I share this because it may have some relevance for your approach to donation efforts. I have given time, effort, and money to evolt before because evolt is greatly responsible for the level of education and high web development standards that I have. My data modeling and SQL comprehension would be nothing without Rudy, Ken, and others. My CSS and semantic markup knowledge would be nothing without Adrian, Isaac, and others. When the ajax kool-aid was in its initial brewing stages, my ideas wouldn't have been as strong if I hadn't bounced them off of Sam and others. The evolt community had created significant value for me personally and I felt compelled to give back in a number of ways. If we are not receiving donations, perhaps the question is not whether we can improve our solicitation techniques, but whether we can improve the community to where it is bringing value to individuals again. If so, I think the donations, both financial and otherwise, will come. If not, I will have to side with our members in their implication that the money is best appropriated elsewhere. Thanks, -- Matt Warden Cincinnati, OH, USA http://mattwarden.com This email proudly and graciously contributes to entropy.