This thread has reminded me of a very useful tool that I will give as a tip... <tip subject="pixel gifs" author="Kevin Stevens"> http://genoma.unsam.edu.ar/~fernan/web_safe.html is a link to download 1 pixel gifs of all the web safe colours plus a transparent pixel. The latter is incredibly useful as an aid to positioning things on your web page. </tip> Kevin Stevens kjs at ratking.co.uk