SPAM-LOW: Re: [thelist] Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Common Practice vs Standards

Ken Schaefer Ken at
Tue Jan 25 21:03:01 CST 2005

: From: thelist-bounces at [mailto:thelist-
: bounces at] On Behalf Of dwain
: Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [thelist] Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Common Practice vs
: Standards
: >: Getting Microsoft to adjust to standards, as opposed to the other way
: >: around, would be like pulling teeth. Painful at best.
: >
: >Microsoft already implements (and helps develop) large numbers of
: standards.
: >So I assume we're talking about HTML-related standards here? I think
: you'll
: >see that things will change in the next major releases of their products.
: >There's been a few hints from the IE team (and plenty of feedback to
: them)
: >that they should have better standards support, and on the other side
: >generation), tools like VS.NET and ASP.NET itself will start generating
: >compliant (X)HTML and CSS (so their browser would need to work with
: that).
: >
: >Cheers
: >Ken
: >
: >
: yes, i'm speaking of html standards.  i ran through the html
: validator and the page didn't validate -- they didn't even have a
: doctype on the page.  how can that be?

They didn't include one.

: how long has the w3c been in existence?  before ie6?  5.5?  5.0?  how
: long has the w3c and others been after ms to develop a web browser that
: would render pages like other browsers that held a standard?  how long
: has ms ignored the plea?

Microsoft is a member of the w3 consortium, and has contributed to the
development of a number of standards. Part of the problem is that some of the
standards weren't finalised (or didn't exist) when some of the core IE
components (like Trident) where being developed. Another part of the problem
is that Microsoft hasn't updated things as the standards have come out.

However, the idea that Microsoft can just update Trident every time a new
standard comes out (of which there appear to be 1-2 every year) is naïve. Way
too much 3rd party development exists based on certain assumptions about how
IE works. And every time Microsoft breaks something, there's a huge uproar
(from users and from developers), so there's a fine balancing act involved.

That said, I personally think it's come time for Microsoft to update IE, and
whilst I'm not plugged into the IE team directly, from my sources I
understand progress is being made in this area.  

: i hope that in longhorn that the next
: generation of web browser will be more web standards compliant; and it
: would be nice if they would retrofit earlier browsers from 5.0+ to w3c
: standards.

That will probably never happen. Too much will probably "break". End users
are not the ones that make Microsoft money - corporations are, and they would
not be happy if the apps that they have spent millions developing suddenly
started developing strange quirks. Check Dave Masey's blog post about this

: i'm not very passionate about too many things, but i'm tired of hacking
: my pages.  i'm all but to the point that if my pages don't render in ie,
: i'll do what ie sites do and put a notice that "this site is not
: internet explorer compatible, you will need to download and install
: mozilla or firefox to properly view this site."  yeah, i know, that's
: crazy, but it might start something and move software developers for web
: products to take notice and make the necessary changes; maybe not in my
: life time, but maybe.

Well, you're lucky to be operating in an environment where you can do this
type of thing. Most development (dollar wise, not people wise) doesn't.


More information about the thelist mailing list