that file extension. You can also
set
: any one as the default. For example, I have .gif files by default open in
: LView (PhotoShop and FireWorks are in the list), and .html files in
: DreamWeaver....
: </tip>
:
:
: sgd
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: Erika Meyer [mailto:emeyer at lclark.edu]
: >
: > oh... my... god...
: > http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/
: >
:
: ---------------------------------------
: For unsubscribe and other options, including
: the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
:




From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com  Thu Jun 14 14:13:43 2001
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:13:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
Message-ID: <OFD4AD11A1.0DD21DE3-ON86256A6B.00679CEC@na.jci.com>

>I don't see how this would get us anywhere. What units would we use to
>specify the font size? You're never going to specify a minimum font size
>that's bigger than your preferred font size, so if your preferred font
size
>is too small, your minimum font size will be way too small.
>
>It seems that this would have no effect on the situation of different
fonts
>rendering at different sizes on different platforms. Am I missing
something?

In a word, yes, but it may not be obvious. It would only be usable with a
relative font size measurement. Let me expand:

My eyes are old, I like to have at least 12pt type (on bad days 14 pt)
facing me in my window, so that's how I set my browser default font size.
Charles, on the other hand, has fantastic vision in those fiercely
penetrating green eyes and likes a smaller font, say 11px, for his default
size.

Now, an accomodating designer can specify type sizes relative to the
defaults we have chosen, and maintain a consistent "feel" for the
typography of a website by putting relative values in the CSS (120%, 1.2em
for larger, shouting type, even 200%+ to scream something; 80%, perhaps 60%
for the "fine print"). We can both be served type at a comfortable size for
our specific tastes and conditions, while the general proportions of the
type remains consistent (yes, I know it's not going work exactly, but at
least an approximation of harmony on the page will be maintained).

This is all possible now. But the problem is that when I set my small type
on the web to 75%, and Charles cruises by, his monitor cannot faithfully
reproduce type that small, so he doesn't get to read the incredible
fantasically funny footnotes I set in small type.

A "minimum-font-size" attribute would let me create a stylesheet that tries
to maintain the typographic harmony, but gives up all pretense of doing
this if the type size would drop below my specified effective viewing size.
Likewise, I could set such an attribute in my browser to override
eagle-eyed designers who are under the delusion that I'm able to read print
that looks more to me like pepper spilled on a formica countertop.

So the fonts render at different sizes on different platforms. That doesn't
matter if we don't specify the base font size for the page, but only
relative font sizes. But we can't completely rely on relative sizes working
unless we can effectively set an absolute lower limit to the shrinkage.

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.




From Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu  Thu Jun 14 14:14:08 2001
From: Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:14:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] home network printing on Mac
In-Reply-To: <1190916.992545135478.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>
References: <1190916.992545135478.JavaMail.imail@tiptoe>
Message-ID: <p04330112b74ebc4c1227@[128.148.108.209]>

At 11:58 AM -0700 6/14/01, Michael McGlynn wrote:
>Is there any software that will let me use on mac as a print server for
>another?
>
>Configuration - G3 233, IMac, Linksys Etherfast 4 port, OLD Apple
>Laserwriter printer connected to the G3 via ethernet. the IMac needs to
>print, but cannot get connectivity to the printer.
>
>Help! (slight emergency)

Why isn't the Laserwriter connected directly to the hub? That should 
make the iMac able to see it. Provided the iMac is connected to the 
hub, too.

Or, crossover cable from Laserwriter to iMac.

Other than that, transfer files via your network from the iMac to the 
G3, and print.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Julia Frizzell                        http://www.netspace.org/~glyneth
julia_frizzell at brown.edu                   http://www.theblackroad.org
glyneth at netspace.org                                      ICQ: 8458071
"No, no, no, it's an omen! It's a higher power, trying to tell me
through bunnies, that we're all gonna die. Oh, God." -- Anya, The Gift



From Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com  Thu Jun 14 14:16:03 2001
From: Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com (Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:16:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
Message-ID: <OFFD8E5535.79C56D5C-ON86256A6B.006959FE@na.jci.com>

>>Opera 5 for the Mac, which in fact renders pixel text on a Mac
>>considerably smaller than pixel text on a Windows machine.
>
>In my opinion this is still a bug, regardless of the newest pixel theory.

You're not alone in that view, but "newest pixel theory" has to be a
relative term. This comes from Tod Fahrner back in 1998:

"If your pixels are too small, so is your image. And if your "points"
rasterize into a fixed number of pixels, then so is your text. So The Right
Thing To Do is to scale, which is in fact what happens when you print.

<digression into printing elided>

"I take it as given that within 10 years, interactive displays will have
physical resolutions at least equal to low-end print. I don't want the Web
to shrink or distort down that hole.

"So the key is to know the appropriate scaling factor when your pixels are
unsuitably small for 1:1 display of raster data (such as GIFs, JPEGs,
PNGs). The reference pixel provides the basis for such scaling, correlating
literal raster data pixels with useful values in absolute or user-space
(inches or degrees of visual angle).

"Pixel scaling from a common reference or "virtual" pixel is essential for
achieving predictable rendering results across media and devices,
especially over time."

I think it's been one of those parts of the standard that wasn't looked at
very closely until Opera implemented it, and now we see it we're a little
unnerved by it.

>I look at it from the opposite point of view: all browsers show the same
text
>size except for Op5Mac, ergo: Op5Mac does not conform to the de-facto
>standard.

That dog won't hunt. No standards-compliant browser conforms to the de
facto standard. Therefore no company should produce a standards-compliant
browser? *Somebody* has to be the first to implement; if no one is to be
the first, then no progress can be made. We can debate whether the CSS
standard is fuggheaded on this point, but to say "no one else does it that
way, therefore they're wrong" is to assert that CSS should never have been
implemented by any browser in the first place.

>>Opera doesn't appear to consider this a bug, and in
>>reading the CSS spec, they appear to be justified in that assertion, as
the
>>CSS spec asserts that the user agent (AKA browser) should in fact *not*
>>consider a pixel as a screen pixel, but rather as a hypothetical unit
>>approximately equal to 1/90th of an inch.
>
>Then text should be exactly the same in Opera 5 on Win and Mac if both
>computers use the same Sony Triniton 19'' screen with 1152x870 resolution
>(which is my current setup). They're not the same, so one of them is
wrong.
>Since Op5Mac is the one differing from all other browsers, it is most
likely
>to be wrong.

Almost right, but not quite. Take out that "if clause" in the first
sentence to get it completely right. Type specified at 10px, according to
the CSS standard, should render at the exact same visible height,
regardless of the size and resolution of the monitor. 10px type should
render at about .11 inches high on *all* monitors, even your Sony when set
at 640x480 resolution. The missing piece of information is that the browser
currently is blissfully unaware of the ppi resolution setting of the
monitor, because the OS isn''t telling it anything reliable.

>>Which means that if the user agent is not given the video density of the
>>monitor attached, it will assume the platform standard (72 pixels per
inch
>>for MacOS) and resize the value accordingly.
>
>If a pixel is defined as 1/90th of an inch and an inch contains either 72
or
>96 pixels (depending on the OS), somewhere something must be terribly
wrong.
>These two definitions simply don't go together, only one of them can be
>true.

Yes they can both be true, and yes, there *is* something wrong here. The
standard reference pixel is a hypothetical creation, defined to be 1/90th
of an inch. Windows reports its monitors to be 96ppi and MacOS reports its
monitors to be 72ppi, if the browser asks. The actual monitor attached to
the system will have real, not hypothetical pixels, with a density of still
another ppi, almost guaranteed *not* to be either 96ppi or 72ppi (though in
a happy accident for Windows users, they are usually closer to 96ppi than
72ppi; IIRC the current range goes something like 80-130ppi).

The CSS spec currently requires the browser to scale pixel measurements
according to the pixel density of the monitor. Opera chose to write their
browser to implement the CSS spec, and *all* the OS's are lying to it,
rather than relaying accurate information, hence the size discrepancy. One
way for browser developers to get past this is to ask the user, via a
preference setting, what the ppi of the monitor is. IE5/Mac does something
like this already, allowing fonts to be rendered either via the
MacOS-standard of 72dpi or the Windows standard of 96dpi. But unless that
preference setting is made known to the page via javascript, for example,
you're not going to know which preference has been selected, and in any
case you won't know its relationship to reality.

What I'm trying to get clear here is that 1 CSS pixel is *not* 1 monitor
pixel. Yes, in theory a pixel will resolve to the same size on all screens
in all OS's. But so should a point. The size of a pixel, just like the size
of a point, is dependent upon the browser implementation. The fact that
pixels have been thought of as more reliable than points is simply an
accident of history that may now be coming to an end. IBM right now is
shipping special-application (AKA expensive) LCD's that approach 300ppi.
Imagine your 14px typeface on *that* without scaling it somehow. Ever tried
reading 3pt type from an old laser printer?

Monitors are not paper. We should stop trying to treat them like they are.
We're painting our creations on canvas borrowed from our audience. We're
taking pot luck, not dictating terms.

Hey, if it was easy, anyone could do it, right?

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Jun 14 14:19:13 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:19:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
Message-ID: <01c0f506$283d78a0$6c47149a@rudy>

> http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/
> warning. designer out of control.

more than just the designer -- some coder figured out how to eliminate the
horizontal scrollbar, i mean like totally eliminate it, so that you have to
actually *change your resolution* to see what's over on the right side....
unless it's just me and my ancient browser (ie4.01)

<tip>
powermarks by kaylon
http://www.kaylon.com/power.html
30-day free trial (i paid on the 2nd day, it's that good)
among features too numerous to mention, it will retrieve the name, keywords
and description fields automatically from the actual web page
</tip>

sorry if that sounds a lot like a commercial, i am not affiliated with
kaylon, just a very happy customer

rudy
http://rudy.ca/




From jay at trans-city.com  Thu Jun 14 14:27:08 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:27:08 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <3B290112.2030506@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <B74E8798.59DC%jay@trans-city.com>

on 6/14/01 2:23 PM, Daniel J. Cody at djc at starkmedia.com wrote:

> this happened about a month ago i think.. not that i'm objective or
> anything but it doesn't work well in mozilla(rollovers? funky ad
> placement), the background *hurts* my eyes and gives me flashbacks. :)

Well, why not. What's keeping you from being objective. If you take a second
and think about it, is it really reasonable to expect a commercial site to
render in browsers that are still in development? It seems they're using CSS
correctly; if their code is valid, wouldn't your complaint be more
appropriate for the Mozilla development team?

> and oddly only the frontdoor is changed, the rest of the site is as it was..

Odd, maybe, but those who work on the Web may have an understanding of why
this type of partial re-design is necessary.

Hint: you don't have the resources for a full re-design and your ad sales
force is screaming for some more attractive ad space in an brutally
competitive environment.

-j




From jay at trans-city.com  Thu Jun 14 14:28:43 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:28:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <01c0f506$283d78a0$6c47149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <B74E87F5.59DD%jay@trans-city.com>

on 6/14/01 3:13 PM, rudy at r937 at interlog.com wrote:

> more than just the designer -- some coder figured out how to eliminate the
> horizontal scrollbar, i mean like totally eliminate it, so that you have to
> actually *change your resolution* to see what's over on the right side....
> unless it's just me and my ancient browser (ie4.01)


Seems to be your browser. No problems on IE 5 Mac or IE 5/PC

-j




From noah at tookish.net  Thu Jun 14 14:30:38 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:30:38 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
In-Reply-To: <OFD4AD11A1.0DD21DE3-ON86256A6B.00679CEC@na.jci.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010614151559.026add40@tookish.net>

At 02:10 PM 14/06/2001 -0500, Arlen.P.Walker at jci.com wrote:
>This is all possible now. But the problem is that when I set my small type
>on the web to 75%, and Charles cruises by, his monitor cannot faithfully
>reproduce type that small, so he doesn't get to read the incredible
>fantasically funny footnotes I set in small type.
>
>A "minimum-font-size" attribute would let me create a stylesheet that tries
>to maintain the typographic harmony, but gives up all pretense of doing
>this if the type size would drop below my specified effective viewing size.
>Likewise, I could set such an attribute in my browser to override
>eagle-eyed designers who are under the delusion that I'm able to read print
>that looks more to me like pepper spilled on a formica countertop.

That, I think, is the key  A minimum font size is something that should be 
implemented in the browser, not in stylesheets. Otherwise stylesheets will 
have to try to detect the platform, the browser, the resolution, etc. in a 
(likely fruitless) attempt to weigh all the factors that contribute to font 
size.

Cheers,

Noah




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 14:50:09 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:50:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <B74E87F5.59DD%jay@trans-city.com>
References: <01c0f506$283d78a0$6c47149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <200106141950.f5EJo4q07813@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Jay Greenspan <jay at trans-city.com>
> 
> > more than just the designer -- some coder figured out how to
> > eliminate the horizontal scrollbar, i mean like totally eliminate
> > it, so that you have to actually *change your resolution* to see
> > what's over on the right side.... unless it's just me and my ancient
> > browser (ie4.01)
> 
> Seems to be your browser. No problems on IE 5 Mac or IE 5/PC

same here, IE5 win2k, or any other browser...

FWIW, you *can* hide scrollbars in IE5, but it's A Bad Thing(tm)... 
i suspect they wouldn't have done that, given that they'd be 
harassed ten minutes out of the gate by people like me...




From k.smith at tatnet.com  Thu Jun 14 14:52:03 2001
From: k.smith at tatnet.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: Thu Jun 14 14:52:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <B74E8798.59DC%jay@trans-city.com>
Message-ID: <B74E8D84.55D9%k.smith@tatnet.com>

Daniel J. Cody at djc at starkmedia.com wrote:
>> this happened about a month ago i think.. not that i'm objective or
>> anything but it doesn't work well in mozilla(rollovers? funky ad
>> placement), the background *hurts* my eyes and gives me flashbacks. :)

Jay Greenspan wrote:
> It seems they're using CSS
> correctly; if their code is valid, wouldn't your complaint be more
> appropriate for the Mozilla development team?

Did you actually *look* at the CSS?

font-style:bold?

specifying lengths with no units?

layer-background-color: #000066;;

Not to mention the markup:
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/

--
kevin c smith
tatnet, inc.
e: k.smith at tatnet.com
t: 410.571.9462
f: 410.571.9442




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 15:00:49 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 15:00:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <B74E8798.59DC%jay@trans-city.com>
References: <3B290112.2030506@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200106142000.f5EK0lq08370@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Jay Greenspan <jay at trans-city.com>
> 
> Well, why not. What's keeping you from being objective. If you take a
> second and think about it, is it really reasonable to expect a
> commercial site to render in browsers that are still in development?

i think that's a question for the WaSP...  and i think Netscape would argue 
that it's not in development, it is a full version release, after all...

> It seems they're using CSS correctly; if their code is valid, wouldn't
> your complaint be more appropriate for the Mozilla development team?

it also depends on their 'message'... are many of their articles about cross-
browser development as well as standards (this is rhetorical)?  if so, then it 
should be an issue... if not, then it just means they didn't take the time (for 
whatever reason, even if we feel it's invalid) to do it...

personally, i think it's a simple enough fix...

> > and oddly only the frontdoor is changed, the rest of the site is as
> > it was..
> 
> Odd, maybe, but those who work on the Web may have an understanding of
> why this type of partial re-design is necessary.

thought i saw modified layout to accomodate the new 120x~600 ad 
format... which, of course, makes printing the pages worse than ever...

and the home page is a cluster in NN3, but i like how they've layered the 
stuff, and worst of all, and i feel like a guy staring at a crushed pedestrian, i 
actually *like* the zwizzy monkey circles... they match the theme of 
webmonkey quite well, historically at least... i do think, however, that 
instead of animated rollovers for the text of 'webmonkey', that animated 
rollovers of the icons for beginners/builders/masters would have been more 
interesting...

it's just unfortunate it doesn't fit in my 640 window, and that the ad is larger 
than any of the content on the home page...

> Hint: you don't have the resources for a full re-design and your ad
> sales force is screaming for some more attractive ad space in an
> brutally competitive environment.

dump the ads !

er...



From djc at starkmedia.com  Thu Jun 14 15:40:14 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Thu Jun 14 15:40:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
References: <B74E8798.59DC%jay@trans-city.com>
Message-ID: <3B291F85.6060409@starkmedia.com>

Jay Greenspan wrote:

> on 6/14/01 2:23 PM, Daniel J. Cody at djc at starkmedia.com wrote:


>>and oddly only the frontdoor is changed, the rest of the site is as it was..
> 
> Odd, maybe, but those who work on the Web may have an understanding of why
> this type of partial re-design is necessary.


I work here too! And before money started being such a big factor 
lately, designers used to *strive* to make consistant navigation. Is it 
ok to *now* shrug off what everyone has been preaching about - 
pertaining to useability, good navigation, and consistancy - for the 
last 7 years, including webmonkey?

"Sitewide navigation schemes must be consistent, intuitive, and highly 
comfortable" - Jeff Veen,
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/98/07/index3a_page4.html?tw=design


> Hint: you don't have the resources for a full re-design and your ad sales
> force is screaming for some more attractive ad space in an brutally
> competitive environment.


Hey, I'm sorry about the financial woes that webmonkey/lycos/terra is 
facing. But is terra/lycos/webmonkey running and developing sites only 
to provide what advertisers and the marketing department find usefull 
and attractive? Is the only reason they're mowing the lawn to make the 
'For Sale' sign prettier? Is it marketing drones or designers who get to 
pick a look and feel these days at terra/lycos/webmonkey?

And who, besides the ad sales force, find an intrusive and annoying 
banner ad that soaks up 20% of the screen real estate attractive?

.djc.





From jay at trans-city.com  Thu Jun 14 15:53:04 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Thu Jun 14 15:53:04 2001
Subject: was I bitchy? (was: Re: [thelist] webmonkey redesign)
In-Reply-To: <200106142000.f5EK0lq08370@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B74E9BBA.59EB%jay@trans-city.com>

It's really figgin hot and I still tend to be a bit defensive of 'da monkey.

I can write a tip now that I have my AC installed.

<tip type="PHP" author="jay Greenspan">

A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that using an "or die" suffix to a
mysql_query() function will give you meaningful errors. Well, there's no
need to type "or die" with every query. Use a function. And in that
function, make sure you give yourself that ability to turn off the error
reporting. When the site's live, you don't want your queries becoming public
knowledge.


function safe_query($sql_string) {
    if ($query_debug != "ON"){
        $result = mysql_query($sql_string) or
            die ("There was an error accessing this page,
                Please contact administrator");

    } elseif ($query_debug == "ON"){

        $result=mysql_query($sql_string) or
            die ("The following query failed:" . $sql_string . "<br>\n"
                    . "With following error:" . mysql_error()
                );

    }

}


</tip>





From ian at centergate.com  Thu Jun 14 16:02:30 2001
From: ian at centergate.com (Ian Potts)
Date: Thu Jun 14 16:02:30 2001
Subject: [thelist] Netscape JavaScript Problem
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELMEOEHNAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3B2925B8.6F03A285@centergate.com>

".jeff" wrote:
> i hope you haven't solved this problem yet.  if you have, i hope this can be
> useful in some way to you and others.

Jeff, thanks for the help! I haven't solved the problem, but I have been
able to trace the problem to the history.go(0); statement. This forces
the page to reload (needed for Netscape to correctly handle the
added/removed option) however, it also seems to erase the hidden value
previously set. 

> so, since i felt bad about being stumped and slow in responding to your
> problem, i took 10-15 minutes to write the functionality from scratch to see
> if the problem was reproducible from dissimilar script.  fortunately, i was
> unable to reproduce it and have succeeded in building a version that does
> what you want it to.  i even managed to end up with a solution that's
> slightly smaller as well.  enough bragging, here's the goods:
 
> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/add_text_to_select.html

Seems to work VERY well. The method in which you set the hidden variable
does make the difference. By setting it when the form is submitted, the
value is not lost. 

Thanks Jeff!

Ian



From MMcAtee at philamuseum.org  Thu Jun 14 16:18:40 2001
From: MMcAtee at philamuseum.org (McAtee, Malcolm)
Date: Thu Jun 14 16:18:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Samba question??
Message-ID: <3CB23A9F8C3DD511BC2500508BC74133281D7A@MAILHOST>


I have correctly configured Samba to appear in my window 2000 network
neighborhood 
however my login to the server will not be accepted. 
I realize that Windows uses encrypted passwords so I am trying use regedit
to allow for plain text passwords.
My Linux 7.0 book names the path as follows:

For NT 4.0
/HKEY_LOCAL MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Services/Rdr/Parameters/VNETSUP

this does not seem to exist on the windows 2000 box.
Does someone know where the equivalent file may be?


TIA

Malcolm




From emeyer at lclark.edu  Thu Jun 14 16:22:15 2001
From: emeyer at lclark.edu (Erika Meyer)
Date: Thu Jun 14 16:22:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <200106142000.f5EK0lq08370@leo.evolt.org>
References: <3B290112.2030506@starkmedia.com>
 <200106142000.f5EK0lq08370@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <a05100308b74ed7ec96d9@[149.175.43.62]>

from aardvark

>  i actually *like* the zwizzy monkey circles... they match the theme of
>webmonkey quite well, historically at least...

I do too.  Like I say: taking risks, I like that.

>i do think, however, that
>instead of animated rollovers for the text of 'webmonkey',

usually a rollovers (and the little hand-shaped cursor) signifies a 
link...  or something...

>that animated rollovers of the icons for beginners/builders/masters 
>would have been more interesting.

didn't one of the monkeys used to spin his wrench?  something like 
that... yeah.

It would be so cool if that box at the bottom weren't an ad, but just 
plain innovative fun stuff...

yeah, I'm in dreamland, I know...

While I'm dreaming, valid code would be really impressive.

<tip>
Tips should attempt to be ontopic.
Here are some examples of subject areas one might consider OFFtopic:

http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/98/50/index1a_page5.html?tw=programming
</tip>

Erika

-- 



From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Thu Jun 14 16:27:56 2001
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Thu Jun 14 16:27:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] PWS not working....
References: <3B27AAD3.ABD8A7FB@canada.com> <00b701c0f4f8$277dda80$6400a8c0@kjs>
Message-ID: <005301c0f518$bfb1e1a0$0300a8c0@Home>

Have you tried allowing directory browsing?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kevin Stevens <kjs at ratking.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] PWS not working....


> > I have changed the default page to index.html and have placed the files
> > and the images folder in C:\Inetpub\wwwroot folder.
> > I wonder if anything I have installed here might be interfering with
> > it...
> 
> Change the page to default.htm and it *should* work
> 
> Kev
> kjs at ratking.co.uk
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jay at trans-city.com  Thu Jun 14 16:40:13 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Thu Jun 14 16:40:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
In-Reply-To: <3B291F85.6060409@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <B74EA6C4.59F4%jay@trans-city.com>

on 6/14/01 4:33 PM, Daniel J. Cody at djc at starkmedia.com wrote:

> 

> I work here too! And before money started being such a big factor
> lately, designers used to *strive* to make consistant navigation. Is it
> ok to *now* shrug off what everyone has been preaching about -
> pertaining to useability, good navigation, and consistancy - for the
> last 7 years, including webmonkey?

I in no way think they have "shrugged this off". I think the navigation
works fine, but then again, I wasn't present for this round of user tests (I
haven't worked there in some time), so I don't really know what they found.


> Hey, I'm sorry about the financial woes that webmonkey/lycos/terra is
> facing. But is terra/lycos/webmonkey running and developing sites only
> to provide what advertisers and the marketing department find usefull
> and attractive? Is the only reason they're mowing the lawn to make the
> 'For Sale' sign prettier? Is it marketing drones or designers who get to
> pick a look and feel these days at terra/lycos/webmonkey?

> And who, besides the ad sales force, find an intrusive and annoying
> banner ad that soaks up 20% of the screen real estate attractive?

You do realize that this company has a payroll, rent, power bill -- you
know, expenses?

There are also shareholders and investors. If they're not happy no ones
happy. I know that when I fire up schwab.com and look at my stocks I never
say, "you know, I've lost 50 percent of my value in that company, but their
site looks terrific."

To bring this back around to something that is on-topic: Design, for many,
is going to get a lot harder. Companies are going to push to see that every
possible cent can be take from every page view. In the current climate, that
means making more concessions to those willing to write a check. There's
just no way around it.


Any designers out there with related stories?


-j




From bheerssen at visualbridge.tv  Thu Jun 14 17:10:21 2001
From: bheerssen at visualbridge.tv (Bruce Heerssen)
Date: Thu Jun 14 17:10:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] webmonkey redesign
References: <B74E8798.59DC%jay@trans-city.com> <3B291F85.6060409@starkmedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B2A8790.4010206@visualbridge.tv>

Daniel J. Cody wrote:

>
> And who, besides the ad sales force, find an intrusive and annoying 
> banner ad that soaks up 20% of the screen real estate attractive?
>
> .djc.

What ad? All I see is a really unattractive white box where an ad might 
otherwise be...

It says:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Not Found

The requested URL 
/adi/wm.ln/f;h=web;sz=300x250;tile=1;pos=1;ord=3225416260 was not found 
on this server.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache/1.3.20 Server at localhost Port 80

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

heh.

-Bruce

<tip type="basic css">
External style sheets are your friend. Linking to an external style 
sheet allows the browser to cache it, which will result in faster 
download times for the user. It also keeps your style sheet in one place 
so that modifying one file modifies the entire site.

Usage:

Place inside the <head></head> portion of your page
<link href="http://foo.com/style.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">

</tip>




From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 17:36:16 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Jun 14 17:36:16 2001
Subject: was I bitchy? (was: Re: [thelist] webmonkey redesign)
In-Reply-To: <B74E9BBA.59EB%jay@trans-city.com>
References: <200106142000.f5EK0lq08370@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200106142236.f5EMaCq19008@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Jay Greenspan <jay at trans-city.com>
>
> It's really figgin hot and I still tend to be a bit defensive of 'da
> monkey.

nup, you wasn't bitchy... you bring a different perspective to it is all, 
having been in there at one point...

i also know how defensive i can get over an old job, only because i 
don't want any negative comments toward my old employer to 
reflect on me... not that anything was truly negative, just 
constructive...

> I can write a tip now that I have my AC installed.

AC off for the day, leaving soon to stare at piles of ice...

<tip type="basic">
Use the default file of your webserver.  Disable directory browsing.  
If your server is configured to show index.html at any directory 
request, then make damn sure that there is a file called index.html 
in there that contains content.  At the very least, put a sensible 
redirect in there.  People will hack filenames off URLs to get back 
up the directory structure, so make sure it works for them instead 
of displaying all the files in the directory.
</tip>



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Thu Jun 14 18:06:01 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Thu Jun 14 18:06:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Deep, Lopsided Navigation Systems
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010614175806.03108b60@mail.imaginuity.com>

We're starting development of a site that has a huge number of sections and 
we're struggling with how best to structure the navigation.  One section 
(an important one) is very deep with lots of sections, subsections and 
pages and the others are pretty small.

What are some good examples of corporate sites that have very deep, very 
consistent navigation that handle these conditions well?

Thanks.

--Ben

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From lisa at koolfish.com  Fri Jun 15 01:59:11 2001
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost)
Date: Fri Jun 15 01:59:11 2001
Subject: was Re: [thelist] client needs search engine help...It is not spam
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHAOEBPCFAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

Hi all,
The reply I wrote to the thread about asking for search engine help and
offering a url to a guy who does this sort of thing is certainly not spam. I
lurk a lot on the list and have been a subscriber for well over a year.
Occasionally I ask for help and very occasionally I can offer a little bit
back. I am based in Bangkok. You can check me out at my domain. The guy I
suggested is someone I met here through the netpreneurs group that we run
here. We have a membership of about 30 serious business people in the IT
sector. My reply was certainly not intended as spam. Although I am based in
Bangkok I work with clients in Europe and the USA so I thought my suggestion
of looking at his site may have been of interest. We can offer the same
services as you folks all over the world. We are not Thai we are expats
trying to earn a living like everyone else. Sorry if my intended help got
taken the wrong way.

Lisa Frost
Koolfish Web Design
Bangkok, Thailand.




From lisa at koolfish.com  Fri Jun 15 02:11:31 2001
From: lisa at koolfish.com (Lisa Frost)
Date: Fri Jun 15 02:11:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] client needs search engine help...
Message-ID: <NEBBIDOAELFHBDBBPNHACECACFAA.lisa@koolfish.com>

Hi Ardvark,
I just read further down the digest and saw your later mails. So please
ignore my last mail justifying why I sent that post.
Lisa.




From catbells at pat.mkn.co.uk  Fri Jun 15 02:26:51 2001
From: catbells at pat.mkn.co.uk (Dave Hinton)
Date: Fri Jun 15 02:26:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] CSS
References: <B74E53D7.3977%charles@littlegreenfootballs.com>
Message-ID: <3B29B8C1.2FFEAAEE@pat.mkn.co.uk>


"Charles F. Johnson" wrote:

> toby,
> 
> right you are and thanks for the caveat. in general, never a good idea
> to pass URLs in a query string without inspecting them. but i don't
> know if anything evil can be achieved by changing the stylesheet in a
> <LINK> tag, except to make the page unreadable for whoever put in the
> bogus url.
> 
> (undoubtedly someone will now tell me how a resourceful script kiddie
> can cause thermonuclear armageddon by manipulating the "border-style"
> attribute...)

If someone could specify a stylesheet on their own server, then with
"display: none;", creative use of CSS2 selectors and generated content,
they could link to your page and utterly twist its meaning.

Though it would be far easier just to make the page unreadable, as you
say.  Then everyone who follows the link gets a bad impression of you.

-- 
  //  Dave Hinton
=()=  Web Developer, MarketNet
//    London 7691 8968



From nsg_chong at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 15 03:37:57 2001
From: nsg_chong at hotmail.com (Jelle Desramaults)
Date: Fri Jun 15 03:37:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
Message-ID: <OE44qVDokSUIwMw8lOD00001303@hotmail.com>

Heja,

I've been surfing the Adobe (http://www.adobe.com) site all morning in
search of SVG (scalable vector graphics). What i can't seem to figure out is
what the difference between SVG and flash/livemotion is.

Any tips/urls ?

thx !

, jelle



From eric at ohmforce.com  Fri Jun 15 03:53:22 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Fri Jun 15 03:53:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
References: <OE44qVDokSUIwMw8lOD00001303@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <010401c0f577$63c76860$9701a8c0@fr>

Hi Jelle,

SVG and Flash have the same goals, being  the vector graphic standard.
SVG is being defined by w3c (http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Overview.htm8).
It is heavily supported by Macromedia's arch-nemesis Adobe.

Yet, the major difference is for the the developper.
SVG is an XML application whereas Flash is in proprietary format (though the
API is available freely).
Thus you could code all your SVG graphics with Notepad(tm) though I would
not recommend it. But yet, generating on the fly, with any serverside
language, a flash-like thingy, is pretty cool to me.

Will it be viable to the end-users, for who it won't be any different, is
another question ...

Cheers,
    Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: Jelle Desramaults <nsg_chong at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: [thelist] SVG - who ? what ?


> Heja,
>
> I've been surfing the Adobe (http://www.adobe.com) site all morning in
> search of SVG (scalable vector graphics). What i can't seem to figure out
is
> what the difference between SVG and flash/livemotion is.
>
> Any tips/urls ?
>
> thx !
>
> , jelle





From adrian at cubitum.co.uk  Fri Jun 15 04:11:37 2001
From: adrian at cubitum.co.uk (Adrian Simmons)
Date: Fri Jun 15 04:11:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
In-Reply-To: <OE44qVDokSUIwMw8lOD00001303@hotmail.com>
References: <OE44qVDokSUIwMw8lOD00001303@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05100300b74f7b68f0f6@[62.255.154.58]>

>I've been surfing the Adobe (http://www.adobe.com) site all morning in
>search of SVG (scalable vector graphics). What i can't seem to figure out is
>what the difference between SVG and flash/livemotion is.
SVG and Flash are both vector based graphic formats.

They are different from each other.

Both currently require browser plugin's, but the flash plugin has 
much much higher 'market' penetration.

Macromedia's Flash software outputs to Flash format (amongst others), 
but Adobe LiveMotion can output to Flash or SVG (amongst others).

Flash is a proprietary Format owned my Macromedia (though I believe 
they've made some efforts to open up the format with their Flash 
SDK). In contrast SVG is on the way to becoming a W3C recommendation:
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Overview.htm8

In my own very limited experimentation LiveMotion created SVG files 
were massive compared Flash files of the same graphic (5 times the 
size?) - I've no idea whether that has to do with LiveMotion or the 
SVG format, or just the particular graphic I was using.

This might help with your understanding:
http://www.moock.org/webdesign/svg/articles/svg-vs-flash.html

In theory future browsers will use XML/XHTML, CSS, SMIL and SVG - in 
practice Micro$oft will probably release their own Vector based 
graphics format and wipe out the competition :)

-- 
Adrian

e-mail:
mailto:adrian at cubitum.co.uk

Web Site:
http://www.cubitum.co.uk

Netscape/AOL Instant Message ID:
adrianatcubitum

ICQ:
#116419539



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 15 04:58:22 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Fri Jun 15 04:58:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel . . . doesn't the viewer?
Message-ID: <LAW2-F127QcqnWwAeRa00014d81@hotmail.com>


>Doesn't the viewer ultimately determine the text display size in their 
>browser preferences?

Not if the font size is set in pixels. The only browsers that allow the user 
to overrule the font size are Netscape 6, Explorer 5 on Mac, Opera and iCab.

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From TheEnigma at Web-side.com  Fri Jun 15 06:56:58 2001
From: TheEnigma at Web-side.com (TheEnigma)
Date: Fri Jun 15 06:56:58 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b74f7b68f0f6@[62.255.154.58]>
Message-ID: <000001c0f592$1f0bef00$da00a8c0@jsampson>

[quote]
In theory future browsers will use XML/XHTML, CSS, SMIL and SVG - in
practice Micro$oft will probably release their own Vector based
graphics format and wipe out the competition :)
[/quote]

You really think so?
MacroM sem to have the web market cornered.
I know I use them all for a start - and with the buy out of Allair theres
not much competiton.
I think this is a market that M$ wont even scratch the surface of.

Regards
John Sampson




From TheEnigma at Web-side.com  Fri Jun 15 07:14:04 2001
From: TheEnigma at Web-side.com (TheEnigma)
Date: Fri Jun 15 07:14:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Deep, Lopsided Navigation Systems
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010614175806.03108b60@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c0f594$891e1970$da00a8c0@jsampson>

Nlynx?
www.nlynx.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ben Dyer
Sent: 15 June 2001 00:02
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Deep, Lopsided Navigation Systems


We're starting development of a site that has a huge number of sections and
we're struggling with how best to structure the navigation.  One section
(an important one) is very deep with lots of sections, subsections and
pages and the others are pretty small.

What are some good examples of corporate sites that have very deep, very
consistent navigation that handle these conditions well?

Thanks.

--Ben

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->



---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !





From cvos at netpaths.net  Fri Jun 15 08:12:14 2001
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Fri Jun 15 08:12:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] php on windows
Message-ID: <3B2A08FD.59C64297@netpaths.net>

I am trying to get the directory structure down straight mixing php on a windows server.  I'm
getting the error

Failed opening '/Web Sites/monster-media.com/new/includes/meta.inc'...
here   http://monster-media.com/new/

I am trying to use a simple include call:
<?php
$base_dir = "/Web Sites/monster-media.com/new";

?>

I know php is installed: http://monster-media.com/phpinfo.php

thanks,



Cayley Vos, Principal

360.714.8395 office
360.223.7799 cell

http://NetPaths.net
_______________________________
web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing





From mike.king at redroom.co.uk  Fri Jun 15 08:18:44 2001
From: mike.king at redroom.co.uk (Mike King)
Date: Fri Jun 15 08:18:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] php on windows
In-Reply-To: <3B2A08FD.59C64297@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615141222.00a96650@pop.redroom.co.uk>

try this.

$base_dir = "c:/web sites/monster-media.com/new/includes/";
include($base_dir . "meta.inc");

Cheers
mk

At 06:09 15/06/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I am trying to get the directory structure down straight mixing php on a 
>windows server.  I'm
>getting the error
>
>Failed opening '/Web Sites/monster-media.com/new/includes/meta.inc'...
>here   http://monster-media.com/new/
>
>I am trying to use a simple include call:
><?php
>$base_dir = "/Web Sites/monster-media.com/new";




From eric at ohmforce.com  Fri Jun 15 08:37:04 2001
From: eric at ohmforce.com (Eric Cestari)
Date: Fri Jun 15 08:37:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] php on windows
References: <3B2A08FD.59C64297@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <01f801c0f59f$0e6cf240$9701a8c0@fr>

HI Carley,

 From a quick look, I guess it is the slashes done wrong. As 'include'
accesses the filesystem, you should use the windows directory separator (e.g
"\")

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Cayley Vos <cvos at netpaths.net>
To: evolt tech help <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: [thelist] php on windows


> I am trying to get the directory structure down straight mixing php on a
windows server.  I'm
> getting the error
>
> Failed opening '/Web Sites/monster-media.com/new/includes/meta.inc'...
> here   http://monster-media.com/new/
>
> I am trying to use a simple include call:
> <?php
> $base_dir = "/Web Sites/monster-media.com/new";
>
> ?>
>
> I know php is installed: http://monster-media.com/phpinfo.php
>
> thanks,
>
>
>
> Cayley Vos, Principal
>
> 360.714.8395 office
> 360.223.7799 cell
>
> http://NetPaths.net
> _______________________________
> web design  |  e-commerce  |  i-marketing
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Fri Jun 15 08:56:19 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Fri Jun 15 08:56:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
References: <000001c0f592$1f0bef00$da00a8c0@jsampson>
Message-ID: <005601c0f5a2$edd48990$0b01a8c0@meg>

Sorry, but I remember when Netscape had about 90% of the web browser market,
that changed.  M$ are also now one of the largest publishers of games
software, which is a huge leap considering that only game they used to
publish was Flight Simulator. They are already making major inroads into the
WYSIWYG HTML editor market via FP, and I'm sure that at some point they'll
turn their attentions to the graphics side of things.  I wouldn't put any
market out of the reach of M$

Just my 2ps worth

Norman

Hmmmm, I think I owe a tip for this.


----- Original Message -----
From: "TheEnigma" <TheEnigma at Web-side.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] SVG - who ? what ?


> You really think so?
> MacroM sem to have the web market cornered.
> I know I use them all for a start - and with the buy out of Allair theres
> not much competiton.
> I think this is a market that M$ wont even scratch the surface of.





From chris at completeimaging.com  Fri Jun 15 10:00:11 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:00:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
In-Reply-To: <000001c0f592$1f0bef00$da00a8c0@jsampson>
Message-ID: <000001c0f5ab$b19fb360$0900000a@darrell>

So Micro$oft can't scratch the surface of the web market, eh?

Then how do you account for the large number of websites that are all
run using ASP? I also think that you have forgotten M$'s .NET strategy
to try and guarantee that every computer on earth uses their technology
and only their technology to basically do anything.

Micro$oft may not be venturing far into the wysiwyg web design market,
but they are venturing dangerously far into the web development and
programming market which is really where the big money is for both
businesses and themselves. If they can get companies seamlessly
transferring documents, information, and ideas across their private
network then who cares what editor you use, Micro$oft wins.

Don't be fooled, M$ hasn't forgotten about this little corner of the
market at all, they are simply cornering it in a far more devious method
then merely releasing a new editor.

/chris

-------------------------------------
The only real power that Micro$oft has is the power given to it by the
people. Just think what kind of message would be sent if for just one
day, the entire planet where to boycott M$. That is real power.

<tip type="Homesite, ColdFusion Studio">
If you use either Homesite or ColdFusion studio for your web development
and you find that you are reusing the same code over and over again then
make a snippet out of it and you won't have to retype it. Snippets can
be either a single block of code or they can contain start and end code.
They are a huge time saver in a busy day.
</tip>

> -----Original Message-----
> [quote]
> In theory future browsers will use XML/XHTML, CSS, SMIL and 
> SVG - in practice Micro$oft will probably release their own 
> Vector based graphics format and wipe out the competition :) [/quote]
> 
> You really think so?
> MacroM sem to have the web market cornered.
> I know I use them all for a start - and with the buy out of 
> Allair theres not much competiton. I think this is a market 
> that M$ wont even scratch the surface of.
> 
> Regards
> John Sampson




From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Fri Jun 15 10:16:35 2001
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:16:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home
Message-ID: <3B2A26C3.16340B1E@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

Just FYI... thought you'd find it interesting.
You may not see it, but the date seems to be wrong on Netscape's
homepage. I don't think someone forgot to update the page, but it can't
be a script error either.

</ml>



From chris at completeimaging.com  Fri Jun 15 10:20:50 2001
From: chris at completeimaging.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:20:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home
In-Reply-To: <3B2A26C3.16340B1E@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <000301c0f5ae$92bae390$0900000a@darrell>

You're right, that's hilarious!!! 

I knew Netscape was behind the times, but now we have proof.

/chris

> -----Original Message-----
> Just FYI... thought you'd find it interesting.
> You may not see it, but the date seems to be wrong on 
> Netscape's homepage. I don't think someone forgot to update 
> the page, but it can't be a script error either.




From lists at illyana.com  Fri Jun 15 10:34:35 2001
From: lists at illyana.com (Mal McKay)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:34:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
In-Reply-To: <000001c0f5ab$b19fb360$0900000a@darrell>
Message-ID: <FLEGIOODPKNNPJPGNLMMKEBKDEAA.lists@illyana.com>

The only real power a person has is that given by other people. Just think
if some tried to boycott microsft and everybody around that person drove him
out as an outcast trying to endanger their productivity.
That is real power

>The only real power that Micro$oft has is the power given to it by the
>people. Just think what kind of message would be sent if for just one
>day, the entire planet where to boycott M$. That is real power.




From fayec at canada.com  Fri Jun 15 10:46:25 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (FayeC)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:46:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home
References: <3B2A26C3.16340B1E@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>
Message-ID: <3B2A2D31.CBB83456@canada.com>

????
Friday, June 15, 2001.......right date...

Minh Lee Goon wrote:
> 
> Just FYI... thought you'd find it interesting.
> You may not see it, but the date seems to be wrong on Netscape's
> homepage. I don't think someone forgot to update the page, but it can't
> be a script error either.
> 
> </ml>
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Fri Jun 15 10:49:05 2001
From: v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Minh Lee Goon)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:49:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home
References: <3B2A26C3.16340B1E@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> <3B2A2D31.CBB83456@canada.com>
Message-ID: <3B2A2E60.6C6B7E4@sdsumus.sdstate.edu>

Well, it was fun while it lasted.


FayeC wrote:
> 
> ????
> Friday, June 15, 2001.......right date...
>



From DDenis at inlumen.com  Fri Jun 15 10:53:05 2001
From: DDenis at inlumen.com (Denis, David)
Date: Fri Jun 15 10:53:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
Message-ID: <842FC5D4D50A43469D9CBDE15917249101256987@nycexch.newsalert.com>

> Both currently require browser plugin's, but the flash plugin has 
> much much higher 'market' penetration.

'currently' being the key word I think.  Experiment builds of Mozilla have
SVG support rolled in.  Eventually SVG support should come as part of the
browser, being just another way to handle XML.

> In my own very limited experimentation LiveMotion created SVG files 
> were massive compared Flash files of the same graphic (5 times the 
> size?) - I've no idea whether that has to do with LiveMotion or the 
> SVG format, or just the particular graphic I was using.

Interesting, I would think SVG output to be relatively small, consider they
are just text files.  Of course if you started embedding raster formats then
they will balloon.

> In theory future browsers will use XML/XHTML, CSS, SMIL and SVG - in 

This is the ideal world.  SVG elements in XHTML pages.  All of it truly XML.
You could transform SVG to XHTML for handheld devices or cellphones so they
get the content (if there is any) rather than the animation and images.
Wicked nice.

Dave



From winfried at huslik.de  Fri Jun 15 11:05:00 2001
From: winfried at huslik.de (Winfried Huslik)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:05:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] parsing numbers trap
Message-ID: <E15Aw2C-00030i-00@mrvdom00.schlund.de>

Hi,

<tip type="mySQL, PHP">
just reading about Netscape's blooper, here is something to be wary about:

Given a Date field from mySQL like "2001-08-04" for August 4th 2001, 
I used the

function longDate($d) {
     eval(ereg_replace('(#+)-(#+)-(#+)',
          '$d = mktime(0,0,0,\\2,\\3,\\1);', $d));
     return date ("l jS F Y", $d);
}

to print something like "Saturday 4th August 2001",
but this does NOT work correct for Months or Days 08 and 09! Why?

Numbers starting with zero are interpreted by PHP as octal (which go from
00 to 07). 08 and 09 are illegal octal numbers and taken for zero
which shows totally confused dates.

The second line must read:
     eval(ereg_replace('(#+)-0?(#+)-0?(#+)',
to eliminate the leading zeroes.

</tip>


Winfried Huslik

(take a look at my work at www.owad.de)

-- 
Winfried Huslik Tel+49 821 565606 Fax 565001 <http://www.huslikverlag.de>
Huslik Verlag GmbH  *  Unterfeldweg 3  *  86199 Augsburg  *  Germany 
  There is always an easy solution to every human problem: 
  neat, plausible, and wrong.  (H. L. Mencken)




From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Fri Jun 15 11:07:25 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:07:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533976@ns.magisnetworks.com>

More evidence of the power of Evolt.

spinhead

<tip>
Two simple tools will make troubleshooting ASP simpler - Sometimes, you just
need to see it working, but that mystery error is killing it. Include 'On
Error Resume Next' and you'll see if your whole application is busted or if
you're actually close to success.

The other tool is (surprise) the errors collection. Response.Write
Errors.Num and Errors.Description to the page and give yourself some useful
clues.
</tip>

-----Original Message-----
From: Minh Lee Goon [mailto:v7ac at sdsumus.sdstate.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 8:49 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home


Well, it was fun while it lasted.


FayeC wrote:
> 
> ????
> Friday, June 15, 2001.......right date...
>



From pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com  Fri Jun 15 11:15:26 2001
From: pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com (Pete Prodoehl)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:15:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion file upload with MSIE Mac
Message-ID: <DCEFFCADF5D776408AF1E79FD1DCE1A21AFC20@fort.cygnuspub.com>

We've got a ColdFusion 4.5 application running under Windows NT 4.0. There
is a form that has anumber of text input fields and an input type="file"
field that allows the uploading of an image. When we try to use this form
with MSIE 5.0/Mac OS and do not specify a file to upload ColdFusion pukes
with an error, from what we can tell ColdFusion creates a temp file for the
upload even if no file is uploaded. (If we submit the form and do upload an
image, all works fine...) I'm guessing maybe MSIE 5.0/Mac OS is passing some
value in the form when it gets submitted. We can probably get around it by
checking if the temp file is zero k in size, but has anyone else seen this
problem? Is it a know issue? 

Pete


_____________________________________________________
For more information about Cygnus Business Media, please visit our 
Web site at www.cygnusb2b.com






From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Jun 15 11:17:31 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:17:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] parsing numbers trap
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493072@gate.ti3.com>

> 
> Numbers starting with zero are interpreted by PHP as octal 
> (which go from
> 00 to 07). 08 and 09 are illegal octal numbers and taken for zero
> which shows totally confused dates.
> 

Helluva tip!

What sucks, is that javascript does the same thing. It shows up in the
parseInt() function. When used like so: parseInt('08') --it will get treated
as an octal number. To get around this in javascript, always (!) explicitly
set the radix: parseInt('08',10). There, now all your parseInt's will be
treated as base 10 =)

sgd



From jay at trans-city.com  Fri Jun 15 11:18:21 2001
From: jay at trans-city.com (Jay Greenspan)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:18:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] parsing numbers trap
In-Reply-To: <E15Aw2C-00030i-00@mrvdom00.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <B74FACDF.5A53%jay@trans-city.com>

I'll just mention that MySQL's date_format() offers another way of dealing
with dates like this:

mysql> select date_format('2001-08-04', '%W %M  %D, %Y');
+--------------------------------------------+
| date_format('2001-08-04', '%W %M  %D, %Y') |
+--------------------------------------------+
| Saturday August  4th, 2001                 |
+--------------------------------------------+
1 row in set (0.00 sec)


There are specifiers for about any format you'd need. Check the manual.

-j


on 6/15/01 12:01 PM, Winfried Huslik at winfried at huslik.de wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> <tip type="mySQL, PHP">
> just reading about Netscape's blooper, here is something to be wary about:
> 
> Given a Date field from mySQL like "2001-08-04" for August 4th 2001,
> I used the
> 
> function longDate($d) {
> eval(ereg_replace('(#+)-(#+)-(#+)',
> '$d = mktime(0,0,0,\\2,\\3,\\1);', $d));
> return date ("l jS F Y", $d);
> }
> 
> to print something like "Saturday 4th August 2001",
> but this does NOT work correct for Months or Days 08 and 09! Why?
> 
> Numbers starting with zero are interpreted by PHP as octal (which go from
> 00 to 07). 08 and 09 are illegal octal numbers and taken for zero
> which shows totally confused dates.
> 
> The second line must read:
> eval(ereg_replace('(#+)-0?(#+)-0?(#+)',
> to eliminate the leading zeroes.
> 
> </tip>
> 




From headlemur at qwest.net  Fri Jun 15 11:22:06 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:22:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
Message-ID: <01b701c0f5b5$f87b74e0$0b646464@qwest.net>

Killing smart tags.....

The tag is this: 

<meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="TRUE">

And the source for this is the MS IE6 newsgroup:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=eDkIfn78AHA.1884%40tkmsftngp05

Hat Tip: Bill Mason
http://www.data1701d.com


the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt.org
http://www.evolt.org
Lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Fri Jun 15 11:28:41 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:28:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <01b701c0f5b5$f87b74e0$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIKEJLIPAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

I would love to know why I have to 'opt out' on my web site. Shouldn't MS be
making it so that people have to opt in? I guess that would be crazy.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:12 PM
> To: !Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
>
>
> Killing smart tags.....
>
> The tag is this:
>
> <meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="TRUE">
>
> And the source for this is the MS IE6 newsgroup:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=eDkIfn78AHA.1884%40tkmsftngp05
>
> Hat Tip: Bill Mason
> http://www.data1701d.com
>
>
> the head lemur
> Web Standards
> http://www.webstandards.org
> Evolt.org
> http://www.evolt.org
> Lemurzone
> http://www.lemurzone.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk  Fri Jun 15 11:35:16 2001
From: jhaworth at witanjardine.co.uk (Jon Haworth)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:35:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] parsing numbers trap
Message-ID: <67DF9B67CEFAD4119E4200D0B720FA3F53FBA2@BOOTROS>

Also, you can store your dates as unix timestamps in an integer column.
Makes date calculations a *lot* easier in PHP, and if you want to display it
on the screen you just bung it through date("jS F Y", $timestamp) or
something similar.

Cheers
Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Greenspan [mailto:jay at trans-city.com]
Sent: 15 June 2001 17:15
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] parsing numbers trap


I'll just mention that MySQL's date_format() offers another way of dealing
with dates like this:

mysql> select date_format('2001-08-04', '%W %M  %D, %Y');
+--------------------------------------------+
| date_format('2001-08-04', '%W %M  %D, %Y') |
+--------------------------------------------+
| Saturday August  4th, 2001                 |
+--------------------------------------------+
1 row in set (0.00 sec)


There are specifiers for about any format you'd need. Check the manual.

-j


**********************************************************************
'The information included in this Email is of a confidential nature and is 
intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, 
any disclosure, copying or distribution by you is prohibited and may be 
unlawful. Disclosure to any party other than the addressee, whether 
inadvertent or otherwise is not intended to waive privilege or confidentiality'

**********************************************************************



From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Fri Jun 15 11:41:37 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:41:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533978@ns.magisnetworks.com>

Their target audience is the site visitor, not the designer or owner. They
think visitors will prefer taggable sites to non-taggable. 

It's all about innovation (in a self-serving way.) We all want the web to
grow and improve. Most businesses aren't altruistic enough to try to benefit
the web without any thought for their own business model.

Previous efforts in this direction died on their own.

spinhead


-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond Camden [mailto:jedimaster at macromedia.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:28 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Smart Tag Not


I would love to know why I have to 'opt out' on my web site. Shouldn't MS be
making it so that people have to opt in? I guess that would be crazy.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of the head lemur
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:12 PM
> To: !Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
>
>
> Killing smart tags.....
>
> The tag is this:
>
> <meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="TRUE">
>
> And the source for this is the MS IE6 newsgroup:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=eDkIfn78AHA.1884%40tkmsftngp05
>
> Hat Tip: Bill Mason
> http://www.data1701d.com
>
>
> the head lemur
> Web Standards
> http://www.webstandards.org
> Evolt.org
> http://www.evolt.org
> Lemurzone
> http://www.lemurzone.com
>
>



From cspruck at mindspring.com  Fri Jun 15 11:41:47 2001
From: cspruck at mindspring.com (cspruck at mindspring.com)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:41:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] ColdFusion file upload with MSIE Mac
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.992623147.0.58431700@www.springmail.com>

Pete,

thelist at lists.evolt.org wrote:
>We've got a ColdFusion 4.5 application running under Windows NT 4.0. >There is a form that has anumber of text input fields and an input >type="file" field that allows the uploading of an image. When we try >to use this form with MSIE 5.0/Mac OS and do not specify a file to >upload ColdFusion pukes with an error, 
<snip>
>I'm guessing maybe MSIE 5.0/Mac OS is passing some
>value in the form when it gets submitted.

Your last statement is correct. For some reason, a space gets appended to form fields that are passed with Mac IE5, so if you use the Trim function on the file field variable before the CFFILE code on your form processor page, it might set the value to null and not throw an error when you submit the rest of the form. 

HTH!
Chris



From JCanfield at magisnetworks.com  Fri Jun 15 11:48:17 2001
From: JCanfield at magisnetworks.com (Canfield, Joel)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:48:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] e-mail client that plays well with Outlook2000?
Message-ID: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533979@ns.magisnetworks.com>

Does anyone have experience with an e-mail client that will co-exist with
Outlook 2000? I'm running Win2K. I'd like to start using more of OL2K's
features in-house, but still have a simple text-only separate client
available.

Joel D Canfield
Applications Manager
Magis Networks, Inc.
jcanfield at magisnetworks.com
858.523.2328 



From sgd at ti3.com  Fri Jun 15 11:52:18 2001
From: sgd at ti3.com (Scott Dexter)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:52:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] e-mail client that plays well with Outlook2000?
Message-ID: <8C8B8745C0FE7A43BFA6CABAB3211172493079@gate.ti3.com>

That pull mail from the same account?

I've got Netscape's email client running, no problems. Email clients (IME)
don't collide like browsers. You should be go to go...

Also, you can have OL2K do everything in plain text (I run full on Outlook,
and all my stuff is plain text, even to others here in the office)

sgd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Canfield, Joel [mailto:JCanfield at magisnetworks.com]

> Does anyone have experience with an e-mail client that will 
> co-exist with
> Outlook 2000? I'm running Win2K. I'd like to start using more 
> of OL2K's
> features in-house, but still have a simple text-only separate client
> available.



From spalmisano at usaiss.com  Fri Jun 15 11:53:43 2001
From: spalmisano at usaiss.com (Salvatore Palmisano)
Date: Fri Jun 15 11:53:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] e-mail client that plays well with Outlook2000?
In-Reply-To: <F1B92B253AF9D3119DEA0090273EF9DD26263C@ISSDC2>
Message-ID: <F1B92B253AF9D3119DEA0090273EF9DD1D386D@ISSDC2>

Outlook Express isnt text-only, but it does co-exist with little or no
issues.

--Sal

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Canfield, Joel
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 12:46 PM
To: Evolt (E-mail)
Subject: [thelist] e-mail client that plays well with Outlook2000?


Does anyone have experience with an e-mail client that will co-exist with
Outlook 2000? I'm running Win2K. I'd like to start using more of OL2K's
features in-house, but still have a simple text-only separate client
available.

Joel




From found at warmonger.net  Fri Jun 15 12:05:18 2001
From: found at warmonger.net (found at warmonger.net)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:05:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIKEJLIPAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>
Message-ID: <992624560.237@warmonger.net>

On Jun 15 12:27, "Raymond Camden" <jedimaster at macromedia.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
>
> I would love to know why I have to 'opt out' on my web site. Shouldn't MS be
> making it so that people have to opt in? I guess that would be crazy.

I think this "smart linking" nonsense is going to be what (finally) brings class action suits about.  It's bad enough that people take voluntary requests for visiting 'bot behavior (robots.txt) and claim it as republication permission
for copyrighted material.  Now MS wants to commender other people's property (content) for their own economic uses.  

I'm sorry if this seems extreme to some... I'm not even talking about my personal sites though.  I work for a state judiciary.  Imagine this:

* A racist site/organization pays for "smart links" stemming from diversity statements on our official Judicial website.  (Every ethnic term pointing to specific hate material)

* A construction company pays to have state supreme court judges names "smart link" to their web site, thereby implying an endorsement for their firm for state contracts.

* A legal firm pays to have "smart links" from our family law section (or any
law section) to their firm, thereby implying they can provide special consideration in a plaintiff's/defendant's case.

* A toy company pays to have the title of our kids section link to their christmas sales site.  (I don't even want to think how COPPA would handle that.)

Our web team works hard to keep us from appearing to endorse any company through linking.  They also seek to keep us from being only one or two links away from sex sites.  However, MS's current plans would eliminate all that *without* our consent.


I understand how "smart links" could be helpful.  But MS doesn't seem to swift when it comes to implementing them.



From Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com  Fri Jun 15 12:11:23 2001
From: Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com (Rory.Plaire at wahchang.com)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:11:23 2001
Subject: [thelist] Deep, Lopsided Navigation Systems
Message-ID: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9BA3@ARNOLD>

Hi Ben,

I like the concept of Inxight's browser (http://www.inxight.com) although it
is a java applet. There are some examples which have been buried over the
last year (they used to be linked on the front page!) now at
http://www.inxight.com/products_wb/ht_server/ht_server_demos.html. The
people which developed this concept are the same that brought the UI, the
mouse and SmallTalk: yep, the Xerox PARC team. (see:
http://www.inxight.com/news/press_release/archives/1996/infoseek.html)

This concept is deeply rooted in several usability principles and rules, of
them visibility (see what you need, don't see what you don't), reuse of
habitual activities and feedback (just point to where you want to go, and
click to _see_ yourself move there), and support (by making new things
possible, and the same old browsing activity faster and more fun). Of
course, it could be improved to assist those with effective skills in
searching -- the rule of efficacy and of progression -- like by allowing
"groups of nodes" or restructuring of the tree or a "wormhole" concept.
Right clicking and a "search for more like this" would be a great time
saver, too.

<rory disposition="kindly my $0.02 before inflation and taxes" alt="8)"/>

 
| What are some good examples of corporate sites that have very 
| deep, very 
| consistent navigation that handle these conditions well?
| 
| Thanks.
| 
| --Ben 



From sam at sam-i-am.com  Fri Jun 15 12:25:03 2001
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:25:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] screen ocr.. kleptomania alternatives?
Message-ID: <3B2A4473.CCCA09B5@sam-i-am.com>

hi there, 
I keep getting sent (digital) comps with the text already flattened,
rasterized. 
I had been running a trial copy of Kleptomania (winnt) to capture and
OCR sections of the text on the screeen to avoid re-keying everthing.
but the ocr quality was not that great. Even telling it what font it
was, on non-anti-aliased text I found it made mistakes. (WTF?)
Anyone know any alternatives.. or have better experience with
Kleptomania?

(kleptomania: shareware/demoware at
http://www.structurise.com/kleptomania/index.htm
 great idea, but some disappointing results..)

thanks
Sam



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Jun 15 12:30:04 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:30:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <01b701c0f5b5$f87b74e0$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010615122540.00b38ef0@redhotsweeps.com>

Interesting.  I downloaded IE6 so that I could atleast see with my own eyes 
what a smart tag looks like.  Can't find the option to turn it on.  Anyone 
know where it is?

Two things I did find is the option to turn off META TAG refresh and to not 
allow navigation across sub-frames.  While I am not sure about the 
"definition" of navigation across sub-frames, I don't like the meta refresh 
option.

Thoughts?

Chris

At 11:12 AM 6/15/2001, you wrote:
>Killing smart tags.....
>
>The tag is this:
>
><meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="TRUE">
>
>And the source for this is the MS IE6 newsgroup:
>http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=eDkIfn78AHA.1884%40tkmsftngp05
>
>Hat Tip: Bill Mason
>http://www.data1701d.com
>
>
>the head lemur
>Web Standards
>http://www.webstandards.org
>Evolt.org
>http://www.evolt.org
>Lemurzone
>http://www.lemurzone.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From chrisg at gsnet.com  Fri Jun 15 12:33:24 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:33:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] screen ocr.. kleptomania alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <3B2A4473.CCCA09B5@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <B74FA267.3841%chrisg@gsnet.com>

SnagIt (32 bit)?

If I recall it does screen OCR...

http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10077-100-5816629.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-1.lst-7-1.5816629

But after reading the description again - maybe not.

--
cdg

on 6/15/2001 11:22 AM, Sam-I-Am at sam at sam-i-am.com wrote:

> hi there, 
> I keep getting sent (digital) comps with the text already flattened,
> rasterized. 
> I had been running a trial copy of Kleptomania (winnt) to capture and
> OCR sections of the text on the screeen to avoid re-keying everthing.
> but the ocr quality was not that great. Even telling it what font it
> was, on non-anti-aliased text I found it made mistakes. (WTF?)
> Anyone know any alternatives.. or have better experience with
> Kleptomania?
> 
> (kleptomania: shareware/demoware at
> http://www.structurise.com/kleptomania/index.htm
> great idea, but some disappointing results..)
> 
> thanks
> Sam




From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 15 12:37:49 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:37:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <01b701c0f5b5$f87b74e0$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <200106151737.f5FHbmq17858@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "the head lemur" <headlemur at qwest.net>
[...] 
> And the source for this is the MS IE6 newsgroup:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=eDkIfn78AHA.1884%40tkmsftngp
> 05
> 
> Hat Tip: Bill Mason
> http://www.data1701d.com

can you post this as a comment to the article on the site?  
http://evolt.org/article/lemurs_are_fun/1/11252/index.html

i'd do it, but it's your scoopage... that, and that article is a handy 
one-stop for me to get the skinny from the comments...





From webwarrior at directionx.com  Fri Jun 15 12:45:44 2001
From: webwarrior at directionx.com (Brendan W. Vittum)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:45:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] e-mail client that plays well with Outlook2000?
In-Reply-To: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533979@ns.magisnetworks.com>
References: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533979@ns.magisnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <guhkitg2ci7v63n9cb8l9q0f126agua0ar@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:45:35 -0700, you wrote:

>Does anyone have experience with an e-mail client that will co-exist with
>Outlook 2000? I'm running Win2K. I'd like to start using more of OL2K's
>features in-house, but still have a simple text-only separate client
>available.

Joel -=-

I personally like Agent by Forte - http://www.forteinc.com/
pure text reader that I have never had trouble with, nor been able to
infect on purpose or by accident.

=============================================
Brendan W. Vittum                 webwarrior at directionx.com

This email may be confidential and contain commercially
sensitive information.  Only the intended recipient[s] may
access or use it.  If you are not the intended recipient[s]
please delete this email and notify us promptly. We use 
virus scanning software but exclude all liability for 
viruses or similar in this email or any attachment.



From mark at velir.com  Fri Jun 15 12:46:39 2001
From: mark at velir.com (Mark Gregor)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:46:39 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Stress Tester
In-Reply-To: <200106151737.f5FHbmq17858@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001001c0f5c2$025a3260$0201a8c0@gateway.ne.mediaone.net>

Hi all,

Anyone have some good recommendations for applications that will stress
test a site?  What we're looking for is something that will traverse the
site simulating a defined number of simultaneous requests and then
return a report on response time.

The site I'd like to test is on a Unix box, but NT based testers would
also be helpful.

Thanks much!

Mark




From data at data1701d.com  Fri Jun 15 12:49:44 2001
From: data at data1701d.com (Bill Mason)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:49:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <200106151737.f5FHbmq17858@leo.evolt.org>
References: <01b701c0f5b5$f87b74e0$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010615104616.00a60c40@data1701d.com>

At 10:35 AM 6/15/01, you wrote:
> > And the source for this is the MS IE6 newsgroup:
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=eDkIfn78AHA.1884%40tkmsftngp
> > 05
> >
> > Hat Tip: Bill Mason
> > http://www.data1701d.com
>
>can you post this as a comment to the article on the site?
>http://evolt.org/article/lemurs_are_fun/1/11252/index.html
>
>i'd do it, but it's your scoopage... that, and that article is a handy
>one-stop for me to get the skinny from the comments...

Well, the comment before mine has a link to the same info so I didn't post 
that again.

I *did* post the discovery that the user can override Smart Tags regardless 
of the <META> tag, by clicking off an option in IE6.  See my comment on the 
article for that nightmare!

Bill Mason
data at data1701d.com
Dateline: Starfleet
http://www.data1701d.com
http://profile.guru.com/billmason




From sam at sam-i-am.com  Fri Jun 15 12:56:19 2001
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:56:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] screen ocr.. kleptomania alternatives?
References: <B74FA267.3841%chrisg@gsnet.com>
Message-ID: <3B2A4BC9.C6B555BA@sam-i-am.com>

> SnagIt (32 bit)?
> 
> If I recall it does screen OCR...
> 
> http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10077-100-5816629.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
> 103-1.lst-7-1.5816629
> 
> But after reading the description again - maybe not.

it does have a text capture mode.. but it doesn't actually OCR bitmaps,
just looks for all text. And on NT even this is limited to the clipboard
or a fullscreen DOS window (though who knows why...)

I would have thought it would be vastly easier to OCR from the screen
than from a scanned document... but I must be missing something as I
can't find much out there. 
I guess I could install conventional OCR software and point it at a
screenshot.. but the idea is to save time here!

Sam



From chrisg at gsnet.com  Fri Jun 15 12:58:19 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Fri Jun 15 12:58:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] screen ocr.. kleptomania alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <3B2A4BC9.C6B555BA@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <B74FA83F.384B%chrisg@gsnet.com>

Ah, sucks.

What about Acrobat?

on 6/15/2001 11:54 AM, Sam-I-Am at sam at sam-i-am.com wrote:

>> SnagIt (32 bit)?
> 
> it does have a text capture mode.. but it doesn't actually OCR bitmaps,
> just looks for all text. And on NT even this is limited to the clipboard
> or a fullscreen DOS window (though who knows why...)
[snip]
> Sam




From headlemur at qwest.net  Fri Jun 15 13:00:29 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Fri Jun 15 13:00:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
References: <200106151737.f5FHbmq17858@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <023d01c0f5c4$1cf6b7e0$0b646464@qwest.net>

> can you post this as a comment to the article on the site?
> http://evolt.org/article/lemurs_are_fun/1/11252/index.html


Not yet....

<snip>

from webdesign-l with permission
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

OK, now I'm completely in the "SmartTags are evil" camp.

Why?

Well, this meta tag does not work:

<meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="TRUE">

I tested it on my IE6/Windows XP system.

The problem is that the user can over-ride the meta tag and decide to see
the SmartTags anyway, even if the site's designer doesn't want you to see
any SmartTags done by other people.

This is BULL. Support Dave Winer's "Microsoft-free Friday's" campaign at
http://www.scripting.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
>How does the user do it?   (Asking without access to IE6/XP to play with.)

See this image of the Internet Tools/Options/Advanced/Smart Tags options
area:

http://w3future.com/pics/smarttagopts.gif

If a user selects "Always have Web pages display available smart tags"
that's exactly what happens, even if your page has the meta tag telling
browsers not to display them.

Robert Scoble
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

sigh and i was in the middle of putting together a redhat/apache box.....
all formatted and no where to go.....






From java_fella at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 15 13:36:35 2001
From: java_fella at yahoo.com (Thomas Granger)
Date: Fri Jun 15 13:36:35 2001
Subject: [thelist] Using HTML email article
In-Reply-To: <20010615154021.7D22DCC0@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20010615183401.24997.qmail@web3201.mail.yahoo.com>

These are the first three really, really, really,
really, rough drafts of a 6 part article on HTML
email. Each articles needs to be 2-3x longer and with
more examples.

I finished a 25 page report for a consulting company
and am adapting the more basic parts to a web article.

Please help me flesh out any parts you think need to
be more interesting (it all needs it right now)..it is
just a basic skeleton.

If you can think of any illustrations or personal
examples, I'd love to include them.

Parts 1-3 (on my site..not quite ready for prime time)

http://www.florentinedesign.com/articles/html_email.htm
http://www.florentinedesign.com/articles/html_email_uness.htm
http://www.florentinedesign.com/articles/html_email_java.htm

Thanks, 

Tom


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/



From djc at starkmedia.com  Fri Jun 15 14:06:36 2001
From: djc at starkmedia.com (Daniel J. Cody)
Date: Fri Jun 15 14:06:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Date is wrong on Netscape's home
References: <07094CF930EBD311AF7900B0D0200851533976@ns.magisnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B2A7812.3000906@starkmedia.com>

Ya never know :)

There are a decent number of netscape employee folks(from the netcenter 
and mozilla divisions) on thelist, maybe they saw that come through and 
fixed the prob :)

<tip type="linux">

If you're system clock on your linux box is off use :

/usr/bin/rdate -s -p <NTP server>

Make sure you use a NTP server from your timezone though when updating :)
</tip>

.djc.

Canfield, Joel wrote:

> More evidence of the power of Evolt.
> 
> spinhead

> Well, it was fun while it lasted.





From gozz at gozz.com  Fri Jun 15 14:36:11 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Fri Jun 15 14:36:11 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <992624560.237@warmonger.net>
References: <992624560.237@warmonger.net>
Message-ID: <p04310105b7500fdcf4ea@[192.168.1.100]>

I would think that there is a army of copyright attorneys chomping at the bit.

What is the difference between:

A. Me dynamically modifying the content of your website and 
redistributing that content from my website.

B. Creating an application that does the same thing from the desktop.

The whole concept seems so surreal that it seems as though it might 
be a smokescreen for something even more evil ...

But maybe we should just hush up and hope it is the last act in the 
MS farce, found at warmonger.net - your comments were insightful.




-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From john_meyer at geocities.com  Fri Jun 15 14:36:21 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Fri Jun 15 14:36:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615133021.009fbec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, I have gone to several sites where the article is split over several 
different pages.  Does anybody have an idea/tutorial/faq about how this is 
done (generally) and how it can be done specifically in PHP?  Thanks.




From john_meyer at geocities.com  Fri Jun 15 14:47:37 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Fri Jun 15 14:47:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <p04310105b7500fdcf4ea@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <992624560.237@warmonger.net>
 <992624560.237@warmonger.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615134214.009f79d0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 02:32 PM 6/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>I would think that there is a army of copyright attorneys chomping at the bit.
>
>What is the difference between:
>
>A. Me dynamically modifying the content of your website and redistributing 
>that content from my website.
>
>B. Creating an application that does the same thing from the desktop.
>
>The whole concept seems so surreal that it seems as though it might be a 
>smokescreen for something even more evil ...
>
>But maybe we should just hush up and hope it is the last act in the MS 
>farce, found at warmonger.net - your comments were insightful.
>

Yeah, but you have to remember, copyright attorneys only go after things 
that are popular, such as Napster, not things that are unpopular, like 
Microsoft*

Obligatory MS bash of the day


John Meyer
john_meyer at geocities.com
Programmer


If we didn't have Microsoft, we'd have to blame ourselves for all of our 
programs crashing




From poojie at dccnet.com  Fri Jun 15 14:49:52 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Fri Jun 15 14:49:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615133021.009fbec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002501c0f5d4$3e5dcb20$b5e6e6cf@strung>

Hello.

This is almost always (if not _always_) done using a database to
store the article in seperate pages. You may or may not be keen on
the idea of using a database or you may not be able to run a
database on your server, so you could also do this using plain old
text files by storing each page in a seperate file
(articlename_1.txt .. articlename_4.txt). This probably isn't worth
it though as it would be pretty taxing on your server depending on
what kind of traffic you are getteing.

As for tutorials and all that, check out http://www.phpbuilder.com/
.


Daryl


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Meyer" <john_meyer at geocities.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 1:31 PM
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting


Hi, I have gone to several sites where the article is split over
several
different pages.  Does anybody have an idea/tutorial/faq about how
this is
done (generally) and how it can be done specifically in PHP?
Thanks.


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Fri Jun 15 14:54:07 2001
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Fri Jun 15 14:54:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tag Not
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615134214.009f79d0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <HAENKEFLHMLPLLFPNMEIIEKPIPAA.jedimaster@macromedia.com>

> Yeah, but you have to remember, copyright attorneys only go after things
> that are popular, such as Napster, not things that are unpopular, like
> Microsoft*
>

Also, I bet MS convinces a large majority of the 'big' sites that this is a
good thing. This leaves people like me, who run a site but could not afford
to bring a suit against MS.

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, Principal Spectra Compliance Engineer for Macromedia

Email   : jedimaster at macromedia.com
ICQ UIN : 3679482

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From john_meyer at geocities.com  Fri Jun 15 15:00:17 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Fri Jun 15 15:00:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting
In-Reply-To: <002501c0f5d4$3e5dcb20$b5e6e6cf@strung>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615133021.009fbec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615135244.009efd90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 12:49 PM 6/15/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello.
>
>This is almost always (if not _always_) done using a database to
>store the article in seperate pages. You may or may not be keen on
>the idea of using a database or you may not be able to run a
>database on your server, so you could also do this using plain old
>text files by storing each page in a seperate file
>(articlename_1.txt .. articlename_4.txt). This probably isn't worth
>it though as it would be pretty taxing on your server depending on
>what kind of traffic you are getteing.
>
>As for tutorials and all that, check out http://www.phpbuilder.com/



Alright, now here's my big question:  can you persist the variable of the 
string over n-number of pages.  What I was getting at was this

1.  User clicks on article
2.  If the querystring is nothing, then open the recordset and split the 
article across four or five sections into an arrray and display the first 
one.  Otherwise, take the pagenumber variable of the recordset (2,3,4) and 
display that item in the array.




From poojie at dccnet.com  Fri Jun 15 15:10:07 2001
From: poojie at dccnet.com (Poojie)
Date: Fri Jun 15 15:10:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Site Stress Tester
References: <001001c0f5c2$025a3260$0201a8c0@gateway.ne.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <006101c0f5d7$17c11f00$b5e6e6cf@strung>

quote:
-----------------------------
The site I'd like to test is on a Unix box, but NT based testers
would
also be helpful.
-----------------------------


I have been searching for something this recently myself and I have
found a few cool programs. Socrates is probably one of the better
ones but it is no longer available on the web (at least that I can
find). I was lucky enough to find someone willing to send a copy to
me though (it is Postcard-Ware, so it was a legal exchange :] ).
That person, btw, was Joshua Chamas who I found through the server
benchmarks on his site ( http://www.chamas.com/bench/index.html ).
I'd be happy to send it to you via email as well (the file is
around 140KB).

Are few others:

http://webperformanceinc.com/
http://www.webforged.net/Typhoon/Typhoon.html
http://www.mindcraft.com/webstone/

Daryl






From marty at face2interface.com  Fri Jun 15 17:09:14 2001
From: marty at face2interface.com (Marty Landman)
Date: Fri Jun 15 17:09:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615133021.009fbec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010615155330.00a06ec0@pop.ulster.net>

At 01:31 pm 6/15/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi, I have gone to several sites where the article is split over several 
>different pages.  Does anybody have an idea/tutorial/faq about how this is 
>done (generally) and how it can be done specifically in PHP?

Sure, my web authoring product SIMPL lets you do this from the content 
input screen. Check out the links at the bottom of the page 
http://newdiets.com/index/Getting_Started.shtml. The page splits are 
specified within the article content by the author, and the rendering 
software creates the separate pages and links on the fly.

SIMPL is written in Perl, but it could have been written in PHP.

Marty

Face 2 Interface Web Solutions
Website Creation Made SIMPL(tm)
Online Demo Available
http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml




From philippe.jadin at 123piano.com  Fri Jun 15 17:30:43 2001
From: philippe.jadin at 123piano.com (Philippe Jadin)
Date: Fri Jun 15 17:30:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
References: <OE44qVDokSUIwMw8lOD00001303@hotmail.com> <a05100300b74f7b68f0f6@[62.255.154.58]>
Message-ID: <008b01c0f5ea$c66c1ba0$6b98043e@r3g4p8>

> In my own very limited experimentation LiveMotion created SVG files
> were massive compared Flash files of the same graphic (5 times the
> size?) - I've no idea whether that has to do with LiveMotion or the
> SVG format, or just the particular graphic I was using.

Flash is binary, svg is xml, that should explain why svg takes much more
place. When compressing an svg file, you get roughly the same size as an
equivalent flash file.

Technically speaking, svg is _far_ better than flash. For example, it
supports effects, such as blur, glow, etc... you can build your own effects.
For instance, a dropshaddow fx is 2 or 3 lines of code to define it, then
you can apply it to any part of your svg (like a css style).

The fact that svg is xml text is a very good thing : you can generate almost
anything with any server-side *and* client side language. You can directly
embed most formats such as jpg, sounds, etc... (in theory).

I really hope svg will be used in the near future, as it is clearly a good
format for print- and web- design. It could replace flash and pdf and...

Philippe




From lgroebe at Insidermarketing.com  Fri Jun 15 17:31:09 2001
From: lgroebe at Insidermarketing.com (Larry Groebe)
Date: Fri Jun 15 17:31:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: dumb idea
Message-ID: <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>

Well, now that people have found the meta tag that (mostly) disables,
Microsoft Smart Tags, it gave me an idea.

Clearly webmasters need to add the meta tags to their sites if they believe
(as I do) that Smart Tags are Bad Thing.

But we also need to be able to alert our readers that they are in a "Smart
Tag Free Zone" whose content can be trusted to conform to the site owner's
design and not MS or anyone else's.

So I've created a button in the style of those "Best Viewed With..." buttons
that you can add to your site if you wish. You can find it (along with some
explanation to point your readers to) at:

http://www.genericradio.com/smarttags

--Larry




From RyanF at SonicFoundry.com  Fri Jun 15 17:47:33 2001
From: RyanF at SonicFoundry.com (Ryan Finley)
Date: Fri Jun 15 17:47:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: dumb idea
Message-ID: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D281D55AB@flash>

<<
Well, now that people have found the meta tag that (mostly) disables,
Microsoft Smart Tags, it gave me an idea.

Clearly webmasters need to add the meta tags to their sites if they believe
(as I do) that Smart Tags are Bad Thing.

But we also need to be able to alert our readers that they are in a "Smart
Tag Free Zone" whose content can be trusted to conform to the site owner's
design and not MS or anyone else's.

So I've created a button in the style of those "Best Viewed With..." buttons
that you can add to your site if you wish. You can find it (along with some
explanation to point your readers to) at:

http://www.genericradio.com/smarttags
>>

This is funny...

But I still cling to my belief that I'd like to actually SEE the software,
USE the software, and then FORM my opinion.

Not the reverse order.


	Ryan Finley
	President - SurveyMonkey.com (http://www.surveymonkey.com)



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Fri Jun 15 18:31:04 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Fri Jun 15 18:31:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64C8@mailhost.summithq.com>

not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost

hi!

the client wants me to popup a window. for this i'm using:

function popUp(theURL,winName,features) {
  window.open(theURL,winName,features);
  window.focus();
}


the link trigger is:
<a
href="javascript:popUp('mypage.htm','PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640')">l
ink</a>


mypage.htm has a statement: 

<BODY onLoad="self.focus">

still, i can't consistently get focus on NT with IE5.5.

what have i done wrong with my script? i have to get this done in about 3
hours! <Sigh>

thanks,

fortune

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--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Jun 15 18:42:14 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Jun 15 18:42:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
Message-ID: <01c0f5f4$57b9e5c0$9949149a@rudy>

>     <a href="javascript:popUp('mypage.htm'
>          ,'PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640')"
>         >link</a>


hi fortune

try this instead

    <a href="mypage.htm"  target="_blank"
         onClick="popUp('mypage.htm'
          , 'PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640');
       return false;">link</a>

when you use the javascript protocol as the href, i *think* (willing to be
corrected -- jeff?) what happens is that even if the popup has self.focus,
the parent window gets focus after executing the link

the suggested format is better because the link will work even if
javascript is turned off


rudy




From michele at wordpro.on.ca  Fri Jun 15 18:45:22 2001
From: michele at wordpro.on.ca (Michele Foster)
Date: Fri Jun 15 18:45:22 2001
Subject: [thelist] Toronto Beervolt - Saturday, June 23rd
Message-ID: <007601c0f5f4$e5a51300$a30d9ad8@mef>

Hi Folks... 

Very short announcement here ... 

Toronto Beervolt get-together scheduled for Saturday, June 23.

Who'll be there:  

djc - Daniel Cody .. from Wisconsin
aardvark - Adrian Roselli .. from Buffalo
Rudy Limeback ... local 
Bob Davis ... from New Hampshire (I think?)
Marlene Bruce .. from Washington DC 
and myself .. local

Location:  suggestions on the chat 
Time:  to be determined

Further discussion on thechat.  [please don't post here on thelist]

Sign up at:  http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/thechat
Sent mail to:  thechat at lists.evolt.org
View the archives:  http://lists.evolt.org/thechatarchive/

Final details will be announced on thechat next Wednesday.


Let's show these 'mericans a good time eh?? 

Thanks,

Michele





From moe at maxim-ic.com  Fri Jun 15 18:48:24 2001
From: moe at maxim-ic.com (Moe Rubenzahl)
Date: Fri Jun 15 18:48:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need web-based freight/shipping management software
In-Reply-To: <B73AC09D.4FDE%jay@trans-city.com>
References: <B73AC09D.4FDE%jay@trans-city.com>
Message-ID: <p05100331b7504e6e38c0@[63.72.45.105]>

Looking for web-based software a company can use to manage its
freight needs. Examples: An employee in the Paramus office initiates
a shipping order which is then electronically transmitted to freight
companies for bid; then the bid is selected and the shipping is
arranged. The system tracks and consolidates payments, etc.

Anyone know about this?



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Fri Jun 15 18:49:49 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Fri Jun 15 18:49:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for re
	post
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64CA@mailhost.summithq.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: rudy [mailto:r937 at interlog.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:39 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for
repost


>     <a href="javascript:popUp('mypage.htm'
>          ,'PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640')"
>         >link</a>


hi rudy!
thanks for your help! but:

>    <a href="mypage.htm"  target="_blank"
>         onClick="popUp('mypage.htm'
>          , 'PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640');
 >      return false;">link</a>

doesn't work reliably either. any other ideas?

tia,

fortune





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
The views and opinions expressed in this email message are the sender's
own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From moe at maxim-ic.com  Fri Jun 15 18:56:49 2001
From: moe at maxim-ic.com (Moe Rubenzahl)
Date: Fri Jun 15 18:56:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] Newbie: web-based db
In-Reply-To: <F10oMWH1KOzMTlu6h3800012d56@hotmail.com>
References: <F10oMWH1KOzMTlu6h3800012d56@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05100333b7504f9c7fac@[63.72.45.105]>

>I want to build a database to be accessed via browser.  I want to be 
>able to do all the work from home (on a Mac (OS 8.6)).  I don't want 
>to spend any money.

www.formsite.com lets you set up forms and basic databases for free. 
Might be able to accomplish your application.

No free web-serving databases for the Mac that I know of but if you 
are willing to spend a -little- money, get a used copy of FileMaker. 
Basic web forms capability has been in there for a couple of revs.

Advantage to both these solutions is they are easy and suitable for a newbie.



From dwayne at iconys.com  Fri Jun 15 19:05:00 2001
From: dwayne at iconys.com (dwayne)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:05:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64C8@mailhost.summithq.com>
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64C8@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <01061518045807.01504@dante.telusplanet.net>

in addition to rudy's suggestion, you need to make a couple other changes...

On Friday 15 June 2001 23:28, Fortune Elkins wrote:
> the client wants me to popup a window. for this i'm using:

function popUp(theURL,winName,features) {

    //you need to take a reference to the window
    //you're creating
    popWin = window.open(theURL,winName,features);

    // and set a time out so the window has time to
    // come into existence before you try to give it focus
    setTimeout('popWin.focus()', 500);
}

i think that should do it...if it doesn't, shout out and maybe one of the 
gurs is about.

- dwayne



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Jun 15 19:06:29 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:06:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
Message-ID: <01c0f5f7$d265fb80$9949149a@rudy>

>>    <a href="mypage.htm"  target="_blank"
>>         onClick="popUp('mypage.htm'
>>          , 'PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640');
> >      return false;">link</a>
>
>doesn't work reliably either. any other ideas?

oh, it's reliable, but maybe not at giving focus to the popup window, which
is what you're trying to do...

i am not a javascript expert, but isn't it supposed to be

    <body onLoad="self.focus()">

with the () parentheses?

if that doesn't work, you can try forcing focus from the main window by
altering the link as follows

      <a href="mypage.htm"  target="_blank"
           onClick="popUp('mypage.htm'
            , 'PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640');
        PopUpWindow.focus(); return false; ">link</a>

if that don't work either, i have run out of ideas and would love to see
the page for myself...


rudy




From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Jun 15 19:13:09 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:13:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
Message-ID: <01c0f5f8$c24e9bc0$9949149a@rudy>

hi fortune

thanks to dwayne for the inspiration

the reason it's not working is because of your function

   function popUp(theURL,winName,features) {
        window.open(theURL,winName,features);
         window.focus();   }

see, when this runs in the main window, the last line, window.focus(), it's
referring to the main window!!

change this to

   function popUp(theURL,winName,features) {
        winName=window.open(theURL,winName,features);
        winName.focus();   }

and then i think you can ditch the onload in the popup's BODY

and also ditch the focus in the link, because it's there in the function


rudy





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Fri Jun 15 19:16:25 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:16:25 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
In-Reply-To: <01c0f5f4$57b9e5c0$9949149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELAEECHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

fortune & rudy,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: rudy
:
: > <a
: >
href="javascript:popUp('mypage.htm','PopUpWindow','width=520,height=640')"
: > >link</a>
:
: try this instead
:
: <a href="mypage.htm"  target="_blank"
:    onClick="popUp('mypage.htm', 'PopUpWindow', 'width=520,height=640');
:             return false;"
: >link</a>
:
: when you use the javascript protocol as the href,
: i *think* (willing to be corrected -- jeff?) what
: happens is that even if the popup has self.focus,
: the parent window gets focus after executing the
: link
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that's been my experience.  however, there have been a number of changes
made to the way window focus works in the operating system as a whole.
apparently it is microsoft's view that there are applications that are built
to take too much focus priority away from other applications (things like
instant message apps, for example), but i digress.

i suspect the problem being encountered is a symptom of this.

i would like to make it very clear that there is no *guaranteed* way of
reliably bringing focus to a child window.  you can achieve about 95%
reliability, but it's hit and miss above that.

some slight modifications to your popUp() function might be in order too.
first of all, it's good practice to test for support of a method before
using it.  since the focus() method is supported by the window object since
js1.1, that means that js1.0 browsers (few as they may be is not an excuse)
will not recognize the method and throw an error.

second, when opening the window you should assign it to a variable so you
can do things with it later.  the way you've got it now, you're opening a
new window, then executing the next line which gives focus back to the
calling window -- not the desired effect and probably contributing to your
reliability issues.

i would change the function to something like this:

var popUpWin = null;

function popUp(theURL,winName,features)
{
  popUpWin = window.open(theURL,winName,features);
  if(popUpWin.focus) popUpWin.focus();
}

now, you've got a choice to make.  you can either make an effort to include
an onLoad event handler in every page that will open in the popup with a bit
of script to focus the popup or you can use the focus() method mentioned
above.  if you use both in ie you will sporadically generate errors.  my
preference, for maintenance reasons would be to not use the onLoad event
handler within every document that will be opened in the popup in favor of
using the method in your popUp() function.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: the suggested format is better because the link
: will work even if javascript is turned off
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

or heck, you could go a step further to improve maintainability:

<a href="mypage.htm"
   target="PopUpWindow"
   onClick="popUp(this.href, this.target, 'width=520,height=640');
            return false;"
>link</a>

in this use, the "this" keyword refers to the tag that contains the event
handler.  using it like this you can access the attributes of the tag as
properties of the "this" keyword.

this.href is the same as manually typing 'mypage.htm' as the first argument
to pass to the popUp() function.  this.target is the same as manually typing
'PopUpWindow' as the second argument to pass to the popUp() function.

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From dwayne at iconys.com  Fri Jun 15 19:21:49 2001
From: dwayne at iconys.com (dwayne)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:21:49 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for repost
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64C8@mailhost.summithq.com>
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64C8@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <01061518220008.01504@dante.telusplanet.net>

oops - i didn't read that closely enough. you have the popUp() function in 
the parent page calling focus() on itself. and rudy's right, 
<BODY onLoad="self.focus">
needs the () after it.

for what it's worth, this is the code i've been using, all in the page 
calling the popup:

<script language="JavaScript1.1">

<!--
// AOL detect
// some AOL browsers have trouble with pop up windows
var aol = false;
if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("AOL") != -1) {
        aol = true;
}

var pop_win;
function popIt() {
    if (!aol) {
        pop_win=window.open('/page.html',
        'display',
        'scrollbars,width=400,height=450');
                if (!pop_win.opener) {
                        pop_win.opener=window;
                }
                setTimeout('pop_win.focus()', 500);
        } else {
                top.location='page_low.html';
        }

}
//-->
</script>

and triggering it with:
<a href="/page.html" onclick="popIt(); return false;">

not sure if it's the best way, but it should get you going tonight.


- dwayne



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Fri Jun 15 19:24:29 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:24:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for re
	post
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64CB@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya dwayne!

this is a beautiful thing -- thank you!<Grin>

does your "this" work also in Netscape 6 and NEtscape 4.76? if so, then i'm
golden!

many, many thanks,

fortune


-----Original Message-----
From: dwayne [mailto:dwayne at iconys.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:22 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for
repost


oops - i didn't read that closely enough. you have the popUp() function in 
the parent page calling focus() on itself. and rudy's right, 
<BODY onLoad="self.focus">
needs the () after it.

for what it's worth, this is the code i've been using, all in the page 
calling the popup:

<script language="JavaScript1.1">

<!--
// AOL detect
// some AOL browsers have trouble with pop up windows
var aol = false;
if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("AOL") != -1) {
        aol = true;
}

var pop_win;
function popIt() {
    if (!aol) {
        pop_win=window.open('/page.html',
        'display',
        'scrollbars,width=400,height=450');
                if (!pop_win.opener) {
                        pop_win.opener=window;
                }
                setTimeout('pop_win.focus()', 500);
        } else {
                top.location='page_low.html';
        }

}
//-->
</script>

and triggering it with:
<a href="/page.html" onclick="popIt(); return false;">

not sure if it's the best way, but it should get you going tonight.


- dwayne

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From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Fri Jun 15 19:41:00 2001
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:41:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] thanks to you all! (WAS: not sure if this went thro
	ugh -- if so sorry for repost)
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64CD@mailhost.summithq.com>

hiya all!

yes, i'm getting great, reliable popups now! you're just the best! thanks so
much! lifesavers, that's what you all are!

have a great weekend,

fortune

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own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.




From dwayne at iconys.com  Fri Jun 15 19:52:50 2001
From: dwayne at iconys.com (dwayne)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:52:50 2001
Subject: [thelist] not sure if this went through -- if so sorry for re post
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64CB@mailhost.summithq.com>
References: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F5039B64CB@mailhost.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <0106151853000A.01504@dante.telusplanet.net>

On Saturday 16 June 2001 00:21, Fortune Elkins wrote:
> hiya dwayne!
>
> this is a beautiful thing -- thank you!<Grin>

no problem..

> does your "this" work also in Netscape 6 and NEtscape 4.76? if so, then i'm
> golden!

that would be jeff's 'this', but it will. it's handy.

jeff's the man when it comes to javascript. i'd take his over mine any day. 
the code bits he posted are more easily maintained than what i posted. that 
was just a snippet i had in a handy page. you'll want to salt to taste.

- dwayne



From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Fri Jun 15 19:53:05 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Fri Jun 15 19:53:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
Message-ID: <v02140b22b7505945febb@[10.112.254.230]>

At 1:35 AM 6/14/1, Jelle Desramaults wrote:
> What i can't seem to figure out is what the difference
> between SVG and flash/livemotion is.

SVG is a file format, like SWF, while Macromedia Flash and Adobe's
LiveMotion are both applications which produce SWF files. (Neither
application produces SVG files.)

The main SVG page is here:
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/


At 1:44 AM 6/15/1, Eric Cestari wrote:
> SVG and Flash have the same goals, being  the vector
> graphic standard.

mmm, I'm not so sure... SWF files have used vector graphics over the past
five years or so, true, but the real focus is on widespread display of
predictable interfaces. The embedded interactivity engine and 200K
footprint are probably more important than the vectors by this point.

(SVG's main "goal" would likely be to become a 1.0 recommendation, and then
to have a variety of proprietary renderers in realworld distribution so
such files could be viewed. I can't speak for others, though, and so would
defer to the link above.)


> SVG is an XML application whereas Flash is in proprietary format
> (though the API is available freely).

Small point here... the Macromedia Flash Player has an API, where browsers
or applications can pause, play, zoom and send messages to a SWF.

That's distinct from the SWF file format being publicly documented... I've
lost count at about 50 applications writing SWF via these specs:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/

(The distinction here is between the API to an application, and the
specification of a file format. I understand the phrase "xml application"
as a distinct meaning... gosh, this gets confusing. ;-)

Both the SVG and SWF file formats are publicly documented, although one is
designed by committee and the other designed by a single company. Both file
formats rely on a range of proprietary renderers to display such content.

If you're interested in free serverside generation of SWF files, then
people do offer various implementations:
http://www.swift-tools.com/
http://www.flashgap.com/
http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.swf.php



At 8:50 AM 6/15/1, Denis, David wrote:
> Experiment builds of Mozilla have SVG support rolled in.
> Eventually SVG support should come as part of the
> browser, being just another way to handle XML.

Actually, here's the source page, where you can judge for yourself:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/

(I'm not sure whether that date is August 12 or December 8, but either way,
there doesn't seem to ahve been much action there recently.)

I do not know of Microsoft's plans, but I do know that most of their
distributions include the tiny SWF renderer already, and I haven't heard of
them making their own SVG renderer, or using Adobe's SVG renderer, or
bundling someone else's SVG renderer. (Microsoft's VML language is being
used in some of its applications today.)


I personally think that SVG is a very reasonable file format, and could be
a useful file format, particularly for data exchange among graphics
applications. For distributed viewing, however, the big problem is
distributing the viewers, and the order-of-magnitude size differences
between renderers seem to make this a foregone conclusion...?

jd





John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From Manaze8m at ev1.net  Fri Jun 15 20:02:40 2001
From: Manaze8m at ev1.net (Todd)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:02:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615133021.009fbec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005401c0f611$bbf47150$23c128d8@manaze>

This could be done in php using the fread() function, it accepts a file
pointer as an argument as well as the number of bytes you want to read.
This, with the filesize() function which could tell you how big the files
is. Create a function that will divide the file size by 5.  the fread() can
read chunks data in $X bytes.



---------------------------------------------------------
Todd Manaze
www.manaze.8m.com
[Design | Hosting | Flash | Branding | Illustration]
www.brewermc.com
Web solutions for small business
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Meyer" <john_meyer at geocities.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 1:31 PM
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting


> Hi, I have gone to several sites where the article is split over several
> different pages.  Does anybody have an idea/tutorial/faq about how this is
> done (generally) and how it can be done specifically in PHP?  Thanks.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From Manaze8m at ev1.net  Fri Jun 15 20:03:10 2001
From: Manaze8m at ev1.net (Todd)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:03:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615133021.009fbec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005501c0f611$bcad6110$23c128d8@manaze>

This could be done in php using the fread() function, it accepts a file
pointer as an argument as well as the number of bytes you want to read.
This, with the filesize() function which could tell you how big the files
is. Create a function that will divide the file size by 5.  the fread() can
read chunks data in $X bytes.



---------------------------------------------------------
Todd Manaze
www.manaze.8m.com
[Design | Hosting | Flash | Branding | Illustration]
www.brewermc.com
Web solutions for small business


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Meyer" <john_meyer at geocities.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 1:31 PM
Subject: [thelist] PHP and article splitting


> Hi, I have gone to several sites where the article is split over several
> different pages.  Does anybody have an idea/tutorial/faq about how this is
> done (generally) and how it can be done specifically in PHP?  Thanks.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !






From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Fri Jun 15 20:03:51 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:03:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
In-Reply-To: <v02140b22b7505945febb@[10.112.254.230]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615205459.01aa84d0@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 05:53 PM 6/15/01 -0700, John Dowdell bequeathed such 
tales as these:
>At 1:35 AM 6/14/1, Jelle Desramaults wrote:
> > What i can't seem to figure out is what the difference
> > between SVG and flash/livemotion is.
>
>SVG is a file format, like SWF, while Macromedia Flash and Adobe's
>LiveMotion are both applications which produce SWF files. (Neither
>application produces SVG files.)
>
>The main SVG page is here:
>http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/
>
John, thank you for the plethora of great information about SVG but isn't 
SVG just a new incarnation of VRML.  If not then a buddy at Platinum owes 
me a beer ;-)
Peter Kaulback - it's too hot for graphics work in southern ontario




From jdowdell at macromedia.com  Fri Jun 15 20:14:56 2001
From: jdowdell at macromedia.com (John Dowdell)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:14:56 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
Message-ID: <v02140b26b75062080de3@[10.112.254.230]>

At 5:57 PM 6/15/1, Peter Kaulback wrote:
> isn't SVG just a new incarnation of VRML.  If not then a buddy
> at Platinum owes me a beer ;-)

Oh, man, it's after 6pm on a Friday night, and it's over 80 degrees
outside, and the Giants game starts in an hour, and I don't know if I'll be
able to get my accordion practice in this evening 'cause I'm still at the
office answering email, and meanwhile Peter will be outside drinking a cold
beer paid for by his errant buddy over there.... ;-)


You're right, SVG and VRML are very different file formats. VRML97 is an
actual designated "Standard", being approved as such by the ISO awhile
back. When SVG 1.0 eventually gets through the W3C approval process (it has
been stalled for awhile now), then it will become a "Recommendation",
similar to PNG... an actual de-jure standard is a few steps beyond that,
and becoming a de-facto standard is a different task entirely.

But you're right, although 2D vector graphics are sometimes referred to as
"a degenerate case of 3D graphics", SVG and VRML are very different file
formats, with different potential uses. Enjoy your beer there for me,
okay...?  ;-)

jd




John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US
Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/
Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your
email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are
available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/





From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Fri Jun 15 20:23:46 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:23:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] SVG -  who ? what  ?
In-Reply-To: <v02140b26b75062080de3@[10.112.254.230]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010615211424.00a38d30@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 06:15 PM 6/15/01 -0700, John Dowdell bequeathed such 
tales as these:
>At 5:57 PM 6/15/1, Peter Kaulback wrote:
> > isn't SVG just a new incarnation of VRML.  If not then a buddy
> > at Platinum owes me a beer ;-)
>
>Oh, man, it's after 6pm on a Friday night, and it's over 80 degrees
>outside, and the Giants game starts in an hour, and I don't know if I'll be
>able to get my accordion practice in this evening 'cause I'm still at the
>office answering email, and meanwhile Peter will be outside drinking a cold
>beer paid for by his errant buddy over there.... ;-)
>
>
>You're right, SVG and VRML are very different file formats. VRML97 is an
>actual designated "Standard", being approved as such by the ISO awhile
>back. When SVG 1.0 eventually gets through the W3C approval process (it has
>been stalled for awhile now), then it will become a "Recommendation",
>similar to PNG... an actual de-jure standard is a few steps beyond that,
>and becoming a de-facto standard is a different task entirely.
>
>But you're right, although 2D vector graphics are sometimes referred to as
>"a degenerate case of 3D graphics", SVG and VRML are very different file
>formats, with different potential uses. Enjoy your beer there for me,
>okay...?  ;-)
>
>jd

Thanks for the reply but my beer is being kept at the boiling point because 
of the 138 degree oven beside keeping me all toasty and light 
headed.  Every time I try to work on a graphic it overheats and 
hangs.  Life is beautiful.
Peter Kaulback




From gozz at gozz.com  Fri Jun 15 20:31:37 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:31:37 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: dumb idea
In-Reply-To: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D281D55AB@flash>
References: <50A821699F5FCB4585601CDD0EC89D281D55AB@flash>
Message-ID: <p04310104b7505d1fe2cc@[192.168.1.100]>

>But I still cling to my belief that I'd like to actually SEE the software,
>USE the software, and then FORM my opinion.
>
>Not the reverse order.

This makes sense, but it seems that everyone who has ever breathed an 
opinion has one about Smart Tags, almost all negative, and if the 
speculation that Microsoft will be inserting their preferred links is 
incorrect, you'd think they would have issued a statement to clarify 
things.

This is a great and humorous article - also brings up the question of 
how different is the concept of Smart Tags from that of Netscape's 
"What's Related ..." feature:
http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/166676.html
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From darrenn at qldstate.com.au  Fri Jun 15 20:43:43 2001
From: darrenn at qldstate.com.au (Darren Neimke)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:43:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] ASP error handling - was TIP
Message-ID: <13FACCC42EB7754AA39E16228480C60702607B@brismail.qldstate.com.au>

Minh Lee Goon said...

	> The other tool is (surprise) the errors collection.
Response.Write Errors.Num 
	> and Errors.Description to the page and give yourself some
useful clues.

There's not actually an Errors collection in VBScript (which is what I
presume you were using.  You need to interrogate the properties of the
Err 'Object' to get information regarding Errors that have occurred in
your scripts.  Here's a sample script which uses On Error Resume Next
and then if a 'Division by zero' occurs the ErrorHandler sub handles it
and passes back a *friendly* error to the user and continues processing.
If any other error is found then processing is halted:


<%
On Error Resume Next

sub DisplayErrorMessage()
' Error handler.
    With Response
        .Write "You recieved error number: " & Err.Number & "<br />" &
vbCrLf
        .Write "Which means: " & Err.Description & "<br />" & vbCrLf
        
            If Err.Number = 11 Then 
                Err.Clear
                Exit Sub
            Else
                .End
            End If
    End With
end sub

dim intI
' ##### Error occurs here
intI = Cint(7/0)

If Err.number <> 0 Then
    DisplayErrorMessage()
Else
    Response.Write "The value is: " & intI
End If

Response.Write "Error number is now: " & Err.Number & "."
%>


I do have a more elaborate Error handler located here:

 
http://flws.com.au/showusyourcode/codeLib/code/errHandler.asp?catID=1

But I'm not terribly sure that, that page is viewable in Netscape -
never tested it (oooops), but I'm about to start making the site
cross-browser (promise).


Cheers,
Darren



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Fri Jun 15 20:51:48 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Fri Jun 15 20:51:48 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refresh Brain Teaser....
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010615175629.02e6f700@baratta.com>

I've been beating on this problem for most of the day with no success. For 
most of my solutions Netscape works, but IE does not.

I have a popup window that is set to refresh every 5 minutes. I need the 
page not be refreshed from the cache, ever.

[meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="600; 
URL=http://www.foo.com/dir/popupnews.html"]

Try #1

I added expire tags to the top and bottom of the code.

     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache"]
     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Tue, 04 Dec 1993 21:29:02 GMT"]
     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="-1"]

This works great with Netscape. IE pulls from cache.

Try #2

I wrote a javascript that creates a random URI Tag and appends that to the 
Refresh Meta Tag.

document.writeln("<meta http-equiv=\"Refresh\" content=\"15; 
URL=http://www.foo.com/dir/popupnews.html?RAN="+Math.round(Math.random()*10000)+"\">")

This appears to only work once (the first refresh) with Netscape. And IE 
still pulls from cache.

Try #3

Screaming, yelling and threatening bodily harm to both browsers. Neither 
cowered in fear. sigh.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

Blatant Plug: Cool Jazz for a hot summer,
     http://LisaMarie.Baratta.com




From headlemur at qwest.net  Fri Jun 15 21:28:59 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Fri Jun 15 21:28:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string
Message-ID: <03f701c0f60b$89507b00$0b646464@qwest.net>

I am looking for the browser ID string for IE 6 for a javascript redirect.



Stolen from http://www.scottandrew.com

He is a Netscape guy and one hell of a coder in anybodys ballpark.

this function kills all IE versions. I would like to just exclude IE6


if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("MSIE") > -1) {
  location.replace("get_lost.html");
} 

I will be using it for this;
http://www.lemurzone.com/ie6.htm

Yes I know all the reasons not to do this, but I am drawing the line here.

tip forthcoming

the head lemur
Web Standards
http://www.webstandards.org
Evolt.org
http://www.evolt.org
Lemurzone
http://www.lemurzone.com









From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Fri Jun 15 22:18:13 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Fri Jun 15 22:18:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refresh Brain Teaser....
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010615175629.02e6f700@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010615221603.02ff9af0@redhotsweeps.com>

Unless I am mistaken, you have to put the cache header at the bottom of the 
pages for IE to work all the time.  Right above the close body tag.  Don't 
remember where I read it at.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Chris

At 08:49 PM 6/15/2001, you wrote:
>I've been beating on this problem for most of the day with no success. For 
>most of my solutions Netscape works, but IE does not.




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sat Jun 16 00:18:40 2001
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sat Jun 16 00:18:40 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refresh Brain Teaser....
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010615221603.02ff9af0@redhotsweeps.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010615175629.02e6f700@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010615220555.02e719c0@baratta.com>

At 08:17 PM 6/15/2001, you wrote:
>Unless I am mistaken, you have to put the cache header at the bottom of 
>the pages for IE to work all the time.  Right above the close body 
>tag.  Don't remember where I read it at.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.

That was probably an email from me. ;-) I did do that, didn't work.

I fixed it, but not with Javascript. I ended up using a Perl script to 
build my page - but the fix was not Perl specific. I went to Perl so I 
could control the headers directly, without having to use HTTP-EQUIV Meta 
tags. But that was not the solution either. (I even trying using the 
Cache-Control header directives. No go.)

The browser was caching the "link to the Javascript source file", which 
contained the text on the page.

e.g. Here's a simplified version of the html file:

[html]
[head]
         [title]TF.N Popup Headlines/Newsfeed[/title]
     [meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="600; 
URL=http://www.foo.org/dir/popupnews.cgi"]
     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache"]
     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Tue, 04 Dec 1993 21:29:02 GMT"]
[/head]

[body onLoad="self.focus();" bgcolor="white"]
   [div align="center"]
   [SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript" 
SRC="http://www.foo.org/dir/headlines.js"][/SCRIPT]
   [/div]
[/body]
[SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript"]self.focus();[/SCRIPT]
[head]
     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache"]
     [META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Tue, 04 Dec 1993 21:29:02 GMT"]
[/head]
[/html]

In order to force BOTH Netscape and IE to not cache the page and the items 
on the page, I generated a random number and appended it to the meta 
refresh AND the javascript source link.

e.g.

...

     [meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="600; 
URL=http://www.foo.org/dir/popupnews.cgi?RAN=$varURI"]

...

   [SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Javascript" 
SRC="http://www.foo.org/dir/headlines.js?RAN=$varURI"][/SCRIPT]

...

So each time the script is called a new RAN is created and appended to the 
"links". This appears to fool the browsers (mostly IE) into thinking its 
requesting new content. Even though the expires tags should be telling the 
browsers not to cache ANY of the content on the page. sheesh.

I could probably roll this into a javascript only solution, but I didn't 
want to take any more time on this and just left it as a perl script.

What a broken pile of crap. I should send Redmond a bill for my lost time.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

Blatant Plug: Cool Jazz for a hot summer,
     http://LisaMarie.Baratta.com




From leaevolt at viking.org.au  Sat Jun 16 03:54:31 2001
From: leaevolt at viking.org.au (Lea)
Date: Sat Jun 16 03:54:31 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: dumb idea
In-Reply-To: <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>
References: <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>
Message-ID: <51155683360.20010616182109@viking.org.au>

Saturday, June 16, 2001, 7:58:29 AM, Larry Groebe wrote:
> So I've created a button in the style of those "Best Viewed With..." buttons
> that you can add to your site if you wish. You can find it (along with some
> explanation to point your readers to) at:

> http://www.genericradio.com/smarttags

Ummm... unfortunately, that won't be entirely true.
If the user has set Smart Tags to Always Be On, then they will see
smart tags on your site anyway, even if you include the Meta tag to
disable them.

How about a button that actually says "Best Viewed without SmartTags"?
<g>

Lea
-- 
Lea Levy
Information Architect
Elysian Systems ~~ "Web Consulting, Development, Review"
http://www.elysiansystems.com

*Error! paradigm shift without engaging clutch!*
-- Phillip Renouf, UserFriendly Mailing List





From bella2k2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 16 04:18:16 2001
From: bella2k2000 at yahoo.com (bella r)
Date: Sat Jun 16 04:18:16 2001
Subject: [thelist] help please: on click of a flash button invoking a dos application
In-Reply-To: <51155683360.20010616182109@viking.org.au>
Message-ID: <20010616091544.17133.qmail@web10903.mail.yahoo.com>

hai hello
I am need  a small help. I have created a flash
application. i am unable link my flash button to a
application in turbo c ( dos application). or if
possible how to invoke a hyperlink in html to a dos
based application.
                                         bella

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/



From bella2k2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 16 04:19:46 2001
From: bella2k2000 at yahoo.com (bella r)
Date: Sat Jun 16 04:19:46 2001
Subject: [thelist] help please: on click of a flash button invoking a dos application
In-Reply-To: <F120JSFsxf4yp8ARf3s0000bf11@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010616091716.15898.qmail@web10907.mail.yahoo.com>

hai hello
I am need  a small help. I have created a flash
application. i am unable link my flash button to a
application in turbo c ( dos application). or if
possible how to invoke a hyperlink in html to a dos
based application.
                                    bella


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/



From ctfuzzy at canopy.net  Sat Jun 16 06:34:33 2001
From: ctfuzzy at canopy.net (Captain F.M. O'Lary)
Date: Sat Jun 16 06:34:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: Viewer liability?
In-Reply-To: <51155683360.20010616182109@viking.org.au>
References: <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>
 <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010616072516.00bbba30@canopy.net>

For starters, if there is anything I am not its a lawyer.

It occurs to me that if the browser ships with the 'smart links' off (what
a misnomer huh?) and the VIEWER makes the choice to turn them on  . . . 

who is *actually* modifying your content? The viewer who decided to modify
your content, or the Evil Bill? I'll just bet *his* legal department
already thought of that.

Just a thought.

May be that button should read: "If you have smart tags enabled while
visiting you could be subject to legal prosecution".

!! YIKES !!

The thought makes me visualize pictures of abject poverty and a global
kinda Armageddon thing.

Woa!
Fuzzy.
<now you see why>



At 04:51 AM 6/16/01 , you wrote:
>
>How about a button that actually says "Best Viewed without SmartTags"?
><g>
>
>Lea
______________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster at canopy.net
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal the neighbor's
newspaper, that's the time to do it.
------------------------------------------------------------------



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 16 06:49:18 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Jun 16 06:49:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string
Message-ID: <LAW2-F146aYY61LEdyt00007b5d@hotmail.com>

>I am looking for the browser ID string for IE 6 for a javascript redirect.

var nav = navigator.userAgent;
var ind = nav.indexOf('MSIE');
if (ind > 0)
{
  var ver = nav.charAt(ind+5);
  if (ver > 5) location.replace('the_ie6_redirect.html');
}
// everything OK, proceed

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 16 07:33:33 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Jun 16 07:33:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] A pixel is not a pixel
Message-ID: <LAW2-F15SWoBDyseVwr000040db@hotmail.com>


I finally have the time to respond to this.

> >>Opera 5 for the Mac, which in fact renders pixel text on a Mac
> >>considerably smaller than pixel text on a Windows machine.
> >
> >In my opinion this is still a bug, regardless of the newest pixel theory.
>
>I think it's been one of those parts of the standard that wasn't looked at 
>very closely until Opera implemented it, and now we see it we're a little 
>unnerved by it.

No, I think nearly everyone will ignore it and say "Opera Mac shows text too 
small". The alternatives are to show your text too large in all other 
browsers or to write a special style sheet for OpMac (yuck!).

The problem is that one little lone browser cannot win by saying "I follow 
the specs and all you others don't!" In some cases (and this is one) the 
specs are just too complicated to follow and have no connection with the 
daily reality of web development.

For the web developer, the current browsers are the measure of all things, 
not the W3C specs. If the browsers happen to conform to the specs, good, if 
they don't, follow them, not the specs.

> >I look at it from the opposite point of view: all browsers show the 
>sametext size except for Op5Mac, ergo: Op5Mac does not conform to the 
>de-facto standard.
>
>That dog won't hunt. No standards-compliant browser conforms to the de 
>facto standard.

But there are no pure standards-compliant browsers. I've had this discussion 
more than once and my mind is set: there is a de-facto standard, set by the 
actual browsers now in use, and any browser not conforming to it will have 
trouble. That the de-facto standard differs from the W3C standard is 
irrelevant, it's the standard everyone uses when developing web sites.

Of course, if all browsers choose to go over to the real W3C standards in 
every particular, the de-facto standard will change. If that is the case, 
we'll all have to change our CSS tricks with it. But I won't do it before 
this actually happens.

>Type specified at 10px, according to the CSS standard, should render at the 
>exact same visible height, regardless of the size and resolution of the 
>monitor.

Now this I don't believe. If you're right, we basically cannot choose a 
resolution for our monitors any more, because everything will show up the 
same size anyway, so it's useless. We're forced to abide by the resolution 
the monitor vendor has chosen for us.

> >If a pixel is defined as 1/90th of an inch and an inch contains either 72 
>or  96 pixels (depending on the OS), somewhere something must be terribly 
>wrong.
> >These two definitions simply don't go together, only one of them can be 
>true.
>
>Yes they can both be true, and yes, there *is* something wrong here. The 
>standard reference pixel is a hypothetical creation, defined to be 1/90th 
>of an inch. Windows reports its monitors to be 96ppi and MacOS reports its 
>monitors to be 72ppi, if the browser asks. The actual monitor attached to 
>the system will have real, not hypothetical pixels, with a density of still 
>another ppi, almost guaranteed *not* to be either 96ppi or 72ppi (though in 
>a happy accident for Windows users, they are usually closer to 96ppi than 
>72ppi; IIRC the current range goes something like 80-130ppi).

The main problem is that this is simply too complicated for most people 
(including myself).

In my mind, you're treating monitors as if they were print: you want to say 
exactly how large your font will show up, while the current trend is towards 
user choice (by adjusting monitor resolution, or, in some browsers, by 
adjusting the font size overruling the style sheet)

>What I'm trying to get clear here is that 1 CSS pixel is *not* 1 monitor 
>pixel.

Again, I think this is a regression towards print. Monitor pixels are the 
de-facto standard and more closely conform to the medium. In your scheme the 
user has no control whatsoever over his resolution.

>Monitors are not paper. We should stop trying to treat them like they are. 
>We're painting our creations on canvas borrowed from our audience. We're 
>taking pot luck, not dictating terms.

In my mind, you're treating monitors like paper right now. Paper has a fixed 
size, while monitor size can be adjusted. That's the main difference.

Anyway, this is complex, need to think about it more,

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From warozzo at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 16 07:35:09 2001
From: warozzo at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dewara=20Sianipar?=)
Date: Sat Jun 16 07:35:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weird IE behavior
In-Reply-To: <20010616004217.A691ED7F@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20010616123238.40898.qmail@web12508.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
This is my first post. First pardon my English, I'm
Indonesian.
I have a weird behavior in IE 5.5 Windows 98. If I
open two or more windows, when I switch to another
window sometimes I can't open the File menu bar (and
other options of course). I can only open it if only I
switch to another window and back again.
Would you help me with this irritating behavior.

TIA

<tip author="Warozzo" type="PHP">
You'll find useful user comments, tips and tricks in
every page in the Online PHP Manual.
</tip>





From JenniferE at mif.com  Sat Jun 16 08:02:19 2001
From: JenniferE at mif.com (JenniferE at mif.com)
Date: Sat Jun 16 08:02:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Need web-based freight/shipping management software
Message-ID: <17AF8E1F556F39479F819840139BEAD3E5ABAB@mist.mifnet.local>

Just hire us instead. :)

But if you won't do that, contact a company called Viewlocity.  They have worked with some big logistics companies and may be able to help.  We met one of their reps, Michael Campbell (mcampbell at viewlocity.com).  

Viewlocity
3655 Justison Road
Coconut Grove, FL  33133
786.268.0986

Jennifer Eckstein - Quality & Training Manager
Miami International Forwarders (MIF)
Phone: (305) 594-0038 ext. 7448
Fax: (305) 593-0431
e-mail: jennifere at mif.com
web site: http://www.mif.com
"Dedicated to problem-free transportation"


-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Rubenzahl [mailto:moe at maxim-ic.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:46 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Need web-based freight/shipping management software


Looking for web-based software a company can use to manage its
freight needs. Examples: An employee in the Paramus office initiates
a shipping order which is then electronically transmitted to freight
companies for bid; then the bid is selected and the shipping is
arranged. The system tracks and consolidates payments, etc.

Anyone know about this?

---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk  Sat Jun 16 09:14:14 2001
From: ppxsjc1 at unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (Simon Coggins)
Date: Sat Jun 16 09:14:14 2001
Subject: [thelist] Bizarre problem with the directory in Opera 5
In-Reply-To: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

Hi Everyone,

I've just come across a rather odd problem with the evolt directory 
<http://dir.evolt.org/> in Opera and I was wondering if anyone had any
idea what could be wrong.

To see the problem do the following:

1. Surf to dir.evolt.org using Opera 5
2. Type php in the search box and press go. You should get the search
results screen.
3. Now try returning to the top level, by clicking on Top in the
breadcrumbs trail or go via a category or the about page.

When I do the steps listed above I get the search results page rather than
the top level of the directory. Closing the browser and restarting solves
the problem.

My best guess is that it has something to do with Opera's caching of the
page combined with the way it handles the POST data from the
search. Anyone ever come across anything like this?

Simon







From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 16 09:46:00 2001
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Sat Jun 16 09:46:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weird IE behavior
Message-ID: <LAW2-F39FzUf8PYqK870000a72f@hotmail.com>



>This is my first post. First pardon my English, I'm
>Indonesian.
>I have a weird behavior in IE 5.5 Windows 98. If I
>open two or more windows, when I switch to another
>window sometimes I can't open the File menu bar (and
>other options of course). I can only open it if only I
>switch to another window and back again.
>Would you help me with this irritating behavior.

Sounds like a bug. Do you have a page we can view where this happens? (URL 
please, no attachments).

ppk

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From nic at theforce.net  Sat Jun 16 10:13:01 2001
From: nic at theforce.net (TFN Nic)
Date: Sat Jun 16 10:13:01 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla frustration
Message-ID: <005501c0f676$cd280620$0100a8c0@mshome.net>

Ever since I installed Mozilla, it has taken over as the default browser on
my system. I'm not sure whether I told it NOT to do that or if I forgot, so
I won't blame the software (yet) for this annoyance.

However I no longer remember how to set it back to IE.
IE is set up to check whether it's the default browser, but obviously it's
not doing that. (so here's an IE frustration too)

Help???

Nicole





From seyon at delime.com  Sat Jun 16 10:21:41 2001
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Sat Jun 16 10:21:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weird IE behavior
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F39FzUf8PYqK870000a72f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010616111704.00a43a70@mail.uno.co.tt>

At 6/16/2001 02:31 PM, you wrote:

>>This is my first post. First pardon my English, I'm
>>Indonesian.
>>I have a weird behavior in IE 5.5 Windows 98. If I
>>open two or more windows, when I switch to another
>>window sometimes I can't open the File menu bar (and
>>other options of course). I can only open it if only I
>>switch to another window and back again.
>>Would you help me with this irritating behavior.
>
>Sounds like a bug. Do you have a page we can view where this happens? (URL 
>please, no attachments).

I think it is a bug, but it's not site specific. I've encountered a similar 
problem. Sometimes, with multiple windows open, I can't bookmark a page - 
the menu just won't come up - unless I switch back and forth between 
windows then try it again.

Win 2k, IE 5.01 incidentally.

-m



From ahpook at olografix.org  Sat Jun 16 10:34:06 2001
From: ahpook at olografix.org (ah : pook)
Date: Sat Jun 16 10:34:06 2001
Subject: [thelist] printed publicity for websites
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottin
 gham.ac.uk>
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616164948.00a40180@mail.olografix.org>

	hi. i am a lurker from italy. since, in
the last year, i have noticed a great development
in print ads and other 'traditional' ways to
promote web sites i was curious to know the state
of this phenomenon in the rest of the world

	i refer to both common commercial
advertising campaign with posters or tv/radio
spots and indipendent low-budget adhesives or
photocopied flyers/a4 announces

	are they a consolidated reality where you
do live? which is the average target (newbies or
www accustomed)? which sites produce such
campaigns? and *which is the tone*?

thanks for yr attention

ciau
ah pook





From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sat Jun 16 10:36:51 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sat Jun 16 10:36:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: Viewer liability?
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010616072516.00bbba30@canopy.net>
References: <51155683360.20010616182109@viking.org.au>
 <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>
 <B74FF63C.3488%lgroebe@insidermarketing.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616103145.03028b58@redhotsweeps.com>

At 06:31 AM 6/16/2001, you wrote:
>For starters, if there is anything I am not its a lawyer.

Ditto


>It occurs to me that if the browser ships with the 'smart links' off (what
>a misnomer huh?) and the VIEWER makes the choice to turn them on  . . .

Good point.  BUT.....that tag only has one function.  That is to put smart 
tags on pages.  That would make MS liable in a sense wouldn't it?

Chris





From joxn at vernum.com  Sat Jun 16 10:58:51 2001
From: joxn at vernum.com (Joxn)
Date: Sat Jun 16 10:58:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla frustration
References: <005501c0f676$cd280620$0100a8c0@mshome.net>
Message-ID: <3B2B81EF.7010605@vernum.com>

TFN Nic wrote:

> Ever since I installed Mozilla, it has taken over as the default browser on
> my system.


In Mozilla under Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> System you can 
select which file types should be associated with Mozilla.

I don't know if this is the solution to your problem, though.

bye Joxn
-- 
    || //\\ \\// |\\||  ::  joxn at vernum.com  ::
  \\|| \\// //\\ ||\\|  ::      8053703      ::




From martin at takingitglobal.org  Sat Jun 16 11:02:47 2001
From: martin at takingitglobal.org (Martin Kuplens-Ewart)
Date: Sat Jun 16 11:02:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Smart Tags: Viewer liability?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616103145.03028b58@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <000001c0f67d$2de1c6d0$320a9ad8@MartinLaptop>

>>It occurs to me that if the browser ships with the 'smart links' off 
>>(what a misnomer huh?) and the VIEWER makes the choice to turn them on

>>. . .

>Good point.  BUT.....that tag only has one function.  That is to put
smart 
>tags on pages.  That would make MS liable in a sense wouldn't it?

Photocopiers also have one function: to reproduce documents...

...the copier manufacturers aren't liable for copyright infringement on
the part of the end-user...

...so extrapolating from that, Microsoft would not be liable, as they
provided a tool that when used within a site that allows the smart tags
to be placed, "enhances the user experience"; and is initially
disengaged.

Dem lawyers sure r smart puppies. :P

-m


---------------------------------------
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Jun 16 11:18:32 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Jun 16 11:18:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla frustration
Message-ID: <01c0f67f$a2591340$7b4a149a@rudy>

in internet explorer

   tools > internet options > programs > check the box

http://rudy.ca/




From nicole at parrot.ca  Sat Jun 16 11:22:27 2001
From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot)
Date: Sat Jun 16 11:22:27 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla frustration
References: <01c0f67f$a2591340$7b4a149a@rudy>
Message-ID: <00bb01c0f680$818e3040$0100a8c0@mshome.net>

From: "rudy" <r937 at interlog.com>
> in internet explorer
>    tools > internet options > programs > check the box

That's already checked, but it's not working. Hence my frustration





From nicole at parrot.ca  Sat Jun 16 11:28:42 2001
From: nicole at parrot.ca (Nicole Parrot)
Date: Sat Jun 16 11:28:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla frustration
References: <005501c0f676$cd280620$0100a8c0@mshome.net> <3B2B81EF.7010605@vernum.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c0f681$60249c40$0100a8c0@mshome.net>

From: "Joxn" <joxn at vernum.com>
> In Mozilla under Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> System you can
> select which file types should be associated with Mozilla.
> I don't know if this is the solution to your problem, though.

yeah! That worked! Thank you!!
(note: the last step wasn't called "system" in my version, but that's ok, it
worked nonetheless... )

Nicole






From r937 at interlog.com  Sat Jun 16 11:29:17 2001
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sat Jun 16 11:29:17 2001
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla frustration
Message-ID: <01c0f681$1df9d420$7b4a149a@rudy>

>That's already checked, but it's not working. Hence my frustration

try rebooting?  or at least relaunching ie?

otherwise, i be flummoxed

rude




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Sat Jun 16 11:50:42 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Sat Jun 16 11:50:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Weird IE behavior
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20010616111704.00a43a70@mail.uno.co.tt>
References: <LAW2-F39FzUf8PYqK870000a72f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010616124213.020bb2c0@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 11:18 AM 6/16/01 -0400, Marc Seyon bequeathed such tales 
as these:
>At 6/16/2001 02:31 PM, you wrote:
>
>>>This is my first post. First pardon my English, I'm
>>>Indonesian.
>>>I have a weird behavior in IE 5.5 Windows 98. If I
>>>open two or more windows, when I switch to another
>>>window sometimes I can't open the File menu bar (and
>>>other options of course). I can only open it if only I
>>>switch to another window and back again.
>>>Would you help me with this irritating behavior.
>>
>>Sounds like a bug. Do you have a page we can view where this happens? 
>>(URL please, no attachments).
>
>I think it is a bug, but it's not site specific. I've encountered a 
>similar problem. Sometimes, with multiple windows open, I can't bookmark a 
>page - the menu just won't come up - unless I switch back and forth 
>between windows then try it again.
>
>Win 2k, IE 5.01 incidentally.

I get this occasionally on IE 5.5, win98 and I have to run the IE repair 
utility 1 or 2 times consecutively to fix it.
Peter Kaulback




From ctfuzzy at canopy.net  Sat Jun 16 12:07:32 2001
From: ctfuzzy at canopy.net (Captain F.M. O'Lary)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:07:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] printed publicity for websites
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616164948.00a40180@mail.olografix.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottin gham.ac.uk>
 <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010616125708.00bbd8c0@canopy.net>

I can offer some input, hopefully others can add more.

I approach my clients in a way that they understand they must incorporate
promotion of their web site right into their existing (traditional)
advertising. The URL goes on ~everything~ that gets
printed/copied/mailed/video taped etc.

We all know that just *being* on the web is not much different that ~not~
being on the web for all practical purposes. Traditional media is still (or
currently?) the best way to get your URL in front of people.

Strictly my opinion. Speaking from the "North Florida, USA" demographic area.
HTH,
Fuzzy.





At 11:31 AM 6/16/01 , you wrote:
>
>	hi. i am a lurker from italy. since, in
>the last year, i have noticed a great development
>in print ads and other 'traditional' ways to
>promote web sites i was curious to know the state
>of this phenomenon in the rest of the world
>
>	i refer to both common commercial
>advertising campaign with posters or tv/radio
>spots and indipendent low-budget adhesives or
>photocopied flyers/a4 announces
>
>	are they a consolidated reality where you
>do live? which is the average target (newbies or
>www accustomed)? which sites produce such
>campaigns? and *which is the tone*?
>
>thanks for yr attention
>
>ciau
>ah pook
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

______________________________________________________________
Captain F.M. O'Lary
webmaster at canopy.net
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal the neighbor's
newspaper, that's the time to do it.
------------------------------------------------------------------



From roselli at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 16 12:08:47 2001
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:08:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] printed publicity for websites
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616164948.00a40180@mail.olografix.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottin gham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B2B59C3.11259.256D0A8@localhost>

> From: "ah : pook" <ahpook at olografix.org>
[...]
>  i refer to both common commercial
> advertising campaign with posters or tv/radio
> spots and indipendent low-budget adhesives or
> photocopied flyers/a4 announces
> 
>  are they a consolidated reality where you
> do live? which is the average target (newbies or
> www accustomed)? which sites produce such
> campaigns? and *which is the tone*?

yes, i have seen those campaigns... i've seen traditional marketing 
campaigns (print, ads, billboards, tv, radio, etc.) and i have seen 
guerrilla campaigns (stickers, flyers, handbills, etc.)...

the type of campaign, as well as the tone, is always determined by 
the site... a place in toronto advertises on the radio almost 
exclusively because they know the demographics of the audience 
for the radio station and their site, and they mesh perfectly...

some places use their regular ads to support their web presence, 
primarily because it's always worked for them...

the guerrilla ones are interesting because they target the sub-
cultures... a saw a local punk-zine start up by advertising their 
presence on lamp posts and bike racks all over town, then some 
stickers appeared on buildings, cars, etc... and then handbills at 
local shows...

overall, tailor your advertising campaign to your audience, just as 
you would do for your site design...




From skaiser at skdesigns.com  Sat Jun 16 12:11:02 2001
From: skaiser at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:11:02 2001
Subject: [thelist] Bizarre problem with the directory in Opera 5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottin
 gham.ac.uk>
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010616100255.02f03b60@pop3.midtown.net>

At 07:11 AM 06/16/2001, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I've just come across a rather odd problem with the evolt directory
><http://dir.evolt.org/> in Opera and I was wondering if anyone had any
>idea what could be wrong.
>
>To see the problem do the following:
>
>1. Surf to dir.evolt.org using Opera 5
>2. Type php in the search box and press go. You should get the search
>results screen.
>3. Now try returning to the top level, by clicking on Top in the
>breadcrumbs trail or go via a category or the about page.
>
>When I do the steps listed above I get the search results page rather than
>the top level of the directory. Closing the browser and restarting solves
>the problem.
>
>My best guess is that it has something to do with Opera's caching of the
>page combined with the way it handles the POST data from the
>search. Anyone ever come across anything like this?
>
>Simon

Simon, that is very curious indeed. I tried it and had the same result. As 
you probably know, it works as you actually intend in IE5.5, going back to 
the top level of the directory.

I wonder about using an absolute URL rather than relative. Here's the code 
for that on the page:

<table width="100%" border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0><tbody><tr><td>
<a href="/index.php"><strong>Top</strong></a>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

I don't know much about PHP (yet! I'm just beginning) or why Opera is doing 
that, so that's just my 2 cents here. It would be interesting to know WHY 
that's happening, though.

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From afonso at writeme.com  Sat Jun 16 12:12:32 2001
From: afonso at writeme.com (Afonso Fernandez Nogueira)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:12:32 2001
Subject: [thelist] parsing numbers trap
References: <B74FACDF.5A53%jay@trans-city.com>
Message-ID: <006e01c0f687$2412bec0$27e6533e@homedomomento>

I guess this octal issue only applies when you use regular expressions?

And speaking of regex, the php manual says the following:

"split ()
<snip>
Note that if you don't require the power of regular expressions, it is
faster to use explode(), which doesn't incur the overhead of the regular
expression engine. "

So, making this extensible to all the code, we are adviced to find
alternatives to regex where possible. Following this philosophy,  in this
case one would use the following to get the values for day, month and year:

$data = "2001-06-16";

$dd = substr($data, 8, 2);    // day
$mm = substr($data, 5, 2); // month
$yy = substr($data, 0, 4); // year
-- OR --
$d = explode("-", $data); // We get an array where $d[0] is the year, $d[1]
the month, $d[2] the day.

Are regex an important performance hit or can we placidly let ourselves fall
into regex addiction?

> > <tip type="mySQL, PHP">
> > just reading about Netscape's blooper, here is something to be wary
about:
> >
> > Given a Date field from mySQL like "2001-08-04" for August 4th 2001,
> > I used the
> >
> > function longDate($d) {
> > eval(ereg_replace('(#+)-(#+)-(#+)',
> > '$d = mktime(0,0,0,\\2,\\3,\\1);', $d));
> > return date ("l jS F Y", $d);
> > }
> >
> > to print something like "Saturday 4th August 2001",
> > but this does NOT work correct for Months or Days 08 and 09! Why?
> >
> > Numbers starting with zero are interpreted by PHP as octal (which go
from
> > 00 to 07). 08 and 09 are illegal octal numbers and taken for zero
> > which shows totally confused dates.
> >
> > The second line must read:
> > eval(ereg_replace('(#+)-0?(#+)-0?(#+)',
> > to eliminate the leading zeroes.
> >
> > </tip>





From dwayne at iconys.com  Sat Jun 16 12:21:47 2001
From: dwayne at iconys.com (dwayne)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:21:47 2001
Subject: [thelist] Bizarre problem with the directory in Opera 5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <01061611215900.01507@dante.telusplanet.net>

for what it's worth, i couldn't duplicate this with Opera 5.0b on linux. 
tried with cache completely disabled, automatic RAM cache enabled, and 
caching of documents and images enabled, but it all worked just fine.

you got me...

On Saturday 16 June 2001 14:11, Simon Coggins wrote:
> To see the problem do the following:
>
> 1. Surf to dir.evolt.org using Opera 5
> 2. Type php in the search box and press go. You should get the search
> results screen.
> 3. Now try returning to the top level, by clicking on Top in the
> breadcrumbs trail or go via a category or the about page.
>
> When I do the steps listed above I get the search results page rather than
> the top level of the directory. Closing the browser and restarting solves
> the problem.

- dwayne



From fayec at canada.com  Sat Jun 16 12:33:07 2001
From: fayec at canada.com (Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC))
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:33:07 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
Message-ID: <3B2B97AD.CC28D457@canada.com>

 Hi,

I came across a posting from another mailing list that the mentioned the
site http://www.urbnet.com.
The person wanted to know how to create coloured scroll bars and after
looking at their code I found out that they do have a CSS style that
has:
<STYLE>
BODY
{scrollbar-face-color: #191919; scrollbar-shadow-color: #333333; 
scrollbar-highlight-color: #191919; scrollbar-3dlight-color: #444444; 
scrollbar-darkshadow-color: #191919; scrollbar-track-color: #333333; 
scrollbar-arrow-color: #999999}
</STYLE> 

The question I ask is how compatible these classes are as I didn't see
any color change in Mozilla, NS 4.77 or IE 5.0.1.....
Are they only compatible with IE 5.5 and maybe Opera?

TIA,

FayeC



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Jun 16 12:45:18 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:45:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
In-Reply-To: <3B2B97AD.CC28D457@canada.com>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEFAHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

Faye,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC)
: 
: BODY {
:   scrollbar-face-color: #191919;
:   scrollbar-shadow-color: #333333;
:   scrollbar-highlight-color: #191919;
:   scrollbar-3dlight-color: #444444;
:   scrollbar-darkshadow-color: #191919;
:   scrollbar-track-color: #333333; 
:   scrollbar-arrow-color: #999999;
: }
: 
: Are they only compatible with IE 5.5 and
: maybe Opera?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

they're only compatible with win/ie5.5+ as i understand it.

http://www.htmlcompendium.org/properties-list/Cscrolbr.htm

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Sat Jun 16 12:58:33 2001
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Sat Jun 16 12:58:33 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEFAHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <3B2B97AD.CC28D457@canada.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010616134937.01a8ddc0@mail.idirect.ca>

In the wee hour of 10:42 AM 6/16/01 -0700, .jeff bequeathed such tales as 
these:
>Faye,
>
>:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: From: Flavia Silveira-Tarzwell (FayeC)
>:
>: BODY {
>:   scrollbar-face-color: #191919;
>:   scrollbar-shadow-color: #333333;
>:   scrollbar-highlight-color: #191919;
>:   scrollbar-3dlight-color: #444444;
>:   scrollbar-darkshadow-color: #191919;
>:   scrollbar-track-color: #333333;
>:   scrollbar-arrow-color: #999999;
>: }
>:
>: Are they only compatible with IE 5.5 and
>: maybe Opera?
>:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>they're only compatible with win/ie5.5+ as i understand it.
>
>http://www.htmlcompendium.org/properties-list/Cscrolbr.htm
>
>good luck,
>
>.jeff
They are a nice addition but I get email with the colored borders and they 
show in Eudora too.  Do the borders show in all email app's?
Peter Kaulback




From codebitch at macedition.com  Sat Jun 16 13:53:53 2001
From: codebitch at macedition.com (CodeBitch)
Date: Sat Jun 16 13:53:53 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: A pixel is not a pixel (or rather, a px is not  pixel)
Message-ID: <3b2968f3.c9.0@webcentral.com.au>

Arlen,
The discussion at this URL may be relevant.
http://www.macedition.com/cb/cb_20010604.shtml

It should be pointed out that Opera 5/Mac's px-rescaling only applies to font
sizes, not other properties like height and width. So it's probably a case of
them reading the spec correctly and then forgetting that while Mac OS specifies
72dpi, most Mac screens actually have much higher resolution. I call this "doing
the wrong thing for the right reasons", while others prefer the nomenclature
"bug". Opera intend to fix this in the final release, so web designers can go
on for a few more years believing that a CSS px is a physical pixel, even when
it isn't.

On explaining how all the units work, I have heard good reports on the CSS book
by Hakon Lie and Bert Bos. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201596253/


I like your suggestions for future versions of the CSS standard ("I want 12px
text, but only if that's not less than 0.7 of the user's default size, so the
visually impaired with big font sizes can still read it"). However, all this
is moot if browser manufacturers can't even get CSS1 right, and some designers
can't even create pages with tags that balance.

Regards,
CB

>A couple of recent threads contained notes that pixels were the only way to

>achieve cross-platform consistency. Anyone who has seriously wedded
>themselves to this idea needs to have a look at Opera 5 for the Mac, which

>in fact renders pixel text on a Mac considerably smaller than pixel text on

>a Windows machine. Opera doesn't appear to consider this a bug, and in
>reading the CSS spec, they appear to be justified in that assertion, as the

>CSS spec asserts that the user agent (AKA browser) should in fact *not*
>consider a pixel as a screen pixel, but rather as a hypothetical unit
>approximately equal to 1/90th of an inch.
>
>Which means that if the user agent is not given the video density of the
>monitor attached, it will assume the platform standard (72 pixels per inch

>for MacOS) and resize the value accordingly. (BTW, for the more technically

>inclined: Since almost the beginning of time, MacOS internally has
>contained fields purporting to be the horizontal and vertical dpi values of

>the attached screen. I think some video driver writers even use them. But
>Apple doesn't; Quickdraw, and therefore MacOS, always assumes 72. No idea
>if this has changed under OS X, as I haven't had the time to take it apart,

>yet.)
>
>Pixels aren't your saviour. Get used to the idea that your wonderful
>pixel-perfect beautifully-colored layout will *only* be that way on your
>own screen, and start designing by rules, rather than pixels.
>
>If anyone's got an "in" with the W3C, here's what's needed:
>1) A way to read the rendering assumptions of the browser (96dpi, 72dpi,
>whatever)
>2) A "minimum-font-size" attribute, which functions as a limit beneath
>which the user agent should ignore font sizing declarations
>3) A way of reading the current rendering size of an object specified in
>relative measurements. (200% of what? How big's an em? That sort of thing.

>
>These should all be part of the standard, so that if/when a browser decides

>to support it we can use them to help our pages understand the conditions
>they're about to be subjected to.
>
>(If I seem to be ranting there at the end, it's because I just ran into
>*another* site designed by someone who knows better than *I* do what size I

>want my browser window set at. My apologies if I carried the rancor along
>with me. Maybe I should code up an extra for the Mozilla project; a
>preference button that replaces that particular piece of, um, javascript
>code with a quick redirect to the top of the history stack.)
>
>Have fun,
>Arlen
>Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
>DNRC 224
>
>Arlen.P.Walker at JCI.Com




From rhoenig at gilmanassembly.com  Sat Jun 16 13:54:10 2001
From: rhoenig at gilmanassembly.com (Hoenig, Robert)
Date: Sat Jun 16 13:54:10 2001
Subject: [thelist] Help
Message-ID: <81E354B61E88D411A90D00B0D0222C426EDAC9@lsexc001>

I have two questions.  

1. Has any one used Windows 2000 Media Server?  I'm trying to get familiar
with it and I just have some questions about it.  If you could e-mail me off
the list at rhoenig at gilmanassembly.com I would appreciate it.

and 2. I'm trying to put some of our corporate contacts on an intranet page.
I would like to get into Outlooks contact folder and just pull the
information through that but I can't figure out how.  Or if someone knows
what parameters I would need to pass a page to the OWA and just link through
there.

Thank you
Robert




From keni at barwick.net  Sat Jun 16 13:54:24 2001
From: keni at barwick.net (Keni Barwick)
Date: Sat Jun 16 13:54:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK
Message-ID: <200106141410.f5EEA9q24054@leo.evolt.org>

Any one have any knowledge of ADSL in this country (UK)

I need 
512 DownLoad 
256 Upload 
No Nat
With Real IP's?

I have the best price so far of 

?110 per month from BT






From cspruck at mindspring.com  Sat Jun 16 13:56:03 2001
From: cspruck at mindspring.com (Chris Spruck)
Date: Sat Jun 16 13:56:03 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010616134937.01a8ddc0@mail.idirect.ca>
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEFAHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
 <3B2B97AD.CC28D457@canada.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010616143306.00ba6220@pop3.norton.antivirus>

>They are a nice addition but I get email with the colored borders and they 
>show in Eudora too.  Do the borders show in all email app's?
>Peter Kaulback

Peter,

You probably get the borders in Eudora, because the Microsoft "viewer" can 
be used (and may be the default) in Eudora to view HTML content. I bet if 
you go to Tools>Options>Viewing Mail and uncheck "Use Microsoft viewer", 
the borders (and lots of other HTML/CSS effects) will go away.

Chris

<tip type="Eudora">
Any menu command in Eudora can be added to a custom toolbar as a button.
This is really useful to label and categorize posts you want to save. For 
instance, you
can set your labels to "URL to check", "Source to save", etc., then instead 
of having to dig
through a menu to set the label of something you want to archive, you can 
just highlight the
message(s) and click in your toolbar.
</tip>




From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Sat Jun 16 14:12:34 2001
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:12:34 2001
Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK
References: <200106141410.f5EEA9q24054@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <01f701c0f697$863b4620$c3891e3e@harrypotter>

Hi Keni

Our office is on an ADSL line of exactly your specifications, 512k down, 256
up, non NAT and we got 16 IP addresses as part of the package.  Rental is
about ?100 a month.  We get our line from Clara.net, and they have been
excellent.  Very supportive during the install (according to them BT screw
up about 90% of the non-Nat installations), and we've had very little
downtime.  They offer a reseller package where you get 10% off line rentals
(including your own).  So yes we are re-sellers, but even if we weren't I'd
still recommend Clara.net to you.

Norman


----- Original Message -----
From: "Keni Barwick" <keni at barwick.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 3:06 PM
Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK


> Any one have any knowledge of ADSL in this country (UK)
>
> I need
> 512 DownLoad
> 256 Upload
> No Nat
> With Real IP's?
>
> I have the best price so far of
>
> ?110 per month from BT
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From freda at appleonline.net  Sat Jun 16 14:13:09 2001
From: freda at appleonline.net (Freda Lockert)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:13:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Re: A pixel is not a pixel (or rather, a px is not 
 pixel)
In-Reply-To: <3b2968f3.c9.0@webcentral.com.au>
References: <3b2968f3.c9.0@webcentral.com.au>
Message-ID: <a05001900b7515ee032ae@[212.1.140.4]>

>
>On explaining how all the units work, I have heard good reports on 
>the CSS book
>by Hakon Lie and Bert Bos. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201596253/

In passing, Hakon Lie is Technical Officer at Opera, on the Board of 
W3C and wrote a sizeable chunk of the CSS 1 and 2 specs.

Freda

-- 
Spaceship Earth: The problem for the passengers is that there is no 
manual to identify all the parts, and no instructions on how to 
operate the spaceship. - Richard Buckminster Fuller. 



From hsport at gateway.net  Sat Jun 16 14:17:59 2001
From: hsport at gateway.net (hsport)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:17:59 2001
Subject: [thelist] Questions
Message-ID: <001501c0f699$0af484c0$e8f0143f@oemcomputer>

Hi All,

I am new to ColdFusion and I have 2 questions.

1) How do I create a date object in ColdFusion (mm-dd-yy) format to appear
at the top of the page?

2) On a form I have separate fields for inputting a phone area code, phone
prefix and a phone suffix.  How would I combine those into one variable,
formatted as (555)121-2121,  to be inserted in a database field phone?

Thanks,
Bill




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sat Jun 16 14:27:29 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:27:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
Message-ID: <0aa820727191061PCOW034M@blueyonder.co.uk>

Peter Kaulback wrote on 16/6/01 6:51 pm

>They are a nice addition but I get email with the colored borders and they 
>show in Eudora too.  Do the borders show in all email app's?

Presumably if they use the ie rendering engine (pretty sure
Eudora does)

Cheers
Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Sat Jun 16 14:28:19 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:28:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Questions
In-Reply-To: <001501c0f699$0af484c0$e8f0143f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616142146.030e0bc0@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 02:17 PM 6/16/2001, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I am new to ColdFusion and I have 2 questions.
>
>1) How do I create a date object in ColdFusion (mm-dd-yy) format to appear
>at the top of the page?

Use this within <CFOUTPUT>...</CFOUTPUT>
#DateFormat(Now(),"MM-DD-YY")#

>2) On a form I have separate fields for inputting a phone area code, phone
>prefix and a phone suffix.  How would I combine those into one variable,
>formatted as (555)121-2121,  to be inserted in a database field phone?

<CFSET new_phone = "(#Form.area_code#)#Form.prefix#-#Form.suffix#">

Then use the #new_phone# variable wherever you need to.

--Ben


<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Jun 16 14:30:04 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:30:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string
In-Reply-To: <03f701c0f60b$89507b00$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELKEFHHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

alan,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: head lemur
:
: I will be using it for this;
: http://www.lemurzone.com/ie6.htm
:
: Yes I know all the reasons not to do
: this, but I am drawing the line here.
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

comments like "We have disabled the Image Tool bar feature to prevent the
theft of our images [...]", "They are not your images they are mine.", "If
you feel that these measures are unfair, consider if we came to your house
and started walking off with your stuff.", etc will only serve to alienate
your visitors.  you've found them guilty simply for using a particular
browser -- something which they may not even have control over.  they don't
care if you don't like some new browser features.   they don't care if you
blame microsoft for it.  the only thing they know or care about is that
you're the one locking them out of your site -- not microsoft.

furthermore, you're locking them out simply for using a browser that has
some features you dislike without any care for whether or not they've
actually been enabled.  so, i'm a user that agrees with your distaste for
the image toolbar and smart tags and have disabled these features.  however,
because my browser's user agent string matches your check i'm still denied
access.  i'm sorry but that's just really f*cked up -- especially with all
the hype developers put on using standards compliant browsers (for example,
ie6) and my effort as a user to use the most standards compliant browser
available.

why all the fuss over a preview release anyway.  don't you think that the
fact that the <meta> tag for smart tags doesn't work is simply a bug and not
a feature?

as a sidenote, having the users send complaints to msdn at microsoft.com is
also wrong.  msdn has nothing to do with browser development.  it's solely
responsible for the online documentation of microsoft technology.  if you're
going to continue alienating your users like this, the least you could do is
research alittle better the address these sort of complaints should be sent
to.  after all, it's your fault they can't see your site.

<tip type="ie6 & image toolbar" author=".jeff">

wanna disable the image toolbar for a particular image?  just add this to
the <img> tag:

galleryimg="no"

now when the user hovers their mouse over the image they won't get the image
toolbar.

wanna disable the image toolbar for all images on a page?  just add this
meta tag to the page:

<META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no">

</tip>

just my 2?,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Jun 16 14:40:09 2001
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:40:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Questions
In-Reply-To: <001501c0f699$0af484c0$e8f0143f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELMEFIHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

bill,

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: From: hsport
:
: I am new to ColdFusion [...]
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

documentation is your friend.  if you have cfstudio installed, i encourage
you to familiarize yourself with the tags and functions reference sections.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: 1) How do I create a date object in ColdFusion
:    (mm-dd-yy) format to appear at the top of the
:    page?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now() is the function to create a date object relevant to the current
date/time of the server.  If you want to format that, then use the
DateFormat() function.

If you're using cf studio, then in your menu bar go to Tools > Expression
Builder.  expand Expression Elements > Functions > Date and Time.  There are
a whole bunch of functions listed that help you work with the date object.

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: 2) On a form I have separate fields for inputting
:    a phone area code, phone prefix and a phone
:    suffix.  How would I combine those into one
:    variable, formatted as (555)121-2121,  to be
:    inserted in a database field phone?
:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you could either do it in the insert statement itself or in another variable
that's used in the insert statement.

option 1

<cfquery name="myquery" ...>
  INSERT INTO myTable (phone)
  VALUES ('(#form.phone_areacode#)#form.phone_prefix#-#form.phone_suffix#')
</cfquery>

option 2

<cfset phone = "(" & form.phone_areacode & ")" & form.phone_prefix & "-" &
form.phone_suffix>
<cfquery name="myquery" ...>
  INSERT INTO myTable (phone)
  VALUES ('#phone#')
</cfquery>

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From ritternd at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 16 14:40:54 2001
From: ritternd at yahoo.com (Chase Ritter)
Date: Sat Jun 16 14:40:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] Questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616142146.030e0bc0@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <20010616193828.55886.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com>

Where's a good place to start looking into ColdFusion?

--- Ben Dyer <ben_dyer at imaginuity.com> wrote:
> At 02:17 PM 6/16/2001, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I am new to ColdFusion and I have 2 questions.
> >
> >1) How do I create a date object in ColdFusion
> (mm-dd-yy) format to appear
> >at the top of the page?
> 
> Use this within <CFOUTPUT>...</CFOUTPUT>
> #DateFormat(Now(),"MM-DD-YY")#
> 
> >2) On a form I have separate fields for inputting a
> phone area code, phone
> >prefix and a phone suffix.  How would I combine
> those into one variable,
> >formatted as (555)121-2121,  to be inserted in a
> database field phone?
> 
> <CFSET new_phone =
> "(#Form.area_code#)#Form.prefix#-#Form.suffix#">
> 
> Then use the #new_phone# variable wherever you need
> to.
> 
> --Ben
> 
> 
> <!-----------------------
> Ben Dyer
> Senior Internet Developer
> Imaginuity Interactive
> http://www.imaginuity.com
> //---------------------->
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/



From data at data1701d.com  Sat Jun 16 15:15:00 2001
From: data at data1701d.com (Bill Mason)
Date: Sat Jun 16 15:15:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
In-Reply-To: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEFAHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <3B2B97AD.CC28D457@canada.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010616130912.009f0700@data1701d.com>

At 10:42 AM 06/16/2001, jeff wrote:
>they're only compatible with win/ie5.5+ as i understand it.

They only work with IE6, from what I understand, if it's rendering the page 
in its quirks mode.  In standards mode, it ignores the scroll bar CSS since 
it's non-standard code.

Someone who actually *has* IE6 will no doubt set me straight if I heard 
this wrong. <grin>

Bill Mason
data at data1701d.com
Dateline: Starfleet
http://www.data1701d.com
http://profile.guru.com/billmason




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Sat Jun 16 15:28:15 2001
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Sat Jun 16 15:28:15 2001
Subject: [thelist] Questions
In-Reply-To: <20010616193828.55886.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616142146.030e0bc0@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616151540.00af2080@mail.imaginuity.com>

I would strongly recommend picking up a copy of Ben Forta's ColdFusion 4.0 
Web Application Construction Kit.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/078971809X/

That's how I learned.

Later in life, try Ben Forta's ColdFusion 4.0 Advanced ColdFusion 4.0 
Application Development.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0789718103/

But that one is definitely not necessary for beginners.

Also, if you like lots of e-mail, try http://www.houseoffusion.com/ and 
join the CF-Talk mailing list.

Some people don't like it, but you could also try the ColdFusion 
Developer's Journal: http://www.sys-con.com/coldfusion/index2.cfm.

And, of course, Allaire has lots of resources: 
http://www.allaire.com/developer/referenceDesk/index.cfm.

--Ben

At 02:38 PM 6/16/2001, you wrote:
>Where's a good place to start looking into ColdFusion?
>
>--- Ben Dyer <ben_dyer at imaginuity.com> wrote:
> > At 02:17 PM 6/16/2001, you wrote:
> > >Hi All,
> > >
> > >I am new to ColdFusion and I have 2 questions.
> > >
> > >1) How do I create a date object in ColdFusion
> > (mm-dd-yy) format to appear
> > >at the top of the page?
> >
> > Use this within <CFOUTPUT>...</CFOUTPUT>
> > #DateFormat(Now(),"MM-DD-YY")#
> >
> > >2) On a form I have separate fields for inputting a
> > phone area code, phone
> > >prefix and a phone suffix.  How would I combine
> > those into one variable,
> > >formatted as (555)121-2121,  to be inserted in a
> > database field phone?
> >
> > <CFSET new_phone =
> > "(#Form.area_code#)#Form.prefix#-#Form.suffix#">
> >
> > Then use the #new_phone# variable wherever you need
> > to.
> >
> > --Ben

<!-----------------------
Ben Dyer
Senior Internet Developer
Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com
//---------------------->





From headlemur at qwest.net  Sat Jun 16 15:37:00 2001
From: headlemur at qwest.net (the head lemur)
Date: Sat Jun 16 15:37:00 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELKEFHHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <004101c0f6a3$97db2ec0$0b646464@qwest.net>

I agree with your analysis of my page.
I will also agree to disagree. We both know this is a beta browser and this
feature may not make the final cut in the shipping version.
It is my site and my opinion.


>you've found them guilty simply for using a particular
> browser -- something which they may not even have control over.  they
don't
> care if you don't like some new browser features.   they don't care if you
> blame microsoft for it.  the only thing they know or care about is that
> you're the one locking them out of your site -- not microsoft.

I agree with your conclusion..

My page reflects my opinion and is in beta.
Like the browser. I would rather look like an idiot today than support a
feature by adding additional code which will be overwritten and ignored by
the user preferences in the browser.

(this is already touted as a user enhancement as well as helping
"underlinked sites" whatever that means,  feature by MS as i am writing
this)

I could  send you a cookie so that you would see it only once.
I could also include a link to the site after i made my point.
All of these will be considered as the browser gets closer to shipping.


> furthermore, you're locking them out simply for using a browser that has
> some features you dislike without any care for whether or not they've
> actually been enabled.

Which there is no way to check for currently.

>so, i'm a user that agrees with your distaste for
> the image toolbar and smart tags and have disabled these features.


>however,
> because my browser's user agent string matches your check i'm still denied
> access.  i'm sorry but that's just really f*cked up -- especially with all
> the hype developers put on using standards compliant browsers (for
example,
> ie6) and my effort as a user to use the most standards compliant browser
> available.

Yes it is really f*cked up  and the ugliest thing I have ever done.

> why all the fuss over a preview release anyway.  don't you think that the
> fact that the <meta> tag for smart tags doesn't work is simply a bug and
not
> a feature?
No.

Nor do I consider waiting a year or so to make a point after there are 2
million copies of it out there.

I also have over 20 websites whose owners pay me to help them make money,
with their own links, and have not indicated to me that smart tags are
something they want on their sites either.

But now I am on the escalating cycle of adding more code to a page, and
needing on it on every page to overcome these 'features'. If it actually
works at all.

which puts us right back to adding more code that browsers do not support
consistantly yet.

I will also agree to disagree.








From genghis at members.evolt.org  Sat Jun 16 18:45:21 2001
From: genghis at members.evolt.org (John Handelaar)
Date: Sat Jun 16 18:45:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK
In-Reply-To: <200106141410.f5EEA9q24054@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <EKECLALLPEHGEHLPBJBNEEFHCBAA.genghis@members.evolt.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Keni Barwick
> Sent: 14 June 2001 15:06
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK
> 
> 
> Any one have any knowledge of ADSL in this country (UK)

Hi Keni

Try Mistral or Nildram, ISPs of choice for the london.pm
crowd - I doubt that the perlmongers would settle for
USB or NAT.

jh



From lwkraemer at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 16 21:55:18 2001
From: lwkraemer at earthlink.net (lon.kraemer)
Date: Sat Jun 16 21:55:18 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string
References: <03f701c0f60b$89507b00$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <001301c0f6d8$7f57c040$7264fc9e@lonnie>

This should get you where you want to go.

if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("MSIE 6") != -1) Ie6 = true;

OR

go to
http://fargo.itp.tsoa.nyu.edu/~arf213/CGI/Class3.shtml
with IE6 for the full HTTP_USER_AGENT string

HTH,
Lon

----- Original Message -----
From: "the head lemur" <headlemur at qwest.net>
To: "!Evolt" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:24 PM
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string


> I am looking for the browser ID string for IE 6 for a javascript redirect.
>
>
>
> Stolen from http://www.scottandrew.com
>
> He is a Netscape guy and one hell of a coder in anybodys ballpark.
>
> this function kills all IE versions. I would like to just exclude IE6
>
>
> if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("MSIE") > -1) {
>   location.replace("get_lost.html");
> }
>
> I will be using it for this;
> http://www.lemurzone.com/ie6.htm
>
> Yes I know all the reasons not to do this, but I am drawing the line here.
>
> tip forthcoming
>
> the head lemur
> Web Standards
> http://www.webstandards.org
> Evolt.org
> http://www.evolt.org
> Lemurzone
> http://www.lemurzone.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From cache at dowebs.com  Sat Jun 16 22:24:43 2001
From: cache at dowebs.com (Keith Davis)
Date: Sat Jun 16 22:24:43 2001
Subject: [thelist] Refresh Brain Teaser....
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010615175629.02e6f700@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <3B2C22FA.3574C7F0@dowebs.com>

Anthony Baratta wrote:
> 
> I've been beating on this problem for most of the day with no success. For
> most of my solutions Netscape works, but IE does not.
> 
> I have a popup window that is set to refresh every 5 minutes. I need the
> page not be refreshed from the cache, ever.
> 

Try:

1) loading the page with a query string so the browser assumes the page
is unique data
http://www.foo.com/dir/popupnews.html?1

2) reloading that unique data
setTimeout("re()",1500)
function re(){
location=location
}

That seems to be the only thing I've found that works, unless it doesn't
then we're both back to square one.

keith



From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sat Jun 16 22:30:13 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sat Jun 16 22:30:13 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem with php filesize()
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616222108.022e6d38@redhotsweeps.com>

Does anyone know if there are any problems with filesize in php 
4.0.4pl1?  I am simply trying to get the filesize of a graphic and it keeps 
showing as 0 bytes.

My code will retrieve a file listing but not the size.  Any one know?  Here 
is my code.

<?
$new_file_name = "cditty.jpg";
$userid = "cditty";
$handle = opendir("/home/$userid");
while(false!==($file = readdir($handle))){
     if($file == "cditty.jpg"){
          echo $file . " " . filesize($file) . "<br>";
     }
}
?>

Thanks

Chris





From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sat Jun 16 23:45:09 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sat Jun 16 23:45:09 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem with php filesize()
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616222108.022e6d38@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616233949.022b4790@redhotsweeps.com>

Ok...This is weird.  I have been playing with this and now some of the file 
sizes will display.  It doesn't give the sizes for the image files and only 
for 1 php file.

statistics.htm 2881
upload.htm 2346
tab2-3x5.gif
tab2-3x5.php
image.php 5393
cditty.php
list.htm 3823
shamrockrow.php
statsbydate.htm 2057
cditty.jpg
index.htm 76
shamrockrow.gif


I checked the file ownership on a hunch and that isn't it.   Any one have 
any ideas?

Chris


At 10:29 PM 6/16/2001, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if there are any problems with filesize in php 
>4.0.4pl1?  I am simply trying to get the filesize of a graphic and it 
>keeps showing as 0 bytes.
>
>My code will retrieve a file listing but not the size.  Any one 
>know?  Here is my code.
>
><?
>$new_file_name = "cditty.jpg";
>$userid = "cditty";
>$handle = opendir("/home/$userid");
>while(false!==($file = readdir($handle))){
>     if($file == "cditty.jpg"){
>          echo $file . " " . filesize($file) . "<br>";
>     }
>}
>?>




From skaiser at skdesigns.com  Sat Jun 16 23:57:19 2001
From: skaiser at skdesigns.com (Shirley Kaiser, SKDesigns)
Date: Sat Jun 16 23:57:19 2001
Subject: [thelist] Scroll bar colors
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010616130912.009f0700@data1701d.com>
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELEEFAHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
 <3B2B97AD.CC28D457@canada.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010616214651.02738260@pop3.midtown.net>

At 01:12 PM 06/16/2001, you wrote:
>At 10:42 AM 06/16/2001, jeff wrote:
>>they're only compatible with win/ie5.5+ as i understand it.
>
>They only work with IE6, from what I understand, if it's rendering the 
>page in its quirks mode.  In standards mode, it ignores the scroll bar CSS 
>since it's non-standard code.
>
>Someone who actually *has* IE6 will no doubt set me straight if I heard 
>this wrong. <grin>
>
>Bill Mason
>data at data1701d.com
>Dateline: Starfleet
>http://www.data1701d.com
>http://profile.guru.com/billmason

I wrote a tutorial for WebsiteTips.com on how to do these colored 
scrollbars. It does work for IE5.5. I wrote it before IE6 came out, and I 
haven't tested it or looked, but I researched all that with links to 
sources at the tutorial for further info a couple of months ago.

Also, I just tried it on my PC with Opera 5.1, and the scrollbar tags 
aren't recognized.

And yes, the code won't cause a problem for browsers that don't recognize 
it. It just gets ignored.

FYI, here's the tutorial, and you'll see a right side column with links to 
the resources at Microsoft and elsewhere for further info:

Coloring Your Scrollbars with CSS
<http://www.websitetips.com/info/css/scrollbars.html>

HTH.

Warmly,
Shirley

-- 
Shirley E. Kaiser, M.A.
SKDesigns  mailto:skaiser at skdesigns.com
Website Development  http://www.skdesigns.com/
Pianist, Composer  http://www.shirleykaiser.com/
Moderator, I-Design http://www.adventive.com/lists/idesign/summary.html




From noah at tookish.net  Sun Jun 17 01:25:05 2001
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Sun Jun 17 01:25:05 2001
Subject: [thelist] Bizarre problem with the directory in Opera 5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106161459140.26584-100000@granby.ccc.nottin
 gham.ac.uk>
References: <41C0B6AB2A57D3119ED800A0C9EA392002BE9B8D@arnold.bedrock.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010617021502.02917e60@tookish.net>

At 03:11 PM 16/06/2001 +0100, Simon Coggins wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I've just come across a rather odd problem with the evolt directory
><http://dir.evolt.org/> in Opera and I was wondering if anyone had any
>idea what could be wrong.
>
>To see the problem do the following:
>
>1. Surf to dir.evolt.org using Opera 5
>2. Type php in the search box and press go. You should get the search
>results screen.
>3. Now try returning to the top level, by clicking on Top in the
>breadcrumbs trail or go via a category or the about page.
>
>When I do the steps listed above I get the search results page rather than
>the top level of the directory. Closing the browser and restarting solves
>the problem.
>
>My best guess is that it has something to do with Opera's caching of the
>page combined with the way it handles the POST data from the
>search. Anyone ever come across anything like this?

I wasn't able to reproduce the behaviour, but here's my 2 cents all the same.

I use Opera as my main browser, and I'm a big fan, but there is definitely 
a problem regarding page caching. My ISP uses a php script for server 
administration, but I can not use Opera to do the administration because it 
insists on loading pages from the cache even after I make changes. Even if 
I reload after making a change, Opera reloads the introductory page 
(presumably because the page I've made the changes on is actually just the 
same file with some variables included), and then when I go back to the 
page on which I've made changes, it loads the page from the cache again.

Not 100% sure that this is the same problem, but I wouldn't be surprised if 
it's related.

Cheers,

Noah




From adrian at logo-logic.com  Sun Jun 17 07:01:44 2001
From: adrian at logo-logic.com (Adrian Fischer)
Date: Sun Jun 17 07:01:44 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl-limiting size of returned number?
Message-ID: <014f01c0f724$cfaa4620$83ba2dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>

Hi Guys,

This is the problem...Im using perl's time as a file number but I only want
to use the first 5 numbers of the number returned.  I think I can do it with
sprintf() or printf() but am not sure of the syntax.  Again  think it would
look something like this:
<snip>
$new_file=time;
$file_no= (sprintf("%0d",$new_file));
</snip>
this aint right because this will trim decimals or something.  I want only
return the first 5 or so places.

Thanks

Adrian Fischer




From dwayne at iconys.com  Sun Jun 17 10:36:21 2001
From: dwayne at iconys.com (dwayne)
Date: Sun Jun 17 10:36:21 2001
Subject: [thelist] Perl-limiting size of returned number?
In-Reply-To: <014f01c0f724$cfaa4620$83ba2dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
References: <014f01c0f724$cfaa4620$83ba2dcb@qld.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <01061709365300.16337@dante.telusplanet.net>

hi, adrian,

try:
$file_no = sprintf "%.5s", time(); 

putting a ".number" between the % and the conversion letter will limit 
precision for floating point numbers, give the minimum length for an integer, 
and the maximum length for a string. so you want to treat the number returned 
by time() as a string.

hth

- dwayne

On Sunday 17 June 2001 11:58, Adrian Fischer wrote:
> This is the problem...Im using perl's time as a file number but I only want
> to use the first 5 numbers of the number returned.  I think I can do it
> with sprintf() or printf() but am not sure of the syntax.  Again  think it
> would look something like this:
> <snip>
> $new_file=time;
> $file_no= (sprintf("%0d",$new_file));
> </snip>
> this aint right because this will trim decimals or something.  I want only
> return the first 5 or so places.



From chrisg at gsnet.com  Sun Jun 17 10:54:51 2001
From: chrisg at gsnet.com (Chris George)
Date: Sun Jun 17 10:54:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem with php filesize()
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616222108.022e6d38@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <001101c0f745$83a35f20$2c914f18@ed.shawcable.net>

I hope this doesn't get posted twice, but it doesn't look like my first post
came through. Here's what I said:

Chris,

I was going through the comments in the online PHP documentation on readdir
and filesize and caught this:

"When executing a "readdir" command, filesize doesn't seem able to get the
size of some files if they aren't in the same directory as the script. The
workaround to this is changing the working directory with "chdir" in
addition to "readdir"."

Could this be your problem?

http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.filesize.php

--
cdg

----- Original Message -----
From: "CDitty" <mail at redhotsweeps.com>
> Does anyone know if there are any problems with filesize in php
> 4.0.4pl1?  I am simply trying to get the filesize of a graphic and it
keeps
> showing as 0 bytes.
>
> My code will retrieve a file listing but not the size.  Any one know?
Here
> is my code.
>
> <?
> $new_file_name = "cditty.jpg";
> $userid = "cditty";
> $handle = opendir("/home/$userid");
> while(false!==($file = readdir($handle))){
>      if($file == "cditty.jpg"){
>           echo $file . " " . filesize($file) . "<br>";
>      }
> }
> ?>
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris




From mail at redhotsweeps.com  Sun Jun 17 11:02:26 2001
From: mail at redhotsweeps.com (CDitty)
Date: Sun Jun 17 11:02:26 2001
Subject: [thelist] Problem with php filesize()
In-Reply-To: <001101c0f745$83a35f20$2c914f18@ed.shawcable.net>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010616222108.022e6d38@redhotsweeps.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010617105846.031e4e90@redhotsweeps.com>

This is the only copy  I have received.  I actually tried that and for some 
reason, it didn't work.  I have no idea why it wouldn't work.  Same code 
used elsewhere works.  I actually gave up on this section and rewrote the 
working copy to handle this.

Strangest thing with this is that for some reason, some files had filesizes 
and others didn't.  Oh well. Go figure.  :)

Thanks

Chris

At 10:52 AM 6/17/2001, you wrote:
>I hope this doesn't get posted twice, but it doesn't look like my first post
>came through. Here's what I said:
>
>Chris,
>
>I was going through the comments in the online PHP documentation on readdir
>and filesize and caught this:
>
>"When executing a "readdir" command, filesize doesn't seem able to get the
>size of some files if they aren't in the same directory as the script. The
>workaround to this is changing the working directory with "chdir" in
>addition to "readdir"."
>
>Could this be your problem?
>
>http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.filesize.php
>
>--
>cdg
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "CDitty" <mail at redhotsweeps.com>
> > Does anyone know if there are any problems with filesize in php
> > 4.0.4pl1?  I am simply trying to get the filesize of a graphic and it
>keeps
> > showing as 0 bytes.
> >
> > My code will retrieve a file listing but not the size.  Any one know?
>Here
> > is my code.
> >
> > <?
> > $new_file_name = "cditty.jpg";
> > $userid = "cditty";
> > $handle = opendir("/home/$userid");
> > while(false!==($file = readdir($handle))){
> >      if($file == "cditty.jpg"){
> >           echo $file . " " . filesize($file) . "<br>";
> >      }
> > }
> > ?>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Chris
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From pagehealer at pagehealer.com  Sun Jun 17 12:30:52 2001
From: pagehealer at pagehealer.com (PageHealer)
Date: Sun Jun 17 12:30:52 2001
Subject: [thelist] making div's 100% wide?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010616151540.00af2080@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <B7526082.3754%pagehealer@pagehealer.com>

Hi all,

Is there any way to specify a div as 100% width and actually have it fill
100% of the screen width? I have tried applying background colors to my
divs, and the color doesn't extend all the way to the right side of the
page. (I've also tried this in 100% tables within the 100%-width div, with
the same result.) If I make the div's width more than 100%, it works, but it
adds horizontal scroll bars. And when you scroll to the right, you still see
the ugly gap.

This is happening in both IE and NN, and the gap is wide; it's not just the
standard scrollbar-width gap that you sometimes get in NN.

I have already added rightmargin="0" to the body tag, just in case, but it
made no difference. What should I do to make this work?

Thanks
Emily




From martin at members.evolt.org  Sun Jun 17 13:03:28 2001
From: martin at members.evolt.org (Martin)
Date: Sun Jun 17 13:03:28 2001
Subject: [thelist] making div's 100% wide?
Message-ID: <0fc280203181161PCOW024M@blueyonder.co.uk>

PageHealer wrote on 17/6/01 6:26 pm

>Is there any way to specify a div as 100% width and actually have it fill
>100% of the screen width? I have tried applying background colors to my
>divs, and the color doesn't extend all the way to the right side of the
>page. (I've also tried this in 100% tables within the 100%-width div, with
>the same result.) If I make the div's width more than 100%, it works, but it
>adds horizontal scroll bars. And when you scroll to the right, you still see
>the ugly gap.

Emily

What's your body tag doing in terms of margins (in the tag and
in CSS)?

Martin

_______________________________________________
email: martin at easyweb.co.uk             PGP ID: 0xA835CCCB
       martin at members.evolt.org      snailmail: 30 Shandon Place
  tel: +44 (0)774 063 9985                      Edinburgh,
  url: http://www.easyweb.co.uk                 Scotland




From sabrina.dent at appercept.co.uk  Sun Jun 17 13:06:42 2001
From: sabrina.dent at appercept.co.uk (Sabrina Dent, Apperception)
Date: Sun Jun 17 13:06:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] Bulk Email?
Message-ID: <001901c0f759$256ca100$31ea7bd5@sabrina>

Ahoy, the List...

I have a rather large (for me) website about to go live on 1 July.  Its an
online community for women (yes, another one) and it's based around writing;
authors are invited to upload Poetry, Fiction, Non-Fiction and Erotica in a
range of categories, with the content focus on women.  There are also
boards, postcards, shopping, etc.

Due to the erotica, this site has been (under protest) classified as Adult.
I've now entered a whole new world where I'm utterly lost.  I was planning
to send out a targeted bulk emailing via a bulk email list vendor, but this
is proving problematic because the content is "adult." My only option seems
to be these hideous porn mail lists. This *isn't* porn, and I don't want to
mail out to a bunch of guys.  I want to reach women and authors of all types
of either gender. Everyone is welcome, but again, the focus is on women.

Does anyone know of a bulk email list that offers targeting and would take
ads for a site of this type?  Or appropriate email newsletters where I could
advertise? Or have any other ideas?

I feel like my child has just been called ugly and rejected from my
preferred kindergarten.

Cheers,
Bri

<tip type="Documenting" author="DarlingBri">
When you are working on a website, be sure to document things that you - or
your digital heirs - will need to know later, even if they seem obvious now.
Aside from the normal comments you are *undoubtedly* using *faithfully* in
your code, be sure to send a .txt file to the server as part of the site.
Document, for example, the font information for the buttons, the colour
palette, and other details like that.
</tip>
---------------------
Sabrina Dent
Director of Online Services
Apperception Ltd.
http://www.appercept.co.uk
(+44) 0870 746 1340




From gozz at gozz.com  Sun Jun 17 14:13:24 2001
From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis)
Date: Sun Jun 17 14:13:24 2001
Subject: [thelist] looking for IE Identity string
In-Reply-To: <004101c0f6a3$97db2ec0$0b646464@qwest.net>
References: <ANEOJKCILBBIJMGALNELKEFHHOAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
 <004101c0f6a3$97db2ec0$0b646464@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <p04310103b752aece2d59@[192.168.1.100]>

I'm not sure what there is to get upset about regarding functions to 
make it easier to save images ... the consensus on the list every 
time someone wants to prevent the "theft" of their images is to put a 
watermark on them. And don't all major browsers already have a 
contextual menu option of some sort that allow you save images?

But as practical matter, if Smart Tags are in the final release, I 
imagine they will be exposed to scripting, so something like 
document.all.smartTags.length might be a better thing to check before 
redirecting.
-- 

- Erik Mattheis

A poltergeist in the flesh.

(612) 827 3963



From annie at twitch.ca  Sun Jun 17 15:20:29 2001
From: annie at twitch.ca (Annie)
Date: Sun Jun 17 15:20:29 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fading text in with Flash
In-Reply-To: <001901c0f759$256ca100$31ea7bd5@sabrina>
Message-ID: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONGEJACAAA.annie@twitch.ca>

Hi :) Flash novice here
I'm trying to create a few simple flash flicks to get the hang of it, and
I've run into a little wall :)
What Flash tool would I use to fade text in from blank to full color, and
how?
Thanks!!
Annie




From joshua at alphashop.net  Sun Jun 17 15:24:36 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Jun 17 15:24:36 2001
Subject: [thelist] Fading text in with Flash
In-Reply-To: <AEEMKOOEFCFNBBJALEONGEJACAAA.annie@twitch.ca>
Message-ID: <LNEFJPKEAGHBMOBAJOCNCENFCAAA.joshua@alphashop.net>

Annie,

http://www.were-here.com/forum/tutorials/picture_fade/index.html

Not exactly what you are looking for, but may be helpful.

Found this link under:

http://www.google.com/search?q=flash+generator+fade

-joshua

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Fading text in with Flash


Hi :) Flash novice here
I'm trying to create a few simple flash flicks to get the hang of it, and
I've run into a little wall :)
What Flash tool would I use to fade text in from blank to full color, and
how?
Thanks!!
Annie




From stressed_dweeb at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 17 15:56:41 2001
From: stressed_dweeb at hotmail.com (Matthew Lockwood)
Date: Sun Jun 17 15:56:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] document.write
Message-ID: <F239WnQYFK64iIC3lb100003817@hotmail.com>

does anyone know how to solve the problem of using document.write in 
functions??
I have just done that and found that it opens a new page and only writes the 
stuff inside the brackets after the document.write.... which isn't what I 
want at all.

Is there any special way to stop this from happening or can you just simply 
not do this in functions.

cheers

M@
_________________________________________________________________________
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From joshua at alphashop.net  Sun Jun 17 16:01:42 2001
From: joshua at alphashop.net (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sun Jun 17 16:01:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] document.write
In-Reply-To: <F239WnQYFK64iIC3lb100003817@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LNEFJPKEAGHBMOBAJOCNMENFCAAA.joshua@alphashop.net>

document.write() will overwrite the document if the document is already done
rendering.  So, it should be used not within a function, OR, within a
function that is called as the page is loaded.  So, this should be okay

<script language="JavaScript">
  function myfunct()
  {
    document.write('Hello, world.');
  }

  myfunct();
</script>

Where as calling myfunct from

<input type="button" value="click me" onclick="myfunct(); return false;">

will have undesirable results.

HTH,

-joshua

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Lockwood
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: [thelist] document.write


does anyone know how to solve the problem of using document.write in
functions??
I have just done that and found that it opens a new page and only writes the
stuff inside the brackets after the document.write.... which isn't what I
want at all.

Is there any special way to stop this from happening or can you just simply
not do this in functions.

cheers

M@




From stressed_dweeb at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 17 16:19:57 2001
From: stressed_dweeb at hotmail.com (Matthew Lockwood)
Date: Sun Jun 17 16:19:57 2001
Subject: [thelist] document.write
Message-ID: <F1022Mb1s7nlT2NqFJ300018999@hotmail.com>

damn... so there is no way to use document.write with a repeating function 
that is called onLoad in the <body> tag??


>From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at alphashop.net>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: RE: [thelist] document.write
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 13:59:02 -0700
>
>document.write() will overwrite the document if the document is already 
>done
>rendering.  So, it should be used not within a function, OR, within a
>function that is called as the page is loaded.  So, this should be okay
>
><script language="JavaScript">
>   function myfunct()
>   {
>     document.write('Hello, world.');
>   }
>
>   myfunct();
></script>
>
>Where as calling myfunct from
>
><input type="button" value="click me" onclick="myfunct(); return false;">
>
>will have undesirable results.
>
>HTH,
>
>-joshua
>
>-----Original Message-----
>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Lockwood
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 1:42 PM
>Subject: [thelist] document.write
>
>
>does anyone know how to solve the problem of using document.write in
>functions??
>I have just done that and found that it opens a new page and only writes 
>the
>stuff inside the brackets after the document.write.... which isn't what I
>want at all.
>
>Is there any special way to stop this from happening or can you just simply
>not do this in functions.
>
>cheers
>
>M@
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From neuro at well.com  Sun Jun 17 16:30:42 2001
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Sun Jun 17 16:30:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK
References: <200106141410.f5EEA9q24054@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <005f01c0f736$854f1120$0100007f@local.zensoft.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keni Barwick" <keni at barwick.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 3:06 PM
Subject: [thelist] ADSL in the UK


> Any one have any knowledge of ADSL in this country (UK)
>
> I need
> 512 DownLoad
> 256 Upload
> No Nat
> With Real IP's?
>
> I have the best price so far of
>
> ?110 per month from BT

Griffin Internet do the 500 S service (no-NAT and 8 IP addresses included)
for 260-odd quid ex VAT for installation and then 80 quid a month ex VAT for
line rental - i don't have the URL to hand (offline atm) but go to
http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ and go to the ISP list, then look for Griffin.


--
 _ __   ___ _   _ _ __ ___ @well.com  William Anderson www.well.com/~neuro
| '_ \ / _ \ | | | '__/ _ \  "The thing I love most about deadlines is the
| | | |  __/ |_| | | | (_) |   wonderful WHOOSHing sound they make as they
|_| |_|\___|\__,_|_|  \___/        go past." - Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)




From pagehealer at pagehealer.com  Sun Jun 17 16:37:42 2001
From: pagehealer at pagehealer.com (PageHealer)
Date: Sun Jun 17 16:37:42 2001
Subject: [thelist] making div's 100% wide?
In-Reply-To: <0fc280203181161PCOW024M@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B7529A69.3764%pagehealer@pagehealer.com>

Martin,

I have rightmargin=0 in the body tag, though it isn't helping. Also using
CSS to position the background image. That's working fine.

I've uploaded the troublesome files at

http://www.pagehealer.com/redesign/index.html   and
http://www.pagehealer.com/redesign/sub.html

On the index page, you'll see that the gap occurs toward the bottom - all of
the content and the stuff below it is in a 100% div that isn't extending all
the way across. On the sub page, you can see the gap all the way down the
right-hand side.

The gap seems to be much larger on the Mac than on the PC, for whatever
reason.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - this is driving me nuts!

Emily

on 6/17/01 2:01 PM, Martin at martin at members.evolt.org wrote:

 
> Emily
> 
> What's your body tag doing in terms of margins (in the tag and
> in CSS)?
> 
> Martin
> 




From andyosborne at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 17 18:30:54 2001
From: andyosborne at hotmail.com (Andy Osborne)
Date: Sun Jun 17 18:30:54 2001
Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF
Message-ID: <F82JynCR34XtFT0D7GH00001f2c@hotmail.com>

Hello

Make q query to the database to obain number of records present eg. select 
count(tablename.column_name) as Number_Rows

This will give you number of rows in selected column. Assign this to a 
session variable. (create a CFAPPLICATION template)

Then query database again, extracting records required. Assign all the 
records retrieved to a 2-D Session.array. This array containing the database 
query can be passed between templates

eg recordset = NewArray(2)
<cfoutput query="Getdata">
recordset[i][1]="#first name#"
recordset[i][2]="#last name#"
recordset[i][3]="#imageref#"
<cfset i=i+1>
</cfoutput>
and so on..

Achieve this with CFOUTPUT, and an incrementing variable.

You can then decide how many records you want to display, and access the 
array accordingly. eg. 16 records - display in groups of 5 - 
numtodisplay=numrecords/5 (gives you 3 groups) & remainder = 
Int(numrecords/5) for any remaining images.

Hope this helps

regards
Andy
>From: "Aaron Cole" <awcole72 at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:54:28 -0700
>
>I'm trying to recreate a feature I've seen on a lot of sites where you get 
>a
>dynamic record count.  So, if there are 5 pictures in a set and you're
>viewing the third one, it will say 3 of 5.
>
>I thought I had it figured out by using #CurrentRow# of #RecordCount#.
>
>Alas, no.
>
>When I output this I get all five possibilities at once.  Arrgh!! So close.
>
>Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
>TIA,
>Aaron
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From andyosborne at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 17 19:42:04 2001
From: andyosborne at hotmail.com (Andy Osborne)
Date: Sun Jun 17 19:42:04 2001
Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF AMENDED RESPONSE!!!!
Message-ID: <F36133tYwlib4g3Sv0Y000000ca@hotmail.com>

Hello

Make a query to the database to obain number of records present eg. select
count(tablename.column_name) as Number_Rows

This will give you number of rows in selected column. Assign this to a
session variable. (create a CFAPPLICATION template)

Then query database again, extracting records required. Assign all the
records retrieved to a 2-D Session.array. This array containing the database
query can be passed between templates

eg recordset = NewArray(2)
<cfoutput query="Getdata">
recordset[i][1]="#first name#"
recordset[i][2]="#last name#"
recordset[i][3]="#imageref#"
<cfset i=i+1>
</cfoutput>
and so on..

Achieve this with CFOUTPUT, and an incrementing variable.

You can then decide how many records you want to display, and access the
array accordingly. eg. 16 records - display in groups of 5 -
numtodisplay=INT(numrecords/5) (gives you 3 groups) & remainder =
MOD(numrecords/5) for any remaining images.

Hope this helps

regards
Andy



>From: "Aaron Cole" <awcole72 at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] CurrentRow in CF
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:54:28 -0700
>
>I'm trying to recreate a feature I've seen on a lot of sites where you get 
>a
>dynamic record count.  So, if there are 5 pictures in a set and you're
>viewing the third one, it will say 3 of 5.
>
>I thought I had it figured out by using #CurrentRow# of #RecordCount#.
>
>Alas, no.
>
>When I output this I get all five possibilities at once.  Arrgh!! So close.
>
>Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
>TIA,
>Aaron
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From doshea at surfree.com  Sun Jun 17 22:47:41 2001
From: doshea at surfree.com (Daniel S. O'Shea)
Date: Sun Jun 17 22:47:41 2001
Subject: [thelist] Column Links for Sorting
Message-ID: <GDEAKBKHDDGGEPBKAFINAEKOCDAA.doshea@surfree.com>

I have an access database I want to create a hyperlink on each column
heading, so that when any column heading is clicked on, the query will
return the same table but sorted by the column clicked.

sql = "select qb.name, " -
             "qb.passatt, " _
             "qb.passyards, " -
             "qb.passint " -
      "FROM qb " _;"

If I just script- "Sort by qb.name " _;" then the table shows sorted by
player name.
How can I write a query so that hyperlinks exist on each column heading to
sort the table by a particular column??

Thanks





From john_meyer at geocities.com  Sun Jun 17 22:48:51 2001
From: john_meyer at geocities.com (John Meyer)
Date: Sun Jun 17 22:48:51 2001
Subject: [thelist] Column Links for Sorting
In-Reply-To: <GDEAKBKHDDGGEPBKAFINAEKOCDAA.doshea@surfree.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010617214455.009f0350@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Check out 4guysfromrolla.com

They have some code that does exactly what you want.

At 11:48 PM 6/17/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>I have an access database I want to create a hyperlink on each column
>heading, so that when any column heading is clicked on, the query will
>return the same table but sorted by the column clicked.
>
>sql = "select qb.name, " -
>              "qb.passatt, " _
>              "qb.passyards, " -
>              "qb.passint " -
>       "FROM qb " _;"
>
>If I just script- "Sort by qb.name " _;" then the table shows sorted by
>player name.
>How can I write a query so that hyperlinks exist on each column heading to
>sort the table by a particular column??
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of TheList go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

John Meyer
john_meyer at geocities.com
Programmer


If we didn't have Microsoft, we'd have to blame ourselves for all of our 
programs crashing