On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, John Corry wrote: > I'm trying to develop a more clear-cut process to determine what my clients > need, and then show them how we got there so I can justify the (usually > greater) expense of producing *that* site. The bottom line in a case like yours always has been, and always will be, the business case to support your idea. Now, the advice given at various destinations ("Web ReDesign" among them) gives you a solid framework. You might also get some ideas by looking at hesketh.com, which publishes its process for all to see. In your case, I suspect that the pivot of the proposal will be new objectives - what does the client want to accomplish with a redesign, that they're not getting already? Everything else will follow from this... even if the objectives aren't changing. If you put a magnifying glass on this stage of the process, it rapidly becomes apparent that you'll need to examine how well the existing objectves have been met, and how to improve results. If nothing changes, you still get your chance to show your art direction chops... which probably isn't as good as paying off your credit cards, but something to strive for nonetheless. 'Luck, -- Ben Henick Web Author At-Large Managing Editor http://www.io.com/persist1/ http://www.digital-web.com/ persist1 at io.com bmh at digital-web.com -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?" "I think so, Brain, but... (snort) no, no, it's too stupid." "We will disguise ourselves as a cow." "Oh!" (giggles) "That was it exactly!"