sbeam schrieb: [...] > If the framework you are using is just making your life harder, then don't use > it. There is a lot of hype behind "MVC" - which is really a vague concept > that has a lot of implementations of varying quality - so don't get too > caught up. For you, it might seem like it is solving problems that you don't [...] That's probably the point. To get started, forget about any MVC framework and instead consider what MVC as an architecture / pattern in software development is. The idea in itself is completely sane in virtually every system in which you are likely to have content presented in different ways / user interfaces / whatever. If you have a good clue what MVC is all about, you will find it in appropriate frameworks, no matter the language or environment (take Java/Struts as an example). But more than that you will eventually figure out that, in order to make use of MVC, you don't at all need a "real" framework but get rather far just getting your application sorted in a "clean" way, keep presentation, code and data separated, use a templating engine rather than mixing up PHP and XHTML and all these things. From this point of view, <rant>I don't think MVC is hype at all - it's something that just, for gods sake, should not be needed to mention anymore in software development in 2008, considering that "refactoring" / remodeling / rebuilding of applications in not just a few cases seems way more difficult than just throwing it all away and starting all over anew. Unfortunately, it is not...</rant> Just my $0.02 on that, of course. K.