[Theforum] Re: (was) let's kill it, kill, kill, kill!

John Handelaar genghis at members.evolt.org
Thu Apr 18 09:41:34 CDT 2002

> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforum-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:theforum-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Martin
> Sent: 18 April 2002 15:10
> To: theforum at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [Theforum] Re: (was) let's kill it, kill, kill, kill!
> Or, to put it another way, evolt (hell, *any* organisation) can only work
> without acrimony if decisions are made legitimately and then put
> into action.

Agreed 100%.

However...  this cannot be fixed without abandoning reference
to a previously-existing 'elite'.  You and I have discussed this
on and off for over a year.

[For the benefit of those who didn't listen to the ever-more-
drunken conversations in question, it was about how Admin comes
over to lots of people as very cliquey indeeeeed, even though
no-one means it to.]

Bluntly, the existence of something called 'Admin' isn't nearly
as damaging, IMHO, as the closed group it represents. The
avalanche of personal crap which keeps spilling out from all
sides all over this list, thesite, #evolt is of interest only
to (some of) that (very small) minority and turns otherwise-
willing people with time, skills and bucketloads of experience
right off evolt.org altogether.  I very much doubt that it'll
stop anytime soon, unfortunately, Admin group or no Admin group.

In my opinion, 'legitimately-made' decisions regarding evolt.org
should involve as many community members as possible.  They are
*not*.  And that goes for NFP registrations just as much as it
does for list admin duties.  Most of us have never been consulted
on either.

And (sorry, Martin, this is a direct criticism of you,
but a very gentle one) I'll take Michele's attempt at blue-skying
at the moment over the Access page on the wiki, though for only
one reason.  If it were blank or nearly blank I'd agree we
should be doing it there for transparency.  But it's not.  It
defines roles and dishes ____all____ of them to people who
are or were members of admin at lists.evolt.org before this year

The message it gives out (I *know* it's not intentional)
is that this whole Access row has crap-all to do with getting
evolt's jobs done, crap-all to do with inviting new people to
get involved, and absolutely everything to do with that
'avalanche of crap'  I mentioned above.

Suggestion:  let's do this on the wiki _but_ restructure the
page to reflect what Michele was trying to do, namely to
get everyone to tell us and each other what they'd like to
contribute.  It's an entirely valuable exercise even in
isolation from the access issues.

And aren't we overdue for London Beervolt 4?  Or is it
5? :-)

John Handelaar

T +44 20 7209 4117       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com

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