[thechat] Jan 18 peace march

[aardvark]

> From: Erika Meyer <emeyer at lclark.edu>
> >
> >then educate him otherwise... if you think he'll be shielded from
> >branding and marketing messages for any length of time, you're
> >kidding yourself... it's your job as a parent to frame it properly
> >and to guide his decisions...
>
> <sarcasm>yes!!! Everyone loves free parenting advice!M</sarcasm>

you can dismiss the comment with that statement, but do you agree
that as a parent it's your responsibility to help educate your child?
your very actions show that you think it is, but bringing your
daughter up with views alternate to those trotted out in school...

> this mirrors exactly my current battle with the minivan moms.  I am
> Martin, Adrian is the minivan mom.  (You'd never have guessed, would
> you?)

well, you won't catch me in a minivan, unless of course the mom is
really hot... but that's a whole different thread...

> Adrian, some of us think schools should be one of the places where
> children are taught BY EXAMPLE which is the strongest way that
> children learn.

i would agree, *if* i thought it was possible... sadly, there's no
way to eliminate teacher bias on subjects like politics, morality,
and many other facets of life...

> Basically, I guess it comes down to we have to tell our kids we are
> living on the fringes of society because we don't think McDonalds is
> appropriate nutrition and we don't think Coca Cola is a healthy drink.
>  We really aren't so much on the fringes, it's just we haven't been as
> heavily brainwashed as the mainstream.

if you perceive it as the fringes, so be it... i was taught about
nutrition by someone other than the schools, and i'm glad i was,
too... i never ordered pizza for lunch at school with a side of
fries, i made my own lunches as a kid and brought them to school,
because i was taught to know better...

> McDonalds doesn't need to come into school to pry into a child's
> brain.  It was the first "brand" Brook recognized, and she attended
> vegetarian preschools.  We started having cross-branding discussions
> when she was four and saw the disney stuff on McDonalds windows.

well, the conversation was Coke, and i still think if they want to
pay a school district to place coke-only products (which, if
administered correctly, will includes juices and things other than
soft drinks) then it's worth considering... the stuff they already
sell isn't any different... but brands exist everywhere else... think
about brands of clothes -- those are marketed by the kids themselves,
and their parents buy into it (literally)... there is no protection
from branding, and hiding is futile...education is better...

> Kids want to be like their peers, they worship their teachers as well
> as their parents.  I think the teachers and schools have a
> responsibility to model appropriate and thoughtful behavior.  This
> does not include lesson in how to become a bovine herd animal (and eat
> them too!).  McDonalds-appreciation isn't the only lesson in bovine
> behavior, it's just one of the more disgusting ones.

since when do kids worship teachers? most kids i knew, including me,
didn't even get along with their teachers... peer pressure, yes,
that's real, but that's also part of growing up... however, until the
schools and teachers actually *do* model appropriate and thoughtful
behavior, i don't believe it's as sacrosanct as you do... teachers
are still people with their own agendas and opinions, and you can't
purge those...

> Those of you who think we're trying to keep our kids "pure" are
> missing it.  (If I was like that she'd be at monessori or waldorf
> school or homeschooled).  We just want to keep the schools a bit more
> of a sanctuary than the street, than the TV way of thinking.

again, schools have already faltered on that path... my entire
education can be characterized by under-educated left-wing teachers
with little grasp of reality outside the classroom... should i really
listen to my teacher talk about conservation when she drives a 76
buick electra to work? not only do schools misrepresent facts (well-
documented cases abound), but their teachers frame them within their
own context as well...

> http://www.cokewatch.org/

er, ok?

> I keep getting this image from Sunday school of Jesus throwing the
> marketers out of the temple... or something like that.  School should
> be a safe and healthy place, not a place where we sell-out our
> children.  I know it happens but we can still fight it.  In some
> places, parents have fought to the point that kids are actually being
> fed healthy foods, locally grown stuff, even organic... it's rare but
> the NY times recently had an article about these efforts.

or better yet, take the money, and educate your own children... have
them make their own lunches like i did as a kid if you have an issue
with it... school is *not* a safe and healthy place, it's simply the
first exposure children have to long-term challenge of life...

of course, there's always some well-meaning but way-out-of-touch
group who wants to remove things like dodgeball because throwing a
foam ball at another child is too traumatic... regardless of what
happens every morning in the school hallways...

if i'm going to pander to anything, i'd rather pander to reality...

> Should we be selling the kids porn at school?  That might go over well
> with middle school and high school.   I mean at some point there are
> boundaries.  The fighting point is where do we set them and upon what
> grounds.

clearly there are boundaries... porn is probably a bad idea, but
sadly safe sex education has been branded as porn by the religious
right over and over again and has been curtailed in many schools...

so, who's porn are we talking about? what you perceive as porn, or
what others perceive as porn? because you might be unwittingly
blocking out safe sex education with such a blanket statement...


--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151159/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1904151159