[thechat] [ugh]

Syed Zeeshan Haider szh at softhome.net
Tue Jul 9 13:55:00 CDT 2002

From: "John Handelaar" <john at userfrenzy.com>
To: <thechat at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: July 09, 2002, Tuesday 2:33 AM
Subject: RE: [thechat] [ugh]

> Yeah, what he said.
> Zeeshan tells us that
> a) the death sentence represents a deterrent *and*
> b) that the death sentence failed to deter,
> Which is it?
> Incidentally,
> c) we also know from a myriad other sources that the
>    death sentence failed to deter people from committing
>    cartloads of other similar offences, and

You don not live in Pakistan. If you had lived here then you'd observe
that what is the effect of death penalty on crimes. Although, many
so-called Human Rights Organizations (national and international) are
working against death sentence in Pakistan but I think it won't effect
our laws.
Earlier there was no death sentence for dacoits and robberers but now
there is. Observe yourself the decrease in rate of robberies and
dacoities in Pakistan.
The criminals of high degree crimes (rape, murder) commit the crimes in
two situations:
1.    Blind rage and passion for revenge
2.    When they think that no law will be applied on them
Unfortunately, most crimes in Pakistan are the consequences above two
situations and we are working to exterminate such thoughts and
situations. The above points can be discussed in a very painstakingly
lengthy detail but I think a wise man like you can think what details
can be written (I am not making fun, John. I am dead serious.)

> d) the reintroduction of the death penalty in the US
>    had no discernable effect whatsoever on the murder rate,
>    and

John, I think you live in USA, where death sentence sometimes used to
add something new to the blank record books. Some time ago, a man was
to death and it was the first death punishment in (I think more than) 30
years in USA. However, many "Human Rights" organizations did protest
against his sentence. Think, the murderer was charged with more than a
deaths of HUMANS. Just ask those "Human Rights" organizations, what
about the rights of those hundreds of humans who were killed by a single
man. Where a death penalty is applied after decades there such penalties
cannot deter.
Some days ago I was reading CNN site. There I came to know that about 10
(can't remember exactly) states in USA have terminated death sentence
and many others are on
their way. Many attorneys in USA are working against death penalty.
Please don't take offence. It's all what I observe.

> e) that countries which abolish the death sentence also
>    experience no obvious difference in the rate of the
>    crimes in question.

You do not live in such countries, you just read and listen news. The
news media tell you what they want to. In Iran, Saudi Arabia etc. you
will not find any narcotics smugglers because the penalty of narcotics
smuggling is death in these countries. Introduction of death penalty for
narcotics smuggling in Pakistan has resulted in a firm control and hold
on such criminals.

> The death penalty has nothing to do with a deterrent effect
> (there isn't one) and everything to do with eye-for-an-eye
> retribution.  Even as punishment it doesn't stand up, because
> dead people, as a rule, are unable to experience suffering.

It is an observation that jail sufferings turn the criminals into more
dangerous one. If an innocent is caught in jail he will become a
criminal due to these sufferings. When a jailed innocent is released, he
doesn't feel any fear of jail any more; this fearlessness tends him to
do crimes.

> But I'm not really gunning for the death penalty right now
> (might do later) - just refusing to allow that 'deterrent'
> bollocks to go by unchallenged.
> ------------------------------------------
> John Handelaar
> T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
> F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
> ------------------------------------------

Syed Zeeshan Haider.

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